2015-16 NFC North/NFL thread

[MU B2002]

Duh hell are you talkin about?!?!?!

Exactly.

[wadesworld]

Duh hell are you talkin about?!?!?!

I'm talking about people getting overly excited about football teams that have average quarterbacks.  Yes, Alex Smith is great...compared to what he was early in his career.  But he is still an average quarterback.  Yes, Teddy Bridgewater is great...for a 2nd year quarterback and for a Minnesota Vikings quarterback.  But he is still an average quarterback.  You can get all excited about the Chiefs and the Vikings and think they might win their division, but it is going to take a huge talent gap at just about every single position on the field for the Vikings to overtake the Packers or the Chiefs to beat out the Broncos (even with Manning's noodle arm, he's a ton better than Smith) or even the Chargers.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'm talking about people getting overly excited about football teams that have average quarterbacks.  Yes, Alex Smith is great...compared to what he was early in his career.  But he is still an average quarterback.  Yes, Teddy Bridgewater is great...for a 2nd year quarterback and for a Minnesota Vikings quarterback.  But he is still an average quarterback.  You can get all excited about the Chiefs and the Vikings and think they might win their division, but it is going to take a huge talent gap at just about every single position on the field for the Vikings to overtake the Packers or the Chiefs to beat out the Broncos (even with Manning's noodle arm, he's a ton better than Smith) or even the Chargers.

I disagree, you have a great defense and special teams with a good running game you can give teams hell. Just look at the 06 or 85 bears. Both had medichore quarterbacks at best.

[mu03eng]

The owners mostly love Roger.  What they are going to do is take the pressure off of him around discipline.  In essence, restructure the role so he doesn't have to deal with it as much.  For the most part, they don't want Roger gone, but they do want to reorganize the discipline away from that position.

At least that is what we are being told.

Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval.  Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done.  The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster.  Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.

With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely.  Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.

[wadesworld]

I disagree, you have a great defense and special teams with a good running game you can give teams hell. Just look at the 06 or 85 bears. Both had medichore quarterbacks at best.

You are right that there are exceptions, which is why I said there would need to be huge talent gaps at just about every other position.  I do think the Vikings defense will be better than the Packer's, but I don't think the Vikings defense will be close to historically good like the '06 Bears were.  I do think the Vikings have the better running back, but not to some astronomical point.  Same deal with the Chiefs when compared to the Broncos.

If you have an average or below average quarterback, you need to be dang near historically good on the defensive side of the ball to compete for a Championship.  While I think the Vikings and Chiefs will have good defenses, they aren't close to good enough to carry an average quarterback deep in the Playoffs.

This as compared to any other position on the field.  Just look at the Packers over the past decade.  Really bad defense?  All can be made up for by having a really good quarterback.  No running game?  No worries, as long as you have a really good quarterback.  You can argue that the Packers have had so much success because of their wide receivers, but look what those receivers do when the leave the Packers (Jennings, Jones).

If you don't have a good to great quarterback, you better have the best defense in the league by a wide margin and a quarterback who knows his job is to hand the ball off to a great running back and control the football if you want to win a Super Bowl.  Whereas if you have average to below average everything other than O Line and QB, you can still win a SB.

[brandx]

Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval.  Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done.  The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster.  Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.

With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely.  Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.

Generally speaking, you are right.

But the owners can't be happy that he keeps getting overturned every time one of these things goes to court.

And probably, the biggest thing is that he has lost Kraft, who was the #1 supporter of Goddell. Kraft was the guy who would talk down owners whenever they got upset with one of Goodell's rulings regarding their teams. Kraft would always tell them it was for the good of the league. That is why he accepted the punishment of his team by Goodell. He had to do what he always advised other owners to do.

I don't think will be in Goddell's corner much anymore.

[mu03eng]

Generally speaking, you are right.

But the owners can't be happy that he keeps getting overturned every time one of these things goes to court.

And probably, the biggest thing is that he has lost Kraft, who was the #1 supporter of Goddell. Kraft was the guy who would talk down owners whenever they got upset with one of Goodell's rulings regarding their teams. Kraft would always tell them it was for the good of the league. That is why he accepted the punishment of his team by Goodell. He had to do what he always advised other owners to do.

I don't think will be in Goddell's corner much anymore.

You are assuming the owners aren't using this as a red herring to distract from the concussion issue that is on-going.  Billionaires don't become and stay billionaires by not playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The concussion issue really wasn't an issue.  It's been known about for years and hasn't affected viewership.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Losing Kraft isn't that big right now.  He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years.  It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Losing Kraft isn't that big right now.  He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years.  It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.

Good point.

[MU B2002]

Losing Kraft isn't that big right now.  He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years.  It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.

I thought Kraft led the negotiations on the newest TV deal?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval.  Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done.  The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster.  Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.

With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely.  Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.

Agree

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought Kraft led the negotiations on the newest TV deal?

Kraft heads that committee, all the TV deals are done now, with DIRECTV and ESPN being the last two.  They're done for a considerable amount of time.

[wadesworld]

Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...

Same old Jay.

Bears down.


Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.

[GooooMarquette]

Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...

Same old Jay.

Bears down.


Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.

As a Packers fan, I hope the Bears keep Cutler for a long time.  They had their chances...but you just KNEW Jay would throw a pick when they needed a big play.

[brandx]

As a Packers fan, I hope the Bears keep Cutler for a long time.  They had their chances...but you just KNEW Jay would throw a pick when they needed a big play.

Good chance he ends up in the Packers HOF.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...

Same old Jay.

Bears down.


Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.

You're a piece of work. Jay was way more patient, you can't deny that and he made 2 bad decisions of the day. Same bears defense though that's forsure. Worst decision of the game was passing it 3 times from 2nd and goal at the 3.

Same old Wade

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think the Bears played about as good as they could against the Packers without creating a turnover.  They just aren't good enough to beat them without the Packers making mistakes.  However they have a much better coaching staff than the clown car that was running the place last year.

[wadesworld]

You're a piece of work. Jay was way more patient, you can't deny that and he made 2 bad decisions of the day. Same bears defense though that's forsure. Worst decision of the game was passing it 3 times from 2nd and goal at the 3.

Same old Wade

Like I said, John Fox did absolutely everything he possibly could have to prevent Jay from turning the ball over.  Quick, simple passes, quick reads, pound the ball, run the clock.  Fox is a smart, smart guy.  He knows what Jay is (a turnover prone, very bad starting quarterback), and he tried his very best to hide that.  If you're cool with your quarterback throwing an interception down by 8 with 4 minutes left, so be it.  I wouldn't be, but hey, I haven't had to deal with that type of quarterback play my entire life.

Yup, same old Wade.  Death, taxes, and a Packers win over a Jay Cutler quarterbacked team.

The proof is in the pudding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w

[tower912]

Same old Lions. 

[brandx]

It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.

Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.

(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)

[4everwarriors]

Well, to win da next SB, the Pack's gotta clean up their defense, ai na?

[wadesworld]

Well, to win da next SB, the Pack's gotta clean up their defense, ai na?

Hear hear.  It is a really, really bad thing when "Sticky" (Slippery?) Shields is your best cornerback.

Only players who looked capable today were Clay (who we know will be injured), Peppers, and kind of Micah Hyde.  Burnett will be helpful just for depth purposes and hopefully Guion also helps the run defense, but it is pretty poor right now.

[wadesworld]

It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.

Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.

(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)

Wilson won it because he has a coach who knows his weaknesses and hides them and because Wilson is smart enough to understand this and stick to the gameplan.  Control the football, don't turn it over, let your running game and one of the best defenses assembled in football carry you to a championship.  The Seahawks last offensive play in the Super Bowl went against absolutely everything they're all about.  They outthought themselves and we see what happens.

By the way, the documentary on last year's Patriots, "Do Your Job," was really good.  Their coaches are all over everything when it comes to gameplanning and preparation.  Belichick is a genius (and cheater).

[DegenerateDish]

I thought the Bears played fine today, have to measure it against expectations. I don't know anyone who thought the Bears had any shot of actually winning going in to today.

They looked competent overall, their secondary is horrendous, and they didn't make mistakes. I think it was Steve Young (could be wrong) who said "every INT has its own story". To put that pick on Cutler is foolish, any QB in the league would have made that same throw. Bennett was wide open, give all the credit in the world to Matthews. That play by Matthews is the type of play you put on your DPOY resume film. Watch it from different angles, what Matthews did there was awesome, he came from the other side of the tackle box, recognized what was happening, was athletic enough to make the play. Maybe like 3-4 other LB's in this league make that play at best.

The Pack have probably the most talented roster in the league, the Bears are near the bottom. On to week 2.