Seton Hall thoughts

[bilsu]

The thing that stood out to me about Seton Hall was their hand quickness. Everyone of their players had quicker hands when it came to rebounding a ball that was not cleanly rebounded by someone. It was the first time I realized that Fischer is not quick to react to rebounds that do not come directly to him.

[#UnleashSean]

Saying they are a fringe NIT team after one awful half is an overreaction. That having been said - that was a totally inexcusable 20 minutes. Out-hustled the whole way and seemed like they gave up with 8 minutes to go. This is a crossroads - time for Wojo to show he can turn them around in a hurry - just like the Iowa game.

Don't forget that they clawed their way back into the lead after starting 11 in the hole. All the while not making a 3 and having their star player hit 1 FG.

I'm very disappointed - but still a believer that they can turn it around quickly. They've done it before.

I'd say there was 30 minutes of awfulness with 10 minutes of running Seton Hall out of the building in the middle.

[Goose]

Definitely a very disappointing performance from the boys tonight and hard to find silver lining. That said, I am much higher on this time and direction of program than I have been in two plus years. Of all the negatives tonight the biggest remains PG IMO. The head coach was an above average PG and I have confidence he will get that straightened out.

[BM1090]

We're overreacting just like we overreacted after Iowa. We have a young team. Nights like this are going to happen. It'll happen again this year too.

Let's see how we play against Georgetown on Saturday. We can win that game. If we come out flat and get rolled over, then maybe we have a problem. But I'm not going to freak out after one bad half.

[We R Final Four]

I am determined to not get overly negative, and I like to think this is only a fact-based observation and not a "rip" ...

The few folks who actually believe Luke can have an NBA career need to remember this game (and others like it) every time those thoughts creep into their minds. Luke has enough trouble dealing with the kind of bigs Seton Hall has.

And I like Luke a lot. I think he is a good college player with some potential to get even better. He simply does not have an NBA future -- and a house-full of NBA scouts witnessed that firsthand tonight.

They witnessed Henry struggle some, too, but Henry still grabbed 14 rebounds, had a couple of NBA-quality assists, handled the ball well and showed nice range (even if the shot didn't go in). Those who think NBA scouts watched Henry tonight and said, "No effen way!" don't know anything about what scouts look for. I doubt Henry's stock dropped even a fraction tonight.

Henrys stock won't drop regardless if he ever steps on the college court again.
Who, by the way, had these thoughts? I havent read one of them.

[Doo]

What we miss the most is the toughness that was instilled by Buzz.

Absolutely, this team lacks toughest & drive and in my opinion that falls on the coach. Whether it's an inability to instill it or recruiting players incapable of it, the lack of a will to win falls on the coaching staff.

[Mutaman]

I am determined to not get overly negative, and I like to think this is only a fact-based observation and not a "rip" ...

The few folks who actually believe Luke can have an NBA career need to remember this game (and others like it) every time those thoughts creep into their minds. Luke has enough trouble dealing with the kind of bigs Seton Hall has.

And I like Luke a lot. I think he is a good college player with some potential to get even better. He simply does not have an NBA future -- and a house-full of NBA scouts witnessed that firsthand tonight.

They witnessed Henry struggle some, too, but Henry still grabbed 14 rebounds, had a couple of NBA-quality assists, handled the ball well and showed nice range (even if the shot didn't go in). Those who think NBA scouts watched Henry tonight and said, "No effen way!" don't know anything about what scouts look for. I doubt Henry's stock dropped even a fraction tonight.

1. Whoever said Luke had an NBA career? And if he doesn't, so what?

2. Not sure why Fisher is getting the brunt of the complaints here.  12 points, 9 rebounds, 6 of 11 shooting.On the other hand- Henry: 3 for 14, Duane: 0 -4 from 3, Haanif and Sandy: o rebounds between them.

[naginiF]

The thing that stood out to me about Seton Hall was their hand quickness. Everyone of their players had quicker hands when it came to rebounding a ball that was not cleanly rebounded by someone.

agree.......what scares me is that, in the games i've seen, Butler has MUCH quicker hands.

[bilsu]

1. Whoever said Luke had an NBA career? And if he doesn't, so what?

2. Not sure why Fisher is getting the brunt of the complaints here.  12 points, 9 rebounds, 6 of 11 shooting.On the other hand- Henry: 3 for 14, Duane: 0 -4 from 3, Haanif and Sandy: o rebounds between them.

I thought Delgado did an excellant job on Fischer. There were several times in the second half where Fischer backed him down and missed the shot. Delgado played great defense without fouling.

[keefe]

I love coming here after a loss. Fact is, they are playing to form. Some nights they will thrill and other times they will frustrate.

This is a very young team so it is overly ambitious to expect consistent excellence. Also, because they do have talent it is unreasonable to expect persistent failure.

Enjoy the ride gents. This is like golf - find the beauty and overlook the hooks and slices. You'll appreciate it better.

[forgetful]

I am determined to not get overly negative, and I like to think this is only a fact-based observation and not a "rip" ...

The few folks who actually believe Luke can have an NBA career need to remember this game (and others like it) every time those thoughts creep into their minds. Luke has enough trouble dealing with the kind of bigs Seton Hall has.

And I like Luke a lot. I think he is a good college player with some potential to get even better. He simply does not have an NBA future -- and a house-full of NBA scouts witnessed that firsthand tonight.

They witnessed Henry struggle some, too, but Henry still grabbed 14 rebounds, had a couple of NBA-quality assists, handled the ball well and showed nice range (even if the shot didn't go in). Those who think NBA scouts watched Henry tonight and said, "No effen way!" don't know anything about what scouts look for. I doubt Henry's stock dropped even a fraction tonight.

The bolded is spot on.  I am overly harsh on Luke, but that is because I think he can be a lot better.  He is not strong in the paint right now and is not a "fighter".  I mean the latter in the Crowder type of way.  He plays basketball by the book.  We need a fighter in the paint not a tactician. 

His rebounds are area rebounds where he boxes out.  Damn near could let it bounce 5 times.  But he won't fight for a contested rebound. 

We need Luke to develop a mean streak.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I disagree.

Well, we'll just agree to disagree.  People like Laettner were absolute sunsofbitches nasty and physical.  Wojo no different, Hurley, etc.  MJ, Tim Duncan, Battier, Worthy, Bias, David Thompson....etc.

I guess the one question I would have for you, do you think Wojo was tough?  Do you think the Duke program that Coach K puts out there is not tough? I sure do, and he will demand that tough as nails approach with his teams.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Henrys stock won't drop regardless if he ever steps on the college court again.
Who, by the way, had these thoughts? I havent read one of them.

Disagree strongly with this statement.  If his stock isn't capable of dropping, then NBA teams wouldn't be sending 25 scouts to games.  Of course stock can drop and rise, unless I'm completely misreading your statement.

[MilWarrior]

I love coming here after a loss. Fact is, they are playing to form. Some nights they will thrill and other times they will frustrate.

This is a very young team so it is overly ambitious to expect consistent excellence. Also, because they do have talent it is unreasonable to expect persistent failure.

Enjoy the ride gents. This is like golf - find the beauty and overlook the hooks and slices. You'll appreciate it better.

Well said

[79Warrior]

Well, we'll just agree to disagree.  People like Laettner were absolute sunsofbitches nasty and physical.  Wojo no different, Hurley, etc.  MJ, Tim Duncan, Battier, Worthy, Bias, David Thompson....etc.

I guess the one question I would have for you, do you think Wojo was tough?  Do you think the Duke program that Coach K puts out there is not tough? I sure do, and he will demand that tough as nails approach with his teams.

Completely agree with you.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That was a tough game to watch. Hard to find many positives. But the team that we saw tonight was not the team we will see the rest of the season.

Keefe said it much better than I ever could, but here's my best attempt.

The team we saw in the first half was a little below what the average performance of this team should reasonably be. The 2nd half was this teams floor. I don't think they will ever go lower. We didn't get to see this team teach their ceiling during this game.

I wouldn't be surprised if we blew out Georgetown and then beat providence. I also wouldn't be surprised if we started 0-3. This team is young and what we get will be a nightly surprise but a joy to watch.

[Mutaman]

The bolded is spot on.  I am overly harsh on Luke, but that is because I think he can be a lot better.  He is not strong in the paint right now and is not a "fighter".  I mean the latter in the Crowder type of way.  He plays basketball by the book.  We need a fighter in the paint not a tactician. 

He's not a "Crowder type". He 's not the same as a former Big East player of the year and a guy who averages 14 point per game for the Celtics?    I'm happy he's a Luke Fisher  type. And no rational person believes he will have an NBA career so forget that straw man.

[dgies9156]

The other day I noted that we're going to win some we shouldn't win and lose some we should not lose.

What I can't figure out is what happened in the second half. I didn't see the game so I don't know. But if you put up 40 points and play your opponent even in the first half, something very different happened in the second half.

Did they change defenses? Did they shoot the lights out? Did they get tougher on us? I just really don't know but to have the drop-off we did in the second half after playing them even in the first is very disappointing. I've seen the reports from a Marquette perspective, but I would be curious if Seton Hall did anything we weren't ready for?

Well, lets see where things take us.

[Da 'Lanche]

He's not a "Crowder type". He 's not the same as a former Big East player of the year and a guy who averages 14 point per game for the Celtics?    I'm happy he's a Luke Fisher  type. And no rational person believes he will have an NBA career so forget that straw man.

Luke is the  most talented true Center we have had in many years.    Sorry he is not Shaq, but he is the best we have had in a long time and he is a tremendous asset on the court.   People make it sound like he would lose a pillow fight to a kitten.     He has lots of room for improvement and is still developing but that does not diminish the impact he is having on the program and team.   Count me as a fan.

[vogue65]

The problem was that we stuck to the game plan and waited for Seton Hall to revert to form.  Seton Hall adjusted their game plan at half time and blew by us.  Some times the theory of large numbers does not work, it does not work when you don't have enough numbers.  I think we did not have a good handle on what Seton Hall had going for them and did not adjust. 

A lot of us, WoJo included, seem to think it is all about toughness and maturity, I think that is only part of it.   First things first, so first we have to get "mature" then we can gather smart.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Worst offensive efficiency game of the year.  Haanif saved the first half but the Hall focused on him with the halftime adjustments.  Not a bad defensive effort in space. 

That said, Wojo has built a finesse team for the Big East.  MU doesn't have a banger on the team to protect Henry and Luke. So, our guards need to rebound and grab the 50/50 balls in the Big East, plain and simple.  I said this early in the year:  MU is not a good rebounding team.

Lastly, Duane needs to start at PG.  This team turns it over way too much.

[We R Final Four]

Disagree strongly with this statement.  If his stock isn't capable of dropping, then NBA teams wouldn't be sending 25 scouts to games.  Of course stock can drop and rise, unless I'm completely misreading your statement.

They witnessed Henry struggle some, too, but Henry still grabbed 14 rebounds, had a couple of NBA-quality assists, handled the ball well and showed nice range (even if the shot didn't go in). Those who think NBA scouts watched Henry tonight and said, "No effen way!" don't know anything about what scouts look for. I doubt Henry's stock dropped even a fraction tonight.

I was responding to the quote above form '82.
My point was HE's stat line will have little effect on his draft status.  As 82 said, HE did not shoot the ball well last night.  Will have zero effect on his draft status.

[GGGG]

Lastly, Duane needs to start at PG.  This team turns it over way too much.

They did that to start the second half and he took a number of poor shots.  Maybe his mindset will be different if they give him the point from the outset, but they just wasted 6 months where they could have had him run the point to start with.

[tower912]

The morning after:   I have been less optimistic than most about this team.   All along, I have worried about PG play, who the third big would be, leadership, lack of experience, etc.   Last night was 30 minutes of uninspired play, and 10 minutes of Haanif going off.   However, from a big picture perspective, it was not that much different than I expected.    There will be highs, there will be more lows. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

They did that to start the second half and he took a number of poor shots.  Maybe his mindset will be different if they give him the point from the outset, but they just wasted 6 months where they could have had him run the point to start with.

Haanif was at point, no?