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Next up: A long offseason

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The Sultan

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on April 14, 2020, 08:38:11 AM
Fluffy,Hurley has accomplished good things at Buffalo and now ASU is seeing results.He didn't get Head coaching jobs because he was on Coach K tree like the rest of them that have flamed out


Right, but he didn't do it on his own either.  He was hired by his brother.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

MU82

In 7 seasons as a college head coach, 2 at Buffalo and 5 at ASU, Bobby Hurley has won 1 NCAA tournament game -- last year's play-in game at Dayton. In 6 seasons as a college coach, Wojo has won no NCAA tourney games. (Obviously, there were no tournament games in 2020.)

In 2020, Bracket Matrix had ASU as a 10-seed; MU as a 9-seed. In 2019, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU was a 5. In 2018, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU missed the tourney. In 2017, ASU missed the tourney; MU was a 10 seed.

In 5 seasons as a P6 coach, Hurley is 93-69 overall (.574) and 43-47 in the Pac-12 (.478); in 6 seasons as a P6 coach, Wojo is 115-81 overall (.587) and 51-57 (.472).

In 2017-18 Hurley's team started 12-0 but went 8-12 the rest of the way, had to play in Dayton and lost; in 2018-19 Wojo's team started 23-4 but went 1-6 the rest of the way and got crushed by Murray State in the NCAAs; in 2019-20, ASU lost 3 of its last 4 games and MU lost 6 of its last 7 games.

ASU trended up through Hurley's 4th season but took a step backward last season. Marquette trended up through Wojo's 5th season but took a step backward last season.

The highest ASU has finished in the Pac-12 under Hurley is 2nd place; the highest MU has finished in the Big East under Wojo is 2nd place.

Hurley is 2-4 in Pac-12 Tournament games over 4 years; Wojo is 4-5 in Big East Tournament games over 5 years. (No conf tourney games for either in 2020.)

Hurley's incoming recruiting class is ranked 33rd by 247, Wojo's is ranked 16th; Hurley's is ranked 16th by Rivals, Wojo's is ranked 20th.

I look at all of the above and I see two coaches whose records are strikingly similar -- some decent seasons, some failures, some fast starts, some late collapses, some nice wins, some horrific losses, no NCAA noise made, no conference titles. Their W/L records, both overall and in conference, were almost identical.

I certainly can see how any objective observer might say both have been mediocre; gentler judges might say "decent."

Many Scoopers, however, look at all of the above and conclude that Hurley is "getting it done" while Wojo is an epic failure.

That is what is known as "familiarity bias."
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

muguru

"Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity." Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

Aircraftcarrier

#25428
MU82.Get your head of the clouds man.Hurley coached Buffalo to first place finishes in the two years he was there.What kind of basketball tradition does Buffalo have.Now he is at another non basketball tradition school and trending upward.Wojo is at a rich basketball tradition school,in a great league with a nice budget and plays in one of the best arenas in the Country.What does Wojo have to show for it.O'Neill was much better and MU was in a crappy conference when he came and he still produced.Crean got MU to the Final Four being in Conference USA.Buzz did very well at MU.I can't believe people are still supporting Wojo.

WarriorPride68

Bobby Hurley like Wojo dipping his toe in the brothers water. Took on Josh Christopher older brother last year to set himself nicely

PJDunn

The Pac-12 is arguably a weaker bball conference than the MAC.  Advantage Wojo. 

Aircraftcarrier

The Pac-12 is arguably a weaker bball conference than the MAC.  Advantage Wojo.


Lol.Ball State who came in first on their side of the division lost to Washington by 21 points.Washington finished last in the Pac 12.Check the rankings of the conferences from this past season.Sorry PJDunn not very close

Viper

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 08:51:47 AM
In 7 seasons as a college head coach, 2 at Buffalo and 5 at ASU, Bobby Hurley has won 1 NCAA tournament game -- last year's play-in game at Dayton. In 6 seasons as a college coach, Wojo has won no NCAA tourney games. (Obviously, there were no tournament games in 2020.)

In 2020, Bracket Matrix had ASU as a 10-seed; MU as a 9-seed. In 2019, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU was a 5. In 2018, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU missed the tourney. In 2017, ASU missed the tourney; MU was a 10 seed.

In 5 seasons as a P6 coach, Hurley is 93-69 overall (.574) and 43-47 in the Pac-12 (.478); in 6 seasons as a P6 coach, Wojo is 115-81 overall (.587) and 51-57 (.472).

In 2017-18 Hurley's team started 12-0 but went 8-12 the rest of the way, had to play in Dayton and lost; in 2018-19 Wojo's team started 23-4 but went 1-6 the rest of the way and got crushed by Murray State in the NCAAs; in 2019-20, ASU lost 3 of its last 4 games and MU lost 6 of its last 7 games.

ASU trended up through Hurley's 4th season but took a step backward last season. Marquette trended up through Wojo's 5th season but took a step backward last season.

The highest ASU has finished in the Pac-12 under Hurley is 2nd place; the highest MU has finished in the Big East under Wojo is 2nd place.

Hurley is 2-4 in Pac-12 Tournament games over 4 years; Wojo is 4-5 in Big East Tournament games over 5 years. (No conf tourney games for either in 2020.)

Hurley's incoming recruiting class is ranked 33rd by 247, Wojo's is ranked 16th; Hurley's is ranked 16th by Rivals, Wojo's is ranked 20th.

I look at all of the above and I see two coaches whose records are strikingly similar -- some decent seasons, some failures, some fast starts, some late collapses, some nice wins, some horrific losses, no NCAA noise made, no conference titles. Their W/L records, both overall and in conference, were almost identical.

I certainly can see how any objective observer might say both have been mediocre; gentler judges might say "decent."

Many Scoopers, however, look at all of the above and conclude that Hurley is "getting it done" while Wojo is an epic failure.

That is what is known as "familiarity bias."
R U retired?
Support CBP 🇺🇸

bilsu

Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 14, 2020, 07:31:22 AM
Is that based off Twitter and instagram followings?
I think it is very logical that Mane is not coming to MU. When he talks about committing to MSU without visiting that tells me he is not excited about MU.

MU82

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on April 14, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
MU82.Get your head of the clouds man.

Head in clouds = facts. Got it.

Look, man, I'm no longer in the Projo camp. I simply like seeing honest discourse based on facts and not on familiarity bias and hate.

If you simply refuse to look at what each gentleman has accomplished (or not accomplished) as a P6 coach, you are beyond help.

Quote from: Marq3332 on April 14, 2020, 09:45:44 AM
R U retired?

Yes. And also on a statewide stay-at-home order.

Thanks for asking. I hope you are doing well.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

LloydsLegs

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 08:51:47 AM
In 7 seasons as a college head coach, 2 at Buffalo and 5 at ASU, Bobby Hurley has won 1 NCAA tournament game -- last year's play-in game at Dayton. In 6 seasons as a college coach, Wojo has won no NCAA tourney games. (Obviously, there were no tournament games in 2020.)

In 2020, Bracket Matrix had ASU as a 10-seed; MU as a 9-seed. In 2019, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU was a 5. In 2018, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU missed the tourney. In 2017, ASU missed the tourney; MU was a 10 seed.

In 5 seasons as a P6 coach, Hurley is 93-69 overall (.574) and 43-47 in the Pac-12 (.478); in 6 seasons as a P6 coach, Wojo is 115-81 overall (.587) and 51-57 (.472).

In 2017-18 Hurley's team started 12-0 but went 8-12 the rest of the way, had to play in Dayton and lost; in 2018-19 Wojo's team started 23-4 but went 1-6 the rest of the way and got crushed by Murray State in the NCAAs; in 2019-20, ASU lost 3 of its last 4 games and MU lost 6 of its last 7 games.

ASU trended up through Hurley's 4th season but took a step backward last season. Marquette trended up through Wojo's 5th season but took a step backward last season.

The highest ASU has finished in the Pac-12 under Hurley is 2nd place; the highest MU has finished in the Big East under Wojo is 2nd place.

Hurley is 2-4 in Pac-12 Tournament games over 4 years; Wojo is 4-5 in Big East Tournament games over 5 years. (No conf tourney games for either in 2020.)

Hurley's incoming recruiting class is ranked 33rd by 247, Wojo's is ranked 16th; Hurley's is ranked 16th by Rivals, Wojo's is ranked 20th.

I look at all of the above and I see two coaches whose records are strikingly similar -- some decent seasons, some failures, some fast starts, some late collapses, some nice wins, some horrific losses, no NCAA noise made, no conference titles. Their W/L records, both overall and in conference, were almost identical.

I certainly can see how any objective observer might say both have been mediocre; gentler judges might say "decent."

Many Scoopers, however, look at all of the above and conclude that Hurley is "getting it done" while Wojo is an epic failure.

That is what is known as "familiarity bias."

Tour de force

bilsu

Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 14, 2020, 08:34:05 AM
MU is a complete rebuild. Give Wojo 5 more years.

I will give him the time as long as our three man class stays.

I really fear that when free transfers start after this year we will lose all of them.




MU82

Quote from: bilsu on April 14, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
I really fear that when free transfers start after this year we will lose all of them.

Every fan of a non-blueblood has the same fear. And fans of blueblood fear that the NBA will start letting HS kids in again, thereby ending their 1-and-Done factories.

We're fans. We do "fear" for a living!
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

bilsu

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 10:00:23 AM
Every fan of a non-blueblood has the same fear. And fans of blueblood fear that the NBA will start letting HS kids in again, thereby ending their 1-and-Done factories.

We're fans. We do "fear" for a living!

This is a very excellent observation.

Aircraftcarrier

MU82.What has Wojo accomplished?Great he has been to the NCAA tourney 3 out of 6 years with no wins.Below .500 record in conference.He is at a basketball rich tradition school with a nice budget,plays in a good league in a nice arena.O'Neiil and Crean  have done remarkable better at MU than Wojo has under more trying conditions such as league affiliation and facilities.MU can do much better.

Silkk the Shaka

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2020, 08:51:47 AM
In 7 seasons as a college head coach, 2 at Buffalo and 5 at ASU, Bobby Hurley has won 1 NCAA tournament game -- last year's play-in game at Dayton. In 6 seasons as a college coach, Wojo has won no NCAA tourney games. (Obviously, there were no tournament games in 2020.)

In 2020, Bracket Matrix had ASU as a 10-seed; MU as a 9-seed. In 2019, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU was a 5. In 2018, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU missed the tourney. In 2017, ASU missed the tourney; MU was a 10 seed.

In 5 seasons as a P6 coach, Hurley is 93-69 overall (.574) and 43-47 in the Pac-12 (.478); in 6 seasons as a P6 coach, Wojo is 115-81 overall (.587) and 51-57 (.472).

In 2017-18 Hurley's team started 12-0 but went 8-12 the rest of the way, had to play in Dayton and lost; in 2018-19 Wojo's team started 23-4 but went 1-6 the rest of the way and got crushed by Murray State in the NCAAs; in 2019-20, ASU lost 3 of its last 4 games and MU lost 6 of its last 7 games.

ASU trended up through Hurley's 4th season but took a step backward last season. Marquette trended up through Wojo's 5th season but took a step backward last season.

The highest ASU has finished in the Pac-12 under Hurley is 2nd place; the highest MU has finished in the Big East under Wojo is 2nd place.

Hurley is 2-4 in Pac-12 Tournament games over 4 years; Wojo is 4-5 in Big East Tournament games over 5 years. (No conf tourney games for either in 2020.)

Hurley's incoming recruiting class is ranked 33rd by 247, Wojo's is ranked 16th; Hurley's is ranked 16th by Rivals, Wojo's is ranked 20th.

I look at all of the above and I see two coaches whose records are strikingly similar -- some decent seasons, some failures, some fast starts, some late collapses, some nice wins, some horrific losses, no NCAA noise made, no conference titles. Their W/L records, both overall and in conference, were almost identical.

I certainly can see how any objective observer might say both have been mediocre; gentler judges might say "decent."

Many Scoopers, however, look at all of the above and conclude that Hurley is "getting it done" while Wojo is an epic failure.

That is what is known as "familiarity bias."

Agreed, they are strikingly similar, not sure how one can conclude Hurley is "getting it done." Well laid out. At this point I would not be satisfied with either one of them.

WhiteTrash

Quote from: bilsu on April 14, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
I will give him the time as long as our three man class stays.

I really fear that when free transfers start after this year we will lose all of them.
I fear this is the beginning of the end. This next year will be very telling of Wojo.

JakeBarnes

Can we move this crap to a thread that isn't the recruiting thread...because this one is about, you know....recruiting
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.

"We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world; it is to fight them in ourselves and in others." -Camus, The Rebel

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

Quote from: JakeBarnes on April 14, 2020, 10:13:43 AM
Can we move this crap to a thread that isn't the recruiting thread...because this one is about, you know....recruiting

Good luck getting the same 10-12 poster circle jerk to avoid having this convo in every.single.fu**ing.thread.
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Uncle Rico

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on April 14, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
MU82.Get your head of the clouds man.Hurley coached Buffalo to first place finishes in the two years he was there.What kind of basketball tradition does Buffalo have.Now he is at another non basketball tradition school and trending upward.Wojo is at a rich basketball tradition school,in a great league with a nice budget and plays in one of the best arenas in the Country.What does Wojo have to show for it.O'Neill was much better and MU was in a crappy conference when he came and he still produced.Crean got MU to the Final Four being in Conference USA.Buzz did very well at MU.I can't believe people are still supporting Wojo.

Loyola Marymount has a great fan site. 
Guster is for Lovers

Aircraftcarrier

Loyola Marymount has a great fan site.


And a damn good coach!!!!!

Markusquette

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on April 14, 2020, 10:32:11 AM
Loyola Marymount has a great fan site.


And a damn good coach!!!!!

One that's great at posting inspirational quotes on twitter.

The Sultan

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 14, 2020, 10:28:20 AM
Good luck getting the same 10-12 poster circle jerk to avoid having this convo in every.single.fu**ing.thread.

Yet it doesn't stop you from complaining about it in every f*cking thread.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 14, 2020, 10:37:24 AM
Yet it doesn't stop you from complaining about it in every f*cking thread.

And it won't.  Its fu**ing stupid. A lot of people come here in the offseason to talk about the basketball team and recruiting. Not wade through pages and pages of the same tired arguments the good ol' boys can't avoid bringing up in every thread.  It makes this board unbearable.   
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

The Sultan

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 14, 2020, 10:44:30 AM
And it won't.  Its fu**ing stupid. A lot of people come here in the offseason to talk about the basketball team and recruiting. Not wade through pages and pages of the same tired arguments the good ol' boys can't avoid bringing up in every thread.  It makes this board unbearable.   

Fine.  Just don't expect it to change.  And you just add to the problem when you complain.

So...congrats???
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

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