Perspective on Rebuilding

[Goose]

TAMU

I can assure that Wojo was not doomed by me on Day One or even now. He got me excited early on with the recruitment of Matt Carlino and getting into the HE sweepstakes. While he might not have been my first choice, Shaka was, nobody excited me in the pool of finalists. You were high on Wojo prior to hire and couple of other people I respect were OK with the hire. I was very cautiously optimistic all the way until late last season.

Again, trust me on the fact I never was anti Wojo. I like him being from Duke because it is a blue blood program that hoists banners after seasons.

[jesmu84]

All this talk of "juice" and "excitement" in the program, talk of firing Wojo, talk of expectations, etc, etc...

It all makes me think there are, apparently, lots of people who don't objectively see where Marquette - as a small, private school in Milwaukee - lies on the college basketball pyramid. Whether it is where MU stands in the coaching hierarchy (not a destination, but a stepping-stone), attractiveness to recruits, etc. It appears there are people out there who see MU as much, much more than is the reality of the situation.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

All this talk of "juice" and "excitement" in the program, talk of firing Wojo, talk of expectations, etc, etc...

It all makes me think there are, apparently, lots of people who don't objectively see where Marquette - as a small, private school in Milwaukee - lies on the college basketball pyramid. Whether it is where MU stands in the coaching hierarchy (not a destination, but a stepping-stone), attractiveness to recruits, etc. It appears there are people out there who see MU as much, much more than is the reality of the situation.

Jes - I've been told by MU that our objective is to have a Nationally recognized bball program that can compete for national championships.  If that isn't true thats fine but I doubt the money continues to support it at the levels it currently receives.

[jesmu84]

Jes - I've been told by MU that our objective is to have a Nationally recognized bball program that can compete for national championships.  If that isn't true thats fine but I doubt the money continues to support it at the levels it currently receives.

I have no problem with that. Of course "compete for national championships" could be a pretty broad definition. I'd like to know more specifically how they define that phrase.

My point was combine everything I said in my last post with the situation we were left in when Buzz left. The rebuild, on top of all the other difficulties with being MU in the bball landscape. It's not objectively easy. And realistically expecting sweet 16s 1-2 years (or even packed non-con games) after Buzz is crazy talk.

Nearly every metric of the program under Wojo is either trending up or staying stagnant. That's a conclusion of overall positive.

[Marcus92]

Why all the concern about Marquette's level of investment in men's basketball? The program isn't just an expense — it's a huge revenue generator and marketing tool for the university, both nationally and around the world.

The Wall Street Journal estimates the overall value of the program at $60 million — 35th in the country and highest in the Big East. That's why MU spends money on things like basketball coaches and facilities. Because it pays off.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-is-your-college-basketball-team-worth-1459459516

[brewcity77]

The last figure I remember seeing in terms of investment in the program is that our spending was #2 behind only Duke. I'm not sure if that's still accurate as those numbers were probably from 5 years ago, but I have to say if we're second in spending and 35th in value, that's definitely a disappointing return on investment.

I do think what Wojo is doing is more sustainable and more likely to create long-term success than his predecessor, but on the whole, the program should do better with the money MU puts into it.

[Newsdreams]

MU is highly recognized as a BB school outiside US, exposure is probably bigger than most of you think and with Wade and Butler together should trend even higher.

[jesmu84]

The last figure I remember seeing in terms of investment in the program is that our spending was #2 behind only Duke. I'm not sure if that's still accurate as those numbers were probably from 5 years ago, but I have to say if we're second in spending and 35th in value, that's definitely a disappointing return on investment.

I do think what Wojo is doing is more sustainable and more likely to create long-term success than his predecessor, but on the whole, the program should do better with the money MU puts into it.

I don't necessarily disagree with the ROI argument. I just think it's a tough situation. With a non-state school which is not a coaching destination and not in a "cool" geographic location, I believe a school like MU has to "overspend" to even come close to the blue bloods or even the tier below the blue bloods.

Here's the question though, for the ROI argument: What can MU do with that same bball $$$ amount to improve the ROI? Where can the money be allocated within its bball-sphere to get a better return?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have no problem with that. Of course "compete for national championships" could be a pretty broad definition. I'd like to know more specifically how they define that phrase.

My point was combine everything I said in my last post with the situation we were left in when Buzz left. The rebuild, on top of all the other difficulties with being MU in the bball landscape. It's not objectively easy. And realistically expecting sweet 16s 1-2 years (or even packed non-con games) after Buzz is crazy talk.

Nearly every metric of the program under Wojo is either trending up or staying stagnant. That's a conclusion of overall positive.

Got it - I know the objective is squishy as well. 

I guess I don't agree how bad it was for the next coach following Buzz.  I saw what it was like for Crean to rebuild from Deane - that was a real low in enthusiasm and support of the program.  It feels like we are trending there now and it worries me as the Bball program is one of MUs greatest assets.

Maybe it was as bad as you say...hey I don't have any choice but to wait it out so it's nothing more than water cooler talk anyway. 

[4everwarriors]

Shoulda fookin' hired Smart, hey?

[Dr. Blackheart]

nm

[Galway Eagle]

I don't necessarily disagree with the ROI argument. I just think it's a tough situation. With a non-state school which is not a coaching destination and not in a "cool" geographic location, I believe a school like MU has to "overspend" to even come close to the blue bloods or even the tier below the blue bloods.

Here's the question though, for the ROI argument: What can MU do with that same bball $$$ amount to improve the ROI? Where can the money be allocated within its bball-sphere to get a better return?

Is philly or Cincinnati a "cool" geographic location? You can argue Philly is cooler than Milwaukee but far from cool and Cincinnati is basically St. Louis but two small urban non state schools are getting a decent ROI on their programs

[Goose]

TAMU
You are quite confident in your comments regarding who was and who was not a candidate when Wojo was hired. I do not question that you have some inside scoop but I think you are misguided on some of your comments. Who is/was a candidate is not as clear as you might think it is.

[Eldon]

Is philly or Cincinnati a "cool" geographic location? You can argue Philly is cooler than Milwaukee but far from cool and Cincinnati is basically St. Louis but two small urban non state schools are getting a decent ROI on their programs

Mack is an X alum and Jay Wright was born and raised in Philly.  He's as Philly as they come.

[jesmu84]

Is philly or Cincinnati a "cool" geographic location? You can argue Philly is cooler than Milwaukee but far from cool and Cincinnati is basically St. Louis but two small urban non state schools are getting a decent ROI on their programs

I assume you're referring to Nova and Xavier (you could throw Butler in that group too). What do they have in common that MU hasn't in the last couple decades? Consistency in culture and coaching. As has been pointed out, both Xavier and Butler have developed coaching in-house and Jay Wright has been around for a while.

[Eldon]

TAMU
You are quite confident in your comments regarding who was and who was not a candidate when Wojo was hired. I do not question that you have some inside scoop but I think you are misguided on some of your comments. Who is/was a candidate is not as clear as you might think it is.

FWIW, I specifically remember Howland and Lovell had a chat on the phone, reminiscing about the early 2000 Pitt teams, etc.

[Eldon]

I don't necessarily disagree with the ROI argument. I just think it's a tough situation. With a non-state school which is not a coaching destination and not in a "cool" geographic location, I believe a school like MU has to "overspend" to even come close to the blue bloods or even the tier below the blue bloods.

Here's the question though, for the ROI argument: What can MU do with that same bball $$$ amount to improve the ROI? Where can the money be allocated within its bball-sphere to get a better return?

A veteran as an assistant coach maybe?  Specifically, one that knows Xs and Os and will not be a yes-man (and that Wojo will respect/listen to).

[Goose]

4ever

Shaka left us at the alter and still pisses me off. You, Keefe and I were dancing that night three years ago when we landed him. That was a sad night for any real MU fan.

[79Warrior]

MU is highly recognized as a BB school outiside US, exposure is probably bigger than most of you think and with Wade and Butler together should trend even higher.

Disagree. Outside of Wisconsin, MU is a non factor to many folks right now. We were a good program.

[Eldon]

Goose, with all due respect, I don't believe for a second that you are "beginning to believe he is the wrong guy for the job." From what I can see, you and many corners of Marquette fandom have thought that since the day Wojo was hired.

I don't know what it was. Whether it was us believing we were getting Shaka...Or people spreading misinformation about Tony Bennett and Ben Howland being candidates (they weren't)...Or people just hating Duke and anyone from there...Many just decided that they hated the hire and nothing short of immediate success was going to change that.

I would like to hear a solution. Not a complaint. There's no use in saying we shouldn't have hired Wojo because we did. We are here now. And Wojo has done nothing but improve the program since he got here. Every year he's put a better product on the floor. Maybe it's not going as quickly as we would like but it's heading oh the right direction. Is the smart move really to pull the plug and start over? What would that do too the program?

Who should have we hired instead of Wojo? Can you honestly say that anyone else would have given the program more juice? Howland? He plays the most boring style of basketball next to the badgers, is struggling at Mississippi State, and has skeletons in the closet to boot. Cuonzo? Maybe. But he was gifted a great roster and grabbed two burger boys and has been average. He definitely doesn't get rabb to come to Marquette and I doubt he'd get brown here either. He'd probably be where we are now. Oh, he also had a sexual harassment scandal in his first year.

The program was doomed to "run low on juice" long before Wojo was hired. It started when Buzz and Larry got into their who's got the bigger penis contest and it was sealed when Buzz left for VT. Wojo is not responsible for lack of juice, he is however responsible for getting the juice back. I don't know how much better we could have reasonably expected him to do by this point.

Maybe I am in that corner.  One of those dudes.  I was severely disappointed with the Wojo hire because he was an unproven entity.  I had thought that MU had built up enough cachet that we didn't need to go to the bench to get a coach.  I wanted to avoid the growing pains.  We are currently feeling those pains.  So maybe that initial disappointment lingers and I view any mistake that Wojo makes--perceived or actual--as legitimizing my initial doubt.

But, to be fair, there are also people in the other corner who will see anything Wojo does--anything at all--as a positive and the best step of all steps that were possible.  I mean, according to Brew we were "this close" to the NCAAs last year, despite missing the NIT and despite never once being on Lunardi's Next Four Out.  If you think we just barely missed the tournament last year, then of course you will see Wojo as making tremendous progress.  "This guy took us from Derrick-as-leader to just barely missing the tournament!!  Lack of progress?!?  All I see is progress!"

[Goose]

79Warrior

You are correct on national perception of the program. However, it is still our greatest national marketing tool and that cannot be ignored.

[Marcus92]

I don't necessarily disagree with the ROI argument. I just think it's a tough situation. With a non-state school which is not a coaching destination and not in a "cool" geographic location, I believe a school like MU has to "overspend" to even come close to the blue bloods or even the tier below the blue bloods.

Here's the question though, for the ROI argument: What can MU do with that same bball $$$ amount to improve the ROI? Where can the money be allocated within its bball-sphere to get a better return?

The financial stats below for Big East basketball programs come from the Department of Education. Since private institutions don't have to disclose full financial information, the data and comparisons aren't perfect. But I think ROI should be about the last concern about the future of Marquette basketball.

Marquette
$18.6 MM revenue | $12.3 MM expenses | $6.3 MM profit

Villanova
$12.9 MM revenue | $10.7 MM expenses | $2.2 MM profit

Xavier
$12.5 MM revenue | $8.2 MM expenses | $4.3 MM profit

http://college-sports.pointafter.com/compare/11556-13115-15847/Xavier-University-Basketball-vs-Villanova-University-Basketball-vs-Marquette-University-Basketball

[Newsdreams]

Disagree. Outside of Wisconsin, MU is a non factor to many folks right now. We were a good program.

I live outside the mainland US and travel the caribbean and south america think I could know

[Dr. Blackheart]

Five year rebuild as I have said before, which should have started out of the gate. Killer on the NCAA credits.  Wojo's supporters donated record moolah last weekend to the cause, however.

Goose, I hear you on the long time basketball alumni support.  Too bad the effort at home for the 1977 annversary fell flat with that uninspired defensive effort.  Has to be tough for the letterman.

[Goose]

Dr.

Correct on a ton of money raised last weekend and that is great news. Was extremely happy to hear that news.