First Female Rangers

[tower912]

I know that only a junior high school student who had done extensive weight training could get through ours.    All upper body and wind.   

[warriorchick]

Not sure what that last comment means, but I know that a junior high kid could pass the Physical test the Chicago FD puts you though.

Well, of course.  How else do you make sure that the kids of the aldermen's "friends" get hired on?

[tower912]

BTW, congratulations to the courageous young women who are now Rangers.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

All upper body and wind.

Sounds like a girl I once dated.

[keefe]

Sounds like a girl I once dated.

Big, healthy lungs or incredible flatulence?

[Spotcheck Billy]

In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards?    Must be a California thing.   On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame.    It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.   
  My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having  white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list.   Those got tossed by 1991.    Since 1991, there has been one list.   
   Roughly 1200 people take the test every time.    To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60.     If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks.   If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class.   Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports.   The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.   

PRN, I know better. 

I took the exams for firefighter back in 1989 in Richfield, MN. When they told us the minimum passing score was = to the worst score of their existing FF we know it was BS. There were some pretty out of shape fat FF among the ones testing us, no way did they all pass that test or if they did they didn't have to perform every test back-to-back on the same day.

[tower912]

The different standards are interesting.   I know ours is a timed agility test, all tasks fire related, done wearing fire gear, and pass/fail.  10:00 limit. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

nm

[MU82]

Because he wants to make a political point...like always.

Exactly. In the post about those American heroes who subdued that guy on the train in France -- http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=48384.0;all --  Chicos' reaction was:

"You watch, the marines will get in trouble for doing this somehow."

He can't help himself. He loves to argue, and if nobody is arguing, he'll start the argument so that others will feel compelled to argue. He loves his own voice.

Yiddish talkers would call him a classic "nudnik."

[keefe]

Something that is not being said is that the qualification standard is the bare minimum expectation. In fact, you should be far exceeding the mins if you hope to earn your TACP cert of Ranger Tab.

Both the TACP PAST and the Ranger Q Course require you do 50 situps and pushups but everyone I know was able to pound out well over 100 in the allotted time. I think the minimum number of pullups is 6 but everyone was exceeding 20. And the run was to maintain an 8 minute pace over 5 miles; in fact, we were expected to run closer to a 5:15 pace for the 5. 

There are quals for weapons handling, land nav, and various dimensions of leadership. The reality is that just meeting the minimum standards won't get you through the course. It is not just about physical strength and endurance.

The Ranger Syllabus is all about Imposed Stress. In addition to those baseline minimum physical strength standards the course is two months of physical and mental exertion designed to push you to your limits - not meet the minimums. The washout rate is about 60% and that is of the people who finally get into the school house - far more never get the privilege of attending.

Ranger training is 61 days of getting no more than 4 hours of sleep a day (usually no more than 1-2) while marching around with 60-90 pounds on your back. You are burning 15,000 calories a day while living on 2,200.

Perhaps the most critical evaluations are the 6-10 graded leadership positions you assume during the course and, at the end of each phase, everyone does a peer eval on every member of the team. These are the most important in many ways - not the least of which is that your fellow Spec Ops Warriors are saying whether or not they want to serve with you.

The objective of the Ranger Course is simple: to train small unit special warfare combat leaders who have the necessary physical and mental toughness to complete any assigned mission according to the Warrior Ethos.

The conversation here has been around the minimum physical standards. That isn't the core of Ranger training. It is about far exceeding both those physical and mental obstacles and provide leadership for highly motivated Rangers, SEALS, TACPs, and Force Recon warriors who demand the very best in everyone they serve with.

Chico insinuates the standards were lowered to accommodate those two women. All that suggests is he does not understand the core principles involved in developing Spec Ops warriors. Those women exceeded every challenge thrown at them and , most importantly, their leadership was assessed as exceptional bu the Tab-wearing cadre as well as their fellow troops who said, "I will serve with you anytime, anywhere" when they filled out their peer evals.

Getting your Ranger Tab isn't like rushing Sigma Chi. It is one of the most demanding tests of the human spirit. Those women earned the right to wear their Tabs. People who insinuate the women were 'passed through' do not understand the Warrior Ethos.     

[MU82]

Something that is not being said is that the qualification standard is the bare minimum expectation. In fact, you should be far exceeding the mins if you hope to earn your TACP cert of Ranger Tab.

Both the TACP PAST and the Ranger Q Course require you do 50 situps and pushups but everyone I know was able to pound out well over 100 in the allotted time. I think the minimum number of pullups is 6 but everyone was exceeding 20. And the run was to maintain an 8 minute pace over 5 miles; in fact, we were expected to run closer to a 5:15 pace for the 5. 

There are quals for weapons handling, land nav, and various dimensions of leadership. The reality is that just meeting the minimum standards won't get you through the course. It is not just about physical strength and endurance.

The Ranger Syllabus is all about Imposed Stress. In addition to those baseline minimum physical strength standards the course is two months of physical and mental exertion designed to push you to your limits - not meet the minimums. The washout rate is about 60% and that is of the people who finally get into the school house - far more never get the privilege of attending.

Ranger training is 61 days of getting no more than 4 hours of sleep a day (usually no more than 1-2) while marching around with 60-90 pounds on your back. You are burning 15,000 calories a day while living on 2,200.

Perhaps the most critical evaluations are the 6-10 graded leadership positions you assume during the course and, at the end of each phase, everyone does a peer eval on every member of the team. These are the most important in many ways - not the least of which is that your fellow Spec Ops Warriors are saying whether or not they want to serve with you.

The objective of the Ranger Course is simple: to train small unit special warfare combat leaders who have the necessary physical and mental toughness to complete any assigned mission according to the Warrior Ethos.

The conversation here has been around the minimum physical standards. That isn't the core of Ranger training. It is about far exceeding both those physical and mental obstacles and provide leadership for highly motivated Rangers, SEALS, TACPs, and Force Recon warriors who demand the very best in everyone they serve with.

Chico insinuates the standards were lowered to accommodate those two women. All that suggests is he does not understand the core principles involved in developing Spec Ops warriors. Those women exceeded every challenge thrown at them and , most importantly, their leadership was assessed as exceptional bu the Tab-wearing cadre as well as their fellow troops who said, "I will serve with you anytime, anywhere" when they filled out their peer evals.

Getting your Ranger Tab isn't like rushing Sigma Chi. It is one of the most demanding tests of the human spirit. Those women earned the right to wear their Tabs. People who insinuate the women were 'passed through' do not understand the Warrior Ethos.   

It's great to have you on our board to explain this stuff, Crash.

[Blackhat]

I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger.   I imagine sex would happen.

[keefe]

I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger.   I imagine sex would happen.

I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...

[Pakuni]

I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger.   I imagine sex would happen.

Key word being "imagine?"

[Blackhat]

I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...

Wind blows the right direction,  I'll be up for anything.  Might make the internet too.

[4everwarriors]

Key word bein' "up," ai na?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...

That's ZFB's strategy if I ever end up in the slammer.  Plus forgetting how to wipe my ass.

[warriorchick]

I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger.   I imagine sex would happen.

That's exactly what what would happen. You imagining sex, not actually having it.

[Warrior Code]

The different standards are interesting.   I know ours is a timed agility test, all tasks fire related, done wearing fire gear, and pass/fail.  10:00 limit.

CPAT, I presume?

[tower912]

Similar.   Not identical.    Hose drag, dummy drag, ladder throw, hose carry up 4 flights of stairs, pulling up more hose via a rope, 25 reps of pulling down a weighted pole, carrying 3 pieces of equipment down and back with a 4 step riser in the middle.    Two :30 stops for rest.   Must be done in under 10:00.    Pass/fail.   06:30 counts the same as 09:59.   No gender distinction.   Our version has been unchanged for the last 35 years.   

[Warrior Code]

Do you like that it's pass/fall? I don't. I recently took a CPAT. The guy in front of me barely made it and collapsed to the ground exhausted when he was done. I could have run it again and still beat him. We both got a "pass" and thus were considered equal, when in fact I could have done a much larger volume of work then he could. You have a lot more experience with it than I do - what do you think of that aspect?

[tower912]

 I did mine in around 08:30, but I was conversing with the evaluator while carrying the 3 objects and really wasn't pushing myself.     I've seen hardbodies who were gassed 5 minutes into a fire because they couldn't control their breathing or their thinking. I've seen guys 100 lbs overweight work for hours without a break, because they understand their body and their task.   

I want co-workers who understand the task, know their job, are well trained, and can keep an even keel as we do the voodoo we do.      Their times mean nothing to me.    It is a number you meet in order to gain entrance 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I see that Kris Griest has already been added to my kids high school Wikipedia page under Famous Alumni .

[keefe]

There will be one standard and if you pass you pass. 

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.

Navy

I was talking with a TACP brudda this weekend and we got to discussing the differences between BUDS and Ranger School.

BUDS is a 60 day course with nights and weekends off. In week 5 the SEAL wannabes are only allowed one hour of sleep a night for 5.5 days but they are fed like horses with three hot squares a day. At the end of "Hell Week" the remaining SEALs are given a pizza party.

Ranger Training is 61 days of no sleep, no food, and no time off.

But SEALs are tougher...I guess that's from all the movies they make!!

Aim High!

[mu03eng]

Navy

I was talking with a TACP brudda this weekend and we got to discussing the differences between BUDS and Ranger School.

BUDS is a 60 day course with nights and weekends off. In week 5 the SEAL wannabes are only allowed one hour of sleep a night for 5.5 days but they are fed like horses with three hot squares a day. At the end of "Hell Week" the remaining SEALs are given a pizza party.

Ranger Training is 61 days of no sleep, no food, and no time off.

But SEALs are tougher...I guess that's from all the movies they make!!

Aim High!

Having never gone through either program I can't even begin to make an argument either way so I will take the road never traveled on the internet and not comment on things I know nothing about    Though I do believe BUD/S is a 24 week course