Tanned Tommy on the ropes?

[Lennys Tap]

Yeah, I agree mostly. Have never been a Crean fan, but the vitriol against him is "beyond the pale".

Your directed more vitriol towards Buzz Williams in one year than Crean's taken here from anyone in the last 8 or 9 - and Buzz was the better coach!

[brewcity77]

I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.

Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.

I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.

[warriorchick]

I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.

Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.

I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.

It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you.  At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on.  In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.

However, Buzz going on national TV the next day to talk about how much better his new "love" is was inexcusable....Bill Cords should have thrown all of his stuff onto the front lawn of the Al Mcguire Center. Except for the Led Zeppelin albums. Gotta keep those.

[willie warrior]

Your directed more vitriol towards Buzz Williams in one year than Crean's taken here from anyone in the last 8 or 9 - and Buzz was the better coach!

Thank you for sharing that astute observation--and I don't mean "and Buzz was a better coach". How did Buzz's year fare against Creans?

Answer: Crickets!

[Tums Festival]

While Brent and TT did very good things for our program while they were here, the way both treated Marquette like a used rubber when they left is hard to forgive and forget.

[Eldon]

Can we change the title of this thread to "Too Tanned Tommy?"  Or perhaps "Tommy Too Tanned?"

[4everwarriors]

While Brent and TT did very good things for our program while they were here, the way both treated Marquette like a used rubber when they left is hard to forgive and forget.

Careful there, references to prophylactics and/or privates and such will likely get you labelled as "disgusting," hey?

[4everwarriors]

Can we change the title of this thread to "Too Tanned Tommy?"  Or perhaps "Tommy Too Tanned?"

We've been rollin' with just plain old, T-Cubed.

[Avenue Commons]

I agree the two are mutually exclusive but I disagree that MU owes him a financial, philosophical, or moral debt. He was rewarded handsomely for his time at Marquette. In many ways, too much.

I struggle with the economics of American culture. The rest of the world is puzzled by how little we pay our teachers. We lavish riches on entertainers while ignoring the fundamentals. I have a colleague who spent 25 years as a geneticist working at Fred Hutch to cure cancer. He was on the team that was awarded a Nobel Prize for its work on cell cycle control - work that has saved lives. He made a fraction of what Tanned Tommy did at Marquette. That strikes me as odd. 

Fair point, but semantic at best. We should appreciate what Crean did at Marquette. It was very good work as a college basketball coach.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you.  At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on.  In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.

However, Buzz going on national TV the next day to talk about how much better his new "love" is was inexcusable....Bill Cords should have thrown all of his stuff onto the front lawn of the Al Mcguire Center. Except for the Led Zeppelin albums. Gotta keep those.

no it isn't. This is a weird and oft-brought-up analogy that indicates some really unhealthy attitudes about both romantic and professional relationships here on Scoop.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The attempt at revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Crean did wonderful things for MU. Love him or hate him, facts are fats.

Shhhh.....let the agenda driven folks here have their agenda.  Facts be damned.


I've also never seen so many predictions go wrong in the last 7 years than by MU fans when it comes to IU and Crean, and this thread is full of many more.  MU fans regarding Crean are as delusional as IU fans that think they are still in the same breath as Duke, UK, KU and others, but there is no arguing with either of them.  At some point in their lives, they might get something right on their predictions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

IU nation wants Brad.   

 I have believed for some time that Crean is a B- coach.   I thought he had reached his peak at MU.   If he had stayed at MU, within a couple of years, the grumblings would have started in earnest here.    I believe he has peaked at IU.   More importantly, the fanbase has come to believe that, too.   They have looked at 7 years of work, 16 years overall, and have decided that he is not a coach to get IU back to the pinnacle they believe to be their birthright.   They have reached the same conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses as a coach that most have here.   He built the program up from the ashes, but he is not the one to take it to a high level of consistency.    Not being able to consistently land bigs or consecutive really good classes, having unbalanced rosters,  unable to attack a zone, the dreaded 3 man weave as a base offense..... IU nation doesn't have the same patience for these failings as MU did.   

Currently less than 10% believe he should be fired in two polls running the last two days online with over 15,000 participants.  It's always interesting to me who this "fanbase" is.  Is the MU fanbase only those on MUScoop?  Is the IU fanbase only those on Peegs? 

I don't disagree with you that he isn't an elite coach, he never has been. His roster management is terrible, much like Buzz's was.  He does a great job of rebuilding and running a good program.  That 3 man weave offense I think was #1 in the Big Ten this year.  IU nation is a joke and has been for decades.  Their hero worship of Knight was half the problem.  They think they are deserving of John Wooden walking through the doors, but it isn't happening. 

Fred Glass knows it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.

Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.

He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.

The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."

Make that two lottery picks.  Oliadipo was the second pick and Zeller was the fourth pick.

Can you imagine any MU coach having two of the top 4 picks, with one being a scoring Wade type forward and the other a center ... and exiting in the second round?

And don't forget that last year they didn't even make the NIT and had another lottery pick (9th overall) center Noah Vonleh.

Let's put this in prospective.  MU was 13-19.  If we had this exact same team and also Willie Cauley-Stein as our center (Mock drafts have him as the 5th to 7th pick), how would we feel about Wojo not even making the NIT?

Bottom line, last three years Crean had three lottery picks and won one tourney game with two of them and could not even make post season with a third.  

Inexcusable.  

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Make that two lottery picks.  Oliadipo was the second pick and Zeller was the fourth pick.

Can you imagine any MU coach having two of the top 4 picks, with one being a scoring Wade type forward and the other a center ... and exiting in the second round?

And don't forget that last year they didn't even make the NIT and had another lottery pick (9th overall) center Noah Vonleh.

Let's put this in prospective.  MU was 13-19.  If we had this exact same team and also Willie Cauley-Stein as our center (Mock drafts have him as the 5th to 7th pick), how would we feel about Wojo not even making the NIT?

Bottom line, last three years Crean had three lottery picks and won one tourney game with two of them and could not even make post season with a third.  

Inexcusable.  

 

Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it.   They won two tourney games.  Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right?  Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road.  Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed.  He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far?  Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class?  Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won.   He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.

He will leave on his own, not due to a firing.  Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year.  Is it a lock?  No.  He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.

[keefe]

A history like that isn't easily forgotten.

Not that Marquette fans ever long for a more gilded age...

[keefe]

Exactly. We don't owe Crean sh!t. In fact, he still owes us $100k for the soccer stadium. His buyout should cover that nicely, he better pony up!

Crean is a welcher! That sonuvabitch!

[keefe]

Crean gave us the Al......got us into the Big East......recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Wes Matthews......He did a lot of good for us......It was a mutually beneficial relationship......He elevated our program.....

JOHN DODDS!!!!!

[4everwarriors]

I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.

Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.

I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.

For that, the Prick was handsomely paid. Did the job he was paid to do. That is all. Was a phony sumbitch throughout his tenure. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, hey? Adios mf'er and the horse ya rode in on.

[keefe]

It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you.  At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on.  In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.

The difference between a man and a woman.

When a woman dumps a dude he immediately calls up some buddies to go drinking while trolling for tail. He is neither devastated nor angry but instantly ready to savor something new, fresh, and exciting. In every case he knows he is better off without her and couldn't give a sh1t if there were ever any good times.  

[wadesworld]

Haha Keefer and the Doc.  You guys are hilarious.

[Tugg Speedman]

Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it.   They won two tourney games.  Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right?  Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road.  Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed.  He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far?  Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class?  Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won.   He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.

He will leave on his own, not due to a firing.  Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year.  Is it a lock?  No.  He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.

Let me summarize this post in one sentence ... "life sucks for jock strapping sniffing defenders of Crean."

And, ok, he won two games two years ago, not one ... With two lottery picks.  Maybe Crean should get a raise.

[Tugg Speedman]

Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it.   They won two tourney games.  Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right?  Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road.  Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed.  He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far?  Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class?  Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won.   He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.

He will leave on his own, not due to a firing.  Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year.  Is it a lock?  No.  He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.

Vonleh was as good as Hasheem Thabeet, who was the second pick of the 2009 draft and pretty much went straight the D-league.

The difference is Colhoun used Thabeet to get to the final four.  Crean could not even make the NIT with Vonleh.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let me summarize this post in one sentence ... "life sucks for jock strapping sniffing defenders of Crean."

And, ok, he won two games two years ago, not one ... With two lottery picks.  Maybe Crean should get a raise.

No one is defending him, but when you're going to go on a rant of how poorly he was doing, shouldn't you get the facts correct?  Is that defending him or simply having you call it straight?

So he gets fired tomorrow or Monday?  Which one?

[Tugg Speedman]

So he gets fired tomorrow or Monday?  Which one?

He probably won't but he should.  He's done.  He will never be able to recruit as every other coach will convincingly tell kids he has one-foot out the door.

Welcome to 5th to 8th place in the B1G year-in and year-out IU nation!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Vonleh was as good as Hasheem Thabeet, who was the second pick of the 2009 draft and pretty much went straight the D-league.

The difference is Colhoun used Thabeet to get to the final four.  Crean could not even make the NIT with Vonleh.

I like you Another84, think you are a good poster, but your obsession over him leads you to make some really odd statements, many factually incorrect.

Are you suggesting the UCONN team of 2009 that had Kemba Walker, Dyson, Adrien and Thabeet was somehow equivalent to last year's IU team?  Thabeet is a much better player than Vonleh was in college.  Thabeet was also the #2 pick in the draft, which you keep seeming to tout.  Vonleh was what, 9th or 10th?  Your comparisons are strange.  Thabeet was a stud in college and a lousy pro.  Vonleh was not great in college, and will not be great in the NBA either.  Thabeet was 7'3", Vonleh 6'10".

And no one has ever said Crean is as good a coach as Calhoun.  Rip the guy all you want, he deserves plenty, but it makes your arguments a lot stronger when they have some semblance of reality to them.