MU's embarassingly high acceptance rate

[Tugg Speedman]

Here is what the numbers are for Marquette

https://colleges.niche.com/marquette-university/statistics/

Acceptance rate 57%
Yield Rate, 15%

MU's acceptance rate is lower the UW and Depaul (meaning it is more selective) and not far behind Nova.

But MU's yield rate is far lower at 15%.

As noted above the average school is spending $2,100 per Freshman to recruit them into the school?  Is MU spending that much?  I'm going to guess they are not spending near $2,100 per freshman on recruiting accepted kids.  If they spent more on recruiting accepted kids (as opposed to begging alumni to pitch the school to them) they could get their yield rate up.  If they could get it to 20%, the acceptance rate can drop to 45%  Get the yield to 25% the acceptance rate can drop under 40%.

So MU wants to get up the US news ranking ...

For accepted kids  Do they (or they should)

* free basketball tickets
* personal letters
* personal calls
* swag = shirts, hats etc.
* social media reach-out.
* recent alumni take them to lunch
* special campus tours for them

Can anyone detail what MU's accepted students recruiting is?

[Disco Hippie]

Heisty, your numbers are super high.  The number of schools that get to a 50% acceptance rate is quite low and mostly includes the Ivys and some small colleges that essentially 'hand pick' their tiny incoming class.  As far as I know, only U of C in the Midwest achieves that threshold.   The vast majority have acceptance rates well below 25% as the average college bound kid applies to between 5 and 10 universities, a number that increases every year.  Frankly, Marquette's new targeted approach seems to be paying dividends.  So instead of getting 23,000 apps, handing out 11,000 acceptances and (last year) getting only 1825 Frosh, they have tailored their recruiting.  I don't have exact numbers yet but the results are positive.  We already know that this year's incoming class is currently approaching 2050.

Here's what I measure.  Top 10%, ACT, and class size.  If those remain strong, it's all good.

It's great that deposits are up!  My understanding from speaking with several well placed sources within the institution is that the new tailored recruiting approach resulted in significantly fewer applications to the tune of almost 10K.  That's a huge decrease, and while this new strategy is obviously paying dividends in terms of yield, our already high acceptance rate must have increased even more.   I agree with everyone that acceptance rate is a superficial metric that isn't reflective of a school's overall quality but fair or not, it's still very important and the most visible metric in a school'ss profile.  Of all the stats in USNWR, that's the one that's front and center.  All I'm saying is I hope the admin recognizes that this is a delicate balance and while enrollment stability is obviously very important, they also need to take into consideration the potentially negative impact that such a high acceptance rate will have on our ranking.  Given their refusal to publish it on the strategic planning dashbaord, some in the admin obviously recognize this.  It would be nice though it it weren't so high that they would be ashamed to publish it.

[warriorchick]

Here is what the numbers are for Marquette

https://colleges.niche.com/marquette-university/statistics/

Acceptance rate 57%
Yield Rate, 15%

MU's acceptance rate is lower the UW and Depaul (meaning it is more selective) and not far behind Nova.

But MU's yield rate is far lower at 15%.

As noted above the average school is spending $2,100 per Freshman to recruit them into the school?  Is MU spending that much?  I'm going to guess they are not spending near $2,100 per freshman on recruiting accepted kids.  If they spent more on recruiting accepted kids (as opposed to begging alumni to pitch the school to them) they could get their yield rate up.  If they could get it to 20%, the acceptance rate can drop to 45%  Get the yield to 25% the acceptance rate can drop under 40%.

So MU wants to get up the US news ranking ...

For accepted kids  Do they (or they should)

* free basketball tickets
* personal letters
* personal calls
* swag = shirts, hats etc.
* social media reach-out.
* recent alumni take them to lunch
* special campus tours for them

Can anyone detail what MU's accepted students recruiting is?

There is one conference basketball game a year that all accepted students are invited to.  The year my son was a senior, it was the Georgetown game - the first time they tried the "I believe that we will win" chant and it worked perfectly. We also won.

Can they get in trouble with the NCAA by giving out swag?  I know that they have to be careful about that with any high school and junior high students on other things like that.

I do think they need to do more personal outreach by the University.  Some schools recruited chick jr. and glow jr. really hard. They each had admissions counselors that called them so often that we knew them on a first-name basis.  One school even had the dean of their college of communications call glow jr.  It made them feel like elite athletes. 

From Marquette, crickets.  Wouldn't it be great if Marquette went after top students they way they go after top basketball players?

[mu03eng]

There is one conference basketball game a year that all accepted students are invited to.  The year my son was a senior, it was the Georgetown game - the first time they tried the "I believe that we will win" chant and it worked perfectly. We also won.

Can they get in trouble with the NCAA by giving out swag?  I know that they have to be careful about that with any high school and junior high students on other things like that.

I do think they need to do more personal outreach by the University.  Some schools recruited chick jr. and glow jr. really hard. They each had admissions counselors that called them so often that we knew them on a first-name basis.  One school even had the dean of their college of communications call glow jr.  It made them feel like elite athletes. 

From Marquette, crickets.  Wouldn't it be great if Marquette went after top students they way they go after top basketball players?

Not sure what the status is, but there is definitely an effort underway to drive that type of activity within the admissions office. The issue is one of data. Identifying the top talent can be hit or miss depending on your channel to those students. Universities with a strong logistics chain to scout then target top talent are already targeting, but MU doesn't have that kind of structure (largely volunteered/untrained recruiters in the field). The question is, how do you identify the top talent without spending a ton of money in the traditional logistic effort to gather data? If you go traditional, your acquisition costs go way up which doesn't help. They are hoping to get the data more simply but that means getting behind some sort of data standard which isn't happening as quickly as everyone would like.

It's really not that different than companies trying to recruit college students to full time roles....how do you identify who the good ones are so you can go win them.

[warriorchick]

Not sure what the status is, but there is definitely an effort underway to drive that type of activity within the admissions office. The issue is one of data. Identifying the top talent can be hit or miss depending on your channel to those students. Universities with a strong logistics chain to scout then target top talent are already targeting, but MU doesn't have that kind of structure (largely volunteered/untrained recruiters in the field). The question is, how do you identify the top talent without spending a ton of money in the traditional logistic effort to gather data? If you go traditional, your acquisition costs go way up which doesn't help. They are hoping to get the data more simply but that means getting behind some sort of data standard which isn't happening as quickly as everyone would like.

It's really not that different than companies trying to recruit college students to full time roles....how do you identify who the good ones are so you can go win them.

For my kids, the heavy recruiting started after they applied, so the schools already knew they were "top talent". They already had all of their info.

[4everwarriors]

Not sure what the status is, but there is definitely an effort underway to drive that type of activity within the admissions office. The issue is one of data. Identifying the top talent can be hit or miss depending on your channel to those students. Universities with a strong logistics chain to scout then target top talent are already targeting, but MU doesn't have that kind of structure (largely volunteered/untrained recruiters in the field). The question is, how do you identify the top talent without spending a ton of money in the traditional logistic effort to gather data? If you go traditional, your acquisition costs go way up which doesn't help. They are hoping to get the data more simply but that means getting behind some sort of data standard which isn't happening as quickly as everyone would like.

It's really not that different than companies trying to recruit college students to full time roles....how do you identify who the good ones are so you can go win them.

National Merit Finalists are known to universities, hey?

[mu03eng]

For my kids, the heavy recruiting started after they applied, so the schools already knew they were "top talent". They already had all of their info.

That's true....but that assumes that students have already self selected into MU's bucket. So I agree they need to increase their effective outreach to those who've self identified but I think the larger issue is getting the top talent overall to self select in the first place.

[warriorchick]

That's true....but that assumes that students have already self selected into MU's bucket. So I agree they need to increase their effective outreach to those who've self identified but I think the larger issue is getting the top talent overall to self select in the first place.

There are plenty of top students who apply to Marquette and wind up attending another school.  I think accepted students would be the first place to start - and it would also increase the yield rate.  Win-win.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

For my kids, the heavy recruiting started after they applied, so the schools already knew they were "top talent". They already had all of their info.

So which one of you and glow played the tim maymon role?

[keefe]

My wife and I conducted interviews for other alma maters with prospective students which included evaluating the young person over dinner.

Believe it or not, these schools place great weight on the alumni interview. As one might expect, there is significant infrastructure in place to facilitate this effort.

One thing this does is it gives a local face for the student (and the parents) to connect with. 

[keefe]

So which one of you and glow played the tim maymon role?

I think in this case it was Tina Maymon...

[keefe]

Here is what the numbers are for Marquette

Acceptance rate 57%
Yield Rate, 15%

Which means that the effective yield is 11%

[Eldon]

Here is what the numbers are for Marquette

https://colleges.niche.com/marquette-university/statistics/

Acceptance rate 57%
Yield Rate, 15%

MU's acceptance rate is lower the UW and Depaul (meaning it is more selective) and not far behind Nova.

But MU's yield rate is far lower at 15%.

As noted above the average school is spending $2,100 per Freshman to recruit them into the school?  Is MU spending that much?  I'm going to guess they are not spending near $2,100 per freshman on recruiting accepted kids.  If they spent more on recruiting accepted kids (as opposed to begging alumni to pitch the school to them) they could get their yield rate up.  If they could get it to 20%, the acceptance rate can drop to 45%  Get the yield to 25% the acceptance rate can drop under 40%.

So MU wants to get up the US news ranking ...

For accepted kids  Do they (or they should)

* free basketball tickets
* personal letters
* personal calls
* swag = shirts, hats etc.
* social media reach-out.
* recent alumni take them to lunch
* special campus tours for them

Can anyone detail what MU's accepted students recruiting is?

As I and others have noted above, acceptance rate is not the final statistic to look at.  This holds true for yield as well.  Not only can yield be manipulated by admin, but aside from that, it still doesn't get you apples to apples across institutions.

Off the cuff, I would guess that accepted MU kids likely turn down MU for Nwestern, Chicago, and Notre Dame, while accepted DePaul kids likely turn down DePaul for Illinois and possibly Loyola.  The point that I am trying to make is that MU may still be more elite than DePaul despite having a lower yield by virtue of the fact that MU's closest peer institutions are more elite than DePaul's closest peer institutions.

Nova, for instance, is a very good school that competes locally with the likes of Penn, Haverford, Swarthmore, Brynn Mawr.  Expanding a bit, it competes with Gtown, Johns Hopkins, etc.  And so Nova's yield doesn't match it's prestige/level of eliteness.

As I see it, geographical-proximity-of-peers likely affects yield.  A quick-and-dirty test of this hypothesis would be to look at the yields of Creighton and, Idk, say, Gonzaga.  Creighton and Gonzaga are good schools that are relatively geographically isolated.  My prediction, then, would be that you would see Creighton and Gonzaga with relatively higher yields, while a school like, say, Elon has a relatively low yield (has to compete with UNC, Wake, Duke).  Again, not for a lack of prestige, but because its peers are very elite and very nearby.

[MU31]

We have recent experience with the process, I have one child that just completed Sophomore year in college, and another that just finished Freshman year.  We did a fair amount of college visits, I believe 10 schools for the first, and 8 more for the second, all of the schools in the Midwest, large, medium, and small enrollments.  It's a very interesting, and fairly enjoyable process seeing the differences (academics, dorms, food, campus), and how each school goes about recruitment.  I thought overall Marquette had a very professional, but still personable approach.  Some of the smaller schools certainly did a better job with direct contact and personal follow up, enough so to develop personal (email/phone call/school visit) relationships, MU did not.  But MU was very accommodating in regard to follow up questions, visits, and even allowing the the prospective students to sit in on some classes to get a better feel for the classroom environment.  The yield piece obviously has many considerations, as not every kid is seeking the same things.  Both of my kids were accepted to MU, one decided it was the right choice to pursue their goals, and one didn't, both enjoyed the process, and both had favorable opinions of MU.  I believe they both applied and were accepted to 3 or 4 schools each.  In the end, the "bling" is irrelevant, but don't be the one school that doesn't give out a t-shirt, that does leave an impression on the students.  MU had t-shirts.

[Tugg Speedman]

Not sure what the status is, but there is definitely an effort underway to drive that type of activity within the admissions office. The issue is one of data. Identifying the top talent can be hit or miss depending on your channel to those students. Universities with a strong logistics chain to scout then target top talent are already targeting, but MU doesn't have that kind of structure (largely volunteered/untrained recruiters in the field). The question is, how do you identify the top talent without spending a ton of money in the traditional logistic effort to gather data? If you go traditional, your acquisition costs go way up which doesn't help. They are hoping to get the data more simply but that means getting behind some sort of data standard which isn't happening as quickly as everyone would like.

It's really not that different than companies trying to recruit college students to full time roles....how do you identify who the good ones are so you can go win them.

It I'm reading you right, you're talking about identifying kids to APPLY to MU.

I'm asking about the 11,000 that were accepted.  We already have detailed data on the ... their application.  So, what coordinated effort do we have to recruit these ALREADY ACCEPTED kids? 

Chick's post above says what i thought too ... essentially nothing.  If we put together an effort to identify the top students ALREADY ACCEPTED and reach out to these kids, I bet we could see immediate results in a higher yield.

[Coleman]

We have recent experience with the process, I have one child that just completed Sophomore year in college, and another that just finished Freshman year.  We did a fair amount of college visits, I believe 10 schools for the first, and 8 more for the second, all of the schools in the Midwest, large, medium, and small enrollments.  It's a very interesting, and fairly enjoyable process seeing the differences (academics, dorms, food, campus), and how each school goes about recruitment.  I thought overall Marquette had a very professional, but still personable approach.  Some of the smaller schools certainly did a better job with direct contact and personal follow up, enough so to develop personal (email/phone call/school visit) relationships, MU did not.  But MU was very accommodating in regard to follow up questions, visits, and even allowing the the prospective students to sit in on some classes to get a better feel for the classroom environment.  The yield piece obviously has many considerations, as not every kid is seeking the same things.  Both of my kids were accepted to MU, one decided it was the right choice to pursue their goals, and one didn't, both enjoyed the process, and both had favorable opinions of MU.  I believe they both applied and were accepted to 3 or 4 schools each.  In the end, the "bling" is irrelevant, but don't be the one school that doesn't give out a t-shirt, that does leave an impression on the students.  MU had t-shirts.

That's too bad MU didn't do follow-up calls. I used to volunteer to do that for accepted students. Admittedly I have been so busy the past couple years I have not done it recently.

[MU31]

That's too bad MU didn't do follow-up calls. I used to volunteer to do that for accepted students. Admittedly I have been so busy the past couple years I have not done it recently.

I'm sorry I guess I probably mis-represented in that regard.  Marquette did do followup calls, they were done by students presumably working for admissions asking "how was your visit, do you have any questions", at some point later there were more calls asking "will you take a short survey" about the process.

The difference for us was after visiting some other schools - smaller schools specifically - the person you met with was following up with calls and emails to both students and parents.  They knew you personally, asked very specific questions, tried to set up dates for an overnight visit, reminders about scholarship exams or whatever.  Over time you got to know these individuals and they really made it difficult to tell them you chose another path.  This was very noticeable by the kids, the schools that required personal interviews were taken more seriously.  In this regard MU was more generic, more anonymous, they didn't always have a specific name or face to connect with.

Once we decided on Marquette, we had specific questions about coursework - dual credit transfers etc, we realized we just didn't have a specific contact that we could talk to about it. We called the person listed as the Admissions Counselor, got passed around to 4 or 5 other people over a couple days.  Long story short, really seemed impersonal and made you think a little bit about your choice once you got past the top layer of admissions.

I don't mean to complain, everything worked out.  We love Marquette, it was just interesting how different schools handle recruiting/admissions process.

[Coleman]

I'm sorry I guess I probably mis-represented in that regard.  Marquette did do followup calls, they were done by students presumably working for admissions asking "how was your visit, do you have any questions", at some point later there were more calls asking "will you take a short survey" about the process.

The difference for us was after visiting some other schools - smaller schools specifically - the person you met with was following up with calls and emails to both students and parents.  They knew you personally, asked very specific questions, tried to set up dates for an overnight visit, reminders about scholarship exams or whatever.  Over time you got to know these individuals and they really made it difficult to tell them you chose another path.  This was very noticeable by the kids, the schools that required personal interviews were taken more seriously.  In this regard MU was more generic, more anonymous, they didn't always have a specific name or face to connect with.

Once we decided on Marquette, we had specific questions about coursework - dual credit transfers etc, we realized we just didn't have a specific contact that we could talk to about it. We called the person listed as the Admissions Counselor, got passed around to 4 or 5 other people over a couple days.  Long story short, really seemed impersonal and made you think a little bit about your choice once you got past the top layer of admissions.

I don't mean to complain, everything worked out.  We love Marquette, it was just interesting how different schools handle recruiting/admissions process.

That would probably be quite valuable feedback to pass on to the office of admissions.

[Disco Hippie]

Here is what the numbers are for Marquette

https://colleges.niche.com/marquette-university/statistics/

Acceptance rate 57%
Yield Rate, 15%

MU's acceptance rate is lower the UW and Depaul (meaning it is more selective) and not far behind Nova.

But MU's yield rate is far lower at 15%.

As noted above the average school is spending $2,100 per Freshman to recruit them into the school?  Is MU spending that much?  I'm going to guess they are not spending near $2,100 per freshman on recruiting accepted kids.  If they spent more on recruiting accepted kids (as opposed to begging alumni to pitch the school to them) they could get their yield rate up.  If they could get it to 20%, the acceptance rate can drop to 45%  Get the yield to 25% the acceptance rate can drop under 40%.

So MU wants to get up the US news ranking ...

For accepted kids  Do they (or they should)

* free basketball tickets
* personal letters
* personal calls
* swag = shirts, hats etc.
* social media reach-out.
* recent alumni take them to lunch
* special campus tours for them

Can anyone detail what MU's accepted students recruiting is?

The 57% acceptance rate figure is 3 yrs old.  The year following, it was 66% according to USNWR, and if Princeton Review is to be believed, it was 74% last year. 

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1022668/college/marquette-university

Out USNWR national ranking dropped from 75-86 in last 2 years  despite MU improving in almost every other metric they measure except acceptance rate.  Coincidence?    I think not.

[GGGG]

The 57% acceptance rate figure is 3 yrs old.  The year following, it was 66% according to USNWR, and if Princeton Review is to be believed, it was 74% last year. 

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1022668/college/marquette-university

Out USNWR national ranking dropped from 75-86 in last 2 years  despite MU improving in almost every other metric they measure except acceptance rate.  Coincidence?    I think not.

That tells you more about the absurdity of the metric more than anything.

[mu03eng]

It I'm reading you right, you're talking about identifying kids to APPLY to MU.

I'm asking about the 11,000 that were accepted.  We already have detailed data on the ... their application.  So, what coordinated effort do we have to recruit these ALREADY ACCEPTED kids? 

Chick's post above says what i thought too ... essentially nothing.  If we put together an effort to identify the top students ALREADY ACCEPTED and reach out to these kids, I bet we could see immediate results in a higher yield.

My understanding from admissions is the concern is not in turning applied students into accepted, but in turning a higher quality of high school kids into applicants. They think they can get enough out of the applicant pool but they want to improve the quality of the applicants.

I'm not smart enough to know if that is a good idea or not, just reporting what I know

[4everwarriors]

First step in doin' dat is ta get da endowment up. Also, while we may say US News' rankin's don't mean chit, fact remains dat its a great marketin' tool and feather in a school's cap, to acheive a high number. Don't poo, poo it. Gotta play da game, ai na?

[Tugg Speedman]

The 57% acceptance rate figure is 3 yrs old.  The year following, it was 66% according to USNWR, and if Princeton Review is to be believed, it was 74% last year. 

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1022668/college/marquette-university

Out USNWR national ranking dropped from 75-86 in last 2 years  despite MU improving in almost every other metric they measure except acceptance rate.  Coincidence?    I think not.

The fix to this to recruit accepted students to enroll.  Increase the acceptance yield and then you can lower the percentage of applications accepted.

Regarding the USN ranking, their is usually 5 and 6 way ties at the 75 to 85 range.  So it is not that 11 schools are ranked better.  It is more that MU down-ticked one notch and went from a 6 way tie with some schools to a 5 way tie with others.  Point is the difference between #70 and #85 is not that much.  It is almost a rounding error.

[keefe]

That's too bad MU didn't do follow-up calls. I used to volunteer to do that for accepted students. Admittedly I have been so busy the past couple years I have not done it recently.

So...you are volunteering us to do the calls??

Just kidding.

Actually, I would do that if the Admissions Office asked me to. There are quite a few Marquette alums in Seattle and I am sure we could organize some events for prospective students.

[keefe]

First step in doin' dat is ta get da endowment up.

Doc

I am proud to say that my endowment is up every morning.