Wojo's Leash

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guarantee Coach Pitino or Izzo would have our current  team playing at a very high level. Look at Coach Izzo last year , he took a team only slightly more talented than ours to the final four.

That's an impossible assertion to prove. Coach Pitino and Izzo haven't had to work with a team of our talent level in years if ever. You are vastly overestimating our talent at this moment.

Look at Coach Izzo last year , he took a team only slightly more talented than ours to the final four.

??? Last year's Michigan State squad would be our current team 9 out of every 10 games. Nowhere near the same level of talent.

[Jay Bee]

Can you explain what that means?

Experience, weighted for minutes played. i.e., you may have a couple of frosh who never play.. so what? Who is in your rotation?

Why give Matt Heldt the same weight as Henry Ellenson?

[MomofMUltiples]

I said in my post "it's less coaching and more superior talent"...Meaning not blaming Wojo. My point is maybe we are not as athletically talented as the elite and if not than 3 point shooting is key to overcoming that.  Please read my post again and tell me what are you drinking - I need some of that to get numb

OK, so our coach of two years managed to pull in the highest rated recruit we've had since Doc Rivers and a few other guys who show promise, and his ONE recruit from last year has made great strides over the summer, and you are all kvetching because the first couple games have looked sloppy and disorganized.  If we look the same in February, I might be with you. But for now, Wojo and every player gets my benefit of the doubt.

Must be my 50+ years as a Minnesota sports fan. We put up with a lot on the belief that this is the year we're gonna win the big one (how about them Vikes?).  No alcohol needed, we're perpetually numb.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Experience, weighted for minutes played. i.e., you may have a couple of frosh who never play.. so what? Who is in your rotation?

Why give Matt Heldt the same weight as Henry Ellenson?

Makes sense. Thank you

[GGGG]

I guarantee Coach Pitino or Izzo would have our current  team playing at a very high level. Look at Coach Izzo last year , he took a team only slightly more talented than ours to the final four. The biggest disappointment is the defense. Considering Coach Wojos background I thought that would be our strength .

Beat Iowa and all is forgiven .....for a while at least

Yes you are correct. Wojo isn't as good as Izzo or Pitino.

[mu03eng]

This feels a little like a Ners thread.  Not sure why we can't just enjoy the ride for a little while

[Cooby Snacks]

Can you explain what that means?

It's a calculation based on players' year of eligibility and how many minutes they play. For MU, our raw figure is a little bit inflated because Luke and Wally count as juniors despite the fact that Luke missed about a full season due to his midyear transfer and Wally played like 8 games at Minnesota. Relative to other teams, it probably balances out since there are tons of players who have had similar circumstances.

[rocky_warrior]

This thread is ridiculous.

But will probably be fun to refer back to in March

[Eldon]

Did he go after many jobs prior to Marquette?  I was under the impression that he did not.

Not sure about Wojo doing the pursuing, but I do remember Wojo saying that several (many?) programs wanted him throughout his tenure on the Duke bench.  I remember him saying that he wanted the "right program" and Marquette "felt right." (not exact quotes).

Now, maybe that simply means that only the likes of Chicago State and New Hampshire were coming around so MU was the first legit school to show him some interest.

[Herman Cain]

That's an impossible assertion to prove. Coach Pitino and Izzo haven't had to work with a team of our talent level in years if ever. You are vastly overestimating our talent at this moment.

??? Last year's Michigan State squad would be our current team 9 out of every 10 games. Nowhere near the same level of talent.

Michigan State generally has one or two good players surrounded by a bunch of  role players. Izzo rarely goes after big recruits. Go back and look at some of the recent years, they have had guys like Austin Thornton who were even worse than Jake.  Go back a few years and they had teams anchored by guys like Drew Neitzel and a whole bunch of stiffs, and still managed to get a couple rounds into the tournament. They win through great coaching. Izzo will never accept two bad years in a row.

Our last year team pre Luke, which is far weaker  than this years team gave the Spartans a helluva fight.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400608906


Louisville is basically the same thing. Coach gets max production out of all the kids on team. Talent level not that great. Our 2011-12 team had more talent then them for example.

My point is a good coach could take our talent and do something constructive with it. Our objective is to have a winning season now.

Beat Iowa.

 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's a calculation based on players' year of eligibility and how many minutes they play. For MU, our raw figure is a little bit inflated because Luke and Wally count as juniors despite the fact that Luke missed about a full season due to his midyear transfer and Wally played like 8 games at Minnesota. Relative to other teams, it probably balances out since there are tons of players who have had similar circumstances.

So it doesn't actually take games played into account? It just uses academic year?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Michigan State generally has one or two good players surrounded by a bunch of  role players. Izzo rarely goes after big recruits. Go back and look at some of the recent years, they have had guys like Austin Thornton who were even worse than Jake.  Go back a few years and they had teams anchored by guys like Drew Neitzel and a whole bunch of stiffs, and still managed to get a couple rounds into the tournament. They win through great coaching. Izzo will never accept two bad years in a row.

Our last year team pre Luke, which is far weaker  than this years team gave the Spartans a helluva fight.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400608906


Louisville is basically the same thing. Coach gets max production out of all the kids on team. Talent level not that great. Our 2011-12 team had more talent then them for example.

My point is a good coach could take our talent and do something constructive with it. Our objective is to have a winning season now.

Beat Iowa.

So is your assertion based on high school recruiting rankings? Am I understanding this correctly?

[dgies9156]

I never cease to be amazed at the level of stupidity of some posts on Scoop. This topic is one of them.

Look, I'm a perpetual optimist and even I didn't think we were going to be a Top 5 school with a 1 or 2 seed and a legitimate shot at a national title. But if I read some of these posts in here, there is utter disgust that we have growing pains and that our freshman-laden team isn't 2-0, heavily favored against Iowa and ranked.

Here's the facts:
   a) The Hillbilly screwed us.
   b) Coach Wojo recruited a fine class of freshmen that has considerable promise.
   c) He's trying out different things because we need to know what works when we get to conference play.
   d) We're making mistakes. He's making mistakes. He'll correct them.

If you go back to our greatest moments, it took Al some time to build what he had here. He joined us for 1964-1965 and promptly had a crappy year, kinda like 2014-2015. Things got better and eventually -- 13 years later -- we won a national title. Don't think for a moment you youngsters that there was not considerable consternation along the way. Missed free throws, bad out-of-bounds plays, questionable officiating, NCAA bias and, yes, double technicals all were part of our lore.

It has been noted before that God only knows what would have happened if Scoop existed when Al was head coach here. Yikes!

Be patient folks. I promise Wojo will make more mistakes. I promise our freshmen will look like, well, freshmen. We're not Duke (yet) and Coach Wojo is not Coach K (yet). Give him time. He deserves the same chance Al got.

[Pakuni]

Other tourney teams last year at 330+ effective experience (far less than MU's 275):
UAB #345

Began last year 1-3, with losses to Louisiana-Monroe, South Florida and UNC-Pembroke (who?).

Kansas #338 - a #2 seed

Four McDonald's AAs, including three 5-star freshmen.
Like Kentucky, not remotely comparable to what MU has this year

It's Indiana!, It's Indiana! #336

Lost November game at home to Eastern Washington.
Twice as many McDonald's AAs as MU.

Duke #331, national champions

Seriously?
Four incoming freshman McDonald's AAs, eight overall, three first-round draft picks.
You don't really think this is a reasonable comparison, right?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

and UNC-Pembroke (who?).

Tribal college in Pembroke, North Carolina. Part of the UNC system. One of the few schools to qualify for the NCAA's tribal college exemption for Native American themed mascots. Their mascot is the Braves

[brandx]

I have read every post, including about 20 after this one, and you have best captured my feelings.

It's such silliness, it doesn't deserve serious comments.

I couldn't have said it better, 82.

[brandx]

Michigan State generally has one or two good players surrounded by a bunch of  role players. Izzo rarely goes after big recruits. Go back and look at some of the recent years, they have had guys like Austin Thornton who were even worse than Jake.  Go back a few years and they had teams anchored by guys like Drew Neitzel and a whole bunch of stiffs, and still managed to get a couple rounds into the tournament. They win through great coaching. Izzo will never accept two bad years in a row.


Louisville is basically the same thing. Coach gets max production out of all the kids on team. Talent level not that great. Our 2011-12 team had more talent then them for example.

My point is a good coach could take our talent and do something constructive with it. Our objective is to have a winning season now.

This is so ridiculous, I don't know why I answer, but....

Anyone who thinks our talent is as good this year as Michigan State last year has never watched college basketball. Valentine, Trice, and Dawson were all better -far better - than anyone on this MU team. And they had a ton of experience playing together. One of those stiffs just threw up a triple-double against Kansas tonite. Time to fire Self for not being able to design the right defense.

And Louisville just had two guys drafted by the NBA off of their no-talent team.

The experience level between us and MSU/UL  - well, again, no comparison.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Holy sweet Jesus....

[MU Buff]

Not sure about Wojo doing the pursuing, but I do remember Wojo saying that several (many?) programs wanted him throughout his tenure on the Duke bench.  I remember him saying that he wanted the "right program" and Marquette "felt right." (not exact quotes).

Now, maybe that simply means that only the likes of Chicago State and New Hampshire were coming around so MU was the first legit school to show him some interest.

I remember reading in multiple articles last year that Wojo turned down the Dayton job in 2011. That was the biggest head coaching job I remember him being linked to.

[GGGG]

Michigan State generally has one or two good players surrounded by a bunch of  role players. Izzo rarely goes after big recruits. Go back and look at some of the recent years, they have had guys like Austin Thornton who were even worse than Jake.  Go back a few years and they had teams anchored by guys like Drew Neitzel and a whole bunch of stiffs, and still managed to get a couple rounds into the tournament. They win through great coaching. Izzo will never accept two bad years in a row.

Our last year team pre Luke, which is far weaker  than this years team gave the Spartans a helluva fight.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400608906


Louisville is basically the same thing. Coach gets max production out of all the kids on team. Talent level not that great. Our 2011-12 team had more talent then them for example.

My point is a good coach could take our talent and do something constructive with it. Our objective is to have a winning season now.

Beat Iowa.

If your standard is that Wojo, in his second year as a head coach, isn't up to par with two Hall of Fame coaches then your standards are too high.

[tower912]

I continue to find this whole notion laughable.   Let's review:
1.  A top 10 class.   Not a transcendent #1 class like Duke or Kentucky.   A good class to be sure, and a good starting point, but not a world changer.
2.  Combined with 4 players off of a bad team.    And a transfer that wasn't really missed by his former school.
3.  A first time head coach. 

Wojo is bringing in the types of young men that the MU administration wants.   He is being a positive face of the program and projects an image of long-term stability and growth.    He has no leash right now.    To speak seriously of a leash 35 games into his coaching career is just entitled, no patience, myopic fan speak.    Granted, that is the nature of sports society today.    Be the change you want to see.   Don't buy in. 

[mu_hilltopper]

I imagine the point that's trying to be made here is ..

In terms of under/over-performing, Wojo is not over-performing.  At best, the grade is "incomplete" .. at worst, under-performing.    Lock the thread, come back in 10 weeks ..

[Galway Eagle]

I vote we get ners on here for his opinion

[DienerTime34]

If Marquette finishes below .500 this year, would you put Wojo on the hot seat? How about if we are .500 or below after Year 3?

[Earl Tatum]

Give Wojo a chance. Like aforementioned, we need to know what works for conference. Iowa
should make a good test. Wish Foscher would get the ball more. I did mention before Wojo came,
that ARCHIE MILLER would be a great addition.Still have my Wojo Warrior T-shirt.