What on earth am I missing?

[mu03eng]

What has to happen in order for next season to be a success, NCAA or bust?

NCAA or bust for sure

[Goose]

If stats is what gets everyone excited than Carter improved on assist-turnover as season progressed. I have watched a lot of basketball this season and he would not get off the bunch at 95% of the top 50 schools. Just because he better than other options does not make him a PG to build a team around. Obviously with Wojo chasing Howard he does not believe Carter is guy for the future.

Honestly, know I do if Wojo can coach or not, but my guess is that he knows he needs major upgrade at PG for team to get better.  I hope he lands Howard and this Carter being a stud conversation can slow down.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Obviously with Wojo chasing Howard he does not believe Carter is guy for the future.

I wouldn't say that. PG is the most important position and getting one every year is not a bad thing. Howard is a superior scorer and Traci is a better floor general IMHO. I think both will see a lot of time should Howard end up here. I think you will see a lot of lineups with both of them on the floor together.

[mu_hilltopper]

What has to happen in order for next season to be a success, NCAA or bust?

For a new coach .. 3rd year .. I'll go for .. NIT home game is the bare minimum.  That'll be a D+, but passing grade.   Marquette spends too damn much money on basketball not to be in the top ~100 teams every single year.

I think the NIT is a coin flip if (when) Henry leaves.  Hope that's super wrong.

[mu03eng]

For a new coach .. 3rd year .. I'll go for .. NIT home game is the bare minimum.  That'll be a D+, but passing grade.   Marquette spends too damn much money on basketball not to be in the top ~100 teams every single year.

I think the NIT is a coin flip if (when) Henry leaves.  Hope that's super wrong.

That's still falling awfully far for this program.....4 years with only an NIT bid to show for it....who are we Northwestern???

[Goose]

TAMU

We definitely look at talent differently. Carter does not have an eye for the position like a tier one PG and he cannot score. By not having the eye, I mean knowing where to hit a guy with a pass. That is a born skill and he does not have it. A great field general PG always makes the right pass and always to where the ball should be passed to. Carter sees the pass at times, but seldom hits the mark. IMO he is light years away from being a PG on a top level team.

He dribbles to hoop with no idea of what do next, dribbles too much and if not dribbling too much he picks up the dribble too quickly. I think everyone out here has just watched HORRIBLE PG for so long you forget what a very good or great one looks like.

[Loose Cannon]

Agreed.  For next year's failure, Wojo's blame% goes to about 60-70.

Am I reading this Right.......this is your prediction?

[mu03eng]

TAMU

We definitely look at talent differently. Carter does not have an eye for the position like a tier one PG and he cannot score. By not having the eye, I mean knowing where to hit a guy with a pass. That is a born skill and he does not have it. A great field general PG always makes the right pass and always to where the ball should be passed to. Carter sees the pass at times, but seldom hits the mark. IMO he is light years away from being a PG on a top level team.

He dribbles to hoop with no idea of what do next, dribbles too much and if not dribbling too much he picks up the dribble too quickly. I think everyone out here has just watched HORRIBLE PG for so long you forget what a very good or great one looks like.

You did see the pass he delivered to Fischer to win the Georgetown game yes? Or the baseline pass through the 2-3 zone against Xavier in the Big East? Or how he scored down low against Butler and Georgetown? Yes?

He will be very good, he significantly improved through the season and most improvement happens between frosh and sophomore years

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

We definitely look at talent differently. Carter does not have an eye for the position like a tier one PG and he cannot score. By not having the eye, I mean knowing where to hit a guy with a pass. That is a born skill and he does not have it. A great field general PG always makes the right pass and always to where the ball should be passed to. Carter sees the pass at times, but seldom hits the mark. IMO he is light years away from being a PG on a top level team.

He dribbles to hoop with no idea of what do next, dribbles too much and if not dribbling too much he picks up the dribble too quickly. I think everyone out here has just watched HORRIBLE PG for so long you forget what a very good or great one looks like.

Carter has made his share of mistakes but I think your estimates on Carter's success rate in passing are way off. I've seen Carter make beautiful passes that most freshmen couldn't dream of making. mu03eng listed some of the highlights.

Carter wasn't a good scorer, but he wasn't a horrible one either. I think he was asked to do more than he was capable of in his first season, exposing some flaws in his game. I think he will be much more efficient going forward. He's already shown he can hit the longball, consistency will come with experience.

Carter's defense is also very good for a freshman. He was our best on ball defender this season and has very active hands. Defense is hard to teach freshman and Carter picked it up quickly.

The one mistake that I saw Carter constantly make, and you pointed it out, is picking up his dribble in no man's land. That's something he needs to work on but I'm confident that will be something addressed by Coach Wojo and company.

Freshmen should never be asked to run the point from day 1. Its too complicated and crucial of a position. I though Carter handled admirably. More experience and some better shooters around him and I think he will be a very good PG.

[mu_hilltopper]

Am I reading this Right.......this is your prediction?

Yeah I'd predict it's a coin flip on an NIT bid next year, Henry dependent. 


Our RPI was 106 this year.

Next year with Henry - RPI in the 40s, NCAAs

Without Henry - RPI in the 70s (if we learn from this year's scheduling debacle.  90s if we do not.)

Those are my expectations.  Hope they are exceeded.

[KenoshaWarrior]

IMHO, Wojo deserves about 25% blame for this year's failure. 

The braintrust that created the OOC schedule another 25+ (which may include Wojo.)

The remainder is a combo of Buzz, LWilliams, Pilarz.

The thread started with trying to deflect blame from Wojo, but .. does anyone think he's the one mostly to blame?

Edit: Not Cottingham.  So many ADs to remember.

More like 75 percent on Lwilliams and Pilarz.   As AirForce said "Wanted to trade in dreadlocks for buzz cuts"

[Small Orange Soda]

People seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouth on the transfer issue.

This whole "Wojo is looking at the long term" tries to play down that Wojo knows how impactful transfers can be(Carlino), and went after them after last season.  So Wojo and staff contacted graduate transfers like Damion Lee and others, but ended up striking out.  People keep pushing the narrative of "looking at the long term" because he wasn't able to get guys in the short term (which, admittedly, is easier said than done.  But it's not somehow the 'wrong' way). 

If Wojo landed a guy like Lee and we were discussing our first round matchup later this week instead of sitting at home again, would people be complaining that Wojo wasn't thinking long term?  Nope.

[JakeBarnes]

People seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouth on the transfer issue.

This whole "Wojo is looking at the long term" tries to play down that Wojo knows how impactful transfers can be(Carlino), and went after them after last season.  So Wojo and staff contacted graduate transfers like Damion Lee and others, but ended up striking out.  People keep pushing the narrative of "looking at the long term" because he wasn't able to get guys in the short term (which, admittedly, is easier said than done.  But it's not somehow the 'wrong' way). 

If Wojo landed a guy like Lee and we were discussing our first round matchup later this week instead of sitting at home again, would people be complaining that Wojo wasn't thinking long term?  Nope.

I do think there is a point to talking about a Wojo long term plan. His predecessor enjoyed putting together short term guys and then building a system around them. Wojo is working on getting "his guys" for "his system." I believe there is something to be said about a long term plan. Especially when we are in year 1 of that plan.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

People seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouth on the transfer issue.

This whole "Wojo is looking at the long term" tries to play down that Wojo knows how impactful transfers can be(Carlino), and went after them after last season.  So Wojo and staff contacted graduate transfers like Damion Lee and others, but ended up striking out.  People keep pushing the narrative of "looking at the long term" because he wasn't able to get guys in the short term (which, admittedly, is easier said than done.  But it's not somehow the 'wrong' way). 

If Wojo landed a guy like Lee and we were discussing our first round matchup later this week instead of sitting at home again, would people be complaining that Wojo wasn't thinking long term?  Nope.

I don't think that's the case. Wojo is building for the long term but still went after those grad transfers. Grad transfers are a great way to patch holes in a roster. Its just not good to rely on them. Wojo struck out on grad transfers but getting beat by UConn and Lousiville in a recruiting battle is hardly damning.

[ChicosBailBonds]

IMHO, Wojo deserves about 25% blame for this year's failure. 

The braintrust that created the OOC schedule another 25+ (which may include Wojo.)

The remainder is a combo of Buzz, LWilliams, Pilarz.

The thread started with trying to deflect blame from Wojo, but .. does anyone think he's the one mostly to blame?

Edit: Not Cottingham.  So many ADs to remember.

No, this thread did not start to deflect blame from Wojo....or was this your interpretation of a conservative?  What if a liberal started it   

This thread was started to explain reality, which is EXACTLY what it did!  Young team, inherited players that were massively overrated according to their recruiting rankings and didn't fit the right pieces, young staff, etc, etc.   To answer your last question, yes there are many clowns here, especially in this thread, that in fact blame this coach, which is comical.  Of course there are clowns here that think the talent on this team is really good because some rankings somewhere said so....apparently his eyeballs don't work.

[ChicosBailBonds]

NCAA or bust for sure

Depends on a lot of things.

Does JJJ stay?

What does HE do?

Any other changes?

I would say NIT or bust, and hopefully NCAA.  The goal should be NCAA next year, but it will depend on who is around as the roster may change a few times over.

[Small Orange Soda]

I don't think that's the case. Wojo is building for the long term but still went after those grad transfers. Grad transfers are a great way to patch holes in a roster. Its just not good to rely on them. Wojo struck out on grad transfers but getting beat by UConn and Lousiville in a recruiting battle is hardly damning.

I'm not saying it's damning, I'm saying let's call a spade a spade.  Wojo wisely went after grad transfers, and it didn't work out.  That isn't eschewing short term planning for long term.  That's just settling for Plan B.

[ChicosBailBonds]

More like 75 percent on Lwilliams and Pilarz.   As AirForce said "Wanted to trade in dreadlocks for buzz cuts"

What led to LWilliams and Pilarz decisions?


https://www.youtube.com/v/gnJjJkyTrv8

https://www.youtube.com/v/FiwLe9wXgww

https://www.youtube.com/v/vjjjTPrZ-D0

http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2012/8/25/3267395/marquette-fires-assistant-coach-scott-monarch-suspends-buzz-williams

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/120247929.html

http://www.wisn.com/Six-Marquette-Basketball-Players-Cited-For-Being-In-Club-Underage/10935168

I could provide about 20 other links.  What is the administration supposed to do Nate?  Attaboy Buzz, good job by your team and staff?

[CountryRoads]

TAMU

We definitely look at talent differently. Carter does not have an eye for the position like a tier one PG and he cannot score. By not having the eye, I mean knowing where to hit a guy with a pass. That is a born skill and he does not have it. A great field general PG always makes the right pass and always to where the ball should be passed to. Carter sees the pass at times, but seldom hits the mark. IMO he is light years away from being a PG on a top level team.

He dribbles to hoop with no idea of what do next, dribbles too much and if not dribbling too much he picks up the dribble too quickly. I think everyone out here has just watched HORRIBLE PG for so long you forget what a very good or great one looks like.

This is spot on. I think carter has a role but if MU wants to get back to being a top 20 program nationally they need a top flight PG. Fortunately, I think the staff realizes this.

Also, with regards to grad transfers...I think we may now be on the end of getting "grad transferred" (as in losing a player) vs. acquiring a player lol

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

What led to LWilliams and Pilarz decisions?

I could provide about 20 other links.  What is the administration supposed to do Nate?  Attaboy Buzz, good job by your team and staff?

They could have fired him...

[auburnmarquette]

That's still falling awfully far for this program.....4 years with only an NIT bid to show for it....who are we Northwestern???

Unfortunately Northwestern is in a league where everyone knows they will be on ESPN and considered one of the major conferences forever. The Big East schools did a great job for the next best thing - a big TV deal to give us a shot to be considered a major conference, but the deal and a lack several good NCAA tournament wins could drop us to mid-major status. If that happens, we will be at a lower level permanently, which is why I am focused so hard on Seton Hall, Butler etc. this week.

[BM1090]

The team played zone almost the entire year last year...with the same personnel as this year...using it more(and perhaps even as the base D) would have been a way to minimize Luke's fouling issues. Then there's also the idea of bringing Luke off the bench, to save his fouls so to speak. Buzz did that with Davante, and that worked out typically very well.

Same personnel as last year? We had more new players than returning players.

[naginiF]

I agree with Pakuni and Hards in the same thread.   We might want to lock this one up, pin it to the top for posterity sake.

FWIW I'm a) thoroughly enjoying the CBB's Pakuni powers working together and b) appreciate you carrying the battle flag for rational thinking Chico's.  I hope you get to ski but i also hope you keep your keyboard by your wine glass for another day.

One subject I'm baffled on is the "Buzz would have..." line of argument.  Buzz was/is a very good coach but it is well established the administration and board of directors of the university didn't feel that his approach to running the program was in line with what the university wanted.  I for one am glad we have an administration that wants to take the clear high road AND have a successful program.  A couple of off years is worth that goal.  Is it a sure thing? No, but it's worth striving for.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Unfortunately Northwestern is in a league where everyone knows they will be on ESPN and considered one of the major conferences forever. The Big East schools did a great job for the next best thing - a big TV deal to give us a shot to be considered a major conference, but the deal and a lack several good NCAA tournament wins could drop us to mid-major status. If that happens, we will be at a lower level permanently, which is why I am focused so hard on Seton Hall, Butler etc. this week.

This is stupid. I agree the B10 has more cache than the Big East, but it is absolutely not a mid major conference. Stop listening to your Badger friends; they received an inferior education.

Big East is a major conference. If a player is deciding STRICTLY on TV deal, then yea, the B10 will win out. Clearly wasn't an issue for HE. Every school has a mix of benefits that it uniquely provides. Coach, League, Current Roster, Playing Syle, Location, Academics...

MU is fine in competing for top talent. If there was a systematic disadvantage to being a Big East team, Xavier and Villanova would be cinderellas for their making the tourney at all.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah I'd predict it's a coin flip on an NIT bid next year, Henry dependent. 


Our RPI was 106 this year.

Next year with Henry - RPI in the 40s, NCAAs

Without Henry - RPI in the 70s (if we learn from this year's scheduling debacle.  90s if we do not.)

Those are my expectations.  Hope they are exceeded.

Thanks for your breakdown