Henry Math

[Nukem2]

I will be glad when the season starts up so we can quit talking about a one-year player whose impact didn't take MU to the postseason.   He was a nice player and good luck to him in the future, but I will remember more Jake Thomas' impact on MU (Syracuse 4-point play) than I will those of Henry Ellenson and another lost season.

To be fair, the lack of a post-season was due to the play of all those other inexperienced teammates.  He was not the problem.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I will be glad when the season starts up so we can quit talking about a one-year player whose impact didn't take MU to the postseason.   He was a nice player and good luck to him in the future, but I will remember more Jake Thomas' impact on MU (Syracuse 4-point play) than I will those of Henry Ellenson and another lost season.

The funny thing is you're probably right. I had such a great view of it. It happened right in front of me.

[Badgerhater]

The funny thing is you're probably right. I had such a great view of it. It happened right in front of me.

I re-watch that shot on YouTube once in awhile.  MU needed that game and would go on to win a share of the BEAST that year and I consider that a feat only surpassed by making a Final Four.  Considering MU's past as an independent followed by membership in the crap conferences prior, winning that league against those teams was an elite accomplishment.

[GGGG]

I will be glad when the season starts up so we can quit talking about a one-year player whose impact didn't take MU to the postseason.   He was a nice player and good luck to him in the future, but I will remember more Jake Thomas' impact on MU (Syracuse 4-point play) than I will those of Henry Ellenson and another lost season.

You can quit talking about him any time you want.

[wadesworld]

I will be glad when the season starts up so we can quit talking about a one-year player whose impact didn't take MU to the postseason.   He was a nice player and good luck to him in the future, but I will remember more Jake Thomas' impact on MU (Syracuse 4-point play) than I will those of Henry Ellenson and another lost season.

Cool.

[MU82]

Peeps loves them that Jake Thomas 4 but ...

Syracuse was leading 29-19. Davante scored to pull us within 8. Jake then hit his 4-point play to make it 29-25. Junior scored to pull us within 2 and we took a 37-36 lead early in the second half. However, Syracuse used an 8-0 run to go up 44-37. We were still losing by seven, 53-46, with 7:48 to go before Davante and Mayo rallied us to victory. With Jake's butt firmly nailed to the bench, Mayo hit two huge 3s during the winning rally.

I think Buzz at one point called Jake's 4 the biggest shot of the season. Buzz said a lot of weird things that we now know had little basis in truth.

It was a cool shot -- and definitely an unexpected play given that Jake made 10 threes all season and shot 27.8% from behind the arc. But if results actually matter, it probably wasn't even the most important shot of that game.

Without Junior's 3, we lose to UConn. Period.

Without Vander's drive, we suffer the biggest upset of the NCAA tournament. Period.

Both were SIGNIFICANTLY bigger shots than Jake's 4. I mean, not even freakin' close.

For that matter, Vander's tie-breaking drive to beat St. John's and win us a share of the Big East title also was much, much bigger than Jake's 4.

Pretty easy to argue that the 3's that Jamil and Vander hit to set up Vander's winning play against Davidson also were far bigger than Jake's shot.

Jake's 4 provided a spark (although, as I said, not enough of a spark to keep Syracuse from increasing its lead again). And he was OK as a senior (even though he was part of the worst starting backcourt of the 2013-14 Big East season, IMHO).

But to suggest he had a bigger impact on Marquette basketball than Henry Ellenson ... that's a giggler.

Henry made more big plays in November than Jake did in two forgettable years. And our ability to sign a 1-and-done first-round draft pick says quite a bit about Wojo. Of course, Buzz feeling he had no better option at 2-guard in 2013-14 than Jake Thomas says a lot about Buzz, too.

Jeesh.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Bigger impact, no. More memorable? Absolutely.

[MU82]

Bigger impact, no. More memorable? Absolutely.

Not for me.

The main thing I remember about Jake Thomas was that Buzz couldn't field a better backcourt than Jake and Derrick.

Jake was not even a bit player on an excellent MU team and was an accidental starter on one of the most disappointing MU teams in years. Henry was a stud on an inexperienced team that hopefully will have played a role in the rejuvenation of Marquette basketball.

But if you want to remember Jake Thomas more fondly than Henry Ellenson, that's cool.

[GGGG]

Bigger impact, no. More memorable? Absolutely.

Jake Thomas was more memorable than Henry Ellenson??

What.  The.   F**k?

[brewcity77]

The reason I remember Jake's shot is because the BC absolutely erupted. Henry never got the joint jumping like that. Better player, more memorable overall, but for a single moment, that shot by Jake was pretty epic.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The reason I remember Jake's shot is because the BC absolutely erupted. Henry never got the joint jumping like that. Better player, more memorable overall, but for a single moment, that shot by Jake was pretty epic.

Yup, can't pull out a single moment from Henry off the top of my head. Before people accuse me of saying that he's not a good player, no that's not what I'm saying, just a pretty meh season with nothing that stands out.

[wadesworld]

The reason I remember Jake's shot is because the BC absolutely erupted. Henry never got the joint jumping like that. Better player, more memorable overall, but for a single moment, that shot by Jake was pretty epic.

Yup, can't pull out a single moment from Henry off the top of my head. Before people accuse me of saying that he's not a good player, no that's not what I'm saying, just a pretty meh season with nothing that stands out.

You boys must not have been at the BC for the Butler game this year.  No, it wasn't a single moment of a jumping BC environment because of Hank...it was 40 straight minutes of it.  One of the best performances I've seen in the BC...college or pro.

I literally would have never again thought of Jake Thomas had his name not been brought up here.  The only memory I have involving him is a few hours after the Davidson game, running into Homer out at the bars in Lexington and asking him what his call was.  He said he didn't even remember what it was but it was probably, "WHY IN THE WORLD ARE THEY STICKING A GUY ON JAKE THOMAS IN THE CORNER?!  HIS MAN SHOULD BE STANDING UNDER THE HOOP!  JAKE THOMAS?!"

[MU82]

The reason I remember Jake's shot is because the BC absolutely erupted. Henry never got the joint jumping like that. Better player, more memorable overall, but for a single moment, that shot by Jake was pretty epic.

It so epically affected the game that it took Syracuse several minutes to rebuild its lead -- a lead it held until Mayo could hit two 3-pointers down the stretch that helped MU rally to win the game.

You know, I have probably seen 500 games at Wrigley Field. When Kerry Wood homered in the third inning of Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS, the roar was the loudest I had ever heard at the old ballpark. EVER! One might even call it epic! But then the Cubs lost the game and the series, and a dejected Wood later admitted he had choked.

Marquette would have met the same fate against Syracuse despite Jake's 4-pointer had other, far better players not made other, far more important plays.

Given all the huge shots that other Warriors made that season, I am amused, bemused and bewildered by the love for that lucky, first-half shot by a sub-mediocre player. There actually are Scoopers (I'm not referring to you, brew) who think that was a bigger shot than Junior's 3 vs. UConn or Vander's winner vs. Davidson. Amazing.

brew, you and I agree on a lot, but I must admit I don't get this one.

I confess that I wasn't at the BC. I was watching with a huge MU contingent at a bar and we definitely were psyched when Jake's shot went in. Most of us were far more psyched when Mayo and Davante led us back from a 7-point deficit in the second half, though.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

It so epically affected the game that it took Syracuse several minutes to rebuild its lead -- a lead it held until Mayo could hit two 3-pointers down the stretch that helped MU rally to win the game.

You know, I have probably seen 500 games at Wrigley Field. When Kerry Wood homered in the third inning of Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS, the roar was the loudest I had ever heard at the old ballpark. EVER! One might even call it epic! But then the Cubs lost the game and the series, and a dejected Wood later admitted he had choked.

Marquette would have met the same fate against Syracuse despite Jake's 4-pointer had other, far better players not made other, far more important plays.

Given all the huge shots that other Warriors made that season, I am amused, bemused and bewildered by the love for that lucky, first-half shot by a sub-mediocre player. There actually are Scoopers (I'm not referring to you, brew) who think that was a bigger shot than Junior's 3 vs. UConn or Vander's winner vs. Davidson. Amazing.

brew, you and I agree on a lot, but I must admit I don't get this one.

I confess that I wasn't at the BC. I was watching with a huge MU contingent at a bar and we definitely were psyched when Jake's shot went in. Most of us were far more psyched when Mayo and Davante led us back from a 7-point deficit in the second half, though.

See its so funny how people remember games differently. I was in the student section and it literally happened 12 feet away from me. I remember the game being down early, Jake hitting the 4 point play to cut down the deficit and then just cruising through to the end due to the fact that Ox just didn't miss. I have no recollection of the Mayo 3s at all.

Kinda like how everybody here remembers the Novak 3 against Notre Dame with no time left on the clock when in reality, there was more than a second. I'm sure there's some psychological explanation for it.

[MU82]

See its so funny how people remember games differently. I was in the student section and it literally happened 12 feet away from me. I remember the game being down early, Jake hitting the 4 point play to cut down the deficit and then just cruising through to the end due to the fact that Ox just didn't miss. I have no recollection of the Mayo 3s at all.

Kinda like how everybody here remembers the Novak 3 against Notre Dame with no time left on the clock when in reality, there was more than a second. I'm sure there's some psychological explanation for it.

I'm sure you're right about the psychology of it all. Makes sense. I can assure you that Jake's first-half shot did provide a spark, but I also can assure you that we didn't cruise to victory after it.

As another Scooper said, I don't ever think of Jake Thomas until somebody here brings him up, often in a nearly reverential tone. To me, his only distinction was being part of a frighteningly bad (for a high-major) starting backcourt.

So it's funny to see somebody suggest he had more value, impact or anything else than Henry Ellenson did.

I mean, I got a hell of a lot more out of Ellenson's game-clinching, last-second block of future NBA stud Kris Dunn than I did out of Jake Thomas' 4-point fluke in the first half of a game decided an hour later.

I will allow that Jake had about as much impact as Wally did, though!

[jsglow]

Over the last 4-5 years shots that I personally witnessed that hold a particular place in my memory:

- Luke's foul and free throws against GT
- Jake's 4 pointer
- Junior's 3 pointer to tie UConn
- Jamil/Vander's 3s in the final Davidson minute
- Vander's winning Davidson drive

Now I might have missed many but those quickly stick out in my mind as 'special'.  I do agree that Jake's shot only served to ignite the spark allowing us to effectively compete the rest of the game.  Ox was unbelievable after that but the Jake shot allowed everyone in the BC to 'believe'.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Over the last 4-5 years shots that I personally witnessed that hold a particular place in my memory:

- Luke's foul and free throws against GT
- Jake's 4 pointer
- Junior's 3 pointer to tie UConn
- Jamil/Vander's 3s in the final Davidson minute
- Vander's winning Davidson drive

Now I might have missed many but those quickly stick out in my mind as 'special'.  I do agree that Jake's shot only served to ignite the spark allowing us to effectively compete the rest of the game.  Ox was unbelievable after that but the Jake shot allowed everyone in the BC to 'believe'.

Vander's Big East clincher at SJU

[bilsu]

Yup, can't pull out a single moment from Henry off the top of my head. Before people accuse me of saying that he's not a good player, no that's not what I'm saying, just a pretty meh season with nothing that stands out.

Ellenson not getting called for an offensive foul on his game winning drive against UW. It is hard to remember Ellenson's plays, because he was very good without being exciting. Thomas's 4 point play was exciting, because of who it was against, it was not expected and it did ignite the fans.

[GGGG]

I'm sure you're right about the psychology of it all. Makes sense. I can assure you that Jake's first-half shot did provide a spark, but I also can assure you that we didn't cruise to victory after it.

As another Scooper said, I don't ever think of Jake Thomas until somebody here brings him up, often in a nearly reverential tone. To me, his only distinction was being part of a frighteningly bad (for a high-major) starting backcourt.

So it's funny to see somebody suggest he had more value, impact or anything else than Henry Ellenson did.

I mean, I got a hell of a lot more out of Ellenson's game-clinching, last-second block of future NBA stud Kris Dunn than I did out of Jake Thomas' 4-point fluke in the first half of a game decided an hour later.

I will allow that Jake had about as much impact as Wally did, though!

Jake's 4 pointer was nice because it provided a spark in a game that seemed to be getting out of reach.

However it wasn't even the most important play of that game. 

[GGGG]

Yup, can't pull out a single moment from Henry off the top of my head. Before people accuse me of saying that he's not a good player, no that's not what I'm saying, just a pretty meh season with nothing that stands out.

To say that Henry had a "meh" season after being a freshman All-American and first team Big East member is an incredible statement.  Maybe nothing in particular stands out because he was good all year long.  Wheras Jake's 4 pointer was incredible because he wasn't very good.

I cannot wrap my head around this at all.

[brewcity77]

You boys must not have been at the BC for the Butler game this year.  No, it wasn't a single moment of a jumping BC environment because of Hank...it was 40 straight minutes of it.  One of the best performances I've seen in the BC...college or pro.

I confess that I wasn't at the BC.

I was at the BC for Butler, and MU82, that definitely proves the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying Jake's shot was bigger, I'm not saying Henry didn't have more major moments, but that shot, at that moment, that was probably the loudest I've heard the BC. It certainly hasn't come close to that volume since that shot. And at no point of Butler did it sound anything like it did when Jake came in and hit that shot. Not even close. How could it? There were probably 5,000 more people in the stands for the Syracuse game.

Again, I'm not talking about magnitude. I realize how the rest of the Syracuse game went, and I realize how significant Henry's block on Dunn was (but remember, that wasn't at the BC), but as far as the Bradley Center simply erupting to the point it sounded like the top was going to come off the damn place, Jake's shot was as epic a moment as I've ever heard live.

Henry was the better player and produced more in a single season than Jake did in his career, but Jake hitting that shot at that moment stands out from a crowd perspective as a far bigger eruption moment than any Henry produced for us. That's not a knock on Henry, it's just that the size of crowds he played in front of and the significance of the opponents he played against weren't on par with that.

[Benny B]

To say that Henry had a "meh" season after being a freshman All-American and first team Big East member is an incredible statement.  Maybe nothing in particular stands out because he was good all year long.  Wheras Jake's 4 pointer was incredible because he wasn't very good.

I cannot wrap my head around this at all.

Really?  Because you said it yourself.... he was good all season long.

Hint: There's nothing memorable about Steph Curry playing like Steph Curry.  But when Jeremy Lin plays like Steph Curry, Streisand's cover jumps a few dozen spots on the sales chart.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Over the last 4-5 years shots that I personally witnessed that hold a particular place in my memory:

- Luke's foul and free throws against GT
- Jake's 4 pointer
- Junior's 3 pointer to tie UConn
- Jamil/Vander's 3s in the final Davidson minute
- Vander's winning Davidson drive

Now I might have missed many but those quickly stick out in my mind as 'special'.  I do agree that Jake's shot only served to ignite the spark allowing us to effectively compete the rest of the game.  Ox was unbelievable after that but the Jake shot allowed everyone in the BC to 'believe'.

A good list. I would add Vanders drive against sju, Jimmy's baseline jumper against uconn, and carlinos game winner against Creighton. It's not a shot but I will remember Henry's game winning block against Providence for awhile.

I think Thomas shot is unfairly minimized by his performance as a starter the following year. If he had stayed a bench player that shot would be remembered as the time a random benchwarmer made a huge shot in a huge game. Now that shot reminds people how awful Jake was as a starter on a terrible Marquette team

[jsglow]

A good list. I would add Vanders drive against sju, Jimmy's baseline jumper against uconn, and carlinos game winner against Creighton. It's not a shot but I will remember Henry's game winning block against Providence for awhile.

I think Thomas shot is unfairly minimized by his performance as a starter the following year. If he had stayed a bench player that shot would be remembered as the time a random benchwarmer made a huge shot in a huge game. Now that shot reminds people how awful Jake was as a starter on a terrible Marquette team

I had limited my list to shots I personally witnessed.  We were on a plane when Vander hit that conference winner (and wasn't that in NYC?) and of course Henry's block on Dunn was out east.  I do remember the Carlino shot against Creighton.  Good one but an awfully tough season to stay mentally engaged.  I'm not specifically recalling the Jimmy baseline shot.

[Badgerhater]

I was at the BC for Butler, and MU82, that definitely proves the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying Jake's shot was bigger, I'm not saying Henry didn't have more major moments, but that shot, at that moment, that was probably the loudest I've heard the BC. It certainly hasn't come close to that volume since that shot. And at no point of Butler did it sound anything like it did when Jake came in and hit that shot. Not even close. How could it? There were probably 5,000 more people in the stands for the Syracuse game.

Again, I'm not talking about magnitude. I realize how the rest of the Syracuse game went, and I realize how significant Henry's block on Dunn was (but remember, that wasn't at the BC), but as far as the Bradley Center simply erupting to the point it sounded like the top was going to come off the damn place, Jake's shot was as epic a moment as I've ever heard live.

Henry was the better player and produced more in a single season than Jake did in his career, but Jake hitting that shot at that moment stands out from a crowd perspective as a far bigger eruption moment than any Henry produced for us. That's not a knock on Henry, it's just that the size of crowds he played in front of and the significance of the opponents he played against weren't on par with that.

Yep, HE is by far the better player.   But we as fans will remember that Syracuse game (Jake's shot was only a moment in that) for years because in the end it meant something significant.  I am sure that Butler game was enjoyable to attend but none of us will remember next year an 8-10 in-conference MU team beating Butler.