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Author Topic: 2015 MLB Season Thread  (Read 97304 times)

LAZER

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 10:54:56 AM »
Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.  

Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.



You honestly believe that moving the Cubs out of Wrigley & Wrigleyville is a good idea???

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 10:56:09 AM »
I was more referencing the fact that they had 4 functional bathrooms for the game last night and there are reports that people were, erm, relieving themselves, in empty beer cups on the concourse.

I know, I was just taking it a step further the stupidity of that organization in trying to salvage Wrigley.

As far as what the reports you heard, I thought Cub fans did that anyway, regardless of circumstances?

JWags85

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 11:00:33 AM »
 But they are were a pathetic excuse for a baseball organization and their fans are insufferable.  I do believe they'll have some success over the next few years but I'd much rather cheer for the hard working Brewers and Sox any day.

Results withstanding, the current organization is wildly different than the Tribune owned years where they messed up the only quality front office situation when McDonough left for the Blackhawks.

And please don't start that lunch pail, hard hat nonsense as a reason to cheer for the Brewers/Sox.  Remember when they traded for Sabathia on a rental for a playoff run.  Or the White Sox fans jumping an opposing coach.  The plucky underdog angle is tired, especially when neither franchise is made up of paupers.

Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.  

Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.

Where were they supposed to go?  Rosemont?  Are you kidding?  Wrigley needed/needs work.  Absolutely, but blowing it up and starting over takes away much of the history of the franchise.  Where would they put a stadium?  And "old Chicago neighborhood"?  What does that even mean?  Is it better to put it in a "new" neighborhood like the West Loop with none of the character or infrastructure?

It would be amazing for the Cubs to win a championship, but insinuating that their history is such misery that they should just wipe away everything and start fresh is crazy talk.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 11:00:50 AM »
You honestly believe that moving the Cubs out of Wrigley & Wrigleyville is a good idea???

Yes. Renovations to that ancient old relic compared to what a brand new stadium in another location, where they're not constrained by a residential neighborhood, it would be a night and day difference in revenue potential.  They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with.  

Step out of the box with your thinking and the aura and cuteness of a ballpark in a residential neighborhood.  Yeah, it's quaint, but revenue potential is limited compared to what you could do in a location without any constraints.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2015, 11:04:00 AM »
Results withstanding, the current organization is wildly different than the Tribune owned years where they messed up the only quality front office situation when McDonough left for the Blackhawks.

And please don't start that lunch pail, hard hat nonsense as a reason to cheer for the Brewers/Sox.  Remember when they traded for Sabathia on a rental for a playoff run.  Or the White Sox fans jumping an opposing coach.  The plucky underdog angle is tired, especially when neither franchise is made up of paupers.

Where were they supposed to go?  Rosemont?  Are you kidding?  Wrigley needed/needs work.  Absolutely, but blowing it up and starting over takes away much of the history of the franchise.  Where would they put a stadium?  And "old Chicago neighborhood"?  What does that even mean?  Is it better to put it in a "new" neighborhood like the West Loop with none of the character or infrastructure?

It would be amazing for the Cubs to win a championship, but insinuating that their history is such misery that they should just wipe away everything and start fresh is crazy talk.

Only a Cub fan talks and thinks like this.  

Yes, your history is misery, step into reality.  But good for you in your interest in preserving your team's rotten history, and not taking it away as you say.

What does an "old Chicago neighborhood" mean?   OMG.

Pakuni

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2015, 11:08:44 AM »
Yes. Renovations to that ancient old relic compared to what a brand new stadium in another location, where they're not constrained by a residential neighborhood, it would be a night and day difference in revenue potential.  They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with.  

Step out of the box with your thinking and the aura and cuteness of a ballpark in a residential neighborhood.  Yeah, it's quaint, but revenue potential is limited compared to what you could do in a location without any constraints.

Except a huge - arguably the primary - draw for the Cubs is Wrigley Field. Build a modern stadium outside a residential area or in the suburbs, and the Cubs become just another team who would have to  - gasp! - win consistently to fill seats. What the Ricketts lose in not having modern revenue-generating amenities they make up by not having 20,000 unsold seats for games in late August and September.
While they're proving to be lousy baseball owners, the Ricketts aren't financially unsavvy. They know the Cubs have no greater marketing tool than Wrigley, and that's why they're sticking with it.


JWags85

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2015, 11:12:43 AM »
You didn't answer the question though in your Wrigley bashing hypotheticals.  Where in Chicago can they drop a baseball stadium?  Finding room for a basketball arena was a pain.  So where could they magically put this new neighborhood built around a shiny new stadium?  The renovation was only the first step, there is a bunch of "revenue generating" development going on across the street from Wrigley as is.

The Cubs are still a top 5 team in value and had the second highest operating income in baseball last year.  I think they're doing ok financially.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2015, 11:14:50 AM »
Except a huge - arguably the primary - draw for the Cubs is Wrigley Field. Build a modern stadium outside a residential area or in the suburbs, and the Cubs become just another team who would have to  - gasp! - win consistently to fill seats. What the Ricketts lose in not having modern revenue-generating amenities they make up by not having 20,000 unsold seats for games in late August and September.
While they're proving to be lousy baseball owners, the Ricketts aren't financially unsavvy. They know the Cubs have no greater marketing tool than Wrigley, and that's why they're sticking with it.


Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.

Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of.   The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.

For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.  

At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.  

LAZER

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2015, 11:17:47 AM »
Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.

Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of.   The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.

For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.  

At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.  

You're so far off on this, it's unbelievable.  There's a reason why the Red Sox didn't tear down Fenway too.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2015, 11:19:42 AM »
You didn't answer the question though in your Wrigley bashing hypotheticals.  Where in Chicago can they drop a baseball stadium?  Finding room for a basketball arena was a pain.  So where could they magically put this new neighborhood built around a shiny new stadium?  The renovation was only the first step, there is a bunch of "revenue generating" development going on across the street from Wrigley as is.

The Cubs are still a top 5 team in value and had the second highest operating income in baseball last year.  I think they're doing ok financially.

Well, gee, maybe one of the zillion suburbs of Chicago?  Is there some law that they have to stay in the city?  Drop the old paradigms for gosh sake, what's been done the past, oh, CENTURY PLUS now, hasn't worked very well, has it?

And as a Brewer fan, I hope the Cubs stay fat and happy about their top 5 value and second highest operating income, instead of worrying about winning.  

Pakuni

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2015, 11:25:18 AM »
Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.

Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of.   The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.

For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.  

At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.  

Again, you're missing the point.
The Cubs aren't financially successful and able "to print money" because they're the Cubs. They're able to do so because of Wrigley Field.
You're thinking that they can demolish their primary asset, move 20 miles away and attract the same - or more - revenue just doesn't make sense.

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2015, 11:29:48 AM »
And Cubs fans were the obnoxious ones, right?


Anyways, was there last night, beautiful day and night for baseball. Bathroom problems were only an issue in left field, we didn't even recognize a problem in right field until checking Deadspin this morning.

Video board looked incredible. Really didn't take anything away from Wrigley, a long overdue addition. No commercials on it was great, and they put a lot of production value into the content. I couldn't believe how crisp it was. Miller Park's is a little washed out, so I was expecting that, but maybe it had to do with no lights behind it.

Interesting side note, they had a moment of silence for Oscar Tavares. Not sure how I felt about honoring a murderer.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:34:46 AM by PandTandMand... »

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2015, 11:32:59 AM »
Again, you're missing the point.
The Cubs aren't financially successful and able "to print money" because they're the Cubs. They're able to do so because of Wrigley Field.
You're thinking that they can demolish their primary asset, move 20 miles away and attract the same - or more - revenue just doesn't make sense.


I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!!  I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.  

And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself.  They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.

And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing?  But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2015, 11:37:36 AM »
And Cubs fans were the obnoxious ones, right?

Interesting side note, they had a moment of silence for Oscar Tavares. Not sure how I felt about honoring a murderer.


Very classy end to your post, especially given how it started. 

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2015, 11:40:09 AM »
Very classy end to your post, especially given how it started. 

Oh I'm sorry, did I misspeak or something?

JWags85

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2015, 11:42:58 AM »
Well, gee, maybe one of the zillion suburbs of Chicago?  Is there some law that they have to stay in the city?  Drop the old paradigms for gosh sake, what's been done the past, oh, CENTURY PLUS now, hasn't worked very well, has it?

And as a Brewer fan, I hope the Cubs stay fat and happy about their top 5 value and second highest operating income, instead of worrying about winning.  

There is a reason that no major Chicago sports team plays in the suburbs.  Transportation would be a pain.  Again, why give up a stadium, that can and has been updated, in a prime area with built in infrastructure to go somewhere with none of that and substantially more transportation barriers.  It worked for the Yankees cause they moved across the street.  If the Cubs had that luxury, then its a different story.  Its not like the Yankees moved to Westchester like you're proposing.  And lets not talk about the myriad of cost complaints about new Yankee stadium that has priced out many common fans.

Since 2000
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Way to prey on those fat and happy Cubs.  You better hope that this Theo plan doesn't work the next 3-5 years and chop the legs out from under your tenuous argument.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:45:20 AM by JWags85 »

Pakuni

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2015, 11:47:23 AM »
I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!!  I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.  

You said:
"They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with."

I guess, then, I have two questions:
1. If not for "being the Cubs" what asset here would allow the franchise to somehow create a new Wrigleyville (impossible, but playing along for sake of argument) and print money. What would be the draw for this new Wrigleyville, if not the major-league baseball franchise that inhabits it?

2. How exactly does a baseball team create a new neighborhood? The success of new baseball stadiums generating redevelopment in existing neighborhoods is mixed at best (go visit the area around Comerica Park on a non-game day), but you think a baseball team can create a new one? How does this happen?



Quote
And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself.  They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.

The track record for ballparks generating year-round revenue is abysmal. Do people hang around Comerica Park in December? Does anyone go to dine at Miller Park in February?
The cost of opening up a stadium during the offseason, I suspect, would far outweigh whatever revenue a restaurant there would generate.

And yeah, winning would be ideal. I think the Cubs legitimately want to win, they've just done a terrible job of it (I say this as a Sox fan).
But the fact is, even when they don't have a winning product - and nobody wins every year - they have an asset to sell. I think most major-league teams wish they could sell 30,000+ seats for meaningless games in September because people like the ballpark so much.

Quote
And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing?  But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.

With all due respect, something's not quite right about Brewers fans calling the Cubs stupid or ripping on their lack of winning. It's not like your ballpark is chock full of pennants.
Thinking that Wrigley Field somehow factors into the Cubs' history of losing is nearly as dumb as blaming a goat.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:49:58 AM by Pakuni »

MerrittsMustache

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Re: 2015-16 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2015, 11:58:09 AM »
You said:
And yeah, winning would be ideal. I think the Cubs legitimately want to win, they've just done a terrible job of it (I say this as a Sox fan).
But the fact is, even when they don't have a winning product - and nobody wins every year - they have an asset to sell. I think most major-league teams wish they had that.

The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset. If Theo's plan doesn't work out (and I have some serious doubts), in 5 years the Cubs are going to be winning 75 games in a half-empty stadium that's basically the same as everyone else's.

Wrigley obviously needs some renovations but it's the concourses and the Cubs' clubhouse that should be the priority. The bleachers that they just tore down were built in 2007! That's 3 years AFTER parts of the concourse were crumbling and nets needed to be installed. 


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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2015, 12:00:06 PM »
The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset. If Theo's plan doesn't work out (and I have some serious doubts), in 5 years the Cubs are going to be winning 75 games in a half-empty stadium that's basically the same as everyone else's.

Wrigley obviously needs some renovations but it's the concourses and the Cubs' clubhouse that should be the priority. The bleachers that they just tore down were built in 2007! That's 3 years AFTER parts of the concourse were crumbling and nets needed to be installed. 



The bleachers had to be done first to get the clubhouse and concourse upgraded, all the utilities run through them.

We'll have to see the final product, but the renderings seem to be pretty impressive.

JuniorCardigan

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2015, 12:06:06 PM »
There is a reason that no major Chicago sports team plays in the suburbs.  


Are you saying that the Wolves aren't a major Chicago sports team?!

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2015, 12:10:39 PM »
Are you saying that the Wolves aren't a major Chicago sports team?!

+1

MerrittsMustache

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2015, 12:15:44 PM »
The bleachers had to be done first to get the clubhouse and concourse upgraded, all the utilities run through them.

We'll have to see the final product, but the renderings seem to be pretty impressive.

The bleachers didn't need to be done at all...except to add the completely unnecessary jumbotron and signage.


GGGG

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2015, 12:19:09 PM »
The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset.


To be honest, I think that asset was already starting to lose its appeal.  The idea of going to an old-timey ballpark is nice maybe once or twice.  And while I agree that part of that character is nice, people want the comforts of a newer park.  Hopefully this renovation will combine the two.  

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2015, 12:29:53 PM »
The bleachers didn't need to be done at all...except to add the completely unnecessary jumbotron and signage.



Yes, they bleachers were in good enough condition where they didn't NEED to be done. However, when you're going to have to remove over a 1/3rd to connect to the concourse, bring in new utilities and upgrade the area underneath the bleachers, you might as well start over.

The renovation is the one thing I have good knowledge of, don't take it from me. #source?

Celtic Truth

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Re: 2015 MLB Season Thread
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2015, 12:38:31 PM »
Watch out for the Red Sox this year. Our starting pitching is our big question mark at this point but I think we will sign an ace(Hammels?) by mid season. I think we definitely have the best offense at this point. The Red Sox are definitely my World Series pick at this point.