If the Big 12 expansion raids the AAC to free UConn, would you...

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It probably wouldn't.

It was purely speculation on my part ... the kind I sometimes make fun of here on Scoop.

So, um, never mind!

I think I was responsible for starting this so I will take the blame.  My over-arching point was that if you want to worry about improbable things that will destroy the Big East  - worry about one that would actually end it.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I think one of the survey answers should have been "UConn & ABD".

[LAZER]

UConn fans can try to make arguments about why the B12 would take them but they are kidding themselves. The B12 is a football conference. Their first, second, and third priorities are adding strong football programs. It doesn't matter that UConn matches in other categories. With such a weak football program, the B12 won't have interest. BYU and Cincy are the two. If they add 4, then it's a little more muddled and maybe there's hope for UConn. But Colorado State, Boise State, Houston, Memphis, and UCF all have pretty strong arguments.

They're not kidding themselves.  The Big 12's entire expansion strategy is based on generating the most TV revenue. Adding 4 teams will generate the most revenue, and a 4 team package including UCONN probably has the most potential.

Now, it will be interesting to see how much pull the football powers have at the Big 12 schools.  They want Houston & BYU, but I'm not sure how much money that generates.

[Benny B]

Bingo.

The move of the "C7" schools was a response to the breakup of the old BE, not the cause of it.

Well, if we're going to be technical, we can argue all day about causes, but it was the C7's departure which ultimately broke up the old Big East, i.e. there was still a conference left after Pitt, Cuse, WVU, etc. departed, but a) it's not like UCONN is in a worse place today than they would have been had the C7 stuck around and b) the C7 was about to get screwed if it didn't do anything... as soon as the new football members would have been "confirmed," the C7 would have lost all voting power and forever been at the mercy of the likes of Tulane, Houston, Tulsa, etc.  UCONN sided with the football schools, so their basketball program got left behind.

So while it was the C7 who broke up the old Big East, UCONN made their own bed that they're sleeping in today.

[brewcity77]

Bingo.

The move of the "C7" schools was a response to the breakup of the old BE, not the cause of it.

Putting it on us, who left after West Virginia, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, and Notre Dame had all secured their greener pastures moves, is silly. We were left with essentially three football schools in UConn, Cincy, and South Florida. That was it. And we should've stayed for Houston, SMU (trainwreck at the time), Temple, Tulane, and the rest of the C-USA castoffs?

Everyone knows that was a basketball league. The football success they had all left when Miami and Virginia Tech headed to the ACC. Every move the football schools were making was to dilute the basketball product. The only way to maintain an elite basketball league was to cut the tie. Look at what's left over there. It's a mostly garbage basketball league with 2-3 good programs. Pretty much Cincy, UConn, and a collection of mediore at best (and god-awful at worst) basketball schools. Why should we have been responsible for propping them up, especially when it meant bringing 4-5 teams to our gyms in January and February that were worse than the buy games we played in November and December?

[🏀]

I think one of the survey answers should have been "UConn & ABD".

YES!

ABD!

[Mr. Nielsen]

No reason you can't have a 20-game conference season. It would reduce the number of non-con games by two, but two games with UConn for the entire league would be more valuable than any non-con games that could be scheduled.

 
ACC commish Swofford announces league moving to 20 league men's basketball games in 2019-20.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Imagine, we could be in a conference (again) today with East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, SMU and Houston.  Marquette, under Larry Williams, and the Catholic-7 leaving and keeping the Big East brand and MSG will go down as one of the most important decisions in our respective programs' histories.  If we had gotten stuck with that group, we would have confirmed ourselves to collegiate athletics purgatory.   

[brewcity77]

ACC commish Swofford announces league moving to 20 league men's basketball games in 2019-20.

No reason the Big East couldn't do the same, and highly unlikely a program like UConn would have a negative net impact on the league.

Let's be honest...if non-con games were really that great and we really wanted as many of those "marbles" as we could get, everyone would be playing 10-14 game conference schedules. The reality is that you make your money in the conference season. That's the product you are selling to networks and those are the games where you generally know the strength of all your opponents. And the ACC wouldn't go to a 20-game schedule if they thought it was going to have a negative affect on the value of their basketball product.

[wadesworld]

No reason the Big East couldn't do the same, and highly unlikely a program like UConn would have a negative net impact on the league.

Let's be honest...if non-con games were really that great and we really wanted as many of those "marbles" as we could get, everyone would be playing 10-14 game conference schedules. The reality is that you make your money in the conference season. That's the product you are selling to networks and those are the games where you generally know the strength of all your opponents. And the ACC wouldn't go to a 20-game schedule if they thought it was going to have a negative affect on the value of their basketball product.

There's a happy medium.  20 conference games is too many.  Just because it brings in the most money doesn't mean it's the best thing for your program.  Sure, for the people that get that money in their pockets it's awesome.  Big East programs aren't on the verge of dropping athletic programs to D3 because there is no money in their athletic department.  There's no need to sell out just to get some extra money.

Selling the tale that we're a "power conference" in basketball and the best "basketball only" conference out there and then inviting a public university with a football program that will jump ship the second 1 of 5 other conferences comes calling doesn't exactly fit that narrative.

[brewcity77]

There's a happy medium.  20 conference games is too many.  Just because it brings in the most money doesn't mean it's the best thing for your program.  Sure, for the people that get that money in their pockets it's awesome.

Selling the tale that we're a "power conference" in basketball and a basketball only conference and then inviting a public university with a football program that will jump at the first chance 1 of 5 other conferences comes calling doesn't exactly fit that narrative.

I haven't seen a compelling reason yet why we wouldn't take UConn. The schedule? No, because others are going to that same schedule. The football? No, because the basketball schools would still have the power and they would have neither the power nor inclination to upset our applecart. Because they might leave? Who cares? Then we go back to being exactly what we are now, which we're happy with.

In the pantheon of basketball in the past 20 years, UConn is absolutely, no questions asked a top-5 program. They've made the Elite Eight 8 times, the Final Four 5 times, and cut down the nets 4 times. They've won 14 tournament and conference titles in 10 different seasons. They are a program that legitimately moves the dial. You could put up an argument for someone like Cincy, Memphis, Temple, or any number of other schools. But none of them remotely approach the value that UConn has as a basketball program. Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina. That's the ilk we're talking about. You could honestly argue UConn's national titles puts them at the head of that list. And that's without mentioning a women's program that has won 10 of the last 17 titles.

If Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas dropped football and wanted entrance, would anyone say no? That's the level of performance UConn's men's program has put up.

[brewcity77]

Here's the thing for me...this is win-win. If we add UConn, we get a truly elite basketball program that raises our profile and further establishes us as one of the best basketball conferences in the country. If we don't get UConn, we already have a great basketball-driven league. There is no losing in this situation. Either we stay the best basketball-only conference (and top-4 of all conferences at worst) or we become even stronger. Where's the downside?

This is so much better than 2010.

[wadesworld]

I haven't seen a compelling reason yet why we wouldn't take UConn. The schedule? No, because others are going to that same schedule. The football? No, because the basketball schools would still have the power and they would have neither the power nor inclination to upset our applecart. Because they might leave? Who cares? Then we go back to being exactly what we are now, which we're happy with.

In the pantheon of basketball in the past 20 years, UConn is absolutely, no questions asked a top-5 program. They've made the Elite Eight 8 times, the Final Four 5 times, and cut down the nets 4 times. They've won 14 tournament and conference titles in 10 different seasons. They are a program that legitimately moves the dial. You could put up an argument for someone like Cincy, Memphis, Temple, or any number of other schools. But none of them remotely approach the value that UConn has as a basketball program. Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina. That's the ilk we're talking about. You could honestly argue UConn's national titles puts them at the head of that list. And that's without mentioning a women's program that has won 10 of the last 17 titles.

If Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas dropped football and wanted entrance, would anyone say no? That's the level of performance UConn's men's program has put up.

There's the difference.

UCONN isn't dropping football.  We don't need to be some stepping stone conference.  We can leave that to the AAC.  UCONN would be around 5 years tops.  There's no need for it.

If UCONN wants to drop football (they don't)...welcome back to the BE boys!  As it is, good luck in the AAC until a power conference needs to expand to 20 teams and you get your invite there.

[GGGG]

TAMU - I still think you are underestimating UConn football compared to the other candidates and despite this being about football its' really more about TV and $$$s. 

So what if those rabid UConn basketball fans pay extra for a TV channel or Sports App to watch online and they get football programming as a "throw-in" with it.  There's more of them and they're still paying extra $ that goes to the league.

UConn football is a non-entity on the national scene.

[brewcity77]

There's the difference.

UCONN isn't dropping football.  We don't need to be some stepping stone conference.  We can leave that to the AAC.  UCONN would be around 5 years tops.  There's no need for it.

If UCONN wants to drop football (they don't)...welcome back to the BE boys!  As it is, good luck in the AAC until a power conference needs to expand to 20 teams and you get your invite there.

Dropped football, moved football, regardless. If Duke or Kentucky were available for basketball, everyone in the Big East would bend over backwards to welcome them in. And they would be absolutely brain dead stupid to not do so.

[Herman Cain]

I haven't seen a compelling reason yet why we wouldn't take UConn. The schedule? No, because others are going to that same schedule. The football? No, because the basketball schools would still have the power and they would have neither the power nor inclination to upset our applecart. Because they might leave? Who cares? Then we go back to being exactly what we are now, which we're happy with.

In the pantheon of basketball in the past 20 years, UConn is absolutely, no questions asked a top-5 program. They've made the Elite Eight 8 times, the Final Four 5 times, and cut down the nets 4 times. They've won 14 tournament and conference titles in 10 different seasons. They are a program that legitimately moves the dial. You could put up an argument for someone like Cincy, Memphis, Temple, or any number of other schools. But none of them remotely approach the value that UConn has as a basketball program. Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina. That's the ilk we're talking about. You could honestly argue UConn's national titles puts them at the head of that list. And that's without mentioning a women's program that has won 10 of the last 17 titles.

If Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas dropped football and wanted entrance, would anyone say no? That's the level of performance UConn's men's program has put up.

There is value in staying focused. We have a very good league that will only get better. U Conn takes away from that focus with their constant desire to upgrade. Who wants a bunch of headlines about the collapse of the Big East again.  We just finally got beyond that. Villanova won the National Championship and we should be taking a victory lap.    Ultimately U Conn is going to be in a Power 5 conference. The only reason they are not  currently in the ACC is they got out maneuvered by political connections by Louisville.

U Conn basketball was a solid team in the Yankee conference prior to the advent of the Big East, and really did nothing special until Jim Calhoun got involved. Then they took off in the 90s and ultimately became close , if not,  a blue blood . All that is to say if the Big East stay focused there is nothing from preventing one or two of our current schools from taking off and becoming a Blue Blood or at the top tier of the high majors.

If MU wants to play U Conn then lets get them on the non conference schedule for several years. That would be the best for us.

[mu03eng]

UConn football is a non-entity on the national scene.

Doesn't matter, it's raking in millions more for the school than basketball and therefore will always be the number one consideration.

[brewcity77]

There is value in staying focused. We have a very good league that will only get better. U Conn takes away from that focus with their constant desire to upgrade. Who wants a bunch of headlines about the collapse of the Big East again.  We just finally got beyond that. Villanova won the National Championship and we should be taking a victory lap.    Ultimately U Conn is going to be in a Power 5 conference. The only reason they are not  currently in the ACC is they got out maneuvered by political connections by Louisville.

Adding an elite basketball program doesn't take away from being focused on being an elite basketball conference. Quite the opposite. Honestly, I don't think UConn will be getting full P5 membership any time soon. The ACC and Big 10 kicked the tires and said no thanks. Now it sounds like the Big 12 might be interested but only for football. Will that change soon? Don't know, but I do know that they are still an elite basketball program that would only make our league on the whole better.

U Conn basketball was a solid team in the Yankee conference prior to the advent of the Big East, and really did nothing special until Jim Calhoun got involved. Then they took off in the 90s and ultimately became close , if not,  a blue blood . All that is to say if the Big East stay focused there is nothing from preventing one or two of our current schools from taking off and becoming a Blue Blood or at the top tier of the high majors.

UConn wouldn't prevent that, more likely they would enhance that. Give Villanova (or Georgetown or Marquette or whomever) the chance to play UConn twice a year and that only makes their resume and credentials better. I don't care what UConn was or wasn't 30 years ago. I know what they are now and have seen Kevin Ollie win a title and recruit pretty well in the past few years. I'm not saying anyone else is worth it. But they are.

If MU wants to play U Conn then lets get them on the non conference schedule for several years. That would be the best for us.

Doubt that would happen. They already are playing the old Big East foes they want. This is effectively adding two high-major home-and-home series for everyone in the league. Better for us, better for the Big East, better for UConn (assuming they go football only elsewhere).

And again, if they leave, who cares? We go back to being the great conference we are having reaped the financial rewards of having a blue blood for X number of years. Win-win.

[Herman Cain]

Adding an elite basketball program doesn't take away from being focused on being an elite basketball conference. Quite the opposite. Honestly, I don't think UConn will be getting full P5 membership any time soon. The ACC and Big 10 kicked the tires and said no thanks. Now it sounds like the Big 12 might be interested but only for football. Will that change soon? Don't know, but I do know that they are still an elite basketball program that would only make our league on the whole better.

UConn wouldn't prevent that, more likely they would enhance that. Give Villanova (or Georgetown or Marquette or whomever) the chance to play UConn twice a year and that only makes their resume and credentials better. I don't care what UConn was or wasn't 30 years ago. I know what they are now and have seen Kevin Ollie win a title and recruit pretty well in the past few years. I'm not saying anyone else is worth it. But they are.

Doubt that would happen. They already are playing the old Big East foes they want. This is effectively adding two high-major home-and-home series for everyone in the league. Better for us, better for the Big East, better for UConn (assuming they go football only elsewhere).

And again, if they leave, who cares? We go back to being the great conference we are having reaped the financial rewards of having a blue blood for X number of years. Win-win.

The Big East is a high major conference, we don't need to be seen as a stepping stone for someone else's ambitions. If UConn took permanently took their football down to the same level as Villanova then the conversation would be worth having. Until then let them flop in the breeze in the bed they made for themselves. 

[MU82]

I agree with pretty much everything brewski is saying.

Who knew we were both so damn smart?!?!?!

[wadesworld]

Adding any school with football will be short sighted.  It's why the old Big East is no longer.  If we want the new Big East to be no longer, then sure.  Start adding football schools that will be gone within the next 5 years.  Forget that the league was created to prevent this exact thing just 2 years ago.  Let's bring back football schools!

Stay the course, respect the process, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Charley Farley]

Adding any school with football will be short sighted.  It's why the old Big East is no longer.  If we want the new Big East to be no longer, then sure.  Start adding football schools that will be gone within the next 5 years.  Forget that the league was created to prevent this exact thing just 2 years ago.  Let's bring back football schools!

Stay the course, respect the process, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" has to be one of the dumbest sayings of all time.  If people really followed that advice we'd still be driving Model Ts, talking on rotary dial phones, watching black and white tube televisions, and doing our work on IBM PCs running DOS.   Improvement means taking risks, trying new things, not being happy with the status quo.  Adding UConn (if they became available) is a slight risk but one well worth it based on the many improvements it would create for the Big East.

Even the risk of adding UConn is small.  There are two major problems with the old Big East that the new Big East needs to avoid.  First, making decisions (especially on new members) based on football.  Second is losing many of your best teams to other leagues because of football.   Right now the Big East could add UConn (and even another team) for all sports other than football and run little risk of facing these two problems.  Football will never drive conference decisions because it is not a football conference and never will be.   As for the risk of losing teams, you could eventually lose UConn, but you won't ever have a mass exodus.   The current 10 members are very stable and there is little reason to fear any will leave.   So what if you add UConn now and they leave in 3 years?   You've enjoyed 3 years of having a great addition to your league but the net result leaves you no different  than you are today.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Doesn't matter, it's raking in millions more for the school than basketball and therefore will always be the number one consideration.

I hear this all the time, but is it actually true for UConn? Football money mostly comes from TV contracts. As an AAC member, UConn is making 2.7 Million a year (I think that's right). Marquette is making 4 million a year without football. Where does UConn football make enough money to make up for the 1.3 million difference in TV contracts? Not to mention that Football comes with millions more in costs than basketball does. Also not to mention that UConn basketball adds to the prestige of the university, attractiveness to students, and donations by alumni more than football does.

I get that if they got into a P5 conference, football would make them millions. But until they get there....

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I hear this all the time, but is it actually true for UConn? Football money mostly comes from TV contracts. As an AAC member, UConn is making 2.7 Million a year (I think that's right). Marquette is making 4 million a year without football. Where does UConn football make enough money to make up for the 1.3 million difference in TV contracts? Not to mention that Football comes with millions more in costs than basketball does. Also not to mention that UConn basketball adds to the prestige of the university, attractiveness to students, and donations by alumni more than football does.

I get that if they got into a P5 conference, football would make them millions. But until they get there....

2.7 Million - I think that's just the TV money from the AAC?

The men's & women's team have separate contracts with SNY.  The women make $1.2mil from SNY and I'm sure the men's deal is even higher.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU - I still think you are underestimating UConn football compared to the other candidates and despite this being about football its' really more about TV and $$$s. 

So what if those rabid UConn basketball fans pay extra for a TV channel or Sports App to watch online and they get football programming as a "throw-in" with it.  There's more of them and they're still paying extra $ that goes to the league.

What extra TV Channel are these rabid UConn fans paying for? The Big 12 doesn't have a network and have publicly said that they have no plans to get one. Everyone already has ESPN and Fox. No one's paying for anything extra. In the Big 12's case it is about what programs will drive eyeballs to the screen and what programs will help them get a postseason bid. Of the candidates, BYU and Cincy win those categories in a landslide. UConn comes in last. Now UConn does come in first for basketball, but I don't think that's high on the B12's checklist.

Now if the B12 takes 4, I could see UConn cobbling enough together to be attractive enough to be the 4th team. But Houston, Memphis, UCF, Boise State, and Colorado State all have better football programs and bigger football fan bases. That is a lot for the Huskies to overcome.

Meanwhile, I'm just happy to be at the top of the food chain in the basketball world.