MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Blackhat on April 05, 2015, 06:20:18 PM
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Damn is it 2015 already?
Cubs start off tonight. Epstein's rebuilt program begins. I hope it blows up on him.
Brewers start tomorrow.
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Cubs have a very bright future. This World Series talk is 2 years early, if you ask me.
Brewers are a .500 caliber team who happen to be in the toughest division in baseball, so below .500 this year if you ask me.
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Excited for the White Sox this year. Should at least be competitive.
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What have the White Sox done to improve?
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I'm going to the Brewers opener tomorrow so I'll be in the bag by the time the UW-Madison - Duke game tips off.
I think the Brewers have a chance to contend this year but they'll need bounce-back years from guys like Segura and Braun and continued progress from young pitchers like Jimmy Nelson and Fiers. And they need to stay healthy. Their batting order really is imposing with Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Ramirez, Lind, Davis, Gennett and Segura. Really like their run scoring potential. And I really like their bullpen.
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What have the White Sox done to improve?
Lots
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What have the White Sox done to improve?
Finally have a stud eighty to counter Sale. Duke and Robertson solidify the pen. Actually have a respectable outfield this year so long as they stay healthy. Only two questions are 2B and C but Flowers was much improved last year.
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I'm going to the Brewers opener tomorrow so I'll be in the bag by the time the UW-Madison - Duke game tips off.
I think the Brewers have a chance to contend this year but they'll need bounce-back years from guys like Segura and Braun and continued progress from young pitchers like Jimmy Nelson and Fiers. And they need to stay healthy. Their batting order really is imposing with Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Ramirez, Lind, Davis, Gennett and Segura. Really like their run scoring potential. And I really like their bullpen.
Hopefully Nelson has added that third pitch. I like the Lind add too. Maybe a kid like Thornburg can be a good surprise should someone get hurt in the rotation. I'd still platoon Gennnett Unfortunately I don't think Braun is ever going to "be back", and we know why. Hopefully he hits the weights and the coffee. Excited to see it get going though.
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Finally have a stud eighty to counter Sale. Duke and Robertson solidify the pen. Actually have a respectable outfield this year so long as they stay healthy. Only two questions are 2B and C but Flowers was much improved last year.
thanks for the run-down.
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Damn is it 2015 already?
Cubs start off tonight. Epstein's rebuilt program begins. I hope it blows up on him.
Brewers start tomorrow.
Love the Cubs future - but they are a 4th place team this year.
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Cubs have a very bright future. This World Series talk is 2 years early, if you ask me.
Brewers are a .500 caliber team who happen to be in the toughest division in baseball, so below .500 this year if you ask me.
I'll take the AL West as the toughest division in baseball, but we'll see how it plays out.
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Depending upon which site you visit, Cubbies are anywhere from 7-1 to 10-1 to win the NL pennant.
Cubbie fans crack me up.
But good for them betting the line down. I mean, putting one's money on the Cubs to win the pennant has been a very good financial strategy for the last 70 years.
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I'm going to the Brewers opener tomorrow so I'll be in the bag by the time the UW-Madison - Duke game tips off.
I think the Brewers have a chance to contend this year but they'll need bounce-back years from guys like Segura and Braun and continued progress from young pitchers like Jimmy Nelson and Fiers. And they need to stay healthy. Their batting order really is imposing with Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Ramirez, Lind, Davis, Gennett and Segura. Really like their run scoring potential. And I really like their bullpen.
I'll be there tomorrow, as well. I agree with all you say. If Braun is at least 80% of what he was, they will score a lot of runs.
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Amen to that. Finally MLB season.
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Depending upon which site you visit, Cubbies are anywhere from 7-1 to 10-1 to win the NL pennant.
Cubbie fans crack me up.
But good for them betting the line down. I mean, putting one's money on the Cubs to win the pennant has been a very good financial strategy for the last 70 years.
You're crazy if you think that's just Cubs fans. Look at national writers posting, in my opinion, foolish buzz pieces about the Cubs. I mean, I'm more excited to watch them this year than I have been in 7-8 years, but nobody logically thinks this is the year a run is made.
If only I was a Brewers fan with all those division titles and pennants stacked up to give me a basis to throw shade at other fan bases.
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How many threads are we going to start on the 2015 season?
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If only I was a Brewers fan with all those division titles and pennants stacked up to give me a basis to throw shade at other fan bases.
I'm a Brewer fan, and you're right, our record over the years gives us no bragging rights on any other fan base.
Here's what you're missing though, Cub fans are unquestionably the most insufferably obnoxious in all of sports!! They are despised and mocked by everybody, and with good reason.
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How is this the 2015-2016 season instead of just the 2015 season?
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Good catch. I'll change it.
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At least the Cubs can hang their hats on Wrigley's superior bathroom facilities...
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How is this the 2015-2016 season instead of just the 2015 season?
LOL- I finally noticed that too- I know that a baseball season seems like it carries on over two calendar years, but they actually do manage to get it all in over just one.
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How many threads are we going to start on the 2015 season?
Is there another one? I didn't see one when I looked. Mods can combine em.
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I'm a Brewer fan, and you're right, our record over the years gives us no bragging rights on any other fan base.
Here's what you're missing though, Cub fans are unquestionably the most insufferably obnoxious in all of sports!! They are despised and mocked by everybody, and with good reason.
That is true. I came to Chicago in 1984 ready to embrace the Cubs. Watched games on Channel 9 in my graduate school dorm. Been here pretty much ever since. But they are a pathetic excuse for a baseball organization and their fans are insufferable. I do believe they'll have some success over the next few years but I'd much rather cheer for the hard working Brewers and Sox any day.
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At least the Cubs can hang their hats on Wrigley's superior bathroom facilities...
Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.
Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.
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Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.
Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.
I was more referencing the fact that they had 4 functional bathrooms for the game last night and there are reports that people were, erm, relieving themselves, in empty beer cups on the concourse.
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Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.
Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.
You honestly believe that moving the Cubs out of Wrigley & Wrigleyville is a good idea???
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I was more referencing the fact that they had 4 functional bathrooms for the game last night and there are reports that people were, erm, relieving themselves, in empty beer cups on the concourse.
I know, I was just taking it a step further the stupidity of that organization in trying to salvage Wrigley.
As far as what the reports you heard, I thought Cub fans did that anyway, regardless of circumstances?
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But they are were a pathetic excuse for a baseball organization and their fans are insufferable. I do believe they'll have some success over the next few years but I'd much rather cheer for the hard working Brewers and Sox any day.
Results withstanding, the current organization is wildly different than the Tribune owned years where they messed up the only quality front office situation when McDonough left for the Blackhawks.
And please don't start that lunch pail, hard hat nonsense as a reason to cheer for the Brewers/Sox. Remember when they traded for Sabathia on a rental for a playoff run. Or the White Sox fans jumping an opposing coach. The plucky underdog angle is tired, especially when neither franchise is made up of paupers.
Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.
Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.
Where were they supposed to go? Rosemont? Are you kidding? Wrigley needed/needs work. Absolutely, but blowing it up and starting over takes away much of the history of the franchise. Where would they put a stadium? And "old Chicago neighborhood"? What does that even mean? Is it better to put it in a "new" neighborhood like the West Loop with none of the character or infrastructure?
It would be amazing for the Cubs to win a championship, but insinuating that their history is such misery that they should just wipe away everything and start fresh is crazy talk.
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You honestly believe that moving the Cubs out of Wrigley & Wrigleyville is a good idea???
Yes. Renovations to that ancient old relic compared to what a brand new stadium in another location, where they're not constrained by a residential neighborhood, it would be a night and day difference in revenue potential. They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with.
Step out of the box with your thinking and the aura and cuteness of a ballpark in a residential neighborhood. Yeah, it's quaint, but revenue potential is limited compared to what you could do in a location without any constraints.
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Results withstanding, the current organization is wildly different than the Tribune owned years where they messed up the only quality front office situation when McDonough left for the Blackhawks.
And please don't start that lunch pail, hard hat nonsense as a reason to cheer for the Brewers/Sox. Remember when they traded for Sabathia on a rental for a playoff run. Or the White Sox fans jumping an opposing coach. The plucky underdog angle is tired, especially when neither franchise is made up of paupers.
Where were they supposed to go? Rosemont? Are you kidding? Wrigley needed/needs work. Absolutely, but blowing it up and starting over takes away much of the history of the franchise. Where would they put a stadium? And "old Chicago neighborhood"? What does that even mean? Is it better to put it in a "new" neighborhood like the West Loop with none of the character or infrastructure?
It would be amazing for the Cubs to win a championship, but insinuating that their history is such misery that they should just wipe away everything and start fresh is crazy talk.
Only a Cub fan talks and thinks like this.
Yes, your history is misery, step into reality. But good for you in your interest in preserving your team's rotten history, and not taking it away as you say.
What does an "old Chicago neighborhood" mean? OMG.
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Yes. Renovations to that ancient old relic compared to what a brand new stadium in another location, where they're not constrained by a residential neighborhood, it would be a night and day difference in revenue potential. They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with.
Step out of the box with your thinking and the aura and cuteness of a ballpark in a residential neighborhood. Yeah, it's quaint, but revenue potential is limited compared to what you could do in a location without any constraints.
Except a huge - arguably the primary - draw for the Cubs is Wrigley Field. Build a modern stadium outside a residential area or in the suburbs, and the Cubs become just another team who would have to - gasp! - win consistently to fill seats. What the Ricketts lose in not having modern revenue-generating amenities they make up by not having 20,000 unsold seats for games in late August and September.
While they're proving to be lousy baseball owners, the Ricketts aren't financially unsavvy. They know the Cubs have no greater marketing tool than Wrigley, and that's why they're sticking with it.
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You didn't answer the question though in your Wrigley bashing hypotheticals. Where in Chicago can they drop a baseball stadium? Finding room for a basketball arena was a pain. So where could they magically put this new neighborhood built around a shiny new stadium? The renovation was only the first step, there is a bunch of "revenue generating" development going on across the street from Wrigley as is.
The Cubs are still a top 5 team in value and had the second highest operating income in baseball last year. I think they're doing ok financially.
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Except a huge - arguably the primary - draw for the Cubs is Wrigley Field. Build a modern stadium outside a residential area or in the suburbs, and the Cubs become just another team who would have to - gasp! - win consistently to fill seats. What the Ricketts lose in not having modern revenue-generating amenities they make up by not having 20,000 unsold seats for games in late August and September.
While they're proving to be lousy baseball owners, the Ricketts aren't financially unsavvy. They know the Cubs have no greater marketing tool than Wrigley, and that's why they're sticking with it.
Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.
Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of. The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.
For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.
At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.
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Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.
Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of. The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.
For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.
At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.
You're so far off on this, it's unbelievable. There's a reason why the Red Sox didn't tear down Fenway too.
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You didn't answer the question though in your Wrigley bashing hypotheticals. Where in Chicago can they drop a baseball stadium? Finding room for a basketball arena was a pain. So where could they magically put this new neighborhood built around a shiny new stadium? The renovation was only the first step, there is a bunch of "revenue generating" development going on across the street from Wrigley as is.
The Cubs are still a top 5 team in value and had the second highest operating income in baseball last year. I think they're doing ok financially.
Well, gee, maybe one of the zillion suburbs of Chicago? Is there some law that they have to stay in the city? Drop the old paradigms for gosh sake, what's been done the past, oh, CENTURY PLUS now, hasn't worked very well, has it?
And as a Brewer fan, I hope the Cubs stay fat and happy about their top 5 value and second highest operating income, instead of worrying about winning.
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Yeah, agree that Wrigley has been the primary draw most years given their on field product has stunk.
Here's a wild thought, resolve to making good baseball decisions and putting a good product on the field year after year, and the rest will be taken care of. The fact that they cling to Wrigley out of fear they can't put a winning product on the field year in and year out shows how backwards the Cubs organization is.
For crying out loud, a franchise with probably the richest tradition of winning and legendary players, the Yankees, tore down Yankee Stadium, which did have incredibly good history, and replaced it with a brand new stadium.
At the end of the day, it just goes back to, it's the Cubs.
Again, you're missing the point.
The Cubs aren't financially successful and able "to print money" because they're the Cubs. They're able to do so because of Wrigley Field.
You're thinking that they can demolish their primary asset, move 20 miles away and attract the same - or more - revenue just doesn't make sense.
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And Cubs fans were the obnoxious ones, right?
Anyways, was there last night, beautiful day and night for baseball. Bathroom problems were only an issue in left field, we didn't even recognize a problem in right field until checking Deadspin this morning.
Video board looked incredible. Really didn't take anything away from Wrigley, a long overdue addition. No commercials on it was great, and they put a lot of production value into the content. I couldn't believe how crisp it was. Miller Park's is a little washed out, so I was expecting that, but maybe it had to do with no lights behind it.
Interesting side note, they had a moment of silence for Oscar Tavares. Not sure how I felt about honoring a murderer.
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Again, you're missing the point.
The Cubs aren't financially successful and able "to print money" because they're the Cubs. They're able to do so because of Wrigley Field.
You're thinking that they can demolish their primary asset, move 20 miles away and attract the same - or more - revenue just doesn't make sense.
I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!! I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.
And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself. They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.
And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing? But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.
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And Cubs fans were the obnoxious ones, right?
Interesting side note, they had a moment of silence for Oscar Tavares. Not sure how I felt about honoring a murderer.
Very classy end to your post, especially given how it started.
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Very classy end to your post, especially given how it started.
Oh I'm sorry, did I misspeak or something?
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Well, gee, maybe one of the zillion suburbs of Chicago? Is there some law that they have to stay in the city? Drop the old paradigms for gosh sake, what's been done the past, oh, CENTURY PLUS now, hasn't worked very well, has it?
And as a Brewer fan, I hope the Cubs stay fat and happy about their top 5 value and second highest operating income, instead of worrying about winning.
There is a reason that no major Chicago sports team plays in the suburbs. Transportation would be a pain. Again, why give up a stadium, that can and has been updated, in a prime area with built in infrastructure to go somewhere with none of that and substantially more transportation barriers. It worked for the Yankees cause they moved across the street. If the Cubs had that luxury, then its a different story. Its not like the Yankees moved to Westchester like you're proposing. And lets not talk about the myriad of cost complaints about new Yankee stadium that has priced out many common fans.
Since 2000
Division Titles: Cubs-3, Brewers-1
Playoff Appearances: Cubs 3, Brewers-2
Since 2005 and Attanasio
Division Titles: Cubs-2, Brewers-1
Playoff Appearances: Cubs 2, Brewers-2
Way to prey on those fat and happy Cubs. You better hope that this Theo plan doesn't work the next 3-5 years and chop the legs out from under your tenuous argument.
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I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!! I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.
You said:
"They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with."
I guess, then, I have two questions:
1. If not for "being the Cubs" what asset here would allow the franchise to somehow create a new Wrigleyville (impossible, but playing along for sake of argument) and print money. What would be the draw for this new Wrigleyville, if not the major-league baseball franchise that inhabits it?
2. How exactly does a baseball team create a new neighborhood? The success of new baseball stadiums generating redevelopment in existing neighborhoods is mixed at best (go visit the area around Comerica Park on a non-game day), but you think a baseball team can create a new one? How does this happen?
And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself. They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.
The track record for ballparks generating year-round revenue is abysmal. Do people hang around Comerica Park in December? Does anyone go to dine at Miller Park in February?
The cost of opening up a stadium during the offseason, I suspect, would far outweigh whatever revenue a restaurant there would generate.
And yeah, winning would be ideal. I think the Cubs legitimately want to win, they've just done a terrible job of it (I say this as a Sox fan).
But the fact is, even when they don't have a winning product - and nobody wins every year - they have an asset to sell. I think most major-league teams wish they could sell 30,000+ seats for meaningless games in September because people like the ballpark so much.
And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing? But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.
With all due respect, something's not quite right about Brewers fans calling the Cubs stupid or ripping on their lack of winning. It's not like your ballpark is chock full of pennants.
Thinking that Wrigley Field somehow factors into the Cubs' history of losing is nearly as dumb as blaming a goat.
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You said:
And yeah, winning would be ideal. I think the Cubs legitimately want to win, they've just done a terrible job of it (I say this as a Sox fan).
But the fact is, even when they don't have a winning product - and nobody wins every year - they have an asset to sell. I think most major-league teams wish they had that.
The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset. If Theo's plan doesn't work out (and I have some serious doubts), in 5 years the Cubs are going to be winning 75 games in a half-empty stadium that's basically the same as everyone else's.
Wrigley obviously needs some renovations but it's the concourses and the Cubs' clubhouse that should be the priority. The bleachers that they just tore down were built in 2007! That's 3 years AFTER parts of the concourse were crumbling and nets needed to be installed.
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The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset. If Theo's plan doesn't work out (and I have some serious doubts), in 5 years the Cubs are going to be winning 75 games in a half-empty stadium that's basically the same as everyone else's.
Wrigley obviously needs some renovations but it's the concourses and the Cubs' clubhouse that should be the priority. The bleachers that they just tore down were built in 2007! That's 3 years AFTER parts of the concourse were crumbling and nets needed to be installed.
The bleachers had to be done first to get the clubhouse and concourse upgraded, all the utilities run through them.
We'll have to see the final product, but the renderings seem to be pretty impressive.
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There is a reason that no major Chicago sports team plays in the suburbs.
Are you saying that the Wolves aren't a major Chicago sports team?!
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Are you saying that the Wolves aren't a major Chicago sports team?!
+1
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The bleachers had to be done first to get the clubhouse and concourse upgraded, all the utilities run through them.
We'll have to see the final product, but the renderings seem to be pretty impressive.
The bleachers didn't need to be done at all...except to add the completely unnecessary jumbotron and signage.
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The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset.
To be honest, I think that asset was already starting to lose its appeal. The idea of going to an old-timey ballpark is nice maybe once or twice. And while I agree that part of that character is nice, people want the comforts of a newer park. Hopefully this renovation will combine the two.
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The bleachers didn't need to be done at all...except to add the completely unnecessary jumbotron and signage.
Yes, they bleachers were in good enough condition where they didn't NEED to be done. However, when you're going to have to remove over a 1/3rd to connect to the concourse, bring in new utilities and upgrade the area underneath the bleachers, you might as well start over.
The renovation is the one thing I have good knowledge of, don't take it from me. #source?
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Watch out for the Red Sox this year. Our starting pitching is our big question mark at this point but I think we will sign an ace(Hammels?) by mid season. I think we definitely have the best offense at this point. The Red Sox are definitely my World Series pick at this point.
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Watch out for the Red Sox this year. Our starting pitching is our big question mark at this point but I think we will sign an ace(Hammels?) by mid season. I think we definitely have the best offense at this point. The Red Sox are definitely my World Series pick at this point.
My money is on the Nats, if that rotation can stay healthy (big if, Strasburg is made of glass) that team could be unstoppable in the playoffs.
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Yes. Renovations to that ancient old relic compared to what a brand new stadium in another location, where they're not constrained by a residential neighborhood, it would be a night and day difference in revenue potential. They could do up a new Wrigleyville that they would print money with.
Step out of the box with your thinking and the aura and cuteness of a ballpark in a residential neighborhood. Yeah, it's quaint, but revenue potential is limited compared to what you could do in a location without any constraints.
You can believe this all you want, Hutch, but it's simply not going to happen, probably not in our lifetimes.
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Anybody else get a kick out of Maddon pulling a La Russa and batting his pitcher 8th. It's a classic case of "I'm always the smartest guy in the room, and to hell with the fact that thousands of managers before me didn't do this." Even La Russa realized it was stupid.
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Does anyone go to dine at Miller Park in February?
The cost of opening up a stadium during the offseason, I suspect, would far outweigh whatever revenue a restaurant there would generate.
Absolutely, we probably go to the TGI Fridays there once a month in the winter months when we don't have to check the schedule to see if its a gameday or not
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What have the White Sox done to improve?
Subtractions
Paul Konerko (retired)
Dayan Viciedo
Ronald Beisario
Marcus Semien
Josh Phegley
Moises Sierra
Jordan Danks
Felipe Paulino
Additions
Jeff Samardzija
David Robertson
Melky Cabrera
Adam LaRoche
Zach Duke
Dan Jennings
Emilio Bonifacio
Geovany Soto
Gordon Beckham
J.B. Shuck
Michah Johnson
Kyle Drabek
Matt Albers
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Anybody else get a kick out of Maddon pulling a La Russa and batting his pitcher 8th. It's a classic case of "I'm always the smartest guy in the room, and to hell with the fact that thousands of managers before me didn't do this." Even La Russa realized it was stupid.
I despise the Cardinals (and LaRussa), but when it comes to baseball, I'll willingly admit that there's a pretty damn good chance that LaRussa is going to be the smartest guy in whatever room he's in.
There are situations and lineups where it is perfectly logical - on paper - to bat the pitcher 8th. The problem is not the statistics, but getting your players to execute and approach a situation the same way that they otherwise would... the "fact" that the pitcher should always bat 9th is ingrained into them as well, so when the decision goes bad, your players can lose faith, and that leads to other problems, which is why only guys with the stature of LaRussa, and Maddon should attempt it, not Ned Yost.
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Subtractions
Paul Konerko (retired)
Dayan Viciedo
Ronald Beisario
Marcus Semien
Josh Phegley
Moises Sierra
Jordan Danks
Felipe Paulino
Additions
Jeff Samardzija
David Robertson
Melky Cabrera
Adam LaRoche
Zach Duke
Dan Jennings
Emilio Bonifacio
Geovany Soto
Gordon Beckham
J.B. Shuck
Michah Johnson
Kyle Drabek
Matt Albers
It should be a really interesting year for the Sox, but I'm still surprised by the PECOTA outlook and think they should have no problem getting 78 wins.
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It should be a really interesting year for the Sox, but I'm still surprised by the PECOTA outlook and think they should have no problem getting 78 wins.
The only person I'm upset about losing was Semien. Other than that, good riddance.
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There are situations and lineups where it is perfectly logical - on paper - to bat the pitcher 8th. The problem is not the statistics, but getting your players to execute and approach a situation the same way that they otherwise would... the "fact" that the pitcher should always bat 9th is ingrained into them as well, so when the decision goes bad, your players can lose faith, and that leads to other problems, which is why only guys with the stature of LaRussa, and Maddon should attempt it, not Ned Yost.
Maddon seems like a good guy who'd be fun to grab a beer with, but he has a managerial reputation as someone who tinkers with things for the sake of tinkering with things.
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I despise the Cardinals (and LaRussa), but when it comes to baseball, I'll willingly admit that there's a pretty damn good chance that LaRussa is going to be the smartest guy in whatever room he's in.
There are situations and lineups where it is perfectly logical - on paper - to bat the pitcher 8th. The problem is not the statistics, but getting your players to execute and approach a situation the same way that they otherwise would... the "fact" that the pitcher should always bat 9th is ingrained into them as well, so when the decision goes bad, your players can lose faith, and that leads to other problems, which is why only guys with the stature of LaRussa, and Maddon should attempt it, not Ned Yost.
Lester was on a pitch count last night, and was not going to last late. Knowing he would double-switch early, Maddon wanted to have that bat off the bench not be in the 9th slot. Unusual, but at least there was a thought-process.
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Brauny out with injury already? Get back on the 'roids kid, you'll actually be able to hit the ball again, and stay on the field.
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Again, you're missing the point.
The Cubs aren't financially successful and able "to print money" because they're the Cubs. They're able to do so because of Wrigley Field.
You're thinking that they can demolish their primary asset, move 20 miles away and attract the same - or more - revenue just doesn't make sense.
They are able to print money due to their television contract. Not Wrigley Field. Wrigley Field is a nice draw and all, and I think renovating it was the right thing to do for the organization, but most baseball revenue is built on local television.
The fact they are the most popular team in the third largest media market in the country is how they are making their money these days. If they were located up in Northbrook, their television revenue would be just as valuable.
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Only organizations and fan bases as stupid as the Cubs think it's a good idea to preserve a ballpark that has been about losing, and losing big generally, for over a century.
Yes, Wrigley Field has some built in charm with the bricks and ivy, but they could have easily recreated that in a brand new stadium that would have far greater revenue potential than a ballpark stuck in an old Chicago neighborhood with no room to expand.
You couldn't be more wrong here.
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The issue that Ricketts and Kenney fail to understand is that by continuously making changes to Wrigley Field to "bring it into the modern era," they're actually just destroying the appeal of the franchise's primary money-making asset. If Theo's plan doesn't work out (and I have some serious doubts), in 5 years the Cubs are going to be winning 75 games in a half-empty stadium that's basically the same as everyone else's.
Wrigley obviously needs some renovations but it's the concourses and the Cubs' clubhouse that should be the priority. The bleachers that they just tore down were built in 2007! That's 3 years AFTER parts of the concourse were crumbling and nets needed to be installed.
The clubhouse work has already started and it will be ready prior to the 2016 season. It will be the 2nd largest clubhouse in the league and another selling point for the franchise moving forward.
Anyone ripping this renovation hasn't been pay attention, is an idiot, or both.
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I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!! I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.
And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself. They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.
And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing? But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.
The primary asset will be winning. This is a new ownership group and a new front office. The last 100+ years don't matter. The Cubs have young impact talent on the team and in the high levels of the minors along with a ton of payroll flexibility moving forward. A complete tear down of the team was absolutely necessary and renovating Wrigley makes complete sense. Moving to the suburbs was never seriously considered as it's a moronic idea.
As much, as a I hate the Cardinals they have all the right in the world to talk sh*t to Cubs fans as their consistent success is incredibly impressive, as much as I hate to admit it. However, a smug Brewers fan calling Cubs fans stupid? Good stuff. I'm looking forward to the game on May 9th and the sea of blue that will be up at Wrigley North to watch the Cubs whip the Brew Crew's collective asses.
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I'm a Cubs fan and for 34 years have been essentially embarrassed of it, but I can't find much fault in the way they are doing things now. They are set up to be able to compete regularly and are making good decisions about the ball park. If you think tearing down Wrigley is a good business decision then you very, very wrong.
This year could still be rough, but in a year or two they're going to at least be making noise regularly in the NL. MLB playoffs are a crapshoot anyway, so you just need to get there and see what happens.
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The primary asset will be winning. This is a new ownership group and a new front office. The last 100+ years don't matter. The Cubs have young impact talent on the team and in the high levels of the minors along with a ton of payroll flexibility moving forward. A complete tear down of the team was absolutely necessary and renovating Wrigley makes complete sense. Moving to the suburbs was never seriously considered as it's a moronic idea.
As much, as a I hate the Cardinals they have all the right in the world to talk sh*t to Cubs fans as their consistent success is incredibly impressive, as much as I hate to admit it. However, a smug Brewers fan calling Cubs fans stupid? Good stuff. I'm looking forward to the game on May 9th and the sea of blue that will be up at Wrigley North to watch the Cubs whip the Brew Crew's collective asses.
I'm a Brewer fan, and yeah the new ownership has been great, but really the franchise hasn't really accomplished anything. If they trot out the '82 team any more, I'm gonna puke. Really I only want to see Robin Yount.
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I'm a Brewer fan, and yeah the new ownership has been great, but really the franchise hasn't really accomplished anything. If they trot out the '82 team any more, I'm gonna puke. Really I only want to see Robin Yount.
I was referring to the Cubs ownership, in case I wasn't clear. The Brewers have had a nice run and I've got no issues with the team but I think they might be hard pressed to compete with the Cards, Pirates and Cubs over the next 5+ years. And I say that realizing the Cubs haven't accomplished a thing and their rebuild could go terribly wrong (although I will be stunned if that happens).
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I'm a Cubs fan and for 34 years have been essentially embarrassed of it, but I can't find much fault in the way they are doing things now. They are set up to be able to compete regularly and are making good decisions about the ball park. If you think tearing down Wrigley is a good business decision then you very, very wrong.
This year could still be rough, but in a year or two they're going to at least be making noise regularly in the NL. MLB playoffs are a crapshoot anyway, so you just need to get there and see what happens.
+1. That's why the comments about the historical ineptitude of the franchise annoy me. All that past failure has nothing to do with what the team and franchise might accomplish moving forward.
I'll be the first to admit the over-exuberance surrounding this year's team is over the top but the fan base has been patient and deserves to be excited. And every fan base has it's share of idiots, as well.
Personally, if they are in the wild-card race through September I'll be happy. 2016 and moving forward is when I am expecting big things.
Like you said, make the playoffs 7-8 times every decade and good things are going to eventually happen.
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Lester was on a pitch count last night, and was not going to last late. Knowing he would double-switch early, Maddon wanted to have that bat off the bench not be in the 9th slot. Unusual, but at least there was a thought-process.
Tony always had a thought process, too. He definitely was a fine manager, as is Maddon.
This tends to fall under the "reinvent the wheel" category.
Not only have no other managers done it for 100+ years, but after La Russa gave it a good try, he realized it had poor long-term results.
I'll be curious to see if this was a one-game thing for Maddon for the reasons you explained or if he is planning to reinvent the wheel on a longer-term basis.
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I would actually argue that the Cubs could have a greater attendance with a stadium in the suburbs.
For most suburbanites, it is much easier to watch the Cubs play at Miller Park than Wrigley Field. I know several Cubs fans who haven't gone to Wrigley in years but have seen them play many times at Miller Park. I think the suburbanite crowd you could draw would outnumber the tourist crowd at Wrigley.
That being said, I was there last night with PTM and the new video board blended in nicely. The only thing it blocked was the old Budwiser building so it didn't take away from the feel of Wrigley. You could definitely tell that they were using temporary speakers which weren't the highest quality but that will all get taken care of as the renovations continue with permanent speakers.
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I agreed with your point of it being their primary asset!!! I never remotely stated they print money, generate revenue, etc. simply by being the Cubs.
And you're missing my point, why not make the primary asset WINNING, and the rest will take care of itself. They could build the Taj Mahal of ballparks in the meantime that could generate year round revenue in the form of restaurants and other attractions that are within the new stadium itself, something even a renovated Wrigley won't do.
And everyone is missing my point, so I might as well spell it out, why in the world do you want to hold on to a stadium that has just been years upon years upon years upon years of choking and losing? But then again, I'm only an outsider, I can't think as stupid as the Cubs do.
Do you actually believe the stuff you are writing, or are you just trying to rile up the Cubs fans?
If it's the former, you're not very bright. If it's the latter, well, whatever.... carry on.
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Cubs have a very bright future. This World Series talk is 2 years early, if you ask me.
The majority of Cubs fans are well aware they aren't going to the World Series and likely the playoffs this year. That is all media hype to sell papers and get clicks.
As for the betting in Vegas, I'm sure most people do it to have a betting stub as a momento should they actually win. No different than when people bet on a horse who is going for the triple crown.
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Also as PTM stated, the moment of silence for Tavares was completely unnecessary.
Back in 2002, when the Cubs canceled the game and had a moment of silence for Darryl Kile at the next game, that was the right thing to do. That was an unexpected heart attack.
Oscar Tavares killed himself and his girlfriend driving 6 times over the legal limit. That shouldn't get you a moment of silence.
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They are able to print money due to their television contract. Not Wrigley Field. Wrigley Field is a nice draw and all, and I think renovating it was the right thing to do for the organization, but most baseball revenue is built on local television.
The fact they are the most popular team in the third largest media market in the country is how they are making their money these days. If they were located up in Northbrook, their television revenue would be just as valuable.
Nope.
Why are the Cubs popular and able to negotiate large television contracts? Why do people tune in? Why do people feel a strong attachment to the team?
It's not the history of winning. It's not tradition. It's not one of those things that's always been ... ever go to Wrigley in the 70s? Not exactly a packed house. Heck, in the mid 70s (when they were no worse than they've been for much of this decade), they averaged about 12,000 a game.
Here's why: John McDonough built a wildly successful brand around Harry Caray and Wrigley Field. They made being a Cubs fan was fun and cool. And a huge part of that was Wrigley and the party scene created there, where having a good time wasn't dependent on the result of the game. The bleachers, the scoreboard, the 7th inning stretch, Murphy's pre-game, Cubby Bear post-game, the WGN cameras lingering a little too long on the attractive female fans in tank tops .... that's what it was all about.
None of these factors could be replicated in a modern ballpark in Northbrook.
The Cubs' popularity over the past 3+ decades has been built around the Wrigley experience.
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From a marketing perspective, Wrigley is a key part of the Cubs brand.
It's not unlike the Brewers and tailgating. Certainly an urban stadium would have helped the city more, but in the long run, a big part of the Brewers brand is the parking lot. They need to keep the stadium where it was at.
Anybody that argues that the Cubs should have moved and built a different stadium doesn't understand branding, marketing, or long term revenue potential.
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From a marketing perspective, Wrigley is a key part of the Cubs brand.
It's not unlike the Brewers and tailgating. Certainly an urban stadium would have helped the city more, but in the long run, a big part of the Brewers brand is the parking lot. They need to keep the stadium where it was at.
Anybody that argues that the Cubs should have moved and built a different stadium doesn't understand branding, marketing, or long term revenue potential.
Several years ago, when the Cubs were arguing constantly with the rooftop owners and city honchos who wouldn't even let them put their own money into keeping up the ballpark, a Chicago columnist wrote an intriguing piece about the possibility of the Cubs re-creating Wrigley somewhere in an easy-to-reach northern suburb.
They could have built an almost exact replica of Wrigley, but with all the modern conveniences. They could have surrounded the property with a neighborhood full of bars, restaurants, gift shops and, yes, rooftop decks. Parking facilities, too. And they could have owned it all, keeping every cent of revenue for themselves.
It's hard to believe Cubbie fans -- most of whom are indoctrinated at birth -- wouldn't have embraced such a facility.
I mean, Cubbie fans have been duped for generations into rooting for a team that has never won a pennant in their lifetimes or a championship in their fathers' (and sometimes grandfathers') lifetimes. Lots of Baby Boomers became Cubbie fans long before Wrigley was seen as "cool." As recently as 1997, their attendance was below the NL average.
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Pakuni, I don't disagree with the history and why the Cubs are popular now.
I think that if the Cubs decided to move to Northbrook tomorrow, that the value of the television contract would be the most significant revenue source.
But I do think that you and Canned are right about Wrigley and the brand.
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Several years ago, when the Cubs were arguing constantly with the rooftop owners and city honchos who wouldn't even let them put their own money into keeping up the ballpark, a Chicago columnist wrote an intriguing piece about the possibility of the Cubs re-creating Wrigley somewhere in an easy-to-reach northern suburb.
They could have built an almost exact replica of Wrigley, but with all the modern conveniences. They could have surrounded the property with a neighborhood full of bars, restaurants, gift shops and, yes, rooftop decks. Parking facilities, too. And they could have owned it all, keeping every cent of revenue for themselves.
It's hard to believe Cubbie fans -- most of whom are indoctrinated at birth -- wouldn't have embraced such a facility.
I mean, Cubbie fans have been duped for generations into rooting for a team that has never won a pennant in their lifetimes or a championship in their fathers' (and sometimes grandfathers') lifetimes. Lots of Baby Boomers became Cubbie fans long before Wrigley was seen as "cool." As recently as 1997, their attendance was below the NL average.
But what burb? Evanston? The Metra is nice but if its not off the CTA, it makes things harder. Easy access is key to replicate the experience. And again thats not a small area of space for a whole crafted neighborhood.
I know that WGN was a big piece of crafting my fanship as a kid. Similar to the Braves and TBS all over the South.
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But what burb? Evanston? The Metra is nice but if its not off the CTA, it makes things harder. Easy access is key to replicate the experience. And again thats not a small area of space for a whole crafted neighborhood.
I know that WGN was a big piece of crafting my fanship as a kid. Similar to the Braves and TBS all over the South.
I can't remember the examples that columnist gave. Back then, you maybe could have found the space in a Northbrook or Glenview or Highland Park. Maybe not any more.
It's moot now, anyway. Current management is putting zillions into Wrigley. They're not going anywhere, certainly not in my lifetime.
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I agree with not wanting to hold on to a losing culture. That's how I justify the supporting of all the renovations of the field. Why preserve a poor history. But moving it to the burbs goes beyond that. It's just a terrible idea marketing wise. They are trying to wipe away years of losing, but that doesn't mean making more dumb decisions.
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Lots of Baby Boomers became Cubbie fans long before Wrigley was seen as "cool." As recently as 1997, their attendance was below the NL average.
It's starting to be a long time since going to a Cubs game wasn't considered "cool." 1997 saw the Cubs start 0-14, and they still outdrew over half of the NL teams, (they were below the average largely due to record-breaking crowds in Colorado and a one-year popularity of the Marlins).
The Cubs popularity really took off in 1984; since then the only years they were below the NL average were the terrible 1997, and the last-place, final season before the installation of lights (1987).
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The Cubs have a huge fanbase because of WGN and it's national reach. Not because of Wrigley Field.
Colorado used to have a large Cubs fandom before the Rockies came. That was because they could see all of the games on WGN; not because of Wrigley Field. Why would they care about the atmosphere at a park hundred of miles away that they likely would rarely if ever go to?
Sure there are people that go to Wrigley just to drink and party but the same can be said about Brewer fans who just go to games to tailgate in the parking lot.
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The Cubs have a huge fanbase because of WGN and it's national reach. Not because of Wrigley Field.
Colorado used to have a large Cubs fandom before the Rockies came. That was because they could see all of the games on WGN; not because of Wrigley Field. Why would they care about the atmosphere at a park hundred of miles away that they likely would rarely if ever go to?
Sure there are people that go to Wrigley just to drink and party but the same can be said about Brewer fans who just go to games to tailgate in the parking lot.
But I am not sure that a team is tied as an identity more to its ballpark than the Cubs or Red Sox. And I do think that means something distinct.
I think the only team in the NFL that can remotely mentioned in the same manner are the Packers. Now if the Packers hadn't gotten the Brown County referendum approved 15 years ago, and moved to Menomonee Falls or something, would they still be popular? Most certainly. But something would be lost.
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I agree the Cubs, Red Sox, and Packers all are closely tied to their stadium, but if the Yankees can move from Yankee Stadium, the Packers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. can move from their venues.
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Wrigley is PART of the brand, but not the ONLY part.
Certainly the Cubs could move someplace else, win a lot, and be fine.
McDonald's could eliminate the Big Mac, and they would still sell a ton of food... but the Big Mac is a key part of their entire branding. Losing that is not inconsequential.
What about MU? Everybody LOVES the Warrior name, but how much has it actually hurt MU? No way to know for sure, but maybe it hasn't hurt as much as we all think?
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I agree the Cubs, Red Sox, and Packers all are closely tied to their stadium, but if the Yankees can move from Yankee Stadium, the Packers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. can move from their venues.
If somehow they could build in the same vicinity, I think you're right.
But, moving them out to Downer's Grove would definitely change the vibe.
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What about MU? Everybody LOVES the Warrior name, but how much has it actually hurt MU? No way to know for sure, but maybe it hasn't hurt as much as we all think?
Or, maybe it has hurt more than we all think....
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I agree the Cubs, Red Sox, and Packers all are closely tied to their stadium, but if the Yankees can move from Yankee Stadium, the Packers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. can move from their venues.
Yes, the Cubs absolutely could move away from Wrigley and still be successful.
But why would they? Wrigley is a huge asset to them, a huge part of the team's identity and its popularity. What do they gain by throwing that away?
My guess is that this is something the Ricketts have looked at, and probably the Tribune Company before them, and both decided that the benefits Wrigley offers for their brand (and bottom line)easily outweigh whatever benefits they'd get from moving to a new ballpark with more modern amenities. The fact that they're pouring millions into renovating Wrigley rather than building something new elsewhere is a pretty good indication they've reached that conclusion.
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Colorado used to have a large Cubs fandom before the Rockies came. That was because they could see all of the games on WGN; not because of Wrigley Field. Why would they care about the atmosphere at a park hundred of miles away that they likely would rarely if ever go to
I know this sounds strange, but a day game at Wrigley has always looked awesome on TV. I watch nothing but Extra Innings all summer long, and some stadiums translate to television better than others.
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The Cubs have a huge fanbase because of WGN and it's national reach. Not because of Wrigley Field.
Colorado used to have a large Cubs fandom before the Rockies came. That was because they could see all of the games on WGN; not because of Wrigley Field. Why would they care about the atmosphere at a park hundred of miles away that they likely would rarely if ever go to?
Sure there are people that go to Wrigley just to drink and party but the same can be said about Brewer fans who just go to games to tailgate in the parking lot.
The same people could have seen the the Braves play on TBS (and not in the middle of the afternoon, but at times when people actually were home watching TV). They'd have seen a much more interesting team that won consistently with Hall of Fame players and coaches.
So what made them tune into the Cubs instead?
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If somehow they could build in the same vicinity, I think you're right.
But, moving them out to Downer's Grove would definitely change the vibe.
Not as much as if you moved it to Orland.
;D
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The same people could have seen the the Braves play on TBS (and not in the middle of the afternoon, but at times when people actually were home watching TV). They'd have seen a much more interesting team that won consistently with Hall of Fame players and coaches.
So what made them tune into the Cubs instead?
I think you answered that yourself. The Cubs were on from 1:00-4:00 during the week. A lot of people chose to watch the Cubs because it was better background noise than Sally Jesse Raphael.
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I agree the Cubs, Red Sox, and Packers all are closely tied to their stadium, but if the Yankees can move from Yankee Stadium, the Packers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. can move from their venues.
The Yankees did build a new stadium but they didn't really move - I believe the new stadium was built right next to the old one. That's a key and distinct difference.
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I know this sounds strange, but a day game at Wrigley has always looked awesome on TV. I watch nothing but Extra Innings all summer long, and some stadiums translate to television better than others.
Doesn't sound strange at all. A day game at Wrigley looks awesome in person, too! And I'm a non-Cubbie fan saying that.
Even when the park was completely falling apart and they had to put up nets to catch the concrete falling from the upper deck, the actual field and environs were awesome to behold. Still is, though I really do think the replay board was unnecessary. I doubt it results in one extra fan coming to the park.
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Doesn't sound strange at all. A day game at Wrigley looks awesome in person, too! And I'm a non-Cubbie fan saying that.
Even when the park was completely falling apart and they had to put up nets to catch the concrete falling from the upper deck, the actual field and environs were awesome to behold. Still is, though I really do think the replay board was unnecessary. I doubt it results in one extra fan coming to the park.
I have been there three times. It was nice. But if given a choice between Wrigley and Miller Park, I'm going to choose the latter. Probably in part because of the Brewers, but also I like to have leg room and the assurance that the game will go on rain or shine.
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The same people could have seen the the Braves play on TBS (and not in the middle of the afternoon, but at times when people actually were home watching TV). They'd have seen a much more interesting team that won consistently with Hall of Fame players and coaches.
So what made them tune into the Cubs instead?
The Cubs were on every day long before TBS came along.
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Doesn't sound strange at all. A day game at Wrigley looks awesome in person, too! And I'm a non-Cubbie fan saying that.
Even when the park was completely falling apart and they had to put up nets to catch the concrete falling from the upper deck, the actual field and environs were awesome to behold. Still is, though I really do think the replay board was unnecessary. I doubt it results in one extra fan coming to the park.
I don't think the jumbotron will have a material impact on attendance (the quality of the team will) but it will add to the fan experience. The jumbotron is necessary for the added revenue it will bring in.
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The Cubs were on every day long before TBS came along.
TBS began broadcasting the Braves in 1972 and went cable in 1976.
WGN went cable in 1978.
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TBS began broadcasting the Braves in 1972 and went cable in 1976.
WGN went cable in 1978.
Misunderstanding.
I was talking about being on WGN every day - not just after they went to cable.
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TBS began broadcasting the Braves in 1972 and went cable in 1976.
WGN went cable in 1978.
The Braves also have a large following around the country due to TBS.
As WI_inferiority_complexes pointed out, Cubs games were afternoon games with no other TV competition. Braves games in primetime went against all the top shows.
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The Braves also have a large following around the country due to TBS.
As WI_inferiority_complexes pointed out, Cubs games were afternoon games with no other TV competition. Braves games in primetime went against all the top shows.
Cubs didn't install lights, and don't regularly push to play more night games, because so many people were watching day baseball.
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Cubs didn't install lights, and don't regularly push to play more night games, because so many people were watching day baseball.
Mundane Fact: PK Wrigley initially planned for the Cubs to be the first team to install lights in their stadium but instead donated the supplies to the war effort.
Theo is using the Cubs as an experiment that may make him a Chicago hero forever or may make him just another footnote in Cubs history.
The Ricketts family is in over their heads and Crane Kenney is a complete buffoon. Wrigley was definitely in need of some upgrades on the concourse and clubhouses but the jumbotron and outfield signage is horrid. The appeal of Wrigley is that it's old school baseball without all the bells and whistles and distractions and obnoxious music that other stadiums have. It's a ballpark. That's it. The Ricketts don't get that. Real Cub fans do.
They also aren't helping their cause by continuously being in the middle of PR nightmares like canceling last night's game in mid-afternoon due to "impending weather," which actually just meant that they didn't have the previous PR nightmare (the bathroom situation) sorted out yet.
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Mundane Fact: PK Wrigley initially planned for the Cubs to be the first team to install lights in their stadium but instead donated the supplies to the war effort.
Theo is using the Cubs as an experiment that may make him a Chicago hero forever or may make him just another footnote in Cubs history.
The Ricketts family is in over their heads and Crane Kenney is a complete buffoon. Wrigley was definitely in need of some upgrades on the concourse and clubhouses but the jumbotron and outfield signage is horrid. The appeal of Wrigley is that it's old school baseball without all the bells and whistles and distractions and obnoxious music that other stadiums have. It's a ballpark. That's it. The Ricketts don't get that. Real Cub fans do.
Meh.
They said the same things in Boston about Fenway when they did many of the things that the Cubs are doing with Wrigley, but three World Series later, no one cares. I think the Ricketts are fine and allow Kenney to play the bad-cop role.
The on-field results need to follow, and the Cubs have plenty of young talent in their system. If they make it to a World Series in five years, no one will give a rip about the stadium improvements and Sunday night will be a distant memory.
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Meh.
They said the same things in Boston about Fenway when they did many of the things that the Cubs are doing with Wrigley, but three World Series later, no one cares. I think the Ricketts are fine and allow Kenney to play the bad-cop role.
The on-field results need to follow, and the Cubs have plenty of young talent in their system. If they make it to a World Series in five years, no one will give a rip about the stadium improvements and Sunday night will be a distant memory.
You clearly don't follow the team very closely ;)
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Mundane Fact: PK Wrigley initially planned for the Cubs to be the first team to install lights in their stadium but instead donated the supplies to the war effort.
Theo is using the Cubs as an experiment that may make him a Chicago hero forever or may make him just another footnote in Cubs history.
The Ricketts family is in over their heads and Crane Kenney is a complete buffoon. Wrigley was definitely in need of some upgrades on the concourse and clubhouses but the jumbotron and outfield signage is horrid. The appeal of Wrigley is that it's old school baseball without all the bells and whistles and distractions and obnoxious music that other stadiums have. It's a ballpark. That's it. The Ricketts don't get that. Real Cub fans do.
They also aren't helping their cause by continuously being in the middle of PR nightmares like canceling last night's game in mid-afternoon due to "impending weather," which actually just meant that they didn't have the previous PR nightmare (the bathroom situation) sorted out yet.
This post is wrong on so many levels (aside from Kenney being a jag). Are you a real Cubs fan? If not, I'd recommend not speaking for them.
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The Ricketts family is in over their heads and Crane Kenney is a complete buffoon. Wrigley was definitely in need of some upgrades on the concourse and clubhouses but the jumbotron and outfield signage is horrid. The appeal of Wrigley is that it's old school baseball without all the bells and whistles and distractions and obnoxious music that other stadiums have. It's a ballpark. That's it. The Ricketts don't get that. Real Cub fans do.
It's only all about Wrigley because the Cubs are/have been losers. There was nothing else other than just sitting out in the sun enjoying a game regardless of the results.
If they ever win, Wrigley won't matter. It's cool to go there once - after that you realize what a dump it is.
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This post is wrong on so many levels (aside from Kenney being a jag). Are you a real Cubs fan? If not, I'd recommend not speaking for them.
What was wrong about it?
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It's only all about Wrigley because the Cubs are/have been losers.
I disagree. As was pointed out earlier, Wrigley has (had) an unique allure other parks don't. I really like Miller Park, and don't mind US Cellular, but day games at Wrigley, (which are becoming increasingly more uncommon) were wonderful.
With no piped-in music or fireworks, and very few electronics, the game moved at a comforting pace. I know I sound old for saying that, but Wrigley didn't get lights until '88, only played 18 night games a season until about '04, didn't start playing Taylor Swift between innings until about '07, and has only hosted 9 innings of a JumboTron.
And they didn't always lose. In '84, '89, and '08, they were winning all the time at home. There was steroid-laden hysteria in '98, and the second halves and playoffs of '03 and '07 were very exciting. All without a JumoTron.
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I didn't realize the Cubs game last night was canceled until I was already at the gate. There's no way in hell that was called because of weather; if you don't have enough crappers to host a MLB game, they could've told me earlier in the day.
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It's only all about Wrigley because the Cubs are/have been losers. There was nothing else other than just sitting out in the sun enjoying a game regardless of the results.
If they ever win, Wrigley won't matter. It's cool to go there once - after that you realize what a dump it is.
There literally are millions of people who think going to Wrigley is cool more than once.
It's fine if you're not one of them and don't care for the place. Generally I'm with you. I can take it a couple of times a year and that's about it. It certainly has its flaws. But let's not pretend it doesn't have a huge legion of fans. There's a reason it's nearly always ranked among the best stadium experiences in baseball, and why the Cubs continue to draw attendance figures undeserving of a team with its track record. All those people going to games aren't first-timers.
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I didn't realize the Cubs game last night was canceled until I was already at the gate. There's no way in hell that was called because of weather; if you don't have enough crappers to host a MLB game, they could've told me earlier in the day.
1:23 in the afternoon wasn't early enough?
https://twitter.com/Cubs/status/585508234787745792
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What was wrong about it?
First, I don't think Theo sees it as some grand experiment. They needed to completely tear it down and rebuild it to give the team the chance for a sustained run of success. That's not to say he hasn't enjoyed the opportunity and flexibility that he's had to rebuild the organization. You're describing it like it is some game to feed his ego as opposed to doing what's best for the team and organization and I strongly disagree with that notion. The Cubs could have thrown money at Pujols, Fielder, Hamilton, etc and they would have been right back where they started. Maybe it won't work (although I doubt that) but to me it was absolutely necessary.
The Ricketts have had their share of missteps but I have no doubt they care deeply about the team and want to win. I understand people will have different opinions on the renovation and that's their right. Personally, I feel like the end product will strike a nice balance between the old school charms of Wrigley and the modernization and restoration it so desperately needed. I wouldn't make a final judgment until everything is complete.
I was there opening night and will be there many times this season and I thought the jumbotron looked great. It will be used primarily for stats, replays, and stuff on Cubs history. No kiss cams or any of that stupid crap. Of course everything will be sponsored but if it brings in more revenue to help the team that works for me. The new Budweiser sign didn't bother me in the least, nor will the other signs once they are up.
I'm a die hard Cubs fan and will likely cry like a baby WHEN they make and win the World Series. To say real Cubs fans are opposed to what they are doing at Wrigley is blatantly false. Sure, some do but the majority I have spoke with are completely on board.
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Meh.
They said the same things in Boston about Fenway when they did many of the things that the Cubs are doing with Wrigley, but three World Series later, no one cares. I think the Ricketts are fine and allow Kenney to play the bad-cop role.
The thing about Fenway is other than the scoreboard, all the other upgrades were done in a manner that make it look like they've been there forever. Don't know if the same aesthetic applies to the Cubs. I don't recall Theo being involved in any meaningful way with the Fenway renovations. Anyway, I'm a big guy and if you're a big guy there is no more uncomfortable place to watch a game than Fenway Park.
It's beautiful but I don't go there more than once every couple years even though I'm three hours away and a diehard Red Sox fan.
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The thing about Fenway is other than the scoreboard, all the other upgrades were done in a manner that make it look like they've been there forever. Don't know if the same aesthetic applies to the Cubs. I don't recall Theo being involved in any meaningful way with the Fenway renovations. Anyway, I'm a big guy and if you're a big guy there is no more uncomfortable place to watch a game than Fenway Park.
It's beautiful but I don't go there more than once every couple years even though I'm three hours away and a diehard Red Sox fan.
They installed a big video board right? In the end, I don't think Wrigley will look all that different. Just like when they renovated Lambeau Field, the seating bowl is basically the same.
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BEFORE:
(http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img22073078.jpg)
AFTER:
(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/8Z3J1xYHwypI9wiWppF1Nw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/5ad3272b4eefd70f720f6a706700f3b3.jpg)
I think it's an upgrade aesthetically over a United tarped roof and the Toyota sign.
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They installed a big video board right? In the end, I don't think Wrigley will look all that different. Just like when they renovated Lambeau Field, the seating bowl is basically the same.
Yeah, I said scoreboard but I should have said videoboard. They did a ton of other stuff, mostly adding more seats and advertising space that looks like they've been there forever. They've had a huge board in center since the 80s, just changed it to a nice modern video one.
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BEFORE:
(http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img22073078.jpg)
AFTER:
(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/8Z3J1xYHwypI9wiWppF1Nw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/5ad3272b4eefd70f720f6a706700f3b3.jpg)
I think it's an upgrade aesthetically over a United tarped roof and the Toyota sign.
The big thing is that they've kept the classic out of town scoreboard in center. I love that.
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The big thing is that they've kept the classic out of town scoreboard in center. I love that.
Yep, still is doing all it's same functions as well. The videoboard is for videos and stats only. The scoreboard still tracks strikes, balls and outs. They compliment each other.
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I'm a die hard Cubs fan and will likely cry like a baby WHEN they make and win the World Series.
Fortunately for you, you will never have to shed those tears, just as the vast majority of Cubbie fans' fathers (and grandfathers?) haven't had to do!
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Fortunately for you, you will never have to shed those tears, just as the vast majority of Cubbie fans' fathers (and grandfathers?) haven't had to do!
You've convinced me. I should just stop paying attention now to ease the eventual pain. ::)
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BEFORE:
(http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img22073078.jpg)
AFTER:
(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/8Z3J1xYHwypI9wiWppF1Nw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/5ad3272b4eefd70f720f6a706700f3b3.jpg)
I think it's an upgrade aesthetically over a United tarped roof and the Toyota sign.
Where are the bathrooms and port-a-potties?
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::)
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So many things wrong in this post.
Mundane Fact: PK Wrigley initially planned for the Cubs to be the first team to install lights in their stadium but instead donated the supplies to the war effort. (You got one thing right.)
Theo is using the Cubs as an experiment that may make him a Chicago hero forever or may make him just another footnote in Cubs history. (Rebuilding is not an experiment. They intentionally bottomed out to load up on draft picks and restock the farm system for sustained success. Because hitting is at a premium right now, they have stocked up on hitters rather than pitching.)
The Ricketts family is in over their heads (Since they took over they got Theo, Maddon, the number one farm system in baseball, and a renovated Wrigley)and Crane Kenney is a complete buffoon(It's well known Kenney was kept on to be "the bad guy" on the business side). Wrigley was definitely in need of some upgrades on the concourse and clubhouses but the jumbotron and outfield signage is horrid. The appeal of Wrigley is that it's old school baseball without all the bells and whistles and distractions and obnoxious music that other stadiums have. It's a ballpark. That's it. The Ricketts don't get that. Real Cub fans do. (The Ricketts and the vast majority of Cubs fans would rather see a video board bring in revenue. In fact many Cubs fans would be in favor of a video board even if it didn't bring in revenue. It's actually a very good business move.)
They also aren't helping their cause by continuously being in the middle of PR nightmares like canceling last night's game in mid-afternoon due to "impending weather," which actually just meant that they didn't have the previous PR nightmare (the bathroom situation) sorted out yet. (Baseball games have been postponed based on weather forecasts in Chicago before. The White Sox did the same thing last year and no rain came. It you want to believe they had an motive for canceling the game, wouldn't it be more likely they wanted to push it off to when the bleachers are complete and 3000 more fans could come? The crowd for a night came in the 30's wouldn't create a bathroom issue.)
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If you haven't seen the Wrigley renovation renderings, I recommend checking this link out:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/restore-wrigley/our-vision/ballpark-renderings/
And some photos of the model:
(http://i1.wp.com/gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-model.jpeg?resize=750%2C550)
(http://gamedayrcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-model-1-570x427.jpeg)
(http://gamedayrcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-1-570x427.jpeg)
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I'm looking at right field rooftop tickets in mid-May. I've read that the right field board isn't expected to be completed until July, but anyone know if those views will be any more obstructed in 5 weeks than they are today?
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If you haven't seen the Wrigley renovation renderings, I recommend checking this link out:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/restore-wrigley/our-vision/ballpark-renderings/
And some photos of the model:
(http://i1.wp.com/gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-model.jpeg?resize=750%2C550)
(http://gamedayrcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-model-1-570x427.jpeg)
(http://gamedayrcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/wrigley-field-renovation-1-570x427.jpeg)
I kinda wish they had included little figurines of all the drunks on Clark St.
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I kinda wish they had included little figurines of all the drunks on Clark St.
Burn!
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I'm looking at right field rooftop tickets in mid-May. I've read that the right field board isn't expected to be completed until July, but anyone know if those views will be any more obstructed in 5 weeks than they are today?
I've heard around the All-Star break for the RF board so I think you'd be good in 5 weeks but I am not absolutely positive. The Budweiser sign was already up and I'm not sure if there will be any other signage.
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I'm looking at right field rooftop tickets in mid-May. I've read that the right field board isn't expected to be completed until July, but anyone know if those views will be any more obstructed in 5 weeks than they are today?
What's the rooftop name?
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Tigers finally give up a run. Put that pitcher on waivers!
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White Sox may be the worst team in baseball. Total disaster in first series
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I'm looking at right field rooftop tickets in mid-May. I've read that the right field board isn't expected to be completed until July, but anyone know if those views will be any more obstructed in 5 weeks than they are today?
Which rooftop? Some are in "foul" territory and the infield won't be obstructed regardless of the scoreboard.
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White Sox may be the worst team in baseball. Total disaster in first series
As a Brewers fan, I respectfully disagree. :'(
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White Sox may be the worst team in baseball. Total disaster in first series
Eh, Royals are good. Avi and Abreu looked really good though and dare I say, so did Beckham.
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White Sox may be the worst team in baseball. Total disaster in first series
Nah. They got the Twins and Sale pitching this weekend.
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What's the rooftop name?
Probably Skybox on Sheffield.
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Probably Skybox on Sheffield.
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp21txUuYA1qbkyo1o1_500.gif)
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/475206/wrigley-field-rooftop-owner-charged-ripping-chicago-cubs
(http://i59.tinypic.com/1zydmb8.jpg)
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If the video board and/or it's structure is up, you'll likely be blocked.
It's a shame because Skybox on Sheffield is nice and had a quality view. Instead the owner never played ball with the Cubs and clearly has other issues as well.
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Ha! Thank you. Glad I asked here before I followed through on the purchase.
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Definitely avoid now. Right field board is going up.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCaoS_SW0AAfKO6.jpg:large)
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It's still early, but I'm loving the Fowler addition (not just because of his 2 run shot yesterday). It's just nice to have an actual leadoff hitter.
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It's still early, but I'm loving the Fowler addition (not just because of his 2 run shot yesterday). It's just nice to have an actual leadoff hitter.
He's never gonna be an All-Star, but he is a solid everyday player as opposed to what they have had in the Outfield the last few years. And like you said, a decent lead-off hitter.
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He's never gonna be an All-Star, but he is a solid everyday player as opposed to what they have had in the Outfield the last few years. And like you said, a decent lead-off hitter.
I'll take it. It was sad to think about how excited we got about Bonafacio because of what came before him (Soriano leading off for so many years).
There is such a big difference in what the attitude of this team is. It looks like they are enjoying playing (winning helps), but also you can just feel that if they are down after the 6th they still have a shot. It's been a long time since it's seemed that way. I heard on the radio this morning that its been since 2009 since they've been 2 games over .500. I knew it was bad because I lived it, but that still shocked me.
I don't want to get too worried about Lester at this point, since it's just two games, but ......
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I'll take it. It was sad to think about how excited we got about Bonafacio because of what came before him (Soriano leading off for so many years).
There is such a big difference in what the attitude of this team is. It looks like they are enjoying playing (winning helps), but also you can just feel that if they are down after the 6th they still have a shot. It's been a long time since it's seemed that way. I heard on the radio this morning that its been since 2009 since they've been 2 games over .500. I knew it was bad because I lived it, but that still shocked me.
I don't want to get too worried about Lester at this point, since it's just two games, but ......
There definitely seems to be a different feeling to this team (small sample size applies). I think part of it is Maddon and part of it is they actually have quite a bit of talent. Bryant should be up next week and I'm starting to think we see Russell later this summer.
Lester has too much of a track record to get worried yet. He hasn't looked sharp and his command has been lacking but he seems healthy. If he's still getting hit hard a few starts from now I'll change my tune.
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Heres my problem with Cubs fans. All over facebook people have been posting about how theyre in first place and even taking screen shots of the standings...Were 6 games into the season, relax, the world is still round and the Cubs, are well, still the Cubs.
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Heres my problem with Cubs fans.
This sentence is the worst part of reading sports message boards. Every team has dumb fans. Every single one. You could make a list of the dumb things they do specific to their team. I'm guessing you are a.... White Sox fan?!?!
If I check Ohio boards the posts are "Here is my problem with Reds fans.." The people who are around us and cheer for teams that aren't ours are annoying to us. It's always been true and always will be true. It's just too easy of an argument.
It's why we all rooted for Wisconsin to lose. I don't want to hear them talking crap because I want to be talking crap.
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Lester has too much of a track record to get worried yet. He hasn't looked sharp and his command has been lacking but he seems healthy. If he's still getting hit hard a few starts from now I'll change my tune.
As a life-long Red Sox fan, I really like Lester. I want to point out that his career ERA is 3.61, and he is 31 and not likely to do a lot better than that for the Cubs. I think you should expect 3.40 - 3.60 for a couple years and a fade after that. He's a durable competitor and was spectacular for the Sox in the postseason, but, other than last season, he has never been a #1 type starter during the season. He's a solid, very good pitcher who gives you 200+ innings every year. That's a great thing to have, but it's not like he's Kershaw or something.
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As a life-long Red Sox fan, I really like Lester. I want to point out that his career ERA is 3.61, and he is 31 and not likely to do a lot better than that for the Cubs. I think you should expect 3.40 - 3.60 for a couple years and a fade after that. He's a durable competitor and was spectacular for the Sox in the postseason, but, other than last season, he has never been a #1 type starter during the season. He's a solid, very good pitcher who gives you 200+ innings every year. That's a great thing to have, but it's not like he's Kershaw or something.
I'm certainly not expecting Kershaw or anything close, although I do think the move to the NL should help his numbers. I did read there was a change to his pitch mix/approach last year that might have led to his improved numbers and could be sustainable. However, I doubt he is ever that good again.
The fact that he is durable and has never been a guy who got by on velocity speaks to why he may still be productive towards the end of his contract. Ultimately, I think it was somewhat similar to the Werth signing in DC years ago - a signal to the rest of the league that the Cubs are ready to compete again.
And when the Cubs do make the postseason again I will take my chances with him on the mound based on his past success.
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This sentence is the worst part of reading sports message boards. Every team has dumb fans. Every single one. You could make a list of the dumb things they do specific to their team. I'm guessing you are a.... White Sox fan?!?!
If I check Ohio boards the posts are "Here is my problem with Reds fans.." The people who are around us and cheer for teams that aren't ours are annoying to us. It's always been true and always will be true. It's just too easy of an argument.
It's why we all rooted for Wisconsin to lose. I don't want to hear them talking crap because I want to be talking crap.
+1
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Heres my problem with Cubs fans. All over facebook people have been posting about how theyre in first place and even taking screen shots of the standings...Were 6 games into the season, relax, the world is still round and the Cubs, are well, still the Cubs.
Also, its the latest the Cubs have been in first and/or over .500 in like 5 years. I know with myself and some of my Cubs fans friends, its more jokingly like "ITS HAPPENING" then actually boasting. People who dislike the Cubs or their fans have gotten to the point where any sort of Cubs enthusiasm is greeted with disdain or "yeah, well the Cubs still blow".
The Cubs could finish 15 games under 500 but this is already an infinitely more entertaining team to watch then the last few years.
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They were 0-79 when trailing in the 9th inning last year...the fact that they have 1 win under those circumstances is great!
As stated before, I think most realistic cubs fans are taking these wins with a grain of salt...however games are becoming watchable, and that has fans excited.
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They were 0-79 when trailing in the 9th inning last year...the fact that they have 1 win under those circumstances is great!
As stated before, I think most realistic cubs fans are taking these wins with a grain of salt...however games are becoming watchable, and that has fans excited.
Two wins...under those circumstances.
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Here's my problem with Marquette fans: 85% of what I see on MUScoop.
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Here's my problem with Marquette fans: 85% of what I see on MUScoop.
I've got a solution for you... but it involves vandalizing Topper's car.
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Also, its the latest the Cubs have been in first and/or over .500 in like 5 years. I know with myself and some of my Cubs fans friends, its more jokingly like "ITS HAPPENING" then actually boasting. People who dislike the Cubs or their fans have gotten to the point where any sort of Cubs enthusiasm is greeted with disdain or "yeah, well the Cubs still blow".
The Cubs could finish 15 games under 500 but this is already an infinitely more entertaining team to watch then the last few years.
This Cubs team is pretty much like the 2007 Brewers team. That was the first Brewer teams to finish above .500 since 1992, and had a bright future with Braun winning ROY, Fielder, Gallardo, etc.
They were young, enthusiastic and fun to watch. The next year they won the Wild Card.
I can see why Cub fans are excited.
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I've got a solution for you... but it involves vandalizing Topper's car.
A Chicago Sunroof?
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Does Roenicke make it to the All-Star break?
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Does Roenicke make it to the All-Star break?
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo 3m3 minutes ago
Cardinals defeat Brewers 4-0. The Brewers fall to 2-7 with a run differential of -25, both of which are worst in MLB this season.
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Man, while I do think it is time for a managerial change, I think Melvin is also running out of time. It would be his fourth managerial hire.
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16 runs scored in 9 games. Awesome.
Gennett is not an every day 2nd baseman. Ramirez stuck around a year too long. Segura looks like an average (somewhere between his first half of a season in the MLB and the 1.5 seasons since) contact hitter with good speed but not much more. Lind looks like a solid signing. Braun is no longer on steroids. Davis is okay at hitting the long ball and horrible at everything else. Lucroy and Gomez will be fine, but not as good as last year (only way to go was down for those 2 really).
Not to mention the staff simply isn't great either. Not that that's the biggest problem at this point. But Lohse is getting old but will be fine but far from a #1, same with Garza, Wild Willy I like a lot but still too inconsistent, Nelson had a really good first outing but still an unkown, and Fiers is smoke and mirrors - decent but certainly not great.
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Kris Bryant to make debut Friday.
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Kris Bryant to make debut Friday.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/8b/8bace3c2f9b88f805290583e0f1e809f676d03ccccf6821c390e204b733dd6a5.jpg)
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Man, while I do think it is time for a managerial change, I think Melvin is also running out of time. It would be his fourth managerial hire.
He'll get extended before he gets fired. For some reason Attanasio is enamored with him.
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Kris Bryant to make debut Friday.
Division race is over.
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Does Roenicke make it to the All-Star break?
The fact that they are horrible because they aren't hitting, is why I suspect he'll still be here. Early returns are obviously bad, but I do think this team will ultimately hit and score runs.
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Kris Bryant to make debut Friday.
Merry Krismas, Cubs fans!!
If you were already annoyed with all the attention the Cubs were getting today won't help.
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Bryant wearing #17, following in the hallowed footsteps of Felix Pie and and Bobby Hill! Although we have enough failed prospects in the last decade to probably cover every number.
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Bryant wearing #17, following in the hallowed footsteps of Felix Pie and and Bobby Hill! Although we have enough failed prospects in the last decade to probably cover every number.
I'm trying to think if any other former Cubs wore #17...
(http://www.thisdayinchicagocubshistory.com/images/MarkGrace.jpg)
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Bryant wearing #17, following in the hallowed footsteps of Felix Pie and and Bobby Hill! Although we have enough failed prospects in the last decade to probably cover every number.
At least Hill proved to be a valuable trade piece.
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I'm trying to think if any other former Cubs wore #17...
(http://www.thisdayinchicagocubshistory.com/images/MarkGrace.jpg)
Not familiar.
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At least Hill proved to be a valuable trade piece.
Yup. Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton.
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Just got to thinking bout the Brewers and Doug Melvin, and what appears to be a bad year, coupled with no apparent plan for the future, when it hit me. They have the potential to clean up at the trade deadline this year if they choose to do so. When you look at the likes of Lohse, Garza, Braxton, KRod, ARam, Para, Lind, maybe one or two other bullpen guys, all with contracts expiring this year or next, that is a lot of pieces that could (should) be moved and net pretty decent value in return, and may explain why they did so little/kept their powder dry in the offseason.
It at least gives me hope that there is a plan in place to rebuild the roster, and quite possibly a good one. Now, knowing how things typically go in Brewerland, half those guys will get hurt, and/or they will get hot for a month in June/July and get themselves into imaginary contention and screw the whole thing up.
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Just got to thinking bout the Brewers and Doug Melvin, and what appears to be a bad year, coupled with no apparent plan for the future, when it hit me. They have the potential to clean up at the trade deadline this year if they choose to do so. When you look at the likes of Lohse, Garza, Braxton, KRod, ARam, Para, Lind, maybe one or two other bullpen guys, all with contracts expiring this year or next, that is a lot of pieces that could (should) be moved and net pretty decent value in return, and may explain why they did so little/kept their powder dry in the offseason.
It at least gives me hope that there is a plan in place to rebuild the roster, and quite possibly a good one. Now, knowing how things typically go in Brewerland, half those guys will get hurt, and/or they will get hot for a month in June/July and get themselves into imaginary contention and screw the whole thing up.
I agree with all of this, but I'm not sure I have faith that the Brewers front office really has this planned out. Another name that needs to be coming up as potential trade bait because he will bring back a ton and will get paid a ton in a year and a half is Carlos Gomez...
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The other thing to note with the Brewers and the horrible start...Gomez, Braun, Parra, ARam, Lucroy, and Gennett all hitting .235 or below, and in some cases, 100 pts below (.191 combined). That obviously will not continue for nearly all those guys. The law of averages says there is a lot of hits coming. So, I still see the offense ultimately being pretty decent. More concerning at the moment, is the pitching and fielding, both also 2nd to last in the league.
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Just got to thinking bout the Brewers and Doug Melvin, and what appears to be a bad year, coupled with no apparent plan for the future, when it hit me. They have the potential to clean up at the trade deadline this year if they choose to do so. When you look at the likes of Lohse, Garza, Braxton, KRod, ARam, Para, Lind, maybe one or two other bullpen guys, all with contracts expiring this year or next, that is a lot of pieces that could (should) be moved and net pretty decent value in return, and may explain why they did so little/kept their powder dry in the offseason.
It at least gives me hope that there is a plan in place to rebuild the roster, and quite possibly a good one. Now, knowing how things typically go in Brewerland, half those guys will get hurt, and/or they will get hot for a month in June/July and get themselves into imaginary contention and screw the whole thing up.
With teams holding onto prospects more tightly then ever I'm not sure the Brewers could get any impact prospects for those guys. Gomez would be a different story.
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With teams holding onto prospects more tightly then ever I'm not sure the Brewers could get any impact prospects for those guys. Gomez would be a different story.
Pitching can always net guys. Look at Samardzjia last season, he netted a top 10 prospect. The Rangers got a good haul for Soria, Jake Peavy the year before netted the White Sox Avisail Garcia.
I would guess they could get a decent haul for Lohse, but Garza still has quite a bit of time and money on his deal. The question becomes is 13 million or so for 3 years too much for a .500 pitcher with a career ERA about 4. I wouldn't think he would get too much unless the Brewers ate quite a bit of the money.
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Kris Bryant day #2 was much better.
#BryantWatch
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Kris Bryant day #2 was much better.
#BryantWatch
Beating out that 11th inning grounder was the difference in the game.
Happy for him that he can at least avoid awkward media questions for another day because people keep forgetting that the season is 162 games long.
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And now Addison Russell Day.
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(http://i55.tinypic.com/w6zkg8.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/zwhwYqG.gif)
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Well done
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Soler, Rizzo, and Bryant went 9 - 12 last night with 2 BBs and a HBP, reaching base 12 times. Castro, who is still just 25, went 2 - 4. And Russell is coming up today. My apologies in advance for the crassness but I am going to let Ron Burgundy sum up my current feelings as a Cubs fan:
(https://browntails.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/tumblr_lkuxig8vm01qcshcjo1_500.png)
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-untimely-collapse-of-the-milwaukee-brewers/
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-untimely-collapse-of-the-milwaukee-brewers/
Last paragraph nails it
This is the trap of indecisiveness. The Brewers never could figure out whether they were coming or going, unwilling (or unable) to commit to a rebuild or go full speed ahead on contention. What’s left is a team that was built for mediocrity with a one-in-a-million chance of something more, and what’s come up instead is something considerably less. They’re not nearly as bad as what they’ve shown, it must again be said. But that’s just accelerated the obvious, really. The team that was stuck in the middle now is firmly at the bottom, with no timetable or obvious plan to change that reality.
If you're going to compete, you don't cross your fingers while signing aging pitchers and trying to make a splash with...Adam Lind. And if you don't commit to rebuilding, you're left with a still poor farm system, inadequate trade pieces, and a payroll that is awkwardly high for a small market club not making a real push to compete.
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Two grand slams given up by Fiers tonight.
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Soler-Rizzo-Bryant-Castro come up in the top of the 9th, down 3, and win the game for the Cubs. And Russell went 0-5 with 3 strikeouts. But still.
Cubs infield tonight, Bryant-Castro-Russell-Rizzo, all under 25, all under club control through 2020. Plus Soler and Baez. Yes.
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Frankly I'd be happier if the Crew was doing this with a $35 million payroll. I'll wait to go to another game when stubhub upper decks are $3. Not worth any energy on my part at all.
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Soler-Rizzo-Bryant-Castro come up in the top of the 9th, down 3, and win the game for the Cubs. And Russell went 0-5 with 3 strikeouts. But still.
Cubs infield tonight, Bryant-Castro-Russell-Rizzo, all under 25, all under club control through 2020. Plus Soler and Baez. Yes.
Last night Soler, Rizzo, Bryant and Castro reached base 14 times. Tonight the four of them only reached 11 times. They better get their sh*t together.
Not worried about Russell in the least (not that you were suggesting any worry was warranted).
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Cubs line up can hit top to bottom. Starting pitching has been real good too for the most part. Middle relief and Lester (wtf?) have been shaky.
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Two grand slams given up by Fiers tonight.
Brutal. Left in the 6th. Bad pitching, managing, fielding, but at least some hitting. 0-4 in person this year. Going for #5L tomorrow.
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Cubs line up can hit top to bottom. Starting pitching has been real good too for the most part. Middle relief and Lester (wtf?) have been shaky.
Still have to imagine the dead arm set him back and Lester will be fine.
Losing Grimm and Ramirez has shortened the bullpen. Hopefully Grimm returns soon.
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Soler-Rizzo-Bryant-Castro come up in the top of the 9th, down 3, and win the game for the Cubs. And Russell went 0-5 with 3 strikeouts. But still.
Cubs infield tonight, Bryant-Castro-Russell-Rizzo, all under 25, all under club control through 2020. Plus Soler and Baez. Yes.
Great game. If Pitt had hit that 3 run triple last year, I'd have changed the channel.
It's finally fun to watch them again.
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It's amazing how much more fun baseball season is when your team isn't actively and openly trying to lose.
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It's amazing how much more fun baseball season is when your team isn't actively and openly trying to lose.
I think trying to lose and accomplishing it might be better than your team actually intending to compete yet standing at 2-12 with a run differential 19 runs worse than the next worst team with nothing exciting in the upper levels of the farm. :-\
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Last paragraph nails it
If you're going to compete, you don't cross your fingers while signing aging pitchers and trying to make a splash with...Adam Lind. And if you don't commit to rebuilding, you're left with a still poor farm system, inadequate trade pieces, and a payroll that is awkwardly high for a small market club not making a real push to compete.
Should have went for broke last year and brought in Morneau and Price, because that's where the Brewers ended up anyway -- broke.
Honestly, would anyone even notice if Jimmy Nelson or Wily Peralta wasn't on the team right now?
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This is why I think Melvin is the one that needs to go here. When teams get this bad, they should either have a well stocked farm system either through trades or drafts. The Brewers don't. The Cubs and Astros got real bad, but have hope on the horizon. The Brewers have a bad farm system and still have big contracts to pay. (To be fair, the farm system has been moving up the rankings. Baseball America has them at #19 this year. They were #23 the year before and #29 before that.)
That's on Melvin. A new manager might make for marginal improvements, but it isn't going to turn this ship around.
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This is why I think Melvin is the one that needs to go here. When teams get this bad, they should either have a well stocked farm system either through trades or drafts. The Brewers don't. The Cubs and Astros got real bad, but have hope on the horizon. The Brewers have a bad farm system and still have big contracts to pay. (To be fair, the farm system has been moving up the rankings. Baseball America has them at #19 this year. They were #23 the year before and #29 before that.)
That's on Melvin. A new manager might make for marginal improvements, but it isn't going to turn this ship around.
+1
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The biggest mistake that Melvin made was trying to keep the magic going after the 2011 season. That season was the Brewers' shot and they came up short. Once the season ended, the window closed, primary because Prince was leaving. On top of that, Nyjer, Wolf, Axford and Hawkins weren't going to have career years again at their ages. They were all expendable. Marcum was a fragile pitcher who was also coming off a career year. He could have gotten a decent return that offseason. It's always better to let a player go one year to early as opposed to one year too late.
Now the team is scrambling to remain somewhat relevant because, like Sultan said, they have a bad farm system and big contracts on the books. How much brighter would the future look with Garza and Lohse replaced with a couple of young arms acquired in a deal (easier said that done, I know), to go along with having a 2013 mid-1st rounder in the pipeline (that was given up to sign Lohse).
As it stands now, the worst thing that happened to the Brewers' long-term success may have been making a run in 2011.
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As it stands now, the worst thing that happened to the Brewers' long-term success may have been making a run in 2011.
Perhaps. Then again, I believe to this day that had they kept Aioki last year, they would have been in the playoffs and perhaps the WS. His departure hurt them both in the lineup, and in the OF. They had a bunch of guys who could hit (primarily for power), but few who could get on base. Had he been the left fielder, and lead off hitter, I believe they would have had a much more balanced and consistent lineup, and better defense to go along with good pitching, which could have prevented the horrible losing stretch in the second half that kept them out of the playoffs. Was a huge miscalculation by Melvin.
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Perhaps. Then again, I believe to this day that had they kept Aioki last year, they would have been in the playoffs and perhaps the WS. His departure hurt them both in the lineup, and in the OF. They had a bunch of guys who could hit (primarily for power), but few who could get on base. Had he been the left fielder, and lead off hitter, I believe they would have had a much more balanced and consistent lineup, and better defense to go along with good pitching, which could have prevented the horrible losing stretch in the second half that kept them out of the playoffs. Was a huge miscalculation by Melvin.
This is a gross over-evaluation of a 1.0 WAR player.
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This is a gross over-evaluation of a 1.0 WAR player.
Well, he was a 3 WAR player his years with the Brewers. I think the Brewers biggest problem is owing 110 million dollars to a guy that produced 1 WAR last year, has oddly diminished power, doesn't seem like a SB threat at all anymore, and adds no value defensively.
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This is a gross over-evaluation of a 1.0 WAR player.
Yes, but 1.0 WAR with the Brewers has to be like 16.5 WAR on any other team.
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Yes, but 1.0 WAR with the Brewers has to be like 16.5 WAR on any other team.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/wink.gif)
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First 2-13 team since 98!
Attanasio says Roenicke and Melvin are safe. Blaming it on the players.
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This is a gross over-evaluation of a 1.0 WAR player.
WAR is one thing. Impact on the makeup of a team and a lineup is another. My theory is that aioki's presence in the lineup ultimately has a positive impact on everyone else's WAR, based on where they're batting in the lineup, situation when they're up, runners on base, opposing runners that don't take an extra bases on Khris Davis's puss arm, etc., etc. We'll never know, but I know.
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-scouts-and-stats-agree-kris-bryant-is-going-to-be-dope/
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WAR is one thing. Impact on the makeup of a team and a lineup is another. My theory is that aioki's presence in the lineup ultimately has a positive impact on everyone else's WAR, based on where they're batting in the lineup, situation when they're up, runners on base, opposing runners that don't take an extra bases on Khris Davis's puss arm, etc., etc. We'll never know, but I know.
Aoki has a lot of positive attributes as a player, but if you are insinuating that he has a better than, well, anyone, I would say you are mistaken.
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Aoki has a lot of positive attributes as a player, but if you are insinuating that he has a better than, well, anyone, I would say you are mistaken.
Well, tough to argue with quality, intelligent analysis like that. You've convinced me, Nori Aioki is tne worst player in baseball. The a Brewers were definitely better off with Khris Davis in LF, and batting in the middle of their order last year.
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Well, tough to argue with quality, intelligent analysis like that. You've convinced me, Nori Aioki is tne worst player in baseball. The a Brewers were definitely better off with Khris Davis in LF, and batting in the middle of their order last year.
Interestingly, both Aoki and Davis had exactly 549 PAs last season and both had an oWAR of 1.7.
I'm not saying that Aoki wouldn't have made a positive difference, but it's quite a stretch to claim he was the missing piece to winning the NL pennant.
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Interestingly, both Aoki and Davis had exactly 549 PAs last season and both had an oWAR of 1.7.
I'm not saying that Aoki wouldn't have made a positive difference, but it's quite a stretch to claim he was the missing piece to winning the NL pennant.
Knock it off with the quality, intelligent analysis!
Who even batted leadoff for the Brewers the most? Gomez? Gennett? There's .356 & .320 OBP compared to Aoki's .349. That doesn't justify only winning 31 games after the month of June.
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Knock it off with the quality, intelligent analysis!
Who even batted leadoff for the Brewers the most? Gomez? Gennett? There's .356 & .320 OBP compared to Aoki's .349. That doesn't justify only winning 31 games after the month of June.
My assumption is that the Brewers preferred Davis' power in the middle of the line-up since they had 2013 All-Stars in Gomez and Segura penciled in at 1-2.
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My assumption is that the Brewers preferred Davis' power in the middle of the line-up since they had 2013 All-Stars in Gomez and Segura penciled in at 1-2.
Yep, and that was the mistake they made. Went for power (and strikeouts) throughout the lineup, and also took a major hit defensively. Those extra bases runners take on Khris Davis's terrible arm, and the balls he doesn't get to matter too.
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Yep, and that was the mistake they made. Went for power (and strikeouts) throughout the lineup, and also took a major hit defensively. Those extra bases runners take on Khris Davis's terrible arm, and the balls he doesn't get to matter too.
IIRC, Davis had better defensive metrics than Aoki last season.
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Well, tough to argue with quality, intelligent analysis like that. You've convinced me, Nori Aioki is tne worst player in baseball. The a Brewers were definitely better off with Khris Davis in LF, and batting in the middle of their order last year.
Wow dude, really? How the hell did you get that. I said he is a good player at least twice in This thread. I said he has a bad arm. I must disagree with your very intelligent assessment of my post. Maybe you should let Khris Davis do your reading for you.
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Wow dude, really? How the hell did you get that. I said he is a good player at least twice in This thread. I said he has a bad arm. I must disagree with your very intelligent assessment of my post. Maybe you should let Khris Davis do your reading for you.
My favorite arguments always involve Nori Aoki.
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/ab192bcf5f10c6ffa792fd4da84a8610/tumblr_mqix4gcrvb1qbc6b5o1_1280.jpg)
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Knock it off with the quality, intelligent analysis!
Who even batted leadoff for the Brewers the most? Gomez? Gennett? There's .356 & .320 OBP compared to Aoki's .349. That doesn't justify only winning 31 games after the month of June.
That's just it though, those guys aren't coming out of the lineup, just gonna be hitting in a different spot. When they were so bad in July/Aug, they weren't scoring runs and lost a lot of close games. They needed to have a better constructed and more balanced lineup. once in a while you needed to be able to manufacture a scratch out a run. Did the struggles of Bruan, Segura, etc. play a roll? Of course, but my point is if they score one more run in a couple of those games, or keep one more opponent's run off the board because your defense is better, a guy doesn't take an extra base on your LF horrible arm, and you turn a few of those losses into wins, your season looks very different, you aren't losing 20 out of 25 or whatever the heck they did in one stretch, and you win more than 31 games in the second half.
Like I said, we'll never know, but they have proven that losing begets losing, and that seems to be accentuated when you have 1-8 swing for the home run ball, vs having a couple guys that can get a bunt down, hit a fly ball when needed, hit a ball to the right side when needed. These are all things they were (still are) terrible at doing.
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Wow dude, really? How the hell did you get that. I said he is a good player at least twice in This thread. I said he has a bad arm. I must disagree with your very intelligent assessment of my post. Maybe you should let Khris Davis do your reading for you.
You're right. how could I possibly come to that conclusion when you said...
...if you are insinuating that he has a better than, well, anyone, I would say you are mistaken.
Your words, not mine, so yeah, dude, really.
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First 2-13 team since 98!
Attanasio says Roenicke and Melvin are safe. Blaming it on the players.
I like Attanasio a lot. I think what he has done with the Brewers is nothing short of amazing. ~3million fans a year is not an accident. Playoffs in '08, '11, and probably should have been there last year (though the way this year is going, that is looking like a strike against). That said, What the heck did he fly into town for? "Ronnie, you're doing a helluva job." Are we supposed to feel better, or conclude they aren't the worst team in baseball because he sat in with Bob Uecker for an inning?
I admit I don't really know what he's supposed to do, but when you look around and see the Cardinals, Cubs, and Pirates with plans, philosophies, and farm systems, Doug Melvin looks border line incompetent. You better start positioning that story for your own team if nothing else, or your attendance is going to quickly kill any plans you do come up with.
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You're right. how could I possibly come to that conclusion when you said...
Your words, not mine, so yeah, dude, really.
Haha! You are right, my bad. I apologize. What my brain wanted to type was that if you are insinuating he has a better ARM than anyone you are incorrect.
I humbly apologize for my error.
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Actually, as I think about it, I'd probably get rid of roenickie after they lose today. Will he be around after this season? Unlikely, so go ahead and pull the trigger and at least try to salvage something from this season. As much about last year as it is this year. With whom should he be replaced? Two options...
1) Craig Counsell - has been a candidate for other coaching and managerial jobs, he's already in house, so you don't take as big a hit on Eating roenickie's contract, and fans seem to like him. Seems like he may ultimately have his eye on Melvin's job though.
2) Ozzie Guillen - I am only half joking on this one because the guy is a total nut, but I think it'd be entertaining and would certainly change the culture and atmosphere.
Will it make a diffence? Nah, both would be sort of a gimmick to try to pull some positive out of this season, but they are gonna blow this thing up in six months or less anyway, so what harm can it do?
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IIRC, Davis had better defensive metrics than Aoki last season.
I don't think that's the case. Aioki was 2nd among RFers(UZR) and 14th among all OFers last year.
I'll do you one better as far as impact goes. Had they had Aioki, I don't believe they would have traded for Parra. Instead, I believe they would have gone after a 1B who could hit to improve the lineup, or maybe even both. Would it have made a difference? We'll never know, but they were forced to address an area of weakness that they created in the offseason, and thus were not able to improve the horrible situation at 1B.
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Pretty nice brawl in the Sox-Royals game. The Royals have been very umm fiesty this year. Though they have been hit by a lot of pitches already too.
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The Cubs still look good.
- Lake with a solid first game up.
- Bryant is getting on base and hitting extremely well - lots of walks - without even a home run yet.
- Still a little surprised they decided to bring Russell up so early.
- Will Castro be able to continue his hot start?
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The Cubs still look good.
- Lake with a solid first game up.
- Bryant is getting on base and hitting extremely well - lots of walks - without even a home run yet.
- Still a little surprised they decided to bring Russell up so early.
- Will Castro be able to continue his hot start?
I don't think Castro will continue to hit .340 but if he stays healthy I don't see any reason why he doesn't hit .280-300 with 15-20 HRs. That's incredibly valuable for a shortstop and thus far his defense looks improved as well. At this point I think 2013 was the outlier.
I also think all the additional talent has taken the spotlight off of him and he can just relax and play. The 6th spot in the order is perfect for him and it seems like he's developed a nice relationship with Maddon. It's very easy to forget that he is still only 25 years old.
I was also surprised they brought Russell up this early and while he has struggled a bit thus far he is already starting to look better. I think he'll be just fine. His promotion tells me that they're serious about winning this year and that a playoff spot is within reach.
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Roenicke is out. Waiting until tomorrow to name the "replacement", which suggests not an interim manager? If only Melvin was next.
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Rumored to be Craig Counsell. I wish they would dump Melvin but keep Roenicke. Handed a load of crap this year.
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Counsell to be announced at 10:30.
Roenicke should have been gone at the end of last year. He lets the players run the asylum. His tolerance for fundamental mistakes is inexcusable.
Not sure what I'd do about Doug. I'm not sold on him as a judge of young talent. The front office was much better before Jack Zduriencik left for Seattle.
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Roenicke has a point that they should have done it a week ago when his fate was sealed, before sending him on the road trip. If it was an external hire it makes sense not to bother to get an interim in place for a week, but it's not like it should have taken another week to put Counsell in place. Either way, Melvin needs to go too. Can hope he's just hanging it up at the end of the year. Thing that haunted Roenicke most was the month to six week stretch every year where we were the worst team in baseball and doomed the season- May '13, Aug-Sept '14, April '15. That's typically thought of as being caused by more of a personnel problem than the manager.
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Roenicke has a point that they should have done it a week ago when his fate was sealed, before sending him on the road trip. If it was an external hire it makes sense not to bother to get an interim in place for a week, but it's not like it should have taken another week to put Counsell in place. Either way, Melvin needs to go too. Can hope he's just hanging it up at the end of the year. Thing that haunted Roenicke most was the month to six week stretch every year where we were the worst team in baseball and doomed the season- May '13, Aug-Sept '14, April '15. That's typically thought of as being caused by more of a personnel problem than the manager.
I don't think Ron has anything to complain about and should frankly shut his mouth. He's getting paid.
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Counsell to be announced at 10:30.
Roenicke should have been gone at the end of last year. He lets the players run the asylum. His tolerance for fundamental mistakes is inexcusable.
I don't think he has a tolerance for fundamental mistakes. I think the organization doesn't do a good job from the minors on up on drilling those mistakes out of players. I view this as an organizational failure versus a managerial failure. (Contrast with Yost, who was undoubtedly failing when they let him go.) Counsell will fair no better.
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Counsell to be announced at 10:30.
Roenicke should have been gone at the end of last year. He lets the players run the asylum. His tolerance for fundamental mistakes is inexcusable.
Not sure what I'd do about Doug. I'm not sold on him as a judge of young talent. The front office was much better before Jack Zduriencik left for Seattle.
Amen brother. Guessing there is a correlation between his leaving for Seattle and Brewer farm system decline.
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I don't think he has a tolerance for fundamental mistakes. I think the organization doesn't do a good job from the minors on up on drilling those mistakes out of players. I view this as an organizational failure versus a managerial failure. (Contrast with Yost, who was undoubtedly failing when they let him go.) Counsell will fair no better.
That may be true that organizational development is mostly to blame but I don't think it can be argued that Ron failed to get the most out of players over the last 100 games.
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Does this firing officially start Ventura watch?
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The front office was much better before Jack Zduriencik left for Seattle.
True, although they did give up Lawrie, Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi, and Jeffress to make their playoff run in 2011. Well worth the price, but it did strip the farm system of five top prospects. But yes, several years of bad drafts have also set them back (Eric Arnett anyone?).
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The fundamental problem with the construction of this team is with the concept that we're just aiming to make the playoffs and will see what happens then (to be fair, most Brewers fans are content to just make the playoffs and see what happens). But in doing so, we sell the farm as soon as we get close. Do that 3-4 times for the likes of Sabbathia, Marcum and Greinke, and you'll leave the cupboard bare. Higher profile signings like Lohse and Garza have just masked the fact that Melvin is an atrocious talent evaluator at baseball's lowest levels. Firing Roenicke now before the team improves back to the mean as a .450 ball club is genius because Melvin and Counsell - regardless of his merits as a manager- will benefit in the court of public opinion and the media. I'd say that Melvin has pulled the wool over Mark A's eyes, but I think Mark is fully complicit in this and is fully content with mediocrity.
To be completely honest, the Cubs have been a significantly better version of a small market team over the past several years than have the Brewers (are the Cubs done paying Soriano yet?).
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But in doing so, we sell the farm as soon as we get close. Do that 3-4 times for the likes of Sabbathia, Marcum and Greinke, and you'll leave the cupboard bare. Higher profile signings like Lohse and Garza have just masked the fact that Melvin is an atrocious talent evaluator at baseball's lowest levels.
To be completely honest, the Cubs have been a significantly better version of a small market team over the past several years than have the Brewers (are the Cubs done paying Soriano yet?).
GM does not need to possess this skill himself as long as he has a top notch guy running the farm system. Zdurienczek is a great example. They probably shoulda made him GM when Dean Tylor was fired.
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GM does not need to possess this skill himself as long as he has a top notch guy running the farm system. Zdurienczek is a great example. They probably shoulda made him GM when Dean Tylor was fired.
Fundamentally, the GM must possess this knowledge since he's the one signing off on it. Enough bad moves by your subordinates, and it points to more systematic problems. There are situations where the GM will defer to detailed expertise for someone closer to the field, but he should assume all opinions made by his subordinates as his own.
This is not how it works with the Brewers, but this is how it works in a well run organization. If the people you hire are repeatedly failures, you are probably a failure.
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To be completely honest, the Cubs have been a significantly better version of a small market team over the past several years than have the Brewers (are the Cubs done paying Soriano yet?).
I know that Soriano is a funny joke and all. Also, Hendry outbid himself for him, but Soriano statistically outplayed the contract he was given. There's better ways to make fun of the Cubs than Soriano. See Jackson, Edwin.
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While I still want to throw a fastball into CC's ribs everytime I see a picture of him, I think he could be a solid manager.
However, they just made an organizationally entrenched guy the manager. If he's at least mediocre, he instantly has the fan support. How does Mark A. fire Melvin if he wants to after this season? CC won't be going anywhere and a new GM will have to deal with him as manager. Doesn't sound like a solid situation for a club that should be gutted.
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Roenicke is out. Waiting until tomorrow to name the "replacement", which suggests not an interim manager? If only Melvin was next.
Feel bad for him. Worked with Ron when he was on Mike Scioscia's staff along witih Joe Maddon and Bud Black. An incredible staff. Ron's a good man, but might be more suited as an assistant coach role than the head guy.
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While I still want to throw a fastball into CC's ribs everytime I see a picture of him, I think he could be a solid manager.
However, they just made an organizationally entrenched guy the manager. If he's at least mediocre, he instantly has the fan support. How does Mark A. fire Melvin if he wants to after this season? CC won't be going anywhere and a new GM will have to deal with him as manager. Doesn't sound like a solid situation for a club that should be gutted.
I had that same thought, but this actually signals to me that the rebuild process is officially underway. Melvin is sticking around as GM, and will be extended soon, and they feel Counsell is the guy to be involved and lead it from the dugout. I'm not sure about keeping Doug around, but this hire tells me it's happening.
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God I love Braun. Gets hot, everything feels great, the procedure worked, he's healed and good to go...cools down, all of a sudden the procedure has a "shelf life," the thumb is a problem again, time for another procedure. This is awesome. Going to be fun seeing him out of the lineup a week at a time every month (aka, every time he gets cold).
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God I love Braun. Gets hot, everything feels great, the procedure worked, he's healed and good to go...cools down, all of a sudden the procedure has a "shelf life," the thumb is a problem again, time for another procedure. This is awesome. Going to be fun seeing him out of the lineup a week at a time every month (aka, every time he gets cold).
What? How exactly did he "get hot," osmosis? Did you miss the first month of the season when he most definitely was not hot? Whatever you are saying above makes absolutely no sense. Your contention is what, that he's faking? That a chronic injury cannot flare up?
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What? How exactly did he "get hot," osmosis? Did you miss the first month of the season when he most definitely was not hot? Whatever you are saying above makes absolutely no sense. Your contention is what, that he's faking? That a chronic injury cannot flare up?
Sorry, but he's the one who said he was all good and the thumb is all better. He left no mention of needing a repeat of the procedure every month. Has the guy played through a slump once since he was caught juicing? I can't remember it. I've never seen a star player be so predictably out of the lineup as Ryan Braun since he juiced. 0-5 night? You bet that thumb is hurting like heck! Playing 9 games straight doesn't seem to be a problem when he has 6 dongs though!
Then again, he also stood up in front of the world and blamed someone else for his failed piss sample. So, yes, I'm saying he's "faking" it. I'm sure he has some soreness. But I bet you Jean Segura does too. And Carlos Gomez. Aramis probably has some too. Lucroy I bet does. It's a 162 game season. You're playing dang near every single night for 5 straight months. Guess what, you're going to be sore sometimes. But we don't see those guys out every time they go 0-5.
I was told this procedure worked its miracle. I was told the thumb was healed and Braun would be back to the baseball player we as Brewers fans knew and loved. I was told the lack of PEDs had nothing to do with his poor performance the past 2 seasons and that it was all this thumb injury. And, again, that it was healed so we're all good. The guy's hitting dang near .250. He is a product of PEDs and he can no longer risk taking them. He is a very average RF getting paid $20 million/year on a small market team.
The guy's a POS. Just like the other (former) #8 Milwaukee athlete. The state should just ban that number from its athletics teams.
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From an article last November.
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/braun-offseason-thumb-surgery-made-a-huge-difference-112614
"There's not a plan in place for Braun to undergo another cryotherapy procedure, but he did say it is an option down the road if necessary. Because the surgery has rarely been done on athletes, there's not much history to fall back on."
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From an article last November.
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/braun-offseason-thumb-surgery-made-a-huge-difference-112614
"There's not a plan in place for Braun to undergo another cryotherapy procedure, but he did say it is an option down the road if necessary. Because the surgery has rarely been done on athletes, there's not much history to fall back on."
Fair enough. Didn't see that. I guess my point is if this surgery was such a "huge difference" (it says it right in the title of the article) shouldn't Brauny be back to the .310 career hitter he was and not be needing to take 4 days off monhtly or bi-monthly? He's at .258(?) right now and heading downward. Every time he starts to struggle are we going to see another surgical procedure to cure the thumb where he has to sit out a week?
Thank god we chose to give him 1/5 of the organization's payroll.
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Sorry, but he's the one who said he was all good and the thumb is all better. He left no mention of needing a repeat of the procedure every month. Has the guy played through a slump once since he was caught juicing? I can't remember it. I've never seen a star player be so predictably out of the lineup as Ryan Braun since he juiced. 0-5 night? You bet that thumb is hurting like heck! Playing 9 games straight doesn't seem to be a problem when he has 6 dongs though!
Then again, he also stood up in front of the world and blamed someone else for his failed piss sample. So, yes, I'm saying he's "faking" it. I'm sure he has some soreness. But I bet you Jean Segura does too. And Carlos Gomez. Aramis probably has some too. Lucroy I bet does. It's a 162 game season. You're playing dang near every single night for 5 straight months. Guess what, you're going to be sore sometimes. But we don't see those guys out every time they go 0-5.
I was told this procedure worked its miracle. I was told the thumb was healed and Braun would be back to the baseball player we as Brewers fans knew and loved. I was told the lack of PEDs had nothing to do with his poor performance the past 2 seasons and that it was all this thumb injury. And, again, that it was healed so we're all good. The guy's hitting dang near .250. He is a product of PEDs and he can no longer risk taking them. He is a very average RF getting paid $20 million/year on a small market team.
The guy's a POS. Just like the other (former) #8 Milwaukee athlete. The state should just ban that number from its athletics teams.
Wow, you are completely off the rails on this thing. You're arguments and conclusions make absolutely no sense and completely contradict themselves, so I think I'll just leave you to them. You don't like the guy. That's fine, but this whole thing is just weird.
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Wow, you are completely off the rails on this thing. You're arguments and conclusions make absolutely no sense and completely contradict themselves, so I think I'll just leave you to them. You don't like the guy. That's fine, but this whole thing is just weird.
Not sure what contradicts itself, but okay.
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Fair enough. Didn't see that. I guess my point is if this surgery was such a "huge difference" (it says it right in the title of the article) shouldn't Brauny be back to the .310 career hitter he was and not be needing to take 4 days off monhtly or bi-monthly? He's at .258(?) right now and heading downward. Every time he starts to struggle are we going to see another surgical procedure to cure the thumb where he has to sit out a week?
Thank god we chose to give him 1/5 of the organization's payroll.
Look we know you don't like the guy. No reason to go further than that.
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God I love Braun. Gets hot, everything feels great, the procedure worked, he's healed and good to go...cools down, all of a sudden the procedure has a "shelf life," the thumb is a problem again, time for another procedure. This is awesome. Going to be fun seeing him out of the lineup a week at a time every month (aka, every time he gets cold).
Happened to be looking at the Brewers stats today (God help me.), and got to thinking about the stupid, nonsensical argument above. The guy who takes himself out of the lineup every time he gets cold, leads the Brewers in games played, games started, innings played, and Plate appearances (those numbers also put him in the top 5-10% among all NL players). The massive two game layoff that prompted your odd little rant (and was planned), was preceded by playing in 34 consecutive games, yet he is hitting a whopping .261 on the season, so apparently your definition of getting cold, and his must differ significantly, because he's been cold more than he's been hot, yet there he is in the lineup every day.
You don't like the guy, we get it, but why choose to completely make up some mythical, non-existent reason to criticize him? The only person you make look bad is yourself.
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Happened to be looking at the Brewers stats today (God help me.), and got to thinking about the stupid, nonsensical argument above. The guy who takes himself out of the lineup every time he gets cold, leads the Brewers in games played, games started, innings played, and Plate appearances (those numbers also put him in the top 5-10% among all NL players). The massive two game layoff that prompted your odd little rant (and was planned), was preceded by playing in 34 consecutive games, yet he is hitting a whopping .261 on the season, so apparently your definition of getting cold, and his must differ significantly, because he's been cold more than he's been hot, yet there he is in the lineup every day.
You don't like the guy, we get it, but why choose to completely make up some mythical, non-existent reason to criticize him? The only person you make look bad is yourself.
I guess you missed how white hot he was from May 6 until the month of May. Check when he got cold and when his procedure was planned and get back to me.
Not to mention, you just went back 8 days to bring this back up.
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I guess you missed how white hot he was from May 6 until the month of May. Check when he got cold and when his procedure was planned and get back to me.
Yep, and the season started on April 1st. I guess he decided not to fake an injury that first month and a half when he hit .222 because he knew you were onto him. Again, your assertion that he fakes an injury when he's cold (and the entire Brewer organization, and the media covering the team is in on it) could not possibly be more stupid.
If your tinfoil hat theory is correct, explain to me why on earth didn't he take himself out of the lineup with a fake injury on/before May 5th, when he was at a season low .222?
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I guess you missed how white hot he was from May 6 until the month of May. Check when he got cold and when his procedure was planned and get back to me.
Not to mention, you just went back 8 days to bring this back up.
The procedure was planned ahead of time.
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Check when he got cold and when his procedure was planned and get back to me.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/03/ryan-braun-leaves-brewers-to-undergo-cryotherapy/ (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/03/ryan-braun-leaves-brewers-to-undergo-cryotherapy/)
Doh!
Im sure it's also pure coincidence he missed games around an off day too, huh?
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You are expecting HOT SPORTS TAKES!!!! to be logical????
Silly Navin....
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You are expecting HOT SPORTS TAKES!!!! to be logical????
Silly Navin....
Says the guy who responds to everything I say. Don't like it? Don't respond. Not very hard concept. But you and reinko seem to have trouble with it.
:-*
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/03/ryan-braun-leaves-brewers-to-undergo-cryotherapy/ (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/03/ryan-braun-leaves-brewers-to-undergo-cryotherapy/)
Doh!
Im sure it's also pure coincidence he missed games around an off day too, huh?
...uhh, that says exactly what I said. Hahaha. You just sited an article dated June 3 saying he had hit .293 since the start of May (see: May 6). Thanks for confirming what I just told you.
He hit .293 since exactly when I said, so not exactly cold all year like you said. Check out Braun's numbers the 7 games before the procedure. Or don't. But here's a hint: they ain't pretty.
Thanks for counting up the number of straight games he had played in. Guess what? He was as hot as you could be in that stretch! And when he got cold to end the month and start June? He's out of the lineup! Like I've said all along, and like you've argued he doesn't do! Hahahaha!
Thank you, Benny, for proving my exact point.
DOH!
I'll tell you what, believe Ryan Braun. Believe this guy.
"I want to say thanks to (Brewers vice president of communications) Tyler Barnes. I want to say a special thank you to Michael Weiner and the players association for supporting me through this situation and through this challenge. I want to thank the entire Milwaukee Brewers organization starting with Mark Attanasio, who truly represents everything that’s good about our game today. I want to thank my teammates, many of whom are here today and have supported me through this entire situation. I want to thank my family, my friends, a lot of other players around the league who have supported me and were there for me and who have stood by me throughout the biggest challenge I’ve ever faced in my life. I also want to thank athletes in other sports who have stepped up, shown their support and been there for me. I want to take a moment to especially thank the fans, all the fans who have supported me as well as the fans who withheld judgment as I respected the confidentiality of this case."
"As I’ve previously stated, this is without a doubt the biggest challenge I’ve ever faced in my life, and it’s made it that much more challenging that I’ve had to deal with it publicly. But I truly view this challenge as an opportunity, just as I’ve viewed every other challenge in my life – as an opportunity. I’ve tried to respect this process, even though the confidentiality of the process was breached early on. I’ve tried to handle the entire situation with honor, with integrity, with class, with dignity and with professionalism because that’s who I am and that’s how I’ve always lived my life.
"If I had done this intentionally or unintentionally, I’d be the first one to step up and say, ‘I did it.’ By no means am I perfect, but if I’ve ever made any mistakes in my life I’ve taken responsibility for my actions. I truly believe in my heart, and I would bet my life, that this substance never entered my body at any point.
"I’ve always had tremendous respect for the game of baseball, and part of the reason that I’ve kept quiet throughout the course of this ordeal, and part of the reason why I won’t be able to get into all the details today, is to put the best interests of the game ahead of the best interests of myself. And that hasn’t been easy. There were a lot of times when I wanted to come out and tell the entire story, to attack everybody as I’ve been attacked, as my name’s been dragged through the mud as everything I’ve worked for my entire life was called into question. There were a lot of times I wanted to come out, tell the entire story, but at the end of the day I recognized what’s actually best for the game of baseball and I put that ahead of what was actually best for myself.
"I could have never, ever envisioned being in this position today discussing this subject with you guys. But I truly believe that everything in life happens for a reason. I learned a long time ago to stop questioning life. I believe that everything that’s thrown at us we’re able to handle, and there’s a reason for it. I have yet to figure out exactly what the reason for this is, but I don’t question that.
"I’ve always stood up for what is right. Today is about everybody who’s been wrongly accused, and everybody who’s ever had to stand up for what is actually right. Today isn’t about me, it isn’t just about one player – it’s about all players. It’s about all current players, all future players and everybody who plays the game of baseball.
"Despite the fact there have been many inaccurate, erroneous and completely fabricated stories regarding this issue, I’ve maintained the integrity of the confidentiality of the process. There’s never been a personal medical issue, I’ve never had an STD. Many of the stories that were erroneously reported by the initial network continue to live on, and it’s sad and disappointing that this has become a PR battle and that people continue to leak information that’s inaccurate.
"I will continue to take the high road because that’s who I am, and that’s the way that I’ve lived my life. We won because the truth is on my side. The truth is always relevant, and at the end of the day the truth prevailed. I am a victim of a process that completely broke down and failed the way it was applied to me in this case. As players, we’re held to a standard of 100 percent perfection regarding the program, and everybody else associated with that program should be held to the same standard. We’re a part of a process where you’re 100 percent guilty until proven innocent. It’s opposite of the American judicial system – it’s not an innocent until proven guilty situation. So if we’re held to that standard, it’s only fair that everybody else is held to that exact same standard. With what’s at stake – this is my livelihood, this is my integrity, this is my character, this is everything that I’ve worked for in my life being called into question – we need to make sure that we get it right. If you’re going to be in a position where you’re 100 percent guilty until proven innocent, you can’t mess up. And today’s about making sure that this never happens to anybody else who plays this game.
"The system in the way it was applied to me in this case was fatally flawed. The initial test result in question was on Oct. 1. It was a playoff game. I was made aware of the positive test result on Oct. 19, at which point I had a conversation with the players association. I expressed to them that I have not done anything that could have possibly led to this test result. I told them that I promise you on anything that’s ever meant anything to me in my life – the morals, the values, the virtues by which I’ve lived in my 28 years on this planet – I did not do this. I told them that I would be an open book. I opened up my life to them. I told them I would be more than happy and willing to take any and every test to prove that I did not do this.
"You know, the entire process has really been frustrating for me. It’s been an extremely difficult, challenging time in my life. But at the end of the day, I know the truth. My friends, family, teammates, Milwaukee Brewers organization and everybody who knows me knows the truth. At the point that I told the players association about the positive test, they told me that the test result was three times higher than any number in the history of drug testing. We’ve had this program since, I believe, 2003 or 2004. I don’t know how many tens of thousands of tests there have been. But the fact that there’s a single number that’s three times higher than any number in the history of drug testing made me question the validity of the result. At that point, I was able to prove to them through contemporaneously documented recordings that I literally didn’t gain a single pound. When we’re in Milwaukee we weigh in at least once or twice a week. I was able to prove that I literally didn’t gain a single pound. Our times are recorded every time we run down the line, first to third, first to home. I literally didn’t get one-tenth of a second faster. My workouts have been virtually the exact same for six years. I didn’t get one percent stronger. I didn’t work out any more often. I didn’t have any additional power or any additional arm strength. All of those things are documented contemporaneously, and if anything had changed, I wouldn’t be able to go back and pretend like it didn’t change.
"I initially took a humanistic approach and explained to them, ‘I’m 27 years old, I’m just entering my prime, I have a contract guaranteed for nine more years. I’ve been tested 25 times over the course of my career, at least three times this season prior to this test, and an additional time when I signed my contract, including an extensive physical, blood test – everything you could imagine. I’ve never had any issue. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and they said, ‘That’s great, we believe you. In fact, the other side believes you. None of this makes any sense to anybody.’ At that point they explained to me the way that the process works, and that the burden of proof falls on us to be able to prove objectively what caused the positive test result, or what could have went wrong during the process that could have possibly led to the positive test result.
"So at that point, we start looking into the process. It states in the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment program that all samples shall be taken immediately to FedEx on the day they’re collected absent unusual circumstances. The reason that this is important, typically the only two people in the world who know whose sample it is are us, the donor, and the collector, who receives our urine samples. In my case there was an additional third person, the son of the collector, who just so happened to be the my chaperone on the day that I was tested. The day of the test we had a 1 o’clock game. I provided my sample at about 4:30. There were two other players who provided their samples that day within 10 minutes of mine. The collector left the field at about 5 o’clock. There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at.
"When FedEx received the samples, it then creates a chain of custody at the FedEx location where he eventually brought my sample to. It would have been stored in a temperature-controlled environment, and FedEx is used to handling clinical packaging. But most importantly, you then would become a number and no longer a name. So when we provide our samples, there is a number and no longer a name associated with the sample. That way there can’t be any bias – whether it’s with FedEx, while it’s traveling, at the lab in Montreal, in any way – based on somebody’s race, religion, ethnicity, what team they play for, whatever the case may be. As players, the confidentiality of this process is extremely important. It’s always been extremely important, because the only way for the process to succeed is for the confidentiality and the chain of custody to work.
"Why he didn’t bring it in, I don’t know. On the day that he did finally bring it in, FedEx opened at 7:30. Why didn’t he bring it in until 1:30? I can’t answer that question. Why was there zero documentation? What could have possibly happened to it during that 44-hour period? There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened.
"I want everybody to ask themselves this question: if you guys went to go get a physical, something you’ve done 20-25 other times in your life, and three weeks later and told you that you were terminally ill with a disease, and it made no sense to you. ‘I feel perfectly fine, nothing’s any different than it’s ever been, this doesn’t make any sense,’ and you look back at the process and you find out that your doctor decided to take your urine sample home for a 44-, 48-hour period, there’s no documentation as to what happened. You don’t know if he left it in the trunk of his car, you don’t know where it could have been or what could have potentially happened to it during that period of time. I can assure you that you would never go back to that doctor, and you would demand a re-test.
"When our samples get to the lab in Montreal, they literally handle them like it’s a nuclear weapon. Everything is documented, everything is recorded. Anybody who enters the room where the samples are stored, their names are recorded, they sign for it, they write the time that they’re there. The model of the refrigerator they’re stored in is recorded, the temperature it’s stored at is recorded. Every time they move it, it’s all documented. Contemporaneously documented, and that’s important, again, with what’s at stake – our livelihoods, our integrity, everything we’ve ever worked for in our lives, it’s extremely important that there isn’t room for human error or systematic error.
"We spoke to biochemists and scientists and we asked them, ‘How difficult would it be to tamper with somebody’s sample?’ And their response was that, ‘If they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.’ Again, that’s why it’s so important to get it out of the hands of the only person in the world who knows whose sample it is. As soon as it gets to FedEx, they don’t know whose sample it is. As soon as it gets to the lab, they don’t know whose sample it is. That’s why it’s extremely important.
"Ultimately, as I sit here today, the system worked because I am innocent, and I was able to prove my innocence. After today I look forward to returning my focus to the game of baseball, being able to get back with my teammates, allowing my life to return to some sense of normalcy and focusing on helping our team get back to the post-season.
I’ll try to answer all of your questions, but please respect the fact that I can’t get into many details of the process because it’s supposed to be confidential, and because of potential ongoing litigations and the fact that I am considering all my legal options. There may be some questions I can’t answer.
"Thank you."
You guys are hilarious. I really couldn't care less. Believe him. Take him for his word. Believe that the lack of PEDs has nothing to do with Braun going from a .315 hitter to a .260 hitter. That he was never really injury prone and now he is. Go for it guys. Good for you.
But hey, if you want to come bring this topic back up every 8 days your boy "sports hot takes" will be happy to get a good laugh. Just let me know.
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I mean, it seems like you care a little bit...
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I mean, it seems like you care a little bit...
Sure, when he quotes a post of mine I'm going to respond. Not sure I'm the one who brought up a thread that hadn't been posted in in 8 days...
But you're right, I should not respond to anybody directing a comment at me.
My fault.
:-*
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Holy crap. You still haven't been able to, or even attempted to explain how a guy who fakes an injury and takes himself out of the lineup every time he gets cold, (with the full support of the team and media), played every day for the first month and half of the season while hitting .225. I'll hang up and listen.
Again, my advice would be to dislike him for the things he does, not the things you make up or would like to believe he does (for reasons I will never understand).
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Says the guy who responds to everything I say. Don't like it? Don't respond. Not very hard concept. But you and reinko seem to have trouble with it.
Who says I don't like it? I find you amusing.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0
Of course it was the Cardinals.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0
Of course it was the Cardinals.
We've hit the high point of my baseball season. Can't wait to read Miklasz and Strauss try to defend this one.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0
Of course it was the Cardinals.
This should get interesting.
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Couple this investigation with a Cavs loss tonight and the Hawks last night and its the best sports week in a LONG time for me, both legitimate joy and schadenfreude.
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Couple this investigation with a Cavs loss tonight and the Hawks last night and its the best sports week in a LONG time for me, both legitimate joy and schadenfreude.
+1.
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Looks like it may have been done because of the computer password habits of executives.
I've been down that road before.
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How about the rumor that the Cardinal fans are jumping on the KC All-star bandwagon with the thought it will help give the Cardinals home field for the world series? Can a fanbase be that organized and devious?
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Taking down Sepp Blatter and the St. Louis Cardinals in the same month?
God bless the FBI.
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From Brandon McCarthy's Twitter
"in keeping with baseball tradition, a Houston exec should walk into the STL offices and hit their best front office guy with a fastball"
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Fan is keeping A-rods 3000 hit (home run) ball. Got to love it!
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/06/20/baseball-collector-not-giving-up-alex-rodriguez-milestone-ball/?intcmp=latestnews
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How about the rumor that the Cardinal fans are jumping on the KC All-star bandwagon with the thought it will help give the Cardinals home field for the world series? Can a fanbase be that organized and devious?
I just came home from the K where i was pimped (and obliged) to vote multiple times which got me thinking about the attention the KC voting is getting.
I didn't vote straight Royals, but did vote 5 of 9 Royals because a) the combination of last year and this years performance deserves recognition, b) I'd much rather see Hosmer on first than Cabrera strictly from a hatred of the Tigers (and Hosmer is a "glue" guy that is really good - not great - but any team is better for having him than not), and c) though i'm a Twins fan i'm totally bias in my voting.
but isn't "c" what the MLB allstar vote is about? when big pop markets dominate the roster it's great ratings and good, when a small market dominates it may be rigged.
I've not heard the Cardinal fan base organized to support Royals players but i doubt it. It may be my KC media spin or your NL paranoia (justified) . I think it's more like a starved fan base finally getting a voice.
i do have to admit that there is a bit of me that hopes your rumor is correct because i'd love for the Royals to roll the Cardinals in the Series.
#youngerbrothersyndrome
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aren't cardinal fans (and managers and players) the one who got their panties all in a bunch last year over some tongue in cheek commercials the Brewers made to get fans to vote for the all star game? And then weren't Brewers players the only players who produced for the nl while the cardinals players all played terrible?
keep doing things the right way cards. hacking computers and all.
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aren't cardinal fans (and managers and players) the one who got their panties all in a bunch last year over some tongue in cheek commercials the Brewers made to get fans to vote for the all star game? And then weren't Brewers players the only players who produced for the nl while the cardinals players all played terrible?
keep doing things the right way cards. hacking computers and all.
Yep. They bitched about the ribbon lights at Miller Park too.
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Yep. They bitched about the ribbon lights at Miller Park too.
And the Brewers untucking their jerseys.
And any pitch inside to Pujols.
And the Brewers unclassy walkoff celebrations.
And the Brewers sprinting off the field to celebrate their walkoff in private.
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And the Brewers untucking their jerseys.
And any pitch inside to Pujols.
And the Brewers unclassy walkoff celebrations.
And the Brewers sprinting off the field to celebrate their walkoff in private.
Yep. They bitched about the ribbon lights at Miller Park too.
very true. had forgotten about the sprinting off the field to celebrate in private. that's an outstanding response.
was it carpenter on the mound who yelled an F bomb after striking out t plush, and then t plush responded, and that would've been the end of it with morgan already 1/2 way back to the dugout and his back to the field, yet pujols decided he felt the need to confront morgan and ran all the way across the diamond to start yelling at him?
what a buncha douches. but damnit, they do win.
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very true. had forgotten about the sprinting off the field to celebrate in private. that's an outstanding response.
was it carpenter on the mound who yelled an F bomb after striking out t plush, and then t plush responded, and that would've been the end of it with morgan already 1/2 way back to the dugout and his back to the field, yet pujols decided he felt the need to confront morgan and ran all the way across the diamond to start yelling at him?
what a buncha douches. but damnit, they do win.
If you want to call another team obnoxious douches, it's best to not remind anyone that "T-Plush" was once on your team.
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If you want to call another team obnoxious douches, it's best to not remind anyone that "T-Plush" was once on your team.
Okay, I'll bite. Who's "T-Plush"?
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Nyjer Morgan, ai na?
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Ex-Brewer player/analyst Daryl Hamilton dead in apparent murder-suicide. It seems he was the murder victim.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ex-mlb-player-darryl-hamilton-dies-apparent-murder-164206317--mlb.html
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Well... at least there's some consolation for the Brewers with good news and bad news: the good news is that they finished 2nd in the NL Central in something, the bad news is that they finished slightly behind the Cubs.
The good news for everyone, though.... Cardinals finished dead last.
(http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OG-AE901_COUNT_NS_20150622145827.jpg)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mets-not-so-amazin-at-spelling-and-grammar-1435000005
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Well... at least there's some consolation for the Brewers with good news and bad news: the good news is that they finished 2nd in the NL Central in something, the bad news is that they finished slightly behind the Cubs.
The good news for everyone, though.... Cardinals finished dead last.
(http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OG-AE901_COUNT_NS_20150622145827.jpg)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mets-not-so-amazin-at-spelling-and-grammar-1435000005
(https://lwtc247.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/get-a-brain-morans.jpg)
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Miguel Cabrera out for 6 weeks due to a grade 3 calf strain. Damn. When does MU leave for Italy?
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Miguel Cabrera out for 6 weeks due to a grade 3 calf strain. Damn. When does MU leave for Italy?
Are they in the market for a ginge batting 280?
Edit: he is batting .295 and having a fantastic year, but is - by all accounts - still ginger. Hopefully he continues a great year on someone else's roster.
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Lohse to long relief when Garza is back. Brutal
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You should hear all the wacky trades Met fans are proposing with the Brewers on New York sports talk radio.
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Hopefully they include Lohse.
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Hopefully they include Lohse.
They all involve getting Segarra, Gomez & the return of K-Rod.
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They all involve getting Segarra, Gomez & the return of K-Rod.
Great. I'm sure the Brewers would take Jacob DeGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Kevin Plawecki, and Michael Conforto in exchange for those 3.
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There shouldn't be any untouchables on the Brewers' roster, hey?
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So this Chris Sale guy is pretty good, huh? Too bad the Sox can't hit.
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Twins with the legendary comeback last night!!!
Wish I remembered who was the poster telling me Gardy wasn't an issue SMH
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Twins with the legendary comeback last night!!!
Wish I remembered who was the poster telling me Gardy wasn't an issue SMH
That was me. I contested the problem with the Twins was pitching. Last year their team ERA was 4.57. 15th out of 15 teams in the AL. This year, so far their team ERA is 3.81, 8th in the AL. Surely you can't contest that the entire difference there is Gardy. Not even to mention that last year they had 3 starters hit below .245, now they have 1. Last year they were 14th in the AL in HRs, now they are 7th.
They are getting a better season out of Mauer, Torii Hunter has been a huge upgrade, Plouffe has been more productive, now add Sano to the mix and it is cocktail of reasons the Twinkies are better. But I would still mostly contend that it was pitching. Gibson was their 2nd best pitcher last year with an ERA a shade below 4.50. Every starter on their team has a better ERA than that right now. It is all about pitching.
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And speaking of comebacks, two in a row for the Pirates. Pretty unreal.
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That was me. I contested the problem with the Twins was pitching. Last year their team ERA was 4.57. 15th out of 15 teams in the AL. This year, so far their team ERA is 3.81, 8th in the AL. Surely you can't contest that the entire difference there is Gardy. Not even to mention that last year they had 3 starters hit below .245, now they have 1. Last year they were 14th in the AL in HRs, now they are 7th.
They are getting a better season out of Mauer, Torii Hunter has been a huge upgrade, Plouffe has been more productive, now add Sano to the mix and it is cocktail of reasons the Twinkies are better. But I would still mostly contend that it was pitching. Gibson was their 2nd best pitcher last year with an ERA a shade below 4.50. Every starter on their team has a better ERA than that right now. It is all about pitching.
Yeah it was Gardy and Rick Anderson as I always said. Neil Allen and Molitor have done wonders changing the philosophy. Not just pitching to contact with slow fastballs. Mixing in change ups and developing a split for Pelfrey.
The offense is actually worse in many ways. It's been very streaky and inconsistent. The bullpen is a mess outside of Perk.
Molitor has created a winning atmosphere. He doesn't play favorites with journeymen. He doesn't throw guys under the bus either. Just simply sits them if struggling and plays the hot hand. Also trusts his guys.
He's the only person in the world that though Danny Santana would deliver in the 9th inning vs Soria there.
Molly has actually made a lot of rookie mistakes in game but it's what he does daily for the team.
Hitting and pitching is mostly on those two coaches. Brunansky still sucks and Allen is a huge upgrade. Gardy also wouldn't part with Anderson.
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All-Star game was pretty good. It is the only All-Star game I watch, because it is the only when where the players are going full bore.
deGrom looked like he was a dominating Little League pitcher. Hitters were totally overmatched. I thought he was the most impressive performer of the night.
Also, Trout is a freak. More impressive to me than his home run was his sprint from second to home on Fielder's single to left. I thought he was dead when he was rounding third but he easily beat the throw.
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All-Star game was pretty good. It is the only All-Star game I watch, because it is the only when where the players are going full bore.
deGrom looked like he was a dominating Little League pitcher. Hitters were totally overmatched. I thought he was the most impressive performer of the night.
Also, Trout is a freak. More impressive to me than his home run was his sprint from second to home on Fielder's single to left. I thought he was dead when he was rounding third but he easily beat the throw.
I was pretty pissed off after only watching the game to see Sale pitch.
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I was pretty pissed off after only watching the game to see Sale pitch.
Yeah, that was a strange decision. Ventura made it clear that he didn't want Sale to pitch in the game, but he is exactly the kind of guy that should pitch the most in an all-star game. A great pitcher on a non-contender.
As a Red Sox fan I was treated to Brock Holt (A guy who would only play spradically for the Red Sox if everyone was healthy) pinch-running and playing left field, though he got to bat in the 9th. I just enjoy seeing all the great guys together. I pretty much never watch baseball on TV other than the Red Sox games until the postseason, so I don't see much of those other guys.
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Hahahaha, Phil Rogers is a moron.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense (http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense)
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Hahahaha, Phil Rogers is a moron.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense (http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense)
I would think the only team that would realistically trade for Sale would be the Dodgers, with a package built around Pederson, Seager and Urias.
If the Cubs wanted him, I wouldn't do the deal without Bryant coming back. The Cubs aren't doing that. Who knows, maybe something with Schwarber, Torres, Soler and Edwards would do it.
Sale is just so valuable with his contract and his unreal talent. He pitches as near to Kershaw as anyone and a third the cost.
No one is untouchable, but Sale would really require a haul in return. A historic haul.
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I would think the only team that would realistically trade for Sale would be the Dodgers, with a package built around Pederson, Seager and Urias.
If the Cubs wanted him, I wouldn't do the deal without Bryant coming back. The Cubs aren't doing that. Who knows, maybe something with Schwarber, Torres, Soler and Edwards would do it.
Sale is just so valuable with his contract and his unreal talent. He pitches as near to Kershaw as anyone and a third the cost.
No one is untouchable, but Sale would really require a haul in return. A historic haul.
Baez, McKinney, Edwards and Castro could realistically get the deal done in terms of value. It'll never happen though.
As much as he is valuable, he's also still a giant risk.
Quite frankly the Sox fan in me wants them to trade him, they're not doing crap anytime soon, move him.
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I was pretty pissed off after only watching the game to see Sale pitch.
Then you're pretty much an idiot for watching.
Hahahaha, Phil Rogers is a moron.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense (http://m.mlb.com/news/article/132452926/chris-sale-trade-to-cubs-makes-sense)
This concreted it.
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Baez, McKinney, Edwards and Castro could realistically get the deal done in terms of value. It'll never happen though.
I don't think that would beat every other offer for Sale. If he was made available, you would think there would be quite the bidding war.
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http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/chris-sale-not-getting-traded/
Suggests that it would need a package centered around a guy like Carlos Correa to make Hahn listen.
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http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/chris-sale-not-getting-traded/
Suggests that it would need a package centered around a guy like Carlos Correa to make Hahn listen.
Houston would not trade Correa for Sale. And I don't mean that as a knock on Chris.
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I don't know if any team would be willing to give up what the Sox would deserve for Sale. The contract is insanely team friendly.
For this reason I think he stays with the Sox.
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I don't think that would beat every other offer for Sale. If he was made available, you would think there would be quite the bidding war.
I don't think so either, just trying to stack value.
Hahn's got a talent that could completely revamp the entire organization with one trade. The fanbase will never let it go though.
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Houston would not trade Correa for Sale. And I don't mean that as a knock on Chris.
Completely agree. It just illustrates how the Sox wouldn't be able to get the value for him, because teams don't trade talent like that. Especially if it is cost controlled long term.
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If the Cubs make any sort of significant move, I would have to believe Schwarber has to be the centerpiece. They are more or less stuck with Montero, as he is owed like $35M the next 2.5 years. That's a big non-pitching paycheck to have playing every 5 days. They could of course just eat that, but to make a move they will have to give up something, and unless the plan is to move him to a different position, it seems he is somewhat blocked, but would also bring an extremely nice return. I'd love to see the Brewers make some sort of deal involving Lucroy (who is extremely cheap the next 2+ years) and KRod for Schwarber.
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Go Angels
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If the Cubs make any sort of significant move, I would have to believe Schwarber has to be the centerpiece. They are more or less stuck with Montero, as he is owed like $35M the next 2.5 years. That's a big non-pitching paycheck to have playing every 5 days. They could of course just eat that, but to make a move they will have to give up something, and unless the plan is to move him to a different position, it seems he is somewhat blocked, but would also bring an extremely nice return. I'd love to see the Brewers make some sort of deal involving Lucroy (who is extremely cheap the next 2+ years) and KRod for Schwarber.
Why would the Cubs do that? Schwarber will be a much better hitter than Lucroy. And cheaper. For longer.
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Why would the Cubs do that? Schwarber will be a much better hitter than Lucroy. And cheaper. For longer.
Because right now (and likely for the next year or two), he can't catch and he sure as heck isn't gonna stay in AAA another year or two behind Montero. Defense matters, and if they want to keep Bryant at 3B, Castroat SS and put Schwarber behind the plate, they will kill themselves. They have a WS window that is currently open, or at least opening, and will be for the next couple years. Next year and the year after, for sure, they should be set up as well as any team to win the WS. While they have established a system, it's obviously difficult to predict much beyond that.
Of course the key word in that was if the Cubs make a significant move. We're I them, I would not. With both the Cardinals and pirates in front of them, and built to last, I think the Cubs have the rest of this year and next offseason to adjust the chess pieces a bit more. Not worth rolling the dice with a one game playoff the likley outcome. Even if they win that game, I don't see them winning three series after that this year.
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Because right now (and likely for the next year or two), he can't catch and he sure as heck isn't gonna stay in AAA another year or two behind Montero. Defense matters, and if they want to keep Bryant at 3B, Castroat SS and put Schwarber behind the plate, they will kill themselves. They have a WS window that is currently open, or at least opening, and will be for the next couple years. Next year and the year after, for sure, they should be set up as well as any team to win the WS. While they have established a system, it's obviously difficult to predict much beyond that.
Of course the key word in that was if the Cubs make a significant move. We're I them, I would not. With both the Cardinals and pirates in front of them, and built to last, I think the Cubs have the rest of this year and next offseason to adjust the chess pieces a bit more. Not worth rolling the dice with a one game playoff the likley outcome. Even if they win that game, I don't see them winning three series after that this year.
I see where you are coming from, but if Montero is blocking Schwarber, why would they bring in another catcher in Lucroy? That aren't moving David Ross or Montero - where does Lucroy fit that Schwarber wouldn't?
The Cubs also don't really need KRod. The back end is finally starting to take shape with Motte, Strop, Rondon, and Grimm pitching better.
If the Cubs do anything at the deadline I would assume it would be finding a trade for starting pitching like Shields or Hamels (moving Castro, Vogelbach, and others).
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Crean sucks
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I see where you are coming from, but if Montero is blocking Schwarber, why would they bring in another catcher in Lucroy? That aren't moving David Ross or Montero - where does Lucroy fit that Schwarber wouldn't?
He wouldn't. That's why I said I'd like to see. It would be good for the Brewers. My initial point was that Schwarber is a prime candidate as the centerpiece of any deal. Montero isn't going anywhere which currently leaves Schwarber with nowhere to ply other than AAA. These things tend to work themselves out, but something's gonna have to give.
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Schwarber will be playing outfield as a professional unfortunately. All catcher talk is Cubs trade bait.
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And just like that, Montero out for a month and a half. Schwarber recalled to catch. Like I said, these things tend to work themselves out.
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Crean sucks
This makes me laugh every time.
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I would think the only team that would realistically trade for Sale would be the Dodgers, with a package built around Pederson, Seager and Urias.
If the Cubs wanted him, I wouldn't do the deal without Bryant coming back. The Cubs aren't doing that. Who knows, maybe something with Schwarber, Torres, Soler and Edwards would do it.
Sale is just so valuable with his contract and his unreal talent. He pitches as near to Kershaw as anyone and a third the cost.
No one is untouchable, but Sale would really require a haul in return. A historic haul.
A package built around Pederson, Seager, AND Urias? You're high. Sale is immensely valuable but Friedman might pass out from laughing so hard at a request like that.
The likely resolution is the Sox will value Sale more highly than what teams are willing to pay for him. I'd love to see him on the Cubs but it will never happen for a multitude of reasons.
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A package built around Pederson, Seager, AND Urias? You're high. Sale is immensely valuable but Friedman might pass out from laughing so hard at a request like that.
The likely resolution is the Sox will value Sale more highly than what teams are willing to pay for him. I'd love to see him on the Cubs but it will never happen for a multitude of reasons.
Sale is a once in a generation type player for a franchise. Not even Beuhrle was nearly as good as Sale. Of course they're going to over value him. Think the Dodgers are giving up Kershaw anytime soon? Same with Houston with Dallas.
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Because right now (and likely for the next year or two), he can't catch and he sure as heck isn't gonna stay in AAA another year or two behind Montero. Defense matters, and if they want to keep Bryant at 3B, Castroat SS and put Schwarber behind the plate, they will kill themselves. They have a WS window that is currently open, or at least opening, and will be for the next couple years. Next year and the year after, for sure, they should be set up as well as any team to win the WS. While they have established a system, it's obviously difficult to predict much beyond that.
Of course the key word in that was if the Cubs make a significant move. We're I them, I would not. With both the Cardinals and pirates in front of them, and built to last, I think the Cubs have the rest of this year and next offseason to adjust the chess pieces a bit more. Not worth rolling the dice with a one game playoff the likley outcome. Even if they win that game, I don't see them winning three series after that this year.
You're likely correct in that defensively Schwarber is not ready to catch in the major leagues on a regular basis however he should be able to play some LF as well. It might develop into a situation where he splits time between C and LF depending on matchup. At the end of this year Montero will have 2 years and $28 million left and Ross will have one year left. If the Cubs think Schwarber is ready to contribute neither of those guys will impact their decision.
Based on the mid-season rankings that have just been released Schwarber is a consensus top 10 prospect and immensely valuable. I think he is almost as untouchable as Bryant and Russell are at this point. It will be interesting to see how he is used while Montero is out. And if Montero is out for the full 6 weeks that likely means Schwarber may be up for the remainder of the season.
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Sale is a once in a generation type player for a franchise. Not even Beuhrle was nearly as good as Sale. Of course they're going to over value him. Think the Dodgers are giving up Kershaw anytime soon? Same with Houston with Dallas.
And there is nothing wrong with overvaluing him. But they aren't going to get all three of those guys from the Dodgers or someone like Bryant from the Cubs. It's likely too hard to match up on a deal for a talent on a contract like that.
The Sox need to sell off and build around Sale, Rodon, Quintana and Abreu. The problem is aside from Samardzija all of their other pieces have stunk.
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And there is nothing wrong with overvaluing him. But they aren't going to get all three of those guys from the Dodgers or someone like Bryant from the Cubs. It's likely too hard to match up on a deal for a talent on a contract like that.
The Sox need to sell off and build around Sale, Rodon, Quintana and Abreu. The problem is aside from Samardzija all of their other pieces have stunk.
They should have traded Alexi last year when his vale was the highest it will ever be.
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The Cubs aren't trading Schwarber. He's Theo's favorite of the young guns including Bryant. If there was a deal to be made id like to maybe see a package deal with baez Alcanrtra McKinney and Torres
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The Cubs aren't trading Schwarber. He's Theo's favorite of the young guns including Bryant. If there was a deal to be made id like to maybe see a package deal with baez Alcanrtra McKinney and Torres
Lots of interest in Alcantara and McKinney
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The Cubs aren't trading Schwarber. He's Theo's favorite of the young guns including Bryant. If there was a deal to be made id like to maybe see a package deal with baez Alcanrtra McKinney and Torres
I could see a package deal with some of those guys but certainly not all of them unless you are getting a really good player in his prime under team control for a number of years. Torres and McKinney are the Cubs #2 and #3 prospects now and both have been ranked in the top 50 (Torres in the the top 30) in a number of recent rankings.
The Cubs aren't going to catch St. Louis or Pittsburgh this year so I imagine they'll be cautious in giving away to much for the opportunity at a 1 game playoff.
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Peter Gammons said today that he has no doubt that Schwarber will be a major league catcher.
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The Cubs aren't going to catch St. Louis or Pittsburgh this year so I imagine they'll be cautious in giving away to much for the opportunity at a 1 game playoff.
Correct. They have little to gain this season, and you get far better value in offseason deals. They still have some furniture to rearrange, so with their abundance of money and prospects, They'll make a trade or two, sign a FA or two, and be ready to rock for the next 2-3 years. They will obviously want to start handing out some contracts and buying out arbitration on some of their guys over that period as well, which is another reason to stand pat now, as ithey are probably still soemwhat undecided on who exactly those guys are going to be, beyond Bryant and Russell, in my opinion anyway.
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Correct. They have little to gain this season, and you get far better value in offseason deals. They still have some furniture to rearrange, so with their abundance of money and prospects, They'll make a trade or two, sign a FA or two, and be ready to rock for the next 2-3 years. They will obviously want to start handing out some contracts and buying out arbitration on some of their guys over that period as well, which is another reason to stand pat now, as ithey are probably still soemwhat undecided on who exactly those guys are going to be, beyond Bryant and Russell, in my opinion anyway.
They absolutely won't trade for a rental that they can just sign in FA next year. Any moves they make this year will be minor or for a guy they will have for the next 2-3 years.
I'm sure the Cubs would eventually love to buy out Bryant's and Russell's arb years plus a year or two of free agency but with Boras as their agent that seems unlikely.
Rizzo's contract is absolutely amazing and will provide ridiculous value through 2021.
After this season, Wood will be non-tendered, Wada will likely not be brought back, and Motte may be let go as well. Unless Fowler turns it around in the 2nd half I don't see them extending a qualifying offer. That's around $24-$25 million coming off the books. Unfortunately you still have to pay Edwin Jackson but I could see them eating that next year instead of wasting a roster spot. Obviously other players salaries will go up but I imagine the Cubs are seeing a nice bump in revenue this season and with the increased viewership a new tv deal may be in the offing as well.
Arrieta will be an interesting case. He's clearly the real deal and will be a free agent after the 2017 season. I'm very curious how they handle that situation. At this point, Arrieta is the ace of the team.
Castro is a huge question mark. He's signed to a really good deal but he's also been horrendous offensively this year. The front office won't sell low so hopefully he can bounce back in the 2nd half and improve his value if they do determine they want to move him.
The front office still has a lot of moves to make to fit everything together but with all this young talent and payroll flexibility it's finally a fun time to be a Cubs fan again.
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Peter Gammons said today that he has no doubt that Schwarber will be a major league catcher.
Gammons still thinks Kris Benson is gonna become a Cy Young winner.
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Gammons still thinks Kris Benson is gonna become a Cy Young winner.
Exactly.
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They absolutely won't trade for a rental that they can just sign in FA next year. Any moves they make this year will be minor or for a guy they will have for the next 2-3 years.
The other thing to consider besides not wanting to give up young prospects and talent is that there are certain things that are going to stay in place no matter who you acquire. Russell is going to play everyday. His bat isn't where it needs to be yet, but you're not going to run for one game playoff at the expense of not getting him his AB's. Let it play out, and if you miss the playoffs, it's okay because you were sort of playing with house money this year. Sign Price or Zimmerman... or both, regroup, and come out firing in 2016.
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Sign Price or Zimmerman... or both, regroup, and come out firing in 2016.
Yikes! Both is being very liberal with the Rickett's money. That'll probably be looking at about 55 mil per season for those two. Especially considering the Cubs pitching has been pretty darn strong.
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First home rain out for the Angels last night in over 20 years
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I'm thinkin' it's BO's fault, hey?
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Yikes! Both is being very liberal with the Rickett's money. That'll probably be looking at about 55 mil per season for those two. Especially considering the Cubs pitching has been pretty darn strong.
The Cubs definitely won't sign two big money pitchers this offseason - that's just to much risk with Lester's contract already on the books. Plus they likely only need to fill one spot with Arrieta, Lester, Hammel, and Hendricks under contract for next year.
A small part of me wouldn't be stunned if they look to address that opening via trade and look to get a younger, cheaper pitcher who is under control for a few more years. They may not want to stack huge contracts of over-30 pitchers in back-to-back offseasons. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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The Cubs definitely won't sign two big money pitchers this offseason - that's just to much risk with Lester's contract already on the books. Plus they likely only need to fill one spot with Arrieta, Lester, Hammel, and Hendricks under contract for next year.
A small part of me wouldn't be stunned if they look to address that opening via trade and look to get a younger, cheaper pitcher who is under control for a few more years. They may not want to stack huge contracts of over-30 pitchers in back-to-back offseasons. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
To me they seem like a great fit for Hamels. He would give them another proven post season stud, another great lefty. And even if they can't catch the Cards and Pirates, it wouldn't just be a one year thing. He has what, 4 more years on his deal at a pretty reasonable rate? Seems like a good fit to me.
It is just a matter of Theo being able to cut the cord on some of the minor leaguers.
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Meanwhile, the White Sox and Pirates seem to have a match to me. The Pirates need a replacement for Mercer (out 6-8 weeks) and could use an upgrade at 1st as well.
They could likely get Alexei Ramirez and LaRoche pretty cheaply. Both would be upgrades over what they currently have without too much investment. And if they wanted a little bigger deal, Samardizja would really give them a serious rotation. Cole, Liriano, Burnett and Samardizja would be pretty daunting in a series.
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The Tigers should be sellers this year. Cespedes, Price, Davis, Avila... They have no chance of signing any of the first 3 next year and they are done this year. However, I highly doubt the Mr. Ilitch will let Dombrowski start selling. Astounding how year in and year out this team lacks heart. Lots of talent. No dirtbags willing their team to victory.
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I'm thinkin' it's BO's fault, hey?
Bo Ryan sucks as a dude.....but he is a great coach.
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Bo Ryan sucks as a dude.....but he is a great coach.
Chicos, you must have enjoyed watching the Angels put the final nails in the Red Sox 2015 coffin.
I was in DC this past weekend to see Nationals Park for the first time. Beautiful park, traffic surprisingly good and despite the oppressive heat, watching Kershaw totally dominate a major league lineup was something to see, as was Bryce Harper hitting an absolute bomb off of Jansen in the 9th.
Heading west in August to catch games in Seattle, San Francisco and Oakland.
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Chicos, you must have enjoyed watching the Angels put the final nails in the Red Sox 2015 coffin.
I was in DC this past weekend to see Nationals Park for the first time. Beautiful park, traffic surprisingly good and despite the oppressive heat, watching Kershaw totally dominate a major league lineup was something to see, as was Bryce Harper hitting an absolute bomb off of Jansen in the 9th.
Heading west in August to catch games in Seattle, San Francisco and Oakland.
I enjoyed it more because of the BoTox fans that come to the Halos games each year. So obnoxious. Yankee fans can be a bit much, but they are saints compared to Saux fans. They were very very quiet this weekend, which was great. We went Saturday night in the rain. Yesterday was a bloodbath. Leaving now for the Halos Twins game, which I expect to be very competitive.
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Hope you're sittin' behind the net, ai na?
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I can just hear the front office conversations going on in the Brewers organization right now.
"We're only 10 under .500. We can really make a run at this thing!"
After we trade nobody and a few first year guys play well through the end of the year, the offseason conversations change to, "We were so close! We just need to add one or two little pieces and we're right back in this thing. Is Jerry Hairston Jr. available? We have a lot of young pitching, we can afford to lose one of them, let's give up Jungmann to get him and we should be a Playoff team, and once you're in you could win the whole thing."
Next year comes around, the young guys prove that it was just the fact that nobody had a scouting report on them and they really aren't very good, but we continue to only worry about getting 3 million fans through the gates and if we do that we're in a good spot.
Wash, rinse, repeat, every year.
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Hope you're sittin' behind the net, ai na?
Ended up not going, my wife took my son. I have a presentation to do tonight. Taking a little break to check out Scoop, but he'll protect her if a crazy line drive gets to them.
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I can just hear the front office conversations going on in the Brewers organization right now.
"We're only 10 under .500. We can really make a run at this thing!"
After we trade nobody and a few first year guys play well through the end of the year, the offseason conversations change to, "We were so close! We just need to add one or two little pieces and we're right back in this thing. Is Jerry Hairston Jr. available? We have a lot of young pitching, we can afford to lose one of them, let's give up Jungmann to get him and we should be a Playoff team, and once you're in you could win the whole thing."
Next year comes around, the young guys prove that it was just the fact that nobody had a scouting report on them and they really aren't very good, but we continue to only worry about getting 3 million fans through the gates and if we do that we're in a good spot.
Wash, rinse, repeat, every year.
Not to worry. Heard Gord Ash a day or two ago. He was pretty clear they have absolutely no delusions of trying to salvage this year. Now, weather that can find the right trade partners, and make any decent deals is an entirely different question, and a more difficult thing to do, but I am confident their heads are at least in the right place. I would only move Gomez or Lucroy if someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Otherwise I would be content to wait until the offseason with those guys, when you tend to get better value. Lucroy's position and contract in particular makes him a very valuable commodity. Brewers need to either extend him or trade him, because he doesn't do much for them while they rebuild over the next couple years.
All of that said, the offense has actually turned into what I expected it to be. Coming into the year, I did Think they could have a top 5 offense (with question marks up and down the pitching staff). Unfortunately with the April disaster and all the injuries into May, the season was already over. If they aren't able to make any significant deadline deals, and they continue to hit the rest of the season, then I will start to worry that they might think near-term instead of long-term.
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(http://www.bleachernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kyle-schwarber-hulk.jpg)
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Dumped Ramirez's heine, hey?
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I can just hear the front office conversations going on in the Brewers organization right now.
"We're only 10 under .500. We can really make a run at this thing!"
After we trade nobody and a few first year guys play well through the end of the year, the offseason conversations change to, "We were so close! We just need to add one or two little pieces and we're right back in this thing. Is Jerry Hairston Jr. available? We have a lot of young pitching, we can afford to lose one of them, let's give up Jungmann to get him and we should be a Playoff team, and once you're in you could win the whole thing."
Next year comes around, the young guys prove that it was just the fact that nobody had a scouting report on them and they really aren't very good, but we continue to only worry about getting 3 million fans through the gates and if we do that we're in a good spot.
Wash, rinse, repeat, every year.
Come on now.... if 88 wins gets you there, the Crew only has to go 46-25 over their last 71 games to get the wild card. Every time they win, remove a piece.
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How bout them white Sox, huh?
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How bout them white Sox, huh?
They are in an interesting spot. That is for sure. 2.5 back, with Sale going tonight. Definitely looks like Shark is staying put. Not sure they will or should add, maybe if they can get a more long term solution somewhere, but I'd guess they'll just stand pat and see what happens.
Toronto certainly seems to be going big. They have emptied their farm for Tulo and Price. Pineda goes to the DL, maybe they can even run down the Yanks. Who knows. Their pitching is still suspect after Price and Buehrle.
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MLBTR now reporting the Sox are aggressively pursuing a bat.
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They are in an interesting spot. That is for sure. 2.5 back, with Sale going tonight. Definitely looks like Shark is staying put. Not sure they will or should add, maybe if they can get a more long term solution somewhere, but I'd guess they'll just stand pat and see what happens.
Toronto certainly seems to be going big. They have emptied their farm for Tulo and Price. Pineda goes to the DL, maybe they can even run down the Yanks. Who knows. Their pitching is still suspect after Price and Buehrle.
I've heard the Sox are looking into getting Cespedes. Could be an interesting acquisition - I don't know who they'd trade for him. Wouldn't be surprised if Laroche is involved...I think keeping Shark is the right move now though. Could send the wrong message dumping him especially when they're finally starting to play well.
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Hard to believe that he would be traded within the division. But, if the CWS want to throw a few top prospects at Dombrowski, I am sure he will listen. Pitching in particular.
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False optimism. They are coming off their best streak of the year. It is absolutely not sustainable - especially the hitting.
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False optimism. They are coming off their best streak of the year. It is absolutely not sustrightble - especially the hitting.
"sustrightble"?
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False optimism. They are coming off their best streak of the year. It is absolutely not sustrightble - especially the hitting.
Sustainable, no. But with that being said, they can't hit worse then they did in the beginning of the year. Alexi is a notoriously slow starter, Eaton is returning to his form from last year. Melky, is probably back on the roids if were being honest. Don't know what has happened to Avi but The two rookies Saldano and Sanchez are better than Gillespie and Beckham.
They don't need to score 9 runs a game. When your top 3 pitchers are Sale, Shark and Quintana (ill even throw in Rodon) with Robertson and Duke anchoring the pen 4 runs a game is enough most nights.
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Hard to believe that he would be traded within the division. But, if the CWS want to throw a few top prospects at Dombrowski, I am sure he will listen. Pitching in particular.
Why? He is a rental. The Tigers and Sox have also made trades in very recent memory (Avi and Iglesias as part of the Peavy deal). But again, he is a rental, so it isn't like he would come back to haunt the Tigers.
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False optimism. They are coming off their best streak of the year. It is absolutely not sustrightble - especially the hitting.
They are 21-11 since June 20. So there is more to this than the recent 8 games. Though, that is clearly where their hitting has come alive. But their pitching (starting and pen) is the real deal.
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Soria leaving the Tigers for Pittsburgh. Cespedes, Davis, Alfredo Simon, maybe Avila still to go.
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They are 21-11 since June 20. So there is more to this than the recent 8 games. Though, that is clearly where their hitting has come alive. But their pitching (starting and pen) is the real deal.
Rodon is also only going to get better. His control was the biggest issue earlier this season but he's definitely improved on that.
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"sustrightble"?
Victim of the "a i n a" autocorrect.
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They are 21-11 since June 20. So there is more to this than the recent 8 games. Though, that is clearly where their hitting has come alive. But their pitching (starting and pen) is the real deal.
That's a pace to win 105+ games over a season.
Sorry, but the Sox are not even close to that.
It is not sustai nable.
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That's a pace to win 105+ games over a season.
Sorry, but the Sox are not even close to that.
It is not sustai nable.
I wasn't trying to say that it was. I was merely pointing out that their rise is more than the 7 game winning streak. The other part of the equation is they don't nearly have to play at that pace. Look, they obviously don't have the greatest chance to make the wild card game, but look at their competition.
The teams they are chasing are 1 game or 2 over .500. They aren't world beaters. Maybe the current pace is unsustainable, but they don't need to play at that pace.
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Is it just me, or does there seem to be an extraordinary number of deadline deals this year relative to years past?
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Is it just me, or does there seem to be an extraordinary number of deadline deals this year relative to years past?
Sure seems like there have been a lot. And some really big name players changing addresses.
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Is it just me, or does there seem to be an extraordinary number of deadline deals this year relative to years past?
I felt like last year was a really crazy year at the deadline, but I may just be imagining that. Weren't there 3 or 4 really big blockbusters on the Friday of the deadline?
I think I remember Oakland, maybe Detroit, and maybe 1 other team making big time moves that Friday.
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I felt like last year was a really crazy year at the deadline, but I may just be imagining that. Weren't there 3 or 4 really big blockbusters on the Friday of the deadline?
I think I remember Oakland, maybe Detroit, and maybe 1 other team making big time moves that Friday.
Yeah you are right, both Lester and Price moved that day.
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Big, big week coming up for the Cubs in terms of the wild card race.
I told myself going into the season I would be satisfied if the team was playing meaningful games come August and September so hopefully I can maintain that perspective with all of the impending highs and lows.
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Anybody need a GM? Tigers and Dombrowski part ways. Alex Avila's dad promoted to GM. In a related story, every other catcher in the entire system has been released. ;D
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Anybody need a GM? Tigers and Dombrowski part ways. Alex Avila's dad promoted to GM. In a related story, every other catcher in the entire system has been released. ;D
I find it very interesting that he was released just days after trading Price and Cespedes.
What say you, Tower? You follow the Tigers closer than the rest of us.
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Mr. Ilitch has to sign off on any move, theoretically. Dombrowski and Mr. I had been pretty simpatico since they teamed up. Pure speculation, but perhaps they reached a point where they had a different take on this team, this season, and going forward. Perhaps Mr. I wanted to buy, D wanted to sell. Or, maybe Dombrowski, who's contract was up at the end of the year anyway, had started to put out feelers and Ilitch, who values loyalty very highly, got wind of it and dumped him. Honestly, I was completely wrong-footed on this one and I don't really have a good answer.
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Mr. Ilitch has to sign off on any move, theoretically. Dombrowski and Mr. I had been pretty simpatico since they teamed up. Pure speculation, but perhaps they reached a point where they had a different take on this team, this season, and going forward. Perhaps Mr. I wanted to buy, D wanted to sell. Or, maybe Dombrowski, who's contract was up at the end of the year anyway, had started to put out feelers and Ilitch, who values loyalty very highly, got wind of it and dumped him. Honestly, I was completely wrong-footed on this one and I don't really have a good answer.
It could have very well been a mutual decision. If he's not coming back, no harm in moving on at this point.
Maybe the Brewers could hire him.
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Cubs sweep the Giants to open up a 3.5 game lead for the last wildcard spot, all while starting 4 rookies most days. Arrieta needs to be in the Cy Young conversation.
Keep it going, boys.
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Cubs sweep the Giants to open up a 3.5 game lead for the last wildcard spot, all while starting 4 rookies most days. Arrieta needs to be in the Cy Young conversation.
Keep it going, boys.
There shouldn't even be a conversation. Greinke could be named it today. Has better numbers than Arrieta in everything other than wins and strikeouts. Winning percentage, WHIP, BAA, ERA, hits, runs, earned runs, home runs, walks all favor Greinke.
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There shouldn't even be a conversation. Greinke could be named it today. Has better numbers than Arrieta in everything other than wins and strikeouts. Winning percentage, WHIP, BAA, ERA, hits, runs, earned runs, home runs, walks all favor Greinke.
Arrieta also has better stats when it comes to HBP and wild pitches, jeez. Way to be selective. Arrieta also costs $20MM+ less a year.
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Arrieta also has better stats when it comes to HBP and wild pitches, jeez. Way to be selective. Arrieta also costs $20MM+ less a year.
Haha fair enough. I did not find those 2 stats in my search.
Arietta is having a great year after figuring it out with the Cubs the last 2 and a half years. But he (nor anyone else - AL or NL) is coming close to touching the year Greinke is having.
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There shouldn't even be a conversation. Greinke could be named it today. Has better numbers than Arrieta in everything other than wins and strikeouts. Winning percentage, WHIP, BAA, ERA, hits, runs, earned runs, home runs, walks all favor Greinke.
I said in the conversation - not that he should be the favorite or win it. It's Greinke's to lose as of today.
BTW, there's 50 games left and Arrieta is on fire. Stranger things have happened.
Also, Arrieta has a fantastic beard and Greinke has a ridiculous haircut so that narrows the gap even further.
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Grienke looks like a girls middle school gym teacher.
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I said in the conversation - not that he should be the favorite or win it. It's Greinke's to lose as of today.
BTW, there's 50 games left and Arrieta is on fire. Stranger things have happened.
Also, Arrieta has a fantastic beard and Greinke has a ridiculous haircut so that narrows the gap even further.
Speaking of on fire, I sure wouldn't bet against Kershaw. 1.16 ERA so far since the 2nd half. He has a WHIP of .64 (!!!!). He has a K/BB ratio better than 12. I know I wouldn't be surprised to see Kershaw pass him up.
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Speaking of on fire, I sure wouldn't bet against Kershaw. 1.16 ERA so far since the 2nd half. He has a WHIP of .64 (!!!!). He has a K/BB ratio better than 12. I know I wouldn't be surprised to see Kershaw pass him up.
Agreed. You could probably throw Scherzer and DeGrom into the group, too. Lots of guys having phenomenal years.
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Douglas Melvin is out as GM of the Brewers. I'm hoping Ray Montgomery gets the promotion.
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Melvin gone. Rumor is he did it now because he couldn't face another sweep at the hand of 2015-2020 World Champion Chicago Cubs.
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They should have killed the goat like Cecil when they had the chance.
Now there is no hope for the Cubs.
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Douglas Melvin is out as GM of the Brewers. I'm hoping Ray Montgomery gets the promotion.
This is why it surprised me that CC was the pick for manager. Seemed next in line for GM with where they are looking to go. If you can pry them, we should be targeting someone from our division rivals who have shown the appropriate way to construct a team through player development.
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Douglas Melvin is out as GM of the Brewers. I'm hoping Ray Montgomery gets the promotion.
Has he done good work in that position? I really don't know.
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As evidenced by all the championship teams he's put together, ai na?
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Has he done good work in that position? I really don't know.
He was supposed to be next in line for GM with Diamondbacks before we pried him away to be scouting director. Seems like a sharp guy and thought he was gonna be the guy. Doesn't look like it out of the gate though.
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This is why it surprised me that CC was the pick for manager. Seemed next in line for GM with where they are looking to go. If you can pry them, we should be targeting someone from our division rivals who have shown the appropriate way to construct a team through player development.
Generally a different career path for GMs and managers. I know that a couple years ago, only 3 of the 30 GMs were former players. And those 3 were peripheral players.
Skill set #1 for a GM is player evaluation. That is a skill that needs to be developed and honed. Most former players are not proficient in that area, but I do think it is possible that Counsel may be an exception.
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Players usually don't make very good GMs, I don't think you're missing much on CC there.
They tend to project too much of their game. I think Bill James had an article on this several years ago.
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Dombrowski
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Dombrowski
Please no.
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Please no.
It is a total rebuild, the one thing he has proven he can do well. Is it normal for GMs to get fired mid-season or a coincidence?
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The Brewers would be lucky to get Dombrowski
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Dombrowski wanted a huge pay raise in Detroit. He also always had a much, much higher payroll to work with than he will ever have in Milwaukee.
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Generally a different career path for GMs and managers. I know that a couple years ago, only 3 of the 30 GMs were former players. And those 3 were peripheral players.
Skill set #1 for a GM is player evaluation. That is a skill that needs to be developed and honed. Most former players are not proficient in that area, but I do think it is possible that Counsel may be an exception.
I think the jury is way out on Counsel as a manager much less ready to be a GM of a major league club. I hope that whomever is hired, that they have the ability to pick their manager and that Anastasio doesn't require that they keep on Counsel.
Dombrowski
Rumors are that Jack Zduriencik is going to be fired and that Dombrowski is going to replace him in Seattle.
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I think the jury is way out on Counsel as a manager much less ready to be a GM of a major league club. I hope that whomever is hired, that they have the ability to pick their manager and that Anastasio doesn't require that they keep on Counsel.
Trey quit Phish and works for the Brewers now? Man, he must have really enjoyed that Alpine run over the weekend
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I think the jury is way out on Counsel as a manager much less ready to be a GM of a major league club. I hope that whomever is hired, that they have the ability to pick their manager and that Anastasio doesn't require that they keep on Counsel.
Rumors are that Jack Zduriencik is going to be fired and that Dombrowski is going to replace him in Seattle.
Agreed, but unfortunately it sounds like the new GMs are being told they need to work with Counsel as their manager. I am still baffled at why they would give Counsel a 3 year contract...
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Agreed, but unfortunately it sounds like the new GMs are being told they need to work with Counsel as their manager. I am still baffled at why they would give Counsel a 3 year contract...
Seriously this is the most Brewers move ever. Hire a manager with no experience because he is local and a former Brewer, run the GM out of office, and then demand that the new GM work with this manager. This from the franchise that treats the '82 Brewers like they're the '27 Yankees and Bud Selig like he's some sort of mythic figure.
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Seriously this is the most Brewers move ever. Hire a manager with no experience because he is local and a former Brewer, run the GM out of office, and then demand that the new GM work with this manager. This from the franchise that treats the '82 Brewers like they're the '27 Yankees and Bud Selig like he's some sort of mythic figure.
Yup, exactly. And they are talking about wanting a "young, analytics based" GM. Now watch them go and just promote Gord Ash.
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Seriously this is the most Brewers move ever. Hire a manager with no experience because he is local and a former Brewer, run the GM out of office, and then demand that the new GM work with this manager. This from the franchise that treats the '82 Brewers like they're the '27 Yankees and Bud Selig like he's some sort of mythic figure.
I disagree, Sultan. I think Counsel will be a 20 year manager in the Bigs. He was very highly thought of by a lot of baseball people.
I saw where Eric Byrnes said that in his 11 years as player, he thought Counsel would make the best manager of any guy he played with. The hiring was definitely not a shot in the dark.
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I disagree, Sultan. I think Counsel will be a 20 year manager in the Bigs. He was very highly thought of by a lot of baseball people.
I saw where Eric Byrnes said that in his 11 years as player, he thought Counsel would make the best manager of any guy he played with. The hiring was definitely not a shot in the dark.
I don't necessarily think Counsel won't be a good manager, but what's the rush to sign him to a longer term contract? It's not like other MLB teams were knocking down his door every day in May to get him to sign a contract with them. Bring him in for the rest of the year and see how players react to his style and what kinds of decisions he's making.
Not to mention, you know your GM is in the last year of his contract and you know he's probably not going to be back in that position in the organization after this season. So why are you hiring a new manager to a 3 year contract when you know you're going to be hiring a new GM after the season is over? Ride it out with Roenicke and bring in a GM who can make his own hire at manager. Offer your suggestion that Craig would be a perfect fit during the interview process for all I care, but you probably aren't going to get a very well respected GM to come into Milwaukee saying, "Well, you're going to have a budget of under $120M every year and you must keep this guy as your manager."
I know it might suck, but it's a business. It may seem cutthroat to bring in a GM and give him total control, but the Brewers could learn from what the Bucks did. Under Kohl it was loyalty to everyone and let's just put fans in the stadium (which they failed to do) and compete for that 8 seed to get 2 more home games and see the stars of the 1 seed come into the BC to sweep us. The new owners came in and said thanks for all you did Senator Kohl, we'll take it from here. I hated how they brought in Kidd and didn't even think he'd be a great coach, but their decision proved to be a very good one. And they've given him the reigns despite Hammonds having been around, which has lead to a pretty quick turnaround.
The Brewers need somebody to come in and take the reigns. The organization has fallen behind. Pitching, guys who get on base, speed, and good defense (for the most part) now wins games, not guys who hit .235 with 35 home runs. What the Royals are doing with the Brewer's former manager and having gone to the World Series with their 1-3 hitters in their lineup having been brought in from the Brewers organization just tells you how wrong the Brewers front office has been looking at the game.
Melvin can still be valuable with his knowledge, but it's time to go in a new direction. Maybe Counsel can be a part of that, but it should not be a requirement.
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Seriously this is the most Brewers move ever. Hire a manager with no experience because he is local and a former Brewer, run the GM out of office, and then demand that the new GM work with this manager. This from the franchise that treats the '82 Brewers like they're the '27 Yankees and Bud Selig like he's some sort of mythic figure.
I wouldn't be too worried about it. It doesn't matter. Why hire a new manager now anyway? They are starting on a 2-3 year rebuild. If Counsell doesn't work out, you can replace him at any point in that process. Keeping him for now, is probably the right call, until a new GM has a plan and puts it in motion.
Look at the Cubs, where dale Sveum was obviously hired just to keep the seat warm for a while, or where renteria was fired when someone better came along at the right time. The nanager the next year or two really doesn't matter.
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Rumors are that Jack Zduriencik is going to be fired and that Dombrowski is going to replace him in Seattle.
He would have been the choice hands down if he stayed in MKE. No?
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He would have been the choice hands down if he stayed in MKE. No?
Yes.
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He would have been the choice hands down if he stayed in MKE. No?
Just hopin' Milwaukee doesn't bring him back. His scouting and drafting has been brutal for the Mariners.
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Just hopin' Milwaukee doesn't bring him back. His scouting and drafting has been brutal for the Mariners.
Yup. And I'm not sure the philosophy of the organization would change much if he was brought back, when it really needs to change.
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What's Dean Taylor doing these days?
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In regards to Counsell as manager.
1. I don't think Cousnell would have taken the job on a one year contract, and Brewers think he has good potential as a manager.
2. If I'm a GM I really don't mind a guy who's not your choice starting as manager. Moderate job protection. If things don't start out good, Counsell will be the scape goat, not the new GM.
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What's Dean Taylor doing these days?
That turtlehead had future superstar written all over his forehead, hey?
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Jeffrey Hammonds baby!
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What's Dean Taylor doing these days?
Dean Taylor deserves some credit for the Brewers success of the past few seasons. He also was in the front office of the Royals for a number of years before retiring back in January. The biggest reason he didn't succeed in Milwaukee was the Selig-Preib ownership.
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Dean Taylor deserves some credit for the Brewers success of the past few seasons. He also was in the front office of the Royals for a number of years before retiring back in January. The biggest reason he didn't succeed in Milwaukee was the Selig-Preib ownership.
I actually somewhat agree. I think he was competent but had severe limitations put on him
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Melvin gone. Rumor is he did it now because he couldn't face another sweep at the hand of 2015-2020 World Champion Chicago Cubs.
Note that I got the sweep prediction right and make your wagers for the next six WS now.
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Crean sucks
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Kyle Schwarber is killing it
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Kyle Schwarber is killing it
May wanna check Montero for steroids while you're at it. That dude is having the best month of his career.
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Boy, the NL playoff race sure fizzled out quickly. Only real questions that seem to remain are SF or LA in the West, and where the Pirates and Cubs will play the WC game, and the latter isn't even a particularly interesting question.
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May wanna check Montero for steroids while you're at it. That dude is having the best month of his career.
Maybe a bit of hyperbole there, don't you think?
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This morning I saw this on team logo changes from 1880 to present and thought it was interesting.
Here is every MLB team's logo changes through the years in one GIF
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/check-out-every-mlb-team-s-logo-changes-through-the-years--in-one-gif-064425511.html
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OK I think the MLB needs to go division-less because I think it is unfair that the two NL wild card teams are arguably two of the best three in the league. Here is my modest scheduling solution:
Right now a major league season is 26 weeks long, minus a half-week for the All-Star break. They accomplish this by having:
38 3-game series
10 4-game series
4 2-game series
For any given team:
*28 3 games series home and home with every other team intraleague.
*2 4 game series home and home with designated interleague "rival"
*Remaining 10 3 game series, and 4 2 game series are against all other interleague teams. Home one year, on the road the next. (and vice versa)
*Remaining 8 4 game series are home and home intraleague weighted on previous year results. (First through fifth in each league play each other...sixth through tenth...eleventh through fifteenth.)
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Or just re-seed teams according to record after the regular season.
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Or just re-seed teams according to record after the regular season.
Are you dissing my "bored at work" time-wasting accomplishment?
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*Remaining 8 4 game series are home and home intraleague weighted on previous year results. (First through fifth in each league play each other...sixth through tenth...eleventh through fifteenth.)
You had me until this part. If you are going to do away with divisions because they are unfair, you also can't have schedules where by design you give one team a more difficult schedule than another.
You basically can change some of those 28 3 game series to 4 game series. So your best bet would be to play all the interleague teams 3 times each (one series per year), and 9 of the intraleague teams 8 times and the other 5 of the intraleague teams 9 times.
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You had me until this part. If you are going to do away with divisions because they are unfair, you also can't have schedules where by design you give one team a more difficult schedule than another.
You basically can change some of those 28 3 game series to 4 game series. So your best bet would be to play all the interleague teams 3 times each (one series per year), and six of the intraleague teams 8 times and eight of them 9 times.
Yeah, OK. That makes a lot more sense actually. I guess I didn't mind a mildly weighted schedule, but then thinking about it, 32 out of 162 game is a pretty substantial weight.
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I rather enjoy the Yankees playing Boston, Tampa, Baltimore, & Toronto more than anyone else.
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I rather enjoy the Yankees playing Boston, Tampa, Baltimore, & Toronto more than anyone else.
That's why this will never happen. I imagine the Cubs fans prefer playing the Cards 18 times a year, and Dodgers/Giants, Red Sox/Yankees, etc.
I think the fairest thing would be if they could add two more teams and just have four divisions per league an no wild card. But I don't know where there is a place that can support baseball that doesn't already have a team.
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That's why this will never happen. I imagine the Cubs fans prefer playing the Cards 18 times a year, and Dodgers/Giants, Red Sox/Yankees, etc.
I think the fairest thing would be if they could add two more teams and just have four divisions per league an no wild card. But I don't know where there is a place that can support baseball that doesn't already have a team.
CTWarrior,
Although, I think the 2 Wild Cards per league is working out. Look how many teams are still in the playoff running this season with the hope of landing that second wild card spot. It's keeping more games interesting longer.
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CTWarrior,
Although, I think the 2 Wild Cards per league is working out. Look how many teams are still in the playoff running this season with the hope of landing that second wild card spot. It's keeping more games interesting longer.
You are right, of course. But the fairest thing and the most exciting/interesting thing are not necessarily the same thing. MLB wants whatever format that will maximize attendance and interest.
The absolute fairest thing would be to play a 174 game schedule with no playoffs where everybody plays everybody else 3 times each home and away. Similar to the EPL. But when you are trying fill ballparks every day for 6 months it would be tough when 90% of your teams don't have a realistic chance at the best record by the All-Star break.
The second wild-card was a over-reaction to the fact that wild card teams were doing very well in the postseason and consequently teams who had wild card berths were not pushing to win the division but were rather setting themselves up for the postseason. When you think about it, it seems dumb and arbitrary to automatically penalize the wild card since in most seasons the best 2nd place team in a 3 division alignment will be better than the worst first place team.
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If they keep the current set up in terms of division winners and wild cards, they need to look into a way to expand the wild card round to 3 games (which still isn't ideal).
As a Cubs fan who has suffered through the rebuild (which was the right approach), it's tough to take that there's a good chance that the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the NL (and 3rd and 4th best in baseball) may have to play each other in a win-or-go-home scenario for the right to play the best team in baseball.
I say this knowing that it doesn't play out this way every season and that things could still change over the last 40 games this season.
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If they keep the current set up in terms of division winners and wild cards, they need to look into a way to expand the wild card round to 3 games (which still isn't ideal).
As a Cubs fan who has suffered through the rebuild (which was the right approach), it's tough to take that there's a good chance that the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the NL (and 3rd and 4th best in baseball) may have to play each other in a win-or-go-home scenario for the right to play the best team in baseball.
I say this knowing that it doesn't play out this way every season and that things could still change over the last 40 games this season.
I kind of like the one game. Makes it important to win your division. I kind of think you should be at a disadvantage as a wild card against a division winner. Winning that division over the march of a season should have a reward.
Logistically I think it would be difficult to make 3 games work. That just leaves too much time for the other teams to sit and wait. Also the schedule would be hard to work out. 1-1-1? That's alot of travel. 2-1? Then the team with the better record may have to play a deciding game on the road. 1-2? The better team starts on the road.
I like the one game. At first I thought the drama would be a little forced, and maybe it is, but I think it plays out well. It is that true playoff. Win or go home.
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I kind of like the one game. Makes it important to win your division. I kind of think you should be at a disadvantage as a wild card against a division winner. Winning that division over the march of a season should have a reward.
Logistically I think it would be difficult to make 3 games work. That just leaves too much time for the other teams to sit and wait. Also the schedule would be hard to work out. 1-1-1? That's alot of travel. 2-1? Then the team with the better record may have to play a deciding game on the road. 1-2? The better team starts on the road.
I like the one game. At first I thought the drama would be a little forced, and maybe it is, but I think it plays out well. It is that true playoff. Win or go home.
In other words, a crapshoot, a'ina?
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No. It is a playoff. You know, winner goes on. Like the NCAA tournament, or the Superbowl.
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I kind of like the one game. Makes it important to win your division. I kind of think you should be at a disadvantage as a wild card against a division winner. Winning that division over the march of a season should have a reward.
Logistically I think it would be difficult to make 3 games work. That just leaves too much time for the other teams to sit and wait. Also the schedule would be hard to work out. 1-1-1? That's alot of travel. 2-1? Then the team with the better record may have to play a deciding game on the road. 1-2? The better team starts on the road.
I like the one game. At first I thought the drama would be a little forced, and maybe it is, but I think it plays out well. It is that true playoff. Win or go home.
When your team has a better record than either of the two other division winners that doesn't hold water to me. I don't disagree that is is great theater but the Cubs and Pirates look like they are going to be punished for being in a great division as it stands today. As a Cubs fan I am clearly biased but I don't think the current setup is ideal.
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When your team has a better record than either of the two other division winners that doesn't hold water to me. I don't disagree that is is great theater but the Cubs and Pirates look like they are going to be punished for being in a great division as it stands today. As a Cubs fan I am clearly biased but I don't think the current setup is ideal.
Hey, it is still better than going home as your team would have 3 years ago right? They are being punished for not being the best team in their division.
I think the divisions are a logistical necessity. Doing away with them would put teams on either coast at an extreme disadvantage. Teams like Seattle and Miami are already disadvantages with their travel schedule. Eliminating divisions and unbalances schedules would make it very hard on those teams.
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When your team has a better record than either of the two other division winners that doesn't hold water to me. I don't disagree that is is great theater but the Cubs and Pirates look like they are going to be punished for being in a great division as it stands today. As a Cubs fan I am clearly biased but I don't think the current setup is ideal.
Fine. One wild card, 4 best of 5 Division Series, followed by 2 best of 7 Championship Series, and 1 Best of 7 World Series. Cubs are out of the picture, Pirates play the winner of the West, Cardinals and Mets play, and nobody complains. Better?
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Fine. One wild card, 4 best of 5 Division Series, followed by 2 best of 7 Championship Series, and 1 Best of 7 World Series. Cubs are out of the picture, Pirates play the winner of the West, Cardinals and Mets play, and nobody complains. Better?
Nope, but a predictable response. Regardless, you won't have to worry about potential playoff scenarios for quite a while.
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Frustrating season for the Tigers this season. Last night was a very pleasant interlude. Verlander looking like the Verlander of old. So close to a no-no.
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Nope, but a predictable response. Regardless, you won't have to worry about potential playoff scenarios for quite a while.
Then why are you complaining?
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Frustrating season for the Tigers this season. Last night was a very pleasant interlude. Verlander looking like the Verlander of old. So close to a no-no.
Wonder if Kate was there for da post game wrap up and such, hey?
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Bully for him if she was.
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Wonder if Kate was there for da post game wrap up and such, hey?
She was at Wrigley for their series against the Cubs. I think she travels well.
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Then why are you complaining?
There's a difference between complaining and having a conversation regarding a set up that I don't think is ideal. A one-game playoff is a crapshoot and if you end with the 2nd or 3rd best record in the AL or NL I don't believe that result makes sense. The same goes for the Pirates, assuming they aren't able to catch St. Louis. Maybe the current set up ultimately is the best option but I think it deserves conversation. That's hardly complaining. Of course, you hate everything related to Chicago sports so your response isn't much of a surprise.
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There's a difference between complaining and having a conversation regarding a set up that I don't think is ideal. A one-game playoff is a crapshoot and if you end with the 2nd or 3rd best record in the AL or NL I don't believe that result makes sense. The same goes for the Pirates, assuming they aren't able to catch St. Louis. Maybe the current set up ultimately is the best option but I think it deserves conversation. That's hardly complaining. Of course, you hate everything related to Chicago sports so your response isn't much of a surprise.
My response had absolutely nothing to do with Chicago sports. My response has to do with the current format. You complained about it, so I asked if you preferred the old way, when your team would be out of the Playoffs all together. That's fine if you think that's just me hating all things Chicago sports, but in reality, that's what baseball was for my entire life until the last 3 years.
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My response had absolutely nothing to do with Chicago sports. My response has to do with the current format. You complained about it, so I asked if you preferred the old way, when your team would be out of the Playoffs all together. That's fine if you think that's just me hating all things Chicago sports, but in reality, that's what baseball was for my entire life until the last 3 years.
Fair enough but questioning the format of something and thinking it can be improved is not complaining or bitching for the sake of bitching. Of course any fan would want an additional opportunity to make the playoffs but the doesn't mean the current system doesn't have room for improvement and can't be discussed.
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Fair enough but questioning the format of something and thinking it can be improved is not complaining or bitching for the sake of bitching. Of course any fan would want an additional opportunity to make the playoffs but the doesn't mean the current system doesn't have room for improvement and can't be discussed.
Sure it can be discussed on how to improve it, but is there ever going to be a system that is perfect and everyone is happy with? You can argue that one team with a better record than another team shouldn't have to play in a 1 game playoff while the other team is already in a Divisional series, but then we can also get into whether playing the Brewers and Cubs outweighs having to play the Cardinals and Pirates more often than any other teams or if it's easier to play the Giants, Padres, Diamondbacks, and Rockies more than any other teams. Records don't come in a vacuum.
The only way it could possibly all be "fair" in baseball (or any sport) is if every team plays every other team an even amount of times both at home and on the road, and that's how champions are determined. Boring.
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In other words, a crapshoot, a'ina?
Baseball is a much different sport than basketball or football. The worst team in baseball will beat the best team about 1 out of 3. A single baseball game is much more of a crapshoot than other sprots, which is why baseball traditionally uses series.
As long as there are divisions playoff determination will not be completely fair. Any solution anyone comes up with using a division format will have supporters and detractors, and neither side will really be wrong. So you just move on with the rules in place.
The extra wild card kicks off the playoffs with do or die games, and people tend to like those, I'd rather see the two or four best teams in each league battle it out in 7 game series, but I understand why things are the way they are.
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I'm fine with keeping it mostly as-is. As has been said, it'll never be completely fair. And a situation like this year--with the top three in one division--is unusual (I assume--please feel free to prove me wrong and call me dumb), but I wish they'd tweak the divisional series matchups.
The top team should play the worst team in the NLDS, but you can't re-seed after the WC game because of scheduling. Instead, if both WC teams have better records than one of the division winners, that division winner becomes seed #4 and the WC winner becomes #3 (or #2 if it's like this year.)
It's a small change that I assume would rarely come into play, but it's helpful. If the standings remain the same, it means winner of Pirates/Cubs gets the Mets, while the Dodgers face STL.
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It's a small change that I assume would rarely come into play, but it's helpful. If the standings remain the same, it means winner of Pirates/Cubs gets the Mets, while the Dodgers face STL.
That makes sense. As it stands now, after the wild card game, the NL's best team will play its second or third best team and the fourth best team will play the fifth best team.
I'd make a slight change to your suggestion. Simply have the two wild cards play and then slot the winner of the game in with the other 3 team based on record. They get their punishment by having to win a play-in game (and probably use their ace), but then they are fairly seeded from there if they survive. If they have the second best record, they get the second seed, and so on.
With the current format, while you are punishing the wild card by making them play a play in game and then forcing them to play the best team, it seems to me your priority should be first to provide the best team with the easiest path and make all subsequent scheduling decisions from there, so that the Cards get to start with the weakest record in the playoffs.
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Baseball is a much different sport than basketball or football. The worst team in baseball will beat the best team about 1 out of 3. A single baseball game is much more of a crapshoot than other sprots, which is why baseball traditionally uses series.
As long as there are divisions playoff determination will not be completely fair. Any solution anyone comes up with using a division format will have supporters and detractors, and neither side will really be wrong. So you just move on with the rules in place.
The extra wild card kicks off the playoffs with do or die games, and people tend to like those, I'd rather see the two or four best teams in each league battle it out in 7 game series, but I understand why things are the way they are.
I was being a smarty pants. I agree, a series is definitely better for baseball. The problem is the logistics. even a three game series, day off before, one day off during, and a day off after, the division winners are waiting 6 days to play. That doesn't seem ideal.
I do kind of like the one game format. I think it is fun and exciting. It rewards the division winners. Isn't that what it was supposed to do? If the wild card teams don't want to be in a one game playoff, win the division. The Cards smashed the pirates when they last played. The Pirates could have really made things interesting, but they Cards won. The Cubs didn't separate themselves from the pack until after the break. The Cards have dominated, through injuries, all season. The Dodgers, the same. The Mets have been great lately. They have the benefit of being in a down division, though at the beginning of the year, no one could have predicted where the Nats would be.
Also keep in mind, both teams in the World Series last year were Wild Card teams. Maybe it isn't as bad as it seems.
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Well, I believe I speak for most people here on what would be the ideal compromise...
Change the system annually to make it impossible for the Cardinals to actually win anything.
Who's with me???
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Well, I believe I speak for most people here on what would be the ideal compromise...
Change the system annually to make it impossible for the Cardinals to actually win anything.
Who's with me???
I'm game.
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Well, I believe I speak for most people here on what would be the ideal compromise...
Change the system annually to make it impossible for the Cardinals to actually win anything.
Who's with me???
That's easy. Stop putting the best teams in the playoffs and you will easily eliminate the Cards.
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I honestly don't get how the Cardinals do it. They lose a major player every year to injury, have a bunch of no names and still win every god damn year.
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I honestly don't get how the Cardinals do it. They lose a major player every year to injury, have a bunch of no names and still win every god damn year.
They draft and develop well. Not much of a mystery.
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They draft and develop well. Not much of a mystery.
Well yea but they never miss. It's crazy l, usually you have some draft busts but to not miss on a draft pick in a decade is insane.
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They draft and develop well. Not much of a mystery.
It is a mystery to like 29 other teams.
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How about Bumgarner today. Not only the pitching, but that play at first was seriously impressive. If the Cubs have anything to worry about, it is that the team behind them really knows how to play in September and October.
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How about Bumgarner today. Not only the pitching, but that play at first was seriously impressive. If the Cubs have anything to worry about, it is that the team behind them really knows how to play in September and October.
Hard to write off the Giants, ever. But, man, if you look at the Cubs remaining schedule it is a joke. Lots of games against the Reds and Brewers in particular. I'm just don't think the Ginats can win enough games to keep up. That said, you might have to worry a little bit about some of these young Cubs like Schwarber and Bryant wearing down a bit late in the year and not hitting. I don't necessarily see that happening, but it's possible. Looking at everything, I'd be very surprised if they aren't in that WC game.
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Hard to write off the Giants, ever. But, man, if you look at the Cubs remaining schedule it is a joke. Lots of games against the Reds and Brewers in particular. I'm just don't think the Ginats can win enough games to keep up. That said, you might have to worry a little bit about some of these young Cubs like Schwarber and Bryant wearing down a bit late in the year and not hitting. I don't necessarily see that happening, but it's possible. Looking at everything, I'd be very surprised if they aren't in that WC game.
I don't think the West gets 2 teams in, but the Giants may be the 1 team that does get in. Either way, the team from the West will be dangerous, even if Puig's out long term. Any pitching staff with Kershaw and Greinke is going to be really dangerous in the Playoffs. But the Dodgers have not gotten it done in a while now, so who knows.
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I honestly don't get how the Cardinals do it. They lose a major player every year to injury, have a bunch of no names and still win every god damn year.
They've also been the fortunate benefit of some luck in 2013 and 2015.
In 2013, it was an unsustainable record when batting with runners in scoring position. This year, it's some luck in preventing runs when the opponent has runners in scoring position. Note that it may not all be luck.
Maths Articles
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-st-louis-cardinals-cluster-luck/
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22124
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I honestly don't get how the Cardinals do it. They lose a major player every year to injury, have a bunch of no names and still win every god damn year.
Hacking.
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Hacking.
+1
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There shouldn't even be a conversation. Greinke could be named it today. Has better numbers than Arrieta in everything other than wins and strikeouts. Winning percentage, WHIP, BAA, ERA, hits, runs, earned runs, home runs, walks all favor Greinke.
Greinke is still the favorite but f*ck yeah, Jake!
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Of course the Cardinals take 2nd when a liner up the middle hits the pitcher in the head. When that happens with any other team up to bat the batter makes it about half way to first base. But hey, they Cardinals do it the right way, I guess.
Clowns.
Also, Cubs just helped themselves out with that dirty slide. Taking out one of the young studs on the team you will almost certainly be playing 1 game to move into the Divisional Series must be nice.
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Of course the Cardinals take 2nd when a liner up the middle hits the pitcher in the head. When that happens with any other team up to bat the batter makes it about half way to first base. But hey, they Cardinals do it the right way, I guess.
Clowns.
Also, Cubs just helped themselves out with that dirty slide. Taking out one of the young studs on the team you will almost certainly be playing 1 game to move into the Divisional Series must be nice.
Of course that's your take. Even the Pirates announcers said it wasn't dirty. His entire arm and chest were in line with the bag. Hurdle didn't have a problem with it after, the commentators on MLB Tonight were fine with it. But keep on trolling. Some idiot compared it to Holliday when he basically slide into center field to take out Scutaro, which is asinine.
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Of course that's your take. Even the Pirates announcers said it wasn't dirty. His entire arm and chest were in line with the bag. Hurdle didn't have a problem with it after, the commentators on MLB Tonight were fine with it. But keep on trolling. Some idiot compared it to Holliday when he basically slide into center field to take out Scutaro, which is asinine.
His entire arm and chest are in line with the bag? I don't even know what that means. He came sliding in sideways and started his slide about 2 1/2 feet from the base. His leg is coming in knee high.
(http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/jung-ho-kang-injury.jpg)
If "he had to extend his entire arm completely behind him because he dove into Kang perpendicular to the base" means "his entire arm and chest are in line with the bag," then sure, you're spot on.
So yes, that is my take. Not trolling at all. It was a dirty slide. If you're going to go in for a takeout slide, take off far enough away from the guy so that you aren't essentially jumping straight into his knee. Coughlin came into contact with Kang before any part of him came into contact with the ground. That is dirty and dangerous.
I bet you think it's just a coincidence that Coughlin did the exact same thing to Akinori Iwamura, right? I'm sure "his entire arm and chest [were] in line with the bag" then, too. Two different players he caused to have leg surgery due to slides. But nothing wrong with that...
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Of course the Cardinals take 2nd when a liner up the middle hits the pitcher in the head. When that happens with any other team up to bat the batter makes it about half way to first base. But hey, they Cardinals do it the right way, I guess.
Clowns.
Also, Cubs just helped themselves out with that dirty slide. Taking out one of the young studs on the team you will almost certainly be playing 1 game to move into the Divisional Series must be nice.
I'm a Sox fan and not too fond of the Cubs but that slide wasn't that bad. There have been way worse plays.
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Here is a play MLB has up on their Youtube page as a slide to break up a DP. Basically the same slide. Couglin's leg is higher. I will fully admit that he came in high, but I'll defer to a lot more knowledgeable baseball people than myself who found nothing explicitly wrong with that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYd3Lt37FG4
He wasn't out any wider than any other baserunner would be in that situation. Its not like his hand barely caught the bag. Thinking its some intentionally dirty play to "take out a young stud" on a rival is cynical as hell. Thats what I was referring to with trolling.
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Here is a play MLB has up on their Youtube page as a slide to break up a DP. Basically the same slide. Couglin's leg is higher. I will fully admit that he came in high, but I'll defer to a lot more knowledgeable baseball people than myself who found nothing explicitly wrong with that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYd3Lt37FG4
He wasn't out any wider than any other baserunner would be in that situation. Its not like his hand barely caught the bag. Thinking its some intentionally dirty play to "take out a young stud" on a rival is cynical as hell. Thats what I was referring to with trolling.
Gotcha. I shouldn't have said that as I don't mean that I think his intent was literally to injure Kang, but it is convenient for them that they're probably going to be playing the Pirates in a single game Playoff and now the Pirates are without Kang. I don't think the intent was to injure, but I do think the execution was dangerous and made the possibility of an injury very high. That is what I mean by dirty and dangerous.
By the letter of the law it was a legal slide. He could reach the bag and that's all that matters in terms of baseball rules. But when you're sliding you shouldn't be jumping onto a fielder. You should be sliding into the dirt and attempting to alter the fielder's throw. It's one thing when you slide under/into a guy after you've been sliding along the ground. It's another when all of your momentum goes directly into a player right below the knee.
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Asked a friend who is a Land of Lakes HOF 2nd baseman. He concurs that it is probably within the letter of the law, but going in with his knee high makes it dirty. He is an old school "rub some dirt on it" kinda guy so if he says it's dirty, it's dirty. imho.
Was the 2nd baseman badly injured?
Did he turn 2?
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Was the 2nd baseman badly injured?
Did he turn 2?
Yeah, miniscus tear and leg fracture.
And yes, which is why the above occurred. Unfortunate injury, but kudos to him for standing in and not bailing, or at least jumping.
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Yeah, miniscus tear and leg fracture.
And yes, which is why the above occurred. Unfortunate injury, but kudos to him for standing in and not bailing, or at least jumping.
Did the slider get beaned?
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Did the slider get beaned?
Nope. No retaliation.
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Nope. No retaliation.
Heard an interesting note on this play, apparently in the Korean and Japanese take out slides are not allowed, so with Kang only playing about 60 games at SS in the MLB, he may not have been properly prepared to avoid the contact.
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Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Schwarber, Soler, Castro... This team is so fun and so young. And, obviously, one or more of them is going to get traded in the next 10 months.
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Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Schwarber, Soler, Castro... This team is so fun and so young. And, obviously, one or more of them is going to get traded in the next 10 months.
Castro is gone.
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The Cardinal Way...
https://twitter.com/StoolFrederic/status/645671632841932800
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What is the problem with that play?
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What is the problem with that play?
Nothing wrong with this one either: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/matt-holliday-slide-marco-scutaro-injury-giants_n_1969469.html
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So your problem is that he slid past the bag? Made contact with the fielder? If youve ever watched a baseball game that happens pretty much every game. Were you aghast when coghlan was 2.5 feet wide of the bag and broke kang's leg?
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New Brewers GM
http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/150715602
"A source confirmed to MLB.com Sunday that the Brewers are poised to fill their general manager vacancy with 30-year-old Harvard graduate David Stearns, who spent the last three seasons as the Astros' assistant GM. The choice was first reported by Ken Rosenthal of MLB Network and Fox Sports."
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So your problem is that he slid past the bag? Made contact with the fielder? If youve ever watched a baseball game that happens pretty much every game. Were you aghast when coghlan was 2.5 feet wide of the bag and broke kang's leg?
Well, the Holliday slide is a bit much. But it's more just the cardinals continually saying they play "the right way", the "Cardinal way". You know, that same team caught hacking into other teams' computers
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Well, the Holliday slide is a bit much. But it's more just the cardinals continually saying they play "the right way", the "Cardinal way". You know, that same team caught hacking into other teams' computers
Yeah, can you imagine what the reaction from Cards fans and players would've been if this was done to the Card's second baseman?
Was Roider Pujols on the team then? If so, he might've been taking a piss in the dugout bathroom but you can bet your ass he would've ran straight from there out to 2nd to confront the guy and be applauded for backing up his teammate. Then there would've been a plunking and maybe some complaining about the stadium panel board lighting.
Frack the Cards.
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There were people complaining today that Rizzo intentionally hurt Molina with his slide into home. Unreal
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Well, the Holliday slide is a bit much. But it's more just the cardinals continually saying they play "the right way", the "Cardinal way". You know, that same team caught hacking into other teams' computers
So you have no problem with it then, well other than it was a Cardinal doing it. Got it.
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Ausmus to return as Tiger's manager in 2016. The rest of baseball celebrates while Tiger's fans jaws ache from dropping in disbelief.
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I'm so lucky to see this guy play all the time.
Another insane play....amazing player
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/watch-angels-mike-trout-robs-mariners-jesus-montero-of-3-run-home-run-with-spectacular-catch/
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12065729_10150582550409984_988457942044118579_n.jpg?oh=ae388fd0947767597110bb5556290375&oe=5691F642)
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Nationals finishing up the season strong.
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Nationals finishing up the season strong.
Haha outstanding. Can't blame Paplebon, and I don't even know what was said.
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Really? Pappelbon is a prick. Harper is the MVP. I bet if you polled the Nationals they would be on Harper's side by a huge margin.
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Really? Pappelbon is a prick. Harper is the MVP. I bet if you polled the Nationals they would be on Harper's side by a huge margin.
Pappelbon is a prick, but Harper is a bigger prick, in my opinion.
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Pappelbon is a prick, but Harper is a bigger prick, in my opinion.
Probably because he is good? Is this the same as the Cardinals hate?
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Probably because he is good? Is this the same as the Cardinals hate?
Well, the fact that he is good magnifies it and brings it to the forefront. Every level he has played on since high school he has been one of the most hated players (from skipping X amount of years of high school in order to play JUCO and prepare for the pros, all the way up to the pros). He's a slightly more toned down version of Puig.
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Harper really reeled it in this year, wades.
I didn't like him either, but I think he's over a lot of that crap. Also, an great player.
Papelbon has never been likable.
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Harper really reeled it in this year, wades.
I didn't like him either, but I think he's over a lot of that crap. Also, an great player.
Papelbon has never been likable.
Fair enough. I will admit when the Brewers are so far out of contention so early I pay very little attention to baseball, so he very well may have matured past most of his old fiery stuff.
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Really? Pappelbon is a prick. Harper is the MVP. I bet if you polled the Nationals they would be on Harper's side by a huge margin.
Pappelbon was busting his chops for dogging it to first in a 4-4 game in the 8th inning. In this isolated event, I am not sure it would be so lopsided. Harper is a great player, and yes the MVP of the team, but not above criticism. And I believe he even encouraged Pap to "come at me bro."
Edit: Read a bad article.
Seems to be more to the story.
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I think a lot of the Harper criticism is outdated. He was extremely cocky and had that Lebron of baseball thing going for him. I thought he was a tool. But starting last year, through his incredible year this year, he's great. He and Trout have that same versatile skill set. Big guys capable of a lot of power who hustle on the basepaths and are all around offensive threats. Meanwhile Papelbon is a cancer and always has been. I would imagine if that fight continued there would have been 20 dudes piling on Papelbon and shuttling Harper to safety.
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Obviously, Harper should have run it out.
That being said, Papelbon is a dope for hashing it out in public and then going for Harper's throat. If you have a problem with a teammate, you take it into the room. Or better yet, you let your manager or maybe a player who has been on the team for more than a couple months deal with it.
It was somehow fitting that, after the incident, Papelbon went out and pissed down his leg.
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Matt Williams is so dumb. So, so dumb.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/matt-williams-just-had-a-bizarre-press-conference-where-he-lied-through-his-teeth-the-entire-time/
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Matt Williams is so dumb. So, so dumb.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/matt-williams-just-had-a-bizarre-press-conference-where-he-lied-through-his-teeth-the-entire-time/
I've always thought Matt was in the same class as Kirk Gibson when it came to managing. Long term, I think this is a good thing for the Nats, as hopefully they will have enough sense to can him after the season.
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Matt Williams is so dumb. So, so dumb.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/matt-williams-just-had-a-bizarre-press-conference-where-he-lied-through-his-teeth-the-entire-time/
Smart enough to marry some pretty good lookin' broads doe, hey?
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Smart enough to marry some pretty good lookin' broads doe, hey?
Pics?
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2 outta 3 here, hey?
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Nats suspend Papelbon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/09/28/jonathan-papelbon-suspended-four-games-for-bryce-harper-altercation/
Great pic of Papelbon going all Neil Reed on Harper.
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It was somewhat similar to the Bonds-Kent fight way back when - if either guy got knocked silly, teammates weren't going to shed any tears.
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It was somewhat similar to the Bonds-Kent fight way back when - if either guy got knocked silly, teammates weren't going to shed any tears.
This. Two a-holes
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It was somewhat similar to the Bonds-Kent fight way back when - if either guy got knocked silly, teammates weren't going to shed any tears.
Yeah, good comparison.
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Nats suspend Papelbon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/09/28/jonathan-papelbon-suspended-four-games-for-bryce-harper-altercation/
Great pic of Papelbon going all Neil Reed on Harper.
And also sat Harper for 1 game.
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And also sat Harper for 1 game.
He wasn't technically suspended though (i.e. didn't cost him any money).
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Do Harper's teammates not like him?
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Do Harper's teammates not like him?
Depends if you ask a Harper hater or supporter...
Also, just for some late season MLB lolz
https://twitter.com/Haudricourt/status/123897642869735424
MJS always striving for greatness!
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And also sat Harper for 1 game.
More Matt Williams foolishness.
Harper was already scheduled for a day off on Monday.
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I thought the talk of Harper not hustling was weird.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-much-does-bryce-harper-actually-hustle--quite-a-lot-195153539.html
The knock on him has always been that he is too intense and aggressive. Which, I think is ridiculous.
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Nats suspend Papelbon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/09/28/jonathan-papelbon-suspended-four-games-for-bryce-harper-altercation/
Great pic of Papelbon going all Neil Reed on Harper.
You mean he went all Bob Knight on him.
RIP Neil Reed.
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What is the problem with that play?
Just so you know, I think the Utley play was incredibly dirty too. And he's not a Cardinal.
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Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on August 09, 2015, 07:59:23 PM
Cubs sweep the Giants to open up a 3.5 game lead for the last wildcard spot, all while starting 4 rookies most days. Arrieta needs to be in the Cy Young conversation.
There shouldn't even be a conversation. Greinke could be named it today. Has better numbers than Arrieta in everything other than wins and strikeouts. Winning percentage, WHIP, BAA, ERA, hits, runs, earned runs, home runs, walks all favor Greinke.
What was that, Wadesworld? Shouldn't even be a conversation? Congrats, Jake!
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In fairness to Wade, and I don't do this often. That was wayyy before he started his 2nd half tear. His 1st half numbers weren't close to Greinke.
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In fairness to Wade, and I don't do this often. That was wayyy before he started his 2nd half tear. His 1st half numbers weren't close to Greinke.
Even with Arrieta's second half tear, it was a tossup between the two if you ask me. Voters couldn't get it wrong between the two. I like ERA+ and IP as best stats to use for Cy Young, I don't like stats like FIP for awards because ERA+ and IP tell you the value of what actually happened, as opposed to what should have happened. And Grienke was slightly ahead in ERA+ (225 to 222) and Arrieta was slightly ahead in IP (229 to 222.2). Too close to call.
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In fairness to Wade, and I don't do this often. That was wayyy before he started his 2nd half tear. His 1st half numbers weren't close to Greinke.
After that start I posted about he had a 2.36 ERA. All I said was that he should be in the conversation but that Greinke was still the clear favorite. To say there shouldn't even be a conversation with such an absolute conviction was just silly.
Even with Arrieta's second half tear, it was a tossup between the two if you ask me. Voters couldn't get it wrong between the two. I like ERA+ and IP as best stats to use for Cy Young, I don't like stats like FIP for awards because ERA+ and IP tell you the value of what actually happened, as opposed to what should have happened. And Grienke was slightly ahead in ERA+ (225 to 222) and Arrieta was slightly ahead in IP (229 to 222.2). Too close to call.
Arrieta, Greinke, and Kershaw were all deserving candidates. There are so many metrics now that you can pick and choose to make a solid argument for any one of them.
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After that start I posted about he had a 2.36 ERA. All I said was that he should be in the conversation but that Greinke was still the clear favorite. To say there shouldn't even be a conversation with such an absolute conviction was just silly.
Arrieta, Greinke, and Kershaw were all deserving candidates. There are so many metrics now that you can pick and choose to make a solid argument for any one of them.
Greinke's ERA was roughly half of that at the time.
Congrats to Arrieta for his absurd second half. Doesn't change the fact that the only candidate worthy of discussion in August was Zack Greinke.
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Greinke's ERA was roughly half of that at the time.
Congrats to Arrieta for his absurd second half. Doesn't change the fact that the only candidate worthy of discussion in August was Zack Greinke.
A 1.65 ERA is roughly half of 2.36? Interesting. Because you thought it wasn't worthy of discussion certainly doesn't make it a fact.
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A 1.65 ERA is roughly have of 2.36? Interesting. Because you thought it wasn't worthy of discussion certainly doesn't make it a fact.
Go look at their numbers through July. Arrieta's ERA was 2.62, Greinke's was 1.41. Roughly "have" (really, half). Interesting. It wasn't even close. Those are facts. I will provide you with more facts (see: stats...numbers never lie) if you would like. Or you can continue to pretend that anybody other than Greinke was even worthy of discussion for the Cy Young Award "have" way into the season.
Congrats to Arrieta for having one of the greatest second halves to a baseball season ever. He closed a gap that I didn't think anybody could. But that doesn't mean we can rewrite history and pretend he was right there with Greinke on August 9.
Just like if you said today, "Russell Westbrook should be in the discussion for NBA MVP." No, there is only 1 person worth discussing for NBA MVP right now, and it's Stephen Curry. By the end of the year will that be the case? Maybe, maybe not. But as of November 19, nobody is even close to Stephen Curry, just like on August 9, nobody was even close to Zack Greinke for NL Cy Young.
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Go look at their numbers through July. Arrieta's ERA was 2.62, Greinke's was 1.41. Roughly "have" (really, half). Interesting. It wasn't even close. Those are facts. I will provide you with more facts (see: stats...numbers never lie) if you would like. Or you can continue to pretend that anybody other than Greinke was even worthy of discussion for the Cy Young Award "have" way into the season.
Congrats to Arrieta for having one of the greatest second halves to a baseball season ever. He closed a gap that I didn't think anybody could. But that doesn't mean we can rewrite history and pretend he was right there with Greinke on August 9.
Just like if you said today, "Russell Westbrook should be in the discussion for NBA MVP." No, there is only 1 person worth discussing for NBA MVP right now, and it's Stephen Curry. By the end of the year will that be the case? Maybe, maybe not. But as of November 19, nobody is even close to Stephen Curry, just like on August 9, nobody was even close to Zack Greinke for NL Cy Young.
I posted on August 9th that Arrieta should be in that conversation. Their ERAs on August 9th were 1.65 and 2.36 respectively. That's nowhere near half. Numbers don't like, right?
Being in the conversation is clearly not the same thing and saying he was "right there" with Greinke as of August 9th. Comprehension is important.
Your Westbrook/Curry example is ridiculous as well, primarily because we are three weeks into the season.
Thanks for calling out my "half" vs "have" typo in that manner. Figures your one of those. That last one is just for you if you want to correct it.
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I posted on August 9th that Arrieta should be in that conversation. Their ERAs on August 9th were 1.65 and 2.36 respectively. That's nowhere near half. Numbers don't like, right?
Being in the conversation is clearly not the same thing and saying he was "right there" with Greinke as of August 9th. Comprehension is important.
Your Westbrook/Curry example is ridiculous as well, primarily because we are three weeks into the season.
Thanks for calling out my "half" vs "have" typo in that manner. Figures your one of those. That last one is just for you if want to correct it.
I am in ownership of one of those? What are those? Not sure what it is, but I appreciate it.
Anyhow, I see you want to continue this. Please go look at their WHIPs, BAA, home runs, etc. etc. etc. Report back to me on those and we'll see whether Arrieta was even remotely close to where Greinke was on August 9. (Hint: he wasn't)
If "being in the discussion" doesn't mean that someone is "right there with" the leader, then what's the point? Then any player in the MLB could be in the discussion. Sure, hypothetically we could have discussed Jimmy Nelson as a candidate for the Cy Young, but, just like Arrieta on August 9, it starts and ends with, "He's not even remotely close to being in contention for this award."
What Arrieta did from April through August 9 did not come close to winning him the Cy Young Award. What he did in the last 2 months of the season won him the Cy Young Award.