2015-16 NFC North/NFL thread

[ChicosBailBonds]

What really don't understand is why anyone would pay money, let alone go to a game and sit up there.

I don't like going when I get the really good seats.  Football is made for TV, not worth the nonsense at the game.  Too much downtime and boredom.

[MU B2002]

Vikings!!!     Super Bowl!!!!


                    

What an odd game.  Zimmer/Turner seemed to try a bit to hard to get Teddy going. Lots of mistakes.  Hyde looked great.  AP standing on the sideline for so long without his helmet made me wonder if he got hurt.


Also, 49er alternate unis were hot garbage.

Question, does the NFL allow an alternate helmet?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Question, does the NFL allow an alternate helmet?

Only if you simply remove the logo.  The NFL wants players to have one perfectly fit helmet so I believe that precludes different helmets.

[MerrittsMustache]

Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team.  There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off.  Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.

Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind).  The opposite is also true.  Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).

In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.

So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse.  In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.  The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).

And this coming from a Packer fan.

Pretty solid points all the way around.

As much as Bears' fans tried to embrace the benching of Jay with Jimmy Clausen being given a start late last season, it was VERY obvious to anyone who watched that game that Clausen is not in the same class as Cutler. Say what you want about him, but Cutler is a legit NFL starter and most QBs currently on NFL rosters are not.

The Bears couldn't move Cutler because of his salary, not because of his play. Take his contract out of the equation and there'd be at least 6-8 teams on the phone within Halas Hall as soon as he's put on the block. Unfortunately, his payment-vs-production ratio isn't up to snuff.

[DegenerateDish]

The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring. They need to be really really bad for a couple of years, and hope that Pace is competent enough to draft, unlike the last few regimes. They are no where near close to contending for a Super Bowl, not any time soon. They can't catch up from years of terrible drafting and make up for it in one or two years. I'm not even talking about star players in the draft, the Bears have almost no 2nd/3rd round picks that they drafted on their roster, it's sad.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I think I read the Bears only have 14 players still with the team since the 2014 season, a lot of turnover in their roster lately.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-09-15/adrian-peterson-child-abuse-nfl-week-1-minnesota-vikings-san-francisco-49ers

[MerrittsMustache]

The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring. They need to be really really bad for a couple of years, and hope that Pace is competent enough to draft, unlike the last few regimes. They are no where near close to contending for a Super Bowl, not any time soon. They can't catch up from years of terrible drafting and make up for it in one or two years. I'm not even talking about star players in the draft, the Bears have almost no 2nd/3rd round picks that they drafted on their roster, it's sad.

I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.

The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance 

Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.

[wadesworld]

I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.

The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance 

Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.

How can you return somewhere if you've never been there? 

[jesmu84]

I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.

The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance 

Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/matt-forte-and-matt-slauson-basically-say-what-we-already-knew-last-years-team-quit-and-hated-the-entire-coaching-staff/

[wadesworld]

...and the middle of the Packers defense/Packer's run defense gets even softer.  Barrington out for the year.  One more time...you cannot completely choke away championships like the Packers did, even more so in football than in any other sport.

[brandx]

The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring.

Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.

But, I disagree with you about the Fox hiring. Job #1 is to change the entire culture of the team and Fox is one of only a handful of guys who can do that.

Getting the QB of the future #2. Jay will never be the guy. Arm strength is irrelevant. It's all about the head and Jay will never make the grade in that category.

Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc There is no question who the leader is. Jay will never, ever be that guy.

[MerrittsMustache]

Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.

If there was anyone willing to take him and his contract, they would have moved him.

[MU82]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/matt-forte-and-matt-slauson-basically-say-what-we-already-knew-last-years-team-quit-and-hated-the-entire-coaching-staff/

Frankly, that's at least as big an indictment of Forte, Slauson and the rest of the players as it is the former coaching staff.

There's no "i" in "quit," fellas.

[DegenerateDish]

Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.

But, I disagree with you about the Fox hiring. Job #1 is to change the entire culture of the team and Fox is one of only a handful of guys who can do that.

Getting the QB of the future #2. Jay will never be the guy. Arm strength is irrelevant. It's all about the head and Jay will never make the grade in that category.

Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc There is no question who the leader is. Jay will never, ever be that guy.

Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.

[MerrittsMustache]

How can you return somewhere if you've never been there? 

The Bears dominated the 30s and 40s!   

[NavinRJohnson]

Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc

Therein lies the problem for the Bears (and many other teams). Who exactly is etc? You could probably throw Flacco, Romo and Wilson on that list, maybe Eli and Matt Ryan., and with these guys I'm beginning to reach. After that, it's a whole lotta not good, and seemingly getting worse every year, at the same time the guys on that list continue to get older and worse. It's looking like Peyton could come off the list today. Rothlesberger, Brees not far behind. The QB talent pool is shrinking, not getting bigger.

I don't think it is necessarily the lock everyone seems to think it is that Cutler is gonna be gone soon. We see more and more every year that these guys don't grow on trees, and despite all of his warts, the altnatives could be no better and easily worse.

[NavinRJohnson]

Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.

Great thought, but per post a minute ago, who is that going to be? For that matter, who was the last one? Luck and Wilson obviously come to mind, but and how long ago was that already?

More recently, I liked Marriotta coming out (reminded me a little of Rodgers), but definitely  have my doubts. Time will tell, but I wouldn't be betting on him being anything special.

Stud QBs are as rare as they've ever been, and getting more rare every year.

[GGGG]

Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.

Since the year 2000, there have only been two quarterbacks drafted in the top ten picks who have won Super Bowls. Payton and Eli Manning.

You can get good quarterbacks late in the first round. Even in later rounds. The problem is that the batting average on quarterbacks is just awful.

[brandx]

Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.

I don't think they do, Dish. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Romo, Montana, Wilson, etc. were not early picks. As a matter of fact, only Aaron went in the 1st round.

Maybe the difference is more about who is coaching these guys. Or even more, what is in the heads of these guys even before being drafted. None of the guys I mentioned were considered "big-arm" guys. But, those are the ones that enamor scouts. They are more impressed by the arms of Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Matthew Stafford, or Jay because they can rifle a ball down field than they are in the thought process of a Rodgers or Brady or Wilson or the competitive fire that drives them.

[brandx]

I don't think it is necessarily the lock everyone seems to think it is that Cutler is gonna be gone soon. We see more and more every year that these guys don't grow on trees, and despite all of his warts, the altnatives could be no better and easily worse.

I agree that it's not a lock that Jay is gone after this year.

I disagree that the alternatives are worse. The worst thing is to be mediocre year after year (and Jay is the absolute definition of mediocrity), and then to decide you will continue on that same course.

[wadesworld]

I'm just looking forward to Hundley being the next Packers quarterback to force a guy who's being talked about as the greatest QB ever out of GB, ai'na?

[wadesworld]

PS, where's BeeJay been?  Too much

last night?

[Spotcheck Billy]

Frankly, that's at least as big an indictment of Forte, Slauson and the rest of the players as it is the former coaching staff.

There's no "i" in "quit," fellas.

speaking of..

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm just looking forward to Hundley being the next Packers quarterback to force a guy who's being talked about as the greatest QB ever out of GB, ai'na?

I was actually hoping the Bears would take Hundley but when all the "experts" picked apart his game, you could say that I cooled on him a little. As soon as GB drafted him my first thought was, "I was right! He's going to be good! S---!"