Tanned Tommy on the ropes?

[Tugg Speedman]

They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him.  If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants.  He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.

+1

He is the coach of the Boston Celtics.  They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder).  Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?

Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that.  But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere.  They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.

Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract

Crean has a $10 million buyout.  

The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess).  

So IU needs:

* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.

So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening.  And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76ers.

[Jay Bee]

Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.

If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.

Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.

[NavinRJohnson]

Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.

If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.

Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.

Maybe, maybe not. They are over signed by 2 at the moment, so there is going to be roster change coming, but if Yogi and Troy Williams come back, and Thomas Bryant falls in his lap, which looks like could happen in the wake of the Syracuse sanctions, they could be decent next year. Is decent good enough? Now, if one or both of those guys leave, and Bryant goes elsewhere, Crean should probably do himself a favor and take a check to do the same.

[brewcity77]

They had kids who smoked pot and didn't study...SCANDALOUS! It was massively blown out of proportion because it was Indiana and Sampson had been in trouble previously. Sampson was also 10x the coach Crean is and that Hoosier team was near the top of the rankings. Now they have kids getting arrested, but they study! Oh, and they're not nearly as good as they were under Sampson. Nice rebuild.

He did not "rebuild" Marquette. We had a couple down years under Deane, which were similar to the down years Marquette had after our Final Four. Under Crean.

Crean is a salesman, I'll give him that.

He is a salesman, which is why he did such a good job at the rebuilds. And sorry, there's no way to describe either situation as anything but a rebuild.

At Marquette, Crean inherited Wardle and Cordell. Really not much in the cupboard other than that. He got not only solid starters in Diener and Merritt, but also build a reliable group of role-players in guys like Sanders and Townsend. And of course, he put the two studs on the floor that carried us to the Final Four, Wade and Jackson. He consistently recruited top-100 players and energized the fanbase. Attendance went up 70% under Crean, the Al got built, we got into the Big East. Marquette basketball is where it is because of Crean.

I get that some people don't like him, but while O'Neill reminded people who we were, MU basketball could have fallen right back into the dredges of the NCAA after Deane. The only reason we got into C-USA was because of our close relationship with DePaul and had we hired a dud instead of Crean, we would still be there, or by this time probably kicked out to the Horizon or MVC. Like playing Villanova, Georgetown, and Providence every week? That's because of Crean. Like playing at the Garden every year? Also Crean. Hell, the attendance numbers people are complaining about now would have looked good before he arrived. His tenure here forged the path for Marquette basketball to be what it is today.

At Indiana, Sampson did plenty of damage, but things were already on the decline before arrived. Yes, Davis made that incredibly improbable Final Four run, but missed the tourney two of his last three years. Sampson's recruiting violations were bad, but the kinds of players he did recruit were worse. Most of his players either left or were kicked off the team. Crean took over a program that had two walk-ons on the roster, NCAA sanctions, and a fanbase at its lowest point probably ever. The first few years sucked, but he got the kids back to Assembly Hall, he got back to recruiting 5-star players.

Obviously, the fan support and wins followed. #1 ranking, 1-seed in the NCAAs, Big East titles, playing in the second weekend, no, they never reached Knight status, but compared to where they were when he took over it was night and day. Have they fallen off? Yes. In my opinion because Crean is better suited for a smaller job than what IU fans think it is. But they were absolutely not a top-3 program when he took over. When he took the job, they had only made the second weekend once in the previous 16 years. They hadn't won a title in over 20. They were clearly well behind Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, Syracuse, Kentucky, Connecticut, Florida, and Georgetown. They weren't top-10, much less top-3.

He made them relevant again. Not back to where they once were, but certainly not the dung-heap he took over. Crean is great at the rebuild. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully ignoring reality.

[Lennys Tap]

+1

He is the coach of the Boston Celtics.  They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder).  Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?

Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that.  But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere.  They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.

Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract

Crean has a $10 million buyout. 

The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess). 

So IU needs:

* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.

So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening.  And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76s.

Disagree with this completely. If I'm Brad Stevens the Indiana job is much more attractive than Duke. Following a legend at a blue blood/top program almost never works out. Hank/Rick at MU, Guthridge at N Carolina, Bartow at UCLA, Mike Davis at Indiana. Much better to be the guy who arrives after a string of failures (like Roy Williams at UNC).

[GGGG]

Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program.  Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.

[GGGG]

They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him.  If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants.  He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.

Neither Syracuse nor Duke will hire Stevens even if he wants those jobs.  Both those will go to insiders.

[Jay Bee]

Maybe, maybe not. They are over signed by 2 at the moment, so there is going to be roster change coming, but if Yogi and Troy Williams come back, and Thomas Bryant falls in his lap, which looks like could happen in the wake of the Syracuse sanctions, they could be decent next year. Is decent good enough? Now, if one or both of those guys leave, and Bryant goes elsewhere, Crean should probably do himself a favor and take a check to do the same.

I believe it's past the point of no return. Crean's status with a large chunk of the fan base is such that they could enter the year in the top 25 this fall and they'll be on him for every loss.

Absolutely they could be good next year and they could be good every year. It's Indiana! It's Indiana! However, the heat is on from a good portion of the fans and I don't see it lightening up in a significant way.

McClain has been eyed by schools for a HC job before; now he's gone. Simply timing? Perhaps.

[Lennys Tap]

Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program.  Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.

I agree with this, but Brew's homage to the douche is so over the top hyperbole I thought Chico wrote it.

[GGGG]

+1

He is the coach of the Boston Celtics.  They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder).  Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?

Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that.  But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere.  They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.

Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract

Crean has a $10 million buyout.  

The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess).  

So IU needs:

* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.

So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening.  And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76ers.

I wouldn't get all excited about the rebuilding in Boston.  They are improving no doubt, but they are 30-38 right now.  The roster has a bunch of decent players, but no one that I would label a star.  It looks like a ship sailing right into NBA mediocrity right now.

I think ultimately you are correct but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

[VegasWarrior77]

TC is losing an assistant:

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN  51m51 minutes ago
UIC will hire Indiana assistant Steve McClain and news conference likely for Wednesday, sources told ESPN. Eddie Fogler handled search.

[NavinRJohnson]

[NavinRJohnson]

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program.  Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.

"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."

The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.

[4everwarriors]

Good thing he makes enough money to get his soiled trousers cleaned, ai na?

[brewcity77]

I agree with this, but Brew's homage to the douche is so over the top hyperbole I thought Chico wrote it.

I'm not a fan of Crean. I think he's a salesman more than anything. I also think he's a bit of a phony. He rebuilds programs on excitement more than anything. He can recruit, but he's inconsistent in that regard. Largely his success has come from two overlooked three stars in Wade and Oladipo.

After making his big run, he seems to go into coast mode. Wade was a huge loss but he should have been able to get enough talent to make the NCAAs, even with injuries. He's into that same mode at IU, which is why they want him out.

I also hate that he seems to always have one foot out the door. He was rumored to every major opening while he was here and used it to get annual pay raises, and now that his seat isn't so cushy at IU we see it happening again.

Crean has plenty of flaws. There's plenty not to like. But he can do the rebuild. He's a master of it, and part of what makes him so good is that phony, douchey personality that makes him a classic used cat salesman.

[brewcity77]

"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."

The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.

Not even close. We might be worse on the court, but there was way more young talent to build around for Wojo. Also, the modern facilities, the conference, and the program reputation were things that attracted Wojo, and also things that Crean and Buzz put in place.

Wojo arrived to a weak roster but still a turnkey operation. Crean took over a marginal roster with none of the perks that explain why Wojo "admired Marquette from afar."

[Babybluejeans]

He is a salesman, which is why he did such a good job at the rebuilds. And sorry, there's no way to describe either situation as anything but a rebuild.

At Marquette, Crean inherited Wardle and Cordell. Really not much in the cupboard other than that. He got not only solid starters in Diener and Merritt, but also build a reliable group of role-players in guys like Sanders and Townsend. And of course, he put the two studs on the floor that carried us to the Final Four, Wade and Jackson. He consistently recruited top-100 players and energized the fanbase. Attendance went up 70% under Crean, the Al got built, we got into the Big East. Marquette basketball is where it is because of Crean.

I get that some people don't like him, but while O'Neill reminded people who we were, MU basketball could have fallen right back into the dredges of the NCAA after Deane. The only reason we got into C-USA was because of our close relationship with DePaul and had we hired a dud instead of Crean, we would still be there, or by this time probably kicked out to the Horizon or MVC. Like playing Villanova, Georgetown, and Providence every week? That's because of Crean. Like playing at the Garden every year? Also Crean. Hell, the attendance numbers people are complaining about now would have looked good before he arrived. His tenure here forged the path for Marquette basketball to be what it is today.

At Indiana, Sampson did plenty of damage, but things were already on the decline before arrived. Yes, Davis made that incredibly improbable Final Four run, but missed the tourney two of his last three years. Sampson's recruiting violations were bad, but the kinds of players he did recruit were worse. Most of his players either left or were kicked off the team. Crean took over a program that had two walk-ons on the roster, NCAA sanctions, and a fanbase at its lowest point probably ever. The first few years sucked, but he got the kids back to Assembly Hall, he got back to recruiting 5-star players.

Obviously, the fan support and wins followed. #1 ranking, 1-seed in the NCAAs, Big East titles, playing in the second weekend, no, they never reached Knight status, but compared to where they were when he took over it was night and day. Have they fallen off? Yes. In my opinion because Crean is better suited for a smaller job than what IU fans think it is. But they were absolutely not a top-3 program when he took over. When he took the job, they had only made the second weekend once in the previous 16 years. They hadn't won a title in over 20. They were clearly well behind Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, Syracuse, Kentucky, Connecticut, Florida, and Georgetown. They weren't top-10, much less top-3.

He made them relevant again. Not back to where they once were, but certainly not the dung-heap he took over. Crean is great at the rebuild. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully ignoring reality.

Well said. I don't care for Crean--in fact, I actively root against him--but it's short-sighted to not appreciate what he did for the program, and moronic to not even acknowledge what he did. Wojo's situation is completely incomparable to Crean's. Hell, Wojo wouldn't even be at MU if it weren't for the direction Crean took the program.

That may sound like slurping or whatever people call it here, but anyone sane who actually remembers the program before 2002 would acknowledge how far we've come.

[🏀]

"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."

The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.

Not. Even. Close.

Just stop.

[jsglow]

Not even close. We might be worse on the court, but there was way more young talent to build around for Wojo. Also, the modern facilities, the conference, and the program reputation were things that attracted Wojo, and also things that Crean and Buzz put in place.

Wojo arrived to a weak roster but still a turnkey operation. Crean took over a marginal roster with none of the perks that explain why Wojo "admired Marquette from afar."

I agree with this.  Wojo's program is 'Top 15' turnkey.  Few players on day one but a budget, facilities, private jet, etc.  Think back to one of the reasons that Kevin O'Neil left.  Al DiUlio simply wasn't prepared to make any reasonable commitment.  Most of the credit for changing that goes to Bob Wild.  And when he saw that Mike Deane believed that an occasional NCAA appearance was enough he canned his sorry arse.  And then he listened to a young Crean and Bill Cords and started the building process.  Trust me, there's still plenty of folks in leadership positions who believe basketball is at best a necessary evil.  Fortunately, I have no reason to believe Mike Lovell is anything but 'all-in', including for sports beyond basketball.  (No, we're not getting football.)  But Wojo has every advantage at his disposal.  His first recruiting class seems to indicate that he knows how to use it.  Let's hope that starts to translate next season.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not a fan of Crean. I think he's a salesman more than anything. I also think he's a bit of a phony. He rebuilds programs on excitement more than anything. He can recruit, but he's inconsistent in that regard. Largely his success has come from two overlooked three stars in Wade and Oladipo.

After making his big run, he seems to go into coast mode. Wade was a huge loss but he should have been able to get enough talent to make the NCAAs, even with injuries. He's into that same mode at IU, which is why they want him out.

I also hate that he seems to always have one foot out the door. He was rumored to every major opening while he was here and used it to get annual pay raises, and now that his seat isn't so cushy at IU we see it happening again.

Crean has plenty of flaws. There's plenty not to like. But he can do the rebuild. He's a master of it, and part of what makes him so good is that phony, douchey personality that makes him a classic used cat salesman.

This is accurate. Most fans of "down programs" will ignore both coaching and personal inadequacies on the way up. When a program plateaus or turns a little south (see TC at MU or IU) those flaws become obvious even to the former fan boys.

[Warriors4ever]

I don't like Crean and root against him, but I have to agree with Brewcity and Sultan.  I'm glad he isn't still here, but he was certainly a salesman and whipped up interest.

[77ncaachamps]

Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.

Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.

He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.

The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."

[Avenue Commons]

Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.

If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.

Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.

In other words, Crean should quit.

I wouldn't. unnatural carnal knowledge IU's delusional fan base. Crean is doing a good job there. Not insanely good, but who could realistically do better? Calipari? Stevens? Coach K? Not gonna happen. Indiana is not what it thinks it is. It's a former blue blood, not a current one.

[Avenue Commons]

Well said. I don't care for Crean--in fact, I actively root against him--but it's short-sighted to not appreciate what he did for the program, and moronic to not even acknowledge what he did. Wojo's situation is completely incomparable to Crean's. Hell, Wojo wouldn't even be at MU if it weren't for the direction Crean took the program.

That may sound like slurping or whatever people call it here, but anyone sane who actually remembers the program before 2002 would acknowledge how far we've come.

Agreed. I know two things about Tom Crean.

1) He is a duplicitous, manipulative snake oil salesman.
2) The debt Marquette owes him is massive.

The two things are mutually exclusive.