SJU thoughts

[brandx]

Green was National Player of the Year as a Senior. Izzo says he is one of the greatest Spartans ever. Other than that ,Your right, there is no comparison.

Green stayed in college because he wouldn't have been drafted.

[WarriorPride68]

I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.

Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.

The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.

Chad Ford has him in the top 5. That is a guaranteed deal of $3+ million per year for 3-4 years, and a year closer to his next contract when the salary cap will be in the 100 millions by then.

IMO, fairly different. If your friends son played D1, he had to stay for atleast 3 years per NCAA baseball rules:

"However, if players enroll at a four-year college, they must complete three years to regain eligibility, unless they reach age 21 before starting their third year of attendance."

[Marcus92]

You can come up with all the examples you want of players who stayed in school or declared early. But none of that matters in the least, because none of those players are Henry Ellenson. He's the one making the decision, and I have yet to hear him state anything publicly on the matter. Nothing to see here until he does.

[MU82]

Green is a terrible example. He had 0.00% chance of being drafted after his freshman year, 0.01% chance of being drafted after his sophomore year and 0.02% chance of being drafted after his junior year. Hell, he barely got drafted after his senior year. So stop being silly.

Blake Griffin is by far the best comparison as far as a hyped freshman who would have been a lottery pick but decided to stay for a second year. He even had his brother on the team with him.

And for the bazillionth time ...

It doesn't matter if several Scoopers (or even the majority of Scoopers) think Hank isn't "ready" for the NBA. Nor does it matter if Hank goes on to be an NBA failure after collecting his millions.

What matters is that several NBA GMs/scouting directors think Hank is a skilled 6-11 guy with the potential to be a prototypical "stretch 4."

And what really matters is if Henry wants to go pro after one year or if he wants to stick around because he simply likes the MU experience.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now back to the game. In reviewing the stat sheet, St. John's was 9 of 23 from three-land. That's way too many points from beyond the arc. I know Wojo said he liked our defense today, but this one is glaring and someone needs to think about it.

At least three of those makes were desperation heaves that had no business going in. Thought our defense was very solid tonight.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.

Love the potential in Traci. Once the  game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.

Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.

Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.

Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.

All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.

[tower912]

Good point.   Wojo made an adjustment to beat the press.   He removed Sandy, gave Henry the ball, and reminded him to run the baseline until he got a pass he liked. 

[GGGG]

I missed this gem until World just pointed it out. Wowzers

He's been saying this all year.  It makes no sense.

[mileskishnish72]

WP68, I was referencing Sugar's charts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Forget to mention this. Sacar Anim will be a contributor one day. Maybe even a starter. Had a nice drive for a score and played really good defense. Guarded Durand Johnson the whole time and he only managed one off balance desperation three that had no business going in. Good to have him and Heldt for short spurts

[Dawson Rental]

While prior to Scoop, I remember these same type of conversations about Wade. 

Henry *might* stick around, but he'll have a great opportunity to go pro.

To me the amazing thing is how this topic seems to pop up in every thread.  There was a lot of talk about Bo Ellis, too, back in the day.  (Is there an emoticon somewhere with white hair in a cardigan?)

[Dawson Rental]

I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.

Love the potential in Traci. Once the  game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.

Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.

Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.

Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.

All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.

Salwi, in another thread, said that Henry didn't get called for a charge that he was called for stepping out by the ref at mid-court.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

That has been my consistent position for a long time.

Thanks Texas

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Salwi, in another thread, said that Henry didn't get called for a charge that he was called for stepping out by the ref at mid-court.

I saw that. I looked at the game tracker play by play. According to that it was a charge

[SaveOD238]

The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do.  St Johns attempted 69 to our 52, Depaul out-shot us 57-42, and even in our win against Providence we were outshot 61-43.  Against Xavier we took more shots, but the difference was Duane's ten three point attempts.  The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers.  Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity.  Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts).  That's a recipe for winning

[MUWarrior4Life]

is there a site where the full game is available for viewing, by chance?

[Jay Bee]

* Turning the ball over on 27% of the possessions is just more of the same.  82 possession game is just way too much.
* Free throws the deciding factor.
* Henry 18 rebounds was a difference maker with the 9 possession differential on turnovers.
* Buy Mullin some Prosacea Rosacea cream.

TO's - second worst of the season at 26.7%.. but everytime MU has given up the ball 26 to 27% of the time this year, they have won. Yuck.

Free throws not a deciding factor. Waaaay in the background.

Henry's rebounds were all defensive except for 1 (big putback!). St. John's still outrebounded MU with a 24% OR% vs. MU's 13%.

Mullin's face doesn't appear to consistent of human skin. It's wax or some other odd substance. What an odd looking fellow (nh).

This game was decided - as most games are - by FG shooting.

MU shot 53.9% eFG compared to St. John's 41.3%. That was the game.

MU shot an impressive 25-45 for 55.6% 2FG, taking into consideration the fact they were blocked 8 times, including 7 by college basketball's best shot blocker K. Yakwe.

Meanwhile St. John's had only 1 more 2FGA compared to MU and was blocked just 4 times (all Henry), yet made only 15 of 46 for 32.6%.

MU's 2-point defense continues to be a major strength.. having Luke and Henry there helps a lot.

[MU82]

I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.

Love the potential in Traci. Once the  game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.

Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.

Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.

Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.

All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.

As is often the case, TAMU, I totally agree.

I turned off the TV and said, "It was a little closer than I would have liked, but we made progress tonight."

[brandx]

IMO, fairly different. If your friends son played D1, he had to stay for atleast 3 years per NCAA baseball rules:

"However, if players enroll at a four-year college, they must complete three years to regain eligibility, unless they reach age 21 before starting their third year of attendance."

I think he said his son had the choice to play D1 - not that he had played yet.

A player can sign with MLB out of high school. If he signs an LOI with a college, he can still sign with MLB.

It is only after he enrols in college that he must wait 3 years before signing with MLB (unless they are 21).

[WarriorPride68]

I think he said his son had the choice to play D1 - not that he had played yet.

A player can sign with MLB out of high school. If he signs an LOI with a college, he can still sign with MLB.

It is only after he enrols in college that he must wait 3 years before signing with MLB (unless they are 21).

He said he picked college and stayed in school. So the 3 year rule would be in place:

I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.

Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.

[bilsu]

The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do.  St Johns attempted 69 to our 52, Depaul out-shot us 57-42, and even in our win against Providence we were outshot 61-43. Against Xavier we took more shots, but the difference was Duane's ten three point attempts.  The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers.  Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity.  Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts).  That's a recipe for winning

Maybe Duane's theory was he should shoot it before we turned it over.

[MU82]

I saw that. I looked at the game tracker play by play. According to that it was a charge

The ref 35 feet away called a charge. It was a bad call.

This just in: "Ref blows charge/block call. First time ever!"

[Jay Bee]

The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do.  The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers.    Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity.Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts).  That's a recipe for winning

Unfortunately I find this patently false. "Consistenly" implies it's the norm. Opponents have attempted 118 more FG's than us. We've tried 131 more FT's.. if we assume 47.5% x 131 = we're talking 62 possessions, or more than half of the difference is due to us getting to the line - which is a great thing as a free throw trip represents a high-ppp...

MU's turnovers are essentially flat with their opponents this season. Defensive rebounding does play a role, but part of our issue (albeit we need better DR from everyone but the Ellenson brothers) in DR% is that it's diluted by the fact that our opponents don't go to the line a lot and do not miss a lot when they get there. Meanwhile, we get to the line a lot more a miss a bit more. The result is that there are more free throw miss opportunities for the other team than there are for us... and that's one way to raise your DR% without being especially good at DR%... roughly... a defense gets 85% of missed free throws by the other team... and 66% of missed field goals..

Despite being blown out a few times, MU still holds a .06 ppp advantage over its opponents this year.

Absolutely need to take an advantage in the area of turnovers and need to get better at rebounding.. but by itself, teams taking more shots than us isn't the major problem and over half of it is due to a good thing (us going to the line more often than the other team)...

[keefe]

I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.

Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.

The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.

So is your buddy's kid named John Elway or Drew Henson??

[martyconlonontherun]

I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.

Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.

The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.

From what stand point would it be wise to stay in college for two years? If the season ended today he would be a top ten pick and probably top 20 at worst. He's delaying two years up income to maybe move up five spots. I personally think you develop better at the NBA level since you have more experienced coaches, more games, and better resources.

ETA looney only averaged 12/10 and had a bad hip but was still picked at 30. I don't get where people don't think he is ready for the draft. Sure He might spend some time on the bench next year but he is good enough to be a top 15 pick.