What on earth am I missing?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Previous coach doesn't make NIT, leaves crap burger for new coach

Misaligned recruits, no point guard

Kids transfer or don't follow through on their commitments

New coach has tough first season, but not unexpected

New coach has ONE recruiting class thus far, and it was a great recruiting class

New coach has improved second season both in conference and overall.  Several top 50 RPI wins

FRESHMEN played 48.3% of all minutes on this team.  Think about that for a second.

Yet it is new coach's fault?

What on earth am I missing?  The way some of you describe, the previous coach left here going to the NCAA tournament and massive talent on the team.  WRONG. 

[GooooMarquette]

I don't think you're missing anything.

Many of us - me included - hoped we'd do better this year.  But I see the youth of both the coach and the team, and can't say I am terribly surprised at the outcome.  I see Wojo taking a long-term view at rebuilding the program, favoring players who fit his vision over quick-fixes...which means slow, steady improvement.

IMHO, we won't have a true picture of Wojo's abilities for another year or two.  For now, I am cautiously optimistic - thrilled with Wojo's ability to draw top-flight recruits, and waiting to see on his ability to fit the pieces together.

[Goose]

Chico's


Agree on everything with exception of ONE great recruiting class. It was a very good one but the foundation of what made that class great likely is gone. Of the remaining three HC has a chance to be an upper end D1 player, Carter a backup/role player and incomplete at best on kid from MN.

[alexius23]

This season had quality wins but also had awful losses as well. This team mightget better next season. Wojo can up the level of competition (some of the 20 wins were against lower level teams).
Then again Henry Ellenson could go pro, the team might not improve with another season of experience, and the incoming player might not offer as much as MU hopes. Is this the new normal for Marquette?

[Aughnanure]

Previous coach doesn't make NIT, leaves crap burger for new coach

Misaligned recruits, no point guard

Kids transfer or don't follow through on their commitments

New coach has tough first season, but not unexpected

New coach has ONE recruiting class thus far, and it was a great recruiting class

New coach has improved second season both in conference and overall.  Several top 50 RPI wins

Yet it is new coach's fault?

What on earth am I missing?  The way some of you describe, the previous coach left here going to the NCAA tournament and massive talent on the team.  WRONG.

Utterly nothing.

[Aughnanure]

Chico's


Agree on everything with exception of ONE great recruiting class. It was a very good one but the foundation of what made that class great likely is gone. Of the remaining three HC has a chance to be an upper end D1 player, Carter a backup/role player and incomplete at best on kid from MN.

Carter is better than a backup/role player. It's like some people don't think freshmen improve.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Utterly nothing.

I added one more....Freshman played 48.3% of all minutes.   I'd be hard pressed to find many teams in the country that come close to that.

[brewcity77]

I don't place this entirely on Wojo. Guessing I'm not the target demographic of this thread. This is on scheduling, which is partially Wojo but also in large part others.

I do feel that a 20-win Marquette team should be playing postseason basketball. There should never be an exception to that. I feel the team improved over the course of the year, but feel that our development may have actually been stunted by playing such a weak schedule in December that had us ill-prepared for Big East play. Our 2-5 start is a clear indicator of that.

Wojo can recruit and develop talent. The jury is out on whether he can coach. I'm not at all ready to cut ties this early. I'd like to see postseason play next year (NIT or NCAA) and us back to competing for the top-half of the league and NCAA berths no later than 2017-18. If that doesn't happen, it's time to break out the short list.

[TheTulsaWarrior]

Yes, I'm disappointed but realize BW left the program in worse shape than when he took it over.  Wojo has not done the JUCO quick fix approach.  This team was one game away from at least making the NIT.  Marquette fans have been spoiled over the years and I include myself in that group.  The numbers indicate an upward trend.  The lose of Henry in the coming season will be tough but it may be off set by player development and the incoming recruits. 

Get a junkyard dog type forward and Marquette will be fine.  Former Hamilton High School forward, Elgin Cook was named the MVP for the PAC 12 Tournament.  He was a JUCO who has had two outstanding seasons with the Oregon Ducks.  That's the kind of recruit Marquette needs to bring in -- a 6-6 player with a street fighter's approach to the game.

[HoopsterBC]

I don't place this entirely on Wojo. Guessing I'm not the target demographic of this thread. This is on scheduling, which is partially Wojo but also in large part others.

I do feel that a 20-win Marquette team should be playing postseason basketball. There should never be an exception to that. I feel the team improved over the course of the year, but feel that our development may have actually been stunted by playing such a weak schedule in December that had us ill-prepared for Big East play. Our 2-5 start is a clear indicator of that.

Wojo can recruit and develop talent. The jury is out on whether he can coach. I'm not at all ready to cut ties this early. I'd like to see postseason play next year (NIT or NCAA) and us back to competing for the top-half of the league and NCAA berths no later than 2017-18. If that doesn't happen, it's time to break out the short list.

Not sure yet about his recruiting, Hauser is nice get this year and Howard might be as well, time will tell on that one but he has not signed a big yet for next year, which will give them a chance to be in the top half of the Big East.  Watching Hall, X, and Villy, the one thing sticks out in my mind is how tough and physical they are.
Not sure the recruits he got or is getting are in that category.  He has starting spot open for somebody, just has to find that grad student or JC kid that has some experience, or Fernando or Young, but board quiet on these kids right now.

[muguru]

Wojo's game plans were totally uncreative at best. he never threw any wrinkles at teams, very rarely changed things up in game...does he even draw up plays on the sidelines during time outs?? Whenever they would show "in the huddle" with Wojo, all you'd hear him say was "keep fighting, keep fighting etc", you never saw him with a clipboard actually designing plays. Buzz and TC always always threw a wrinkle into things depending on the opponent...Two examples that stood out to me were when TC put Chris Grimm on Alando Tucker in a game vs UW at the BC...stroke of genius, it worked out beautifully. Then who will ever forget Buzz putting Jimmy Butler on Tu Holloway in the NCAA tourney vs. Xavier in 2011...shut him down...ball game.

Wojo has done NONE of that. heck, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why he didn't at least switch into a zone vs. Nova at the BC, they were getting killed off the dribble...what would t hurt to try it...couldn't have been any worse.

His offense...Henry spent way to much time out at the top of the key setting picks etc. That's not how a dominate big should be utilized...His ass should have been under the basket and stayed there. he never changed that up during the year either. I just see a whole lot of nothing from him right now...This is a coach that often times drew up plays for Coach K(Coach K himself said that), coached the US national team, and was highly regarded...he's been a good recruiter, we've seen that...but as a coach?? So far, i think a lot less than advertised IMO.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wojo has done NONE of that. heck, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why he didn't at least switch into a zone vs. Nova at the BC, they were getting killed off the dribble...what would t hurt to try it...couldn't have been any worse.

Not to ruin your post, but Wojo did switch into a 2-3 zone against Nova in the second half to take away the dunking at will by Ochefu when Luke got his 4th.  They hit a bunch of jump shots and we had to switch out it.  They were just better than us.

[tower912]

No.   Crean was nearly incapable of an in-game adjustment.    And a lot of whether or not a coach can create an in-game adjustment is based on what the team has practiced.    And if you have a team as young as this one, so much time is spent on the base offense and defense that there isn't that much time to thrown on plan b's.    Finally, Bo did OK without ever making an in game adjustment. 

[OhioGoldenEagle]

I think part of the impatience with Woj comes from the fact that Buzz didn't make the tourney in his final year either.....so the long NCAA drought is amplified on the current coach.  I'm still standing with "the process" but not seeing MU's name pop yesterday (again) is getting a bit tiring.  If we're sitting on the outside looking in again come next Selection Sunday (of which I fully expect with the exit of Henry) it's gonna get ugly around here

[Warrior of Law]

The depth of the program when Buzz left cannot be overstated.  Unless you're Duke or Kentucky, you don't rebuild in one season.

On the other hand, Crean was able to take 3 frosh (and Steve Novak, of course) to a NCAA bid.  I think there's room for disappointment, but on the whole, it was a year-one of a rebuild.

[muguru]

No.   Crean was nearly incapable of an in-game adjustment.    And a lot of whether or not a coach can create an in-game adjustment is based on what the team has practiced.    And if you have a team as young as this one, so much time is spent on the base offense and defense that there isn't that much time to thrown on plan b's.    Finally, Bo did OK without ever making an in game adjustment.

The team played zone almost the entire year last year...with the same personnel as this year...using it more(and perhaps even as the base D) would have been a way to minimize Luke's fouling issues. Then there's also the idea of bringing Luke off the bench, to save his fouls so to speak. Buzz did that with Davante, and that worked out typically very well.

[Lennys Tap]

Previous coach doesn't make NIT, leaves crap burger for new coach

Previous coach left behind 5 RSCI top 100 players, 3 of whom were top 60 and 4 of whom were underclassmen.

Previous coach went to an historically bad program with no tradition and much worse players than the ones he left behind.

Previous coach turned his entire roster over in two years, finished in the ACC's first division and made the NIT.

Present coach, with 3 remaining top 100 (including a top 60 and a top 30) players finished under .500 and in 7th place in the 10 team Big East.


What on earth am I missing?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, we'll see how he does over the next two years, I don't know.  What I do know is the pants pissing panic folks putting this on the current coach, sure have an enormous blind spot about what the last coach left and bailed on.  The same crowd is also apparently missing who played for us this year, the improvement the team made, etc. 

Lots of ways to rebuild a program, we are going about it with depth and long term, non quick fix approach (i.e. massive roster changes every two years).  That process takes longer than the quick fix process, I'm not sure why MU educated fans don't comprehend this....I really don't.

[Big Papi]

Previous coach doesn't make NIT, leaves crap burger for new coach. 

Misaligned recruits, no point guard

Kids transfer or don't follow through on their commitments

New coach has tough first season, but not unexpected

New coach has ONE recruiting class thus far, and it was a great recruiting class

New coach has improved second season both in conference and overall.  Several top 50 RPI wins

FRESHMEN played 48.3% of all minutes on this team.  Think about that for a second.

Yet it is new coach's fault?

What on earth am I missing?  The way some of you describe, the previous coach left here going to the NCAA tournament and massive talent on the team.  WRONG.

Buzz left some players and had some good players coming in, Wojo was unable to convince the two prize incoming recruits to stay on board, convinced only 1 in general and nudged Burton out the door.  Wojo was not able to smooth over the transition.  Part of that crap burger is on WOJO.

No point guard in year 1, only 1 point guard in year two.  Wojo wanting to turn Haanif into a point guard early on when he was not ready is on WOJO.

Tough first season was expected.

New coach has 2 recruiting years, 1 being very good but IF the prize recruit of that great recruiting class leaves after one year to be a NBA lottery pick, not making any post season tournament this year is considered a huge disappointment.  Now IF that prize recruit leaves than that very good recruiting class is not so "great".

New coach has improved second season with one of the worst non-conference schedules one could create.  Add to that the number of blowouts we endured, not sniffing the NCAA or NIT and potentially our best player leaving for the NBA and its more of a downer than be overly excited about next year.

Freshmen played 48.3% of all minutes.  How many of those did HE play?  If he is one and done, no postseason, was it worth it?  Those minutes played by HE will be for nothing.  Also, I would argue JJJ and Duane deserved more minutes in general and playing time was a little mismanaged.  That they were coming off the bench for a decent chunk of the year instead of starting and providing leadership was again more mismanagement on a part of WOJO.

So is it the new coaches fault?  Yes I have to say that he takes a lot of the blame since it is his program.  Hopefully he learns and we reach the levels of success from our last 2 coaches.  A Final Four, Sweet 16 and an Elite 8 appearance.  Right now I guess everyone is praying for an NIT berth for next year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Buzz left some players and had some good players coming in, Wojo was unable to convince the two prize incoming recruits to stay on board, convinced only 1 in general and nudged Burton out the door.  Wojo was not able to smooth over the transition.  Part of that crap burger is on WOJO.

No point guard in year 1, only 1 point guard in year two.  Wojo wanting to turn Haanif into a point guard early on when he was not ready is on WOJO.

Tough first season was expected.

New coach has 2 recruiting years, 1 being very good but IF the prize recruit of that great recruiting class leaves after one year to be a NBA lottery pick, not making any post season tournament this year is considered a huge disappointment.  Now IF that prize recruit leaves than that very good recruiting class is not so "great".

New coach has improved second season with one of the worst non-conference schedules one could create.  Add to that the number of blowouts we endured, not sniffing the NCAA or NIT and potentially our best player leaving for the NBA and its more of a downer than be overly excited about next year.

Freshmen played 48.3% of all minutes.  How many of those did HE play?  If he is one and done, no postseason, was it worth it?  Those minutes played by HE will be for nothing.  Also, I would argue JJJ and Duane deserved more minutes in general and playing time was a little mismanaged.  That they were coming off the bench for a decent chunk of the year instead of starting and providing leadership was again more mismanagement on a part of WOJO.

So is it the new coaches fault?  Yes I have to say that he takes a lot of the blame since it is his program.  Hopefully he learns and we reach the levels of success from our last 2 coaches.  A Final Four, Sweet 16 and an Elite 8 appearance.  Right now I guess everyone is praying for an NIT berth for next year.

Oh please....kids commit to a school mostly because of the coach and the relationship they have with the recruiter.  So a new coach couldn't convince a couple of recruits he had no relationship to play?  Give me a break.

We also improved in the Big East conference, you somehow left that off.

The players Buzz left us, PG deficient which is the MOST important position in college basketball.  I don't think you understand the level of talent Buzz left behind.  In terms of the great recruits that Wojo didn't convince to come here, one averaged 1.7 points per game this year....for a guy named Buzz.

Sorry, those minutes played by HE are not for nothing.  We landed a very good recruit, that's a good thing for a coach to be able to say to land future very good recruits.  Let me guess, if HE didn't play a bunch of minutes you would have given Wojo a pass?  LOL

[Pakuni]

Previous coach left behind 5 RSCI top 100 players, 3 of whom were top 60 and 4 of whom were underclassmen.

Previous coach went to an historically bad program with no tradition and much worse players than the ones he left behind.

Previous coach turned his entire roster over in two years, finished in the ACC's first division and made the NIT.

Present coach, with 3 remaining top 100 (including a top 60 and a top 30) players finished under .500 and in 7th place in the 10 team Big East.


What on earth am I missing?

For starters, the fact that three years later, RSCI rankings are meaningless.

I mean, I get the disappointment of this season. I share it. But judging results on recruiting rankings while not considering other factors seems a bit silly.

[mu03eng]

Whoever said Carter is a backup is nuts, per statistics he had 3rd best PG season at Marquette in last 15 years.

He will grow and improve...not sure he will finish as best ever but he will be a very good PG at MU barring injury

[Lennys Tap]

For starters, the fact that three years later, RSCI rankings are meaningless.

I mean, I get the disappointment of this season. I share it. But judging results on recruiting rankings while not considering other factors seems a bit silly.

Point is the "cupboard bare" dumpster fire excuse is much more legit for Buzz than for Wojo. And so is the sorry state of the "Program". None of that stopped Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

For starters, the fact that three years later, RSCI rankings are meaningless.

I mean, I get the disappointment of this season. I share it. But judging results on recruiting rankings while not considering other factors seems a bit silly.

Exactly.  Well said.   

For the same reason Victor Oladipo wasn't in the RSCI, nor a guy named Dwyane Wade (learn to spell our greatest player ever Lenny)...like preseason rankings, the recruiting rankings are so so, but if 3 years later you can't see the talent isn't there, those recruiting rankings are worth very little except to defend a jilted lover who went to another school and left our program in worse shape than when he came.

[Hards Alumni]

Previous coach doesn't make NIT, leaves crap burger for new coach

Misaligned recruits, no point guard

Kids transfer or don't follow through on their commitments

New coach has tough first season, but not unexpected

New coach has ONE recruiting class thus far, and it was a great recruiting class

New coach has improved second season both in conference and overall.  Several top 50 RPI wins

FRESHMEN played 48.3% of all minutes on this team.  Think about that for a second.

Yet it is new coach's fault?

What on earth am I missing?  The way some of you describe, the previous coach left here going to the NCAA tournament and massive talent on the team.  WRONG.

Nothing.  You've pretty much nailed it.  Too much impatience in today's world.