If the Big 12 expansion raids the AAC to free UConn, would you...

[The Lens]

The only legendary coach that can be mentioned in these places is Stew Morrill.

I agree with this analysis.

[warriorchick]

And have the best program in Woman's bball history.

I think there are a few Tennessee fans who might argue with you about that.

[MU82]

+1

Out biggest risk as a conference is that the p5 take Bball only members.  The big conferences can end this deal we have setup if they want.   If you are worried about stability - worry about that not UCONN.

True dat. What happens if the ACC says, "OK Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's, we'll take your basketball programs and give you twice the money you get from the Big East"?

Not sure if it's possible or not, but it sure would end our fun little league!

[Coleman]

I think there are a few Tennessee fans who might argue with you about that.

There might be, but they'd be wrong

[Marcus92]

True dat. What happens if the ACC says, "OK Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's, we'll take your basketball programs and give you twice the money you get from the Big East"?

Not sure if it's possible or not, but it sure would end our fun little league!

If there's anything good about the breakup of the Big East, it's that it demonstrated the risk of building a conference with schools who have vastly different priorities. I'm not sure any conference is eager to repeat that experiment.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is no comparison between football destroying the old Big East and adding UConn to the current BEast. The old Big East was dominated by football first institutions. Adding UConn would add exactly 1 football first institution. They couldn't break up the Big East. At worst they would leave themselves and leave the Big East exactly how it is now. Assuming UConn even has football at that point.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If there's anything good about the breakup of the Big East, it's that it demonstrated the risk of building a conference with schools who have vastly different priorities. I'm not sure any conference is eager to repeat that experiment.

It shows the dangers of building a conference where half the membership has one priority and the other half has a different priority. Not even the Big East as it is now has institutions with the exact same priorities.

[Herman Cain]

True dat. What happens if the ACC says, "OK Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's, we'll take your basketball programs and give you twice the money you get from the Big East"?

Not sure if it's possible or not, but it sure would end our fun little league!

That scenario you describe would take money out of other ACC schools pockets. At the end of the day all of this is about money.

Our fun little league is here for the long term.

If U Conn came hat in hand and did a deal on our terms I am sure we would take them  (for example they must stay in the length for 25 years minimum and huge exit fee to be paid in cash above and beyond units left behind)

U Conns open lust for the ACC was the final straw that broke the Big East as previously configured.   They got what they deserved.

[auburnmarquette]

Why not? The Sun Belt does it. No reason you can't have a 20-game conference season. It would reduce the number of non-con games by two, but two games with UConn for the entire league would be more valuable than any non-con games that could be scheduled.

Agreed - I had admitted that in one of my comments that after reading some initial input that should have been one of the options I offered. Certainly an 11-team league works fine - as one other person pointed out the Big Ten did it for years.

I'm actually old enough to remember when they were going to 11 and the Milwaukee Journal invited people to submit possible names for the new 11-member conference. My two favorite were, "Ten Big Schools Pretty Close to Notre Dame," and "The Big Ten and Northwestern."

[GGGG]

True dat. What happens if the ACC says, "OK Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's, we'll take your basketball programs and give you twice the money you get from the Big East"?

Not sure if it's possible or not, but it sure would end our fun little league!

Why would the ACC do this? 

[VegasWarrior77]

Poll: Big 12 coaches favor BYU, Houston in expansion

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/poll-big-12-coaches-favor-byu-houston-in-expansion-230910500.html?nhp=1

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Poll: Big 12 coaches favor BYU, Houston in expansion

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/poll-big-12-coaches-favor-byu-houston-in-expansion-230910500.html?nhp=1

Houston doesn't make sense to me. Why take another school in Texas when you already have 4? There are way more Texas, Baylor, TCU, and Tech fans in Houston than there are Cougar fans.

BYU is solid though.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I think there are a few Tennessee fans who might argue with you about that.

There might be, but they'd be wrong

I was going to type the same thing as Coleman.

As the all time great Pat was, she never won 4 championships in a row, while UConn all time vs. Tennessee is 13-9 overall and 5-2 in NCAA games including 3-0 in National Championship games.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Houston doesn't make sense to me. Why take another school in Texas when you already have 4? There are way more Texas, Baylor, TCU, and Tech fans in Houston than there are Cougar fans.

BYU is solid though.

I saw some twitter reports from "insiders" of course whether true or not, saying U of Texas is interested in the Northeast (UConn specifically) and Florida.  FWIW
The same feeds said they don't want another Texas school to compete with recruiting-wise.

[mu03eng]

There is no comparison between football destroying the old Big East and adding UConn to the current BEast. The old Big East was dominated by football first institutions. Adding UConn would add exactly 1 football first institution. They couldn't break up the Big East. At worst they would leave themselves and leave the Big East exactly how it is now. Assuming UConn even has football at that point.

Part of my reluctance in allowing UConn into the conference is simply the effect of opening the door to expansion generally. Right now the 10 members are pretty unified...even if we add UConn they are still relatively unified. However knowing executives and rich people like I do, they will see one good thing and assume they can do a bunch of good things the same way when really that one good thing was the only one out there.

UConn makes sense for a lot of reasons (regional rivalries, blue blood, previous Big East member, etc) but what happens the next time a team seems interested in the Big East. Let's say Syracuse leaves the ACC because the ACC gets raided, do we take them? Or lets say Cincinnati becomes available because the AAC sucks and the Big12 won't take them? You open the door to football schools, they will come in and eventually drive change that may not be for the good of the basketball schools.

Yes, this overblown concerns....but I've seen the way corporate organizations behave...they ruin things all the time 

[mu03eng]

I saw some twitter reports from "insiders" of course whether true or not, saying U of Texas is interested in the Northeast (UConn specifically) and Florida.  FWIW
The same feeds said they don't want another Texas school to compete with recruiting-wise.

I don't think Texas will have a lot of say at the expansion table this time as they threw their weight around last time with some bad results and have since lost a lot of their luster in both football and basketball.

Just can't see UConn going to the Big12 in all sports, that will be very costly.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I saw this post on The Boneyard.  More Big 12 criteria and school groupings and timeline.
?????????????????

****************************************************************
This was posted by a supposedly insider, MSMoose, on the Cincy 247 board:

The Day After!
After a rather lengthy dinner and post dinner chat, I have a few updates for you from last evening.
Areas where the Big 12 institutions will focus when reviewing expansion candidates will be;
Strength of the institutions athletic department. More precisely, financials, leadership and staff, institution and private support, achievements, facilities, strategic plan, marketing, athletic academic support and success, cost of attendance.
Fan base size. More precisely the logistical makeup of the fan base (it’s reach), it’s cultural makeup, it’s willingness to support, it’s financial support, it’s national makeup. Finally, the alumni makeup, where are they, do they travel, demographics, etc.
Media market. More precisely an institutions local market, regional market, and national market.
Institutional reputation. More precisely, accomplishments, national and international recognition, staff makeup, funding, endowment, private support, research reputation, etc.
Academic strength. More precisely the measurements of an institutions academics per its independent divisions. For instance, an institutions medical school is ranked high with much success, but their engineering school is not.
The Big 12 has essentially created (3) lists of candidates for expansion;
The first list are those institutions who meet most or all the Big 12 membership criteria, need time to grow (2-5 years), and become P5 institutions. You can think of these institutions as those who have sufficient athletics funding, Tier 1 research institutions, academic success, athletic culture, and membership to the Big 12 would raise their status sooner than later.
The second list are those institutions who have athletic culture, however would not be considered as full member. These institutions could be institutions with football culture, but lack full athletics culture, or fail to meet specific Big 12 criteria in the form of Research and or Academics.
The third list are institutions that meet some of the Big 12 membership criteria, need time to grow (5-8 years), and become P5 institutions. These are institutions with high growth potential, membership to the Big 12 will allow these institutions in 5-8 years, to be P5 type institutions and still grow.
Institutions like Cincinnati and UCONN make the first list. While institutions like Boise State or UCF make the second list. Institutions like Memphis or Temple make the third list.
These lists are important in terms of negotiations, because if the Big 12 decides 4 is the right number for expansion two levels of candidates may be asked to join. So for a institution on the first list, the institution may propose a lesser time frame for the institutions transition to full membership. Where a institution on the second list, may have a transition period, however at a reduced full membership amount. Finally, a institution on the third list may be forced to offer concessions to the Big 12 for membership. Keep in mind the ball is the institutions hands when it comes to enticing the Big 12 for membership, however the Big 12 also must keep the big picture in mind.
Western based expansion does not generate short term or long term benefits, unless one considers partial membership such as football only. The money is not there when you talk to the network folks, which as we know is hurting the PAC 12 now, and long term. That said, membership to Boise State, and or BYU could be enticing, and profitable by brand for the Big 12.
Long term Eastward expansion is the desire of most Big 12 members. Institutions like Cincinnati and UCONN are great institutions, which with Big 12 membership will become quality long term P5 members. Institutions like UCF and Memphis have great potential, although they lack Big 12 Academic qualities.
Institutions unlike Cincinnati will have to present proposals showing not only their Athletic plans, but their Institutional plans in terms of Academics, Research, Endowment, etc.
Right now, I believe list 1 candidates Cincinnati and UCONN are 11 and 12 after discussions last night. I know I said Memphis as 12 prior, but last night changed my mind considerably. Then after 11 and 12, you have list 3 institutions like UCF and Memphis versus list 2 institutions BYU and Boise State. Ultimately, if the Big 12 President’s are not confident with list 3 candidates proposals, they can fall back on list 2 candidates who help them now.
I will post more in a few days, I have meetings in New York to attend to.
Go Bearcats!

All institutions who desire candidacy will need to make a formal proposal to the Big 12. Interviews with the Big 12 (Expansion Committee, I will call it) will follow. The Big 12 BOT will then discuss candidates via teleconference and also have access to contact candidates on their own. The Big 12 BOT may then decide to negotiate with specific institutions, or they may offer proposals to specific institutions. A lot depends on the institution proposals, and which direction the Big BOT chooses to proceed with.

The Big 12 is looking for a 60-90 day period to complete this work. At the same time, expansion will also affect how the Big 12 creates divisions, scheduling, etc. so a lot of factors are in play. Scheduling will also have a negative affect on BYU, in trying to terminate numerous scheduling agreements in such a short period of time. BYU has so many issues to overcome, my colleagues and I don't see any possibility of them succeeding.

Gotta run, but just want to pass along something I heard today. I can't corroborate this, however I will try my best during my travels to do so.

I am told Big 12 Consultants presented an alternative to the LHN, that would prove quite lucrative to the Big 12, assuming expansion to key markets and 14 members is agreed upon. Whether the network is linear or not, I do not know.

Stay tuned.

[GoldenWarrior11]

More Boneyard UConn fans feedback about a potential UConn/Big East reunion:

"If UConn athletics go back to the Big East I will have written my last check to the UConn Athletic Development Fund. I will not support a athletic department that decided to get back into bed with the small catholic schools like PC, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul and St Johns that decided to take their ball and leave after leeching off of schools like UConn for years...and instilling their will in some bad decisions that eventually hurt the BE."

"They wouldn't. That makes literally no sense.  Like eating a banana peel and throwing the banana in the garbage."

"Yup...they (Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, ND, Rutgers) were the lucky ones that got a life ring...those other schools that you rave about (C7) and bow down to royal screwed over the BE and eventually caused its demise..all while leeching boat loads of $$ off of those schools you just mentioned and UConn."

UConn (administrators, athletic departments, fans and alumni) have zero interest in coming back to the Big East.  They would view such a move as a throw-in-the-towel action against a potential move towards a P5 membership, something they refuse to give up.

Let them enjoy the American playing Tulane, East Carolina, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis and Temple.  There's some big time football being played right there.

[Coleman]

More Boneyard UConn fans feedback about a potential UConn/Big East reunion:

"If UConn athletics go back to the Big East I will have written my last check to the UConn Athletic Development Fund. I will not support a athletic department that decided to get back into bed with the small catholic schools like PC, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul and St Johns that decided to take their ball and leave after leeching off of schools like UConn for years...and instilling their will in some bad decisions that eventually hurt the BE."

"They wouldn't. That makes literally no sense.  Like eating a banana peel and throwing the banana in the garbage."

"Yup...they (Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, ND, Rutgers) were the lucky ones that got a life ring...those other schools that you rave about (C7) and bow down to royal screwed over the BE and eventually caused its demise..all while leeching boat loads of $$ off of those schools you just mentioned and UConn."

UConn (administrators, athletic departments, fans and alumni) have zero interest in coming back to the Big East.  They would view such a move as a throw-in-the-towel action against a potential move towards a P5 membership, something they refuse to give up.

Let them enjoy the American playing Tulane, East Carolina, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis and Temple.  There's some big time football being played right there.

I understand their perspective. I disagree with it, but I see where they are coming from.

UCONN really got screwed. I think their anger is misplaced. It shouldn't be at the old Big East (which was originally a basketball conference, and no one forced UCONN to go to FBS football), or schools like MU, Georgetown, or Nova. Their anger should be directed at the P5 conferences who raided the old Big East.

Sometimes blind rage doesn't always find the correct target. But I understand the rage.

[Herman Cain]

Part of my reluctance in allowing UConn into the conference is simply the effect of opening the door to expansion generally. Right now the 10 members are pretty unified...even if we add UConn they are still relatively unified. However knowing executives and rich people like I do, they will see one good thing and assume they can do a bunch of good things the same way when really that one good thing was the only one out there.

UConn makes sense for a lot of reasons (regional rivalries, blue blood, previous Big East member, etc) but what happens the next time a team seems interested in the Big East. Let's say Syracuse leaves the ACC because the ACC gets raided, do we take them? Or lets say Cincinnati becomes available because the AAC sucks and the Big12 won't take them? You open the door to football schools, they will come in and eventually drive change that may not be for the good of the basketball schools.

Yes, this overblown concerns....but I've seen the way corporate organizations behave...they ruin things all the time 

I agree with this analysis.

[GooooMarquette]

I understand their perspective. I disagree with it, but I see where they are coming from.

UCONN really got screwed. I think their anger is misplaced. It shouldn't be at the old Big East (which was originally a basketball conference, and no one forced UCONN to go to FBS football), or schools like MU, Georgetown, or Nova. Their anger should be directed at the P5 conferences who raided the old Big East.

Sometimes blind rage doesn't always find the correct target. But I understand the rage.

Bingo.

The move of the "C7" schools was a response to the breakup of the old BE, not the cause of it.

[MU82]

Why would the ACC do this?

It probably wouldn't.

It was purely speculation on my part ... the kind I sometimes make fun of here on Scoop.

So, um, never mind!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

UConn fans can try to make arguments about why the B12 would take them but they are kidding themselves. The B12 is a football conference. Their first, second, and third priorities are adding strong football programs. It doesn't matter that UConn matches in other categories. With such a weak football program, the B12 won't have interest. BYU and Cincy are the two. If they add 4, then it's a little more muddled and maybe there's hope for UConn. But Colorado State, Boise State, Houston, Memphis, and UCF all have pretty strong arguments.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

UConn fans can try to make arguments about why the B12 would take them but they are kidding themselves. The B12 is a football conference. Their first, second, and third priorities are adding strong football programs. It doesn't matter that UConn matches in other categories. With such a weak football program, the B12 won't have interest. BYU and Cincy are the two. If they add 4, then it's a little more muddled and maybe there's hope for UConn. But Colorado State, Boise State, Houston, Memphis, and UCF all have pretty strong arguments.

I believe Jay Bilas summed up your response well.

"Big 12 gathers to talk about being at the forefront of education. No, wait...they're talking about money. My bad."

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

UConn fans can try to make arguments about why the B12 would take them but they are kidding themselves. The B12 is a football conference. Their first, second, and third priorities are adding strong football programs. It doesn't matter that UConn matches in other categories. With such a weak football program, the B12 won't have interest. BYU and Cincy are the two. If they add 4, then it's a little more muddled and maybe there's hope for UConn. But Colorado State, Boise State, Houston, Memphis, and UCF all have pretty strong arguments.

TAMU - I still think you are underestimating UConn football compared to the other candidates and despite this being about football its' really more about TV and $$$s. 

So what if those rabid UConn basketball fans pay extra for a TV channel or Sports App to watch online and they get football programming as a "throw-in" with it.  There's more of them and they're still paying extra $ that goes to the league.