MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: keefe on March 20, 2015, 03:49:22 PM
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Crash and Burn!
Go Shockers!
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He doesn't seem to be enjoying the job much this year. I honestly think he'll quit in the next two years and head to the NBA as an assistant before coming back to the NCAAs.
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this is the last 37 seconds of his I4 career!
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this is the last 37 seconds of his I4 career!
37 seconds is a long time...
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37 seconds is a long time...
1 second is too long with TT
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Only question is does Tommy get the axe tomorrow, Sunday or Monday?
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"It's Alabama! It's Alabama!"
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Only question is does Tommy get the axe tomorrow, Sunday or Monday?
No. And anyone who thinks he will hasn't read anything on his massive buy-out.
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I think it's been said before, TT's buyout this year is still pretty high (I recall it's somewhere around $4m), but next summer it's a quarter (approximately) of what it is now(approximately $1m). He might be able to bank another year before moving on.
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No. And anyone who thinks he will hasn't read anything on his massive buy-out.
They won't fire him outright, but there's talk about a buyout settlement that would allow him to leave IU for a new job. Crean can see the writing on the wall, he knows his days in Bloomington are limited. Might be better to leave now under his own terms than getting fired in 12 months.
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Eject! Eject! Eject!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2842554/crash-and-burn-o.gif)
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http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/ (http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/)
12 mil as of today. Would bet Brew77 has it right.
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They won't fire him outright, but there's talk about a buyout settlement that would allow him to leave IU for a new job. Crean can see the writing on the wall, he knows his days in Bloomington are limited. Might be better to leave now under his own terms than getting fired in 12 months.
Anyway it is sliced, it looks like IU is damned to keep him or damned to let him walk--the walk away money will be Brinks Truck like. Have to hand it to his agent, and IU's lunacy.
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Eject! Eject! Eject!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2842554/crash-and-burn-o.gif)
When the ejaculation occurs, there will be a golden parachute attached.
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dirkchatelain
@dirkchatelain
As the horn sounded, Tom Crean looked at official Kipp Kissinger (Nebraska native) across the floor and said, "You suck."
Crean is beneath contempt. Horrible human being.
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Says here it's about $10.6M-$11.2M, depending on the complexities of the contract.
http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2014/12/18/tom-crean-buyout-clause-indiana-hoosiers/20578385/
The un-negotiated amount now is high, but the July 1 onward isn't harsh, as the sliding $7.5M - $4M - $1M scale over the three following years is really his annual salary (probably a little less), so the buyout is essentially the same as paying his salary to keep him for a year then paying the reduced buyout the following year, so the buyout isn't what keeps him in place much longer.
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Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 31m31 minutes ago
Rick Barnes and Tom Crean sneak into tourney & both lose opening game. Now question becomes whether they will be back at respective schools.
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LOL!
Also, makes you wonder if getting rid of Fred Glass will lead to the termination of Crean.
So this scenario is what Buzz Williams was trying to avoid all along: losing the luster.
Too bad, that may also happen to him at VT in a couple of years.
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I think it's been said before, TT's buyout this year is still pretty high (I recall it's somewhere around $4m), but next summer it's a quarter (approximately) of what it is now(approximately $1m). He might be able to bank another year before moving on.
And no recruits will go to IU because they know he won't be around to coach them. So they will have a mid-major class and then the standard defections that come when he is eventually let go. When the dust settles on this, it will be 2009 - 2011 all over again, fight for 12th place in the B1G for a few years as they rebuild.
If you want an example of this, see MU.
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What an uncouth piece of sh1t
(https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dw7tuKC7irtAkP0P3QPpDouGlYU=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3525060/CREANN.0.gif)
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/rfoGghf1L66FNg0PK2Ethfvw8gQ=/0x0:2115x1410/400x267/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45951566/usa-today-8462208.0.jpg)
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dirkchatelain
@dirkchatelain
As the horn sounded, Tom Crean looked at official Kipp Kissinger (Nebraska native) across the floor and said, "You suck."
Crean is beneath contempt. Horrible human being.
Did he then accuse the guy of ruining the basketball program?
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Maybe TT can hold out 2 more years until Buzz decides to split for VT and can take over IU.
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Crean to VTech!
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Alabama has lots of money and they're motivated.
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Alabama has lots of money and they're motivated.
One of my wife's coworkers here in LV is an Indiana fan. He said one of the rumors circulating is Crean leaving I4 for Alabama. (?)
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Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 31m31 minutes ago
Rick Barnes and Tom Crean sneak into tourney & both lose opening game. Now question becomes whether they will be back at respective schools.
I'm not sure if it comes from the MU days or because he lives in Buzz Williams' back pocket but Goodman has been jabbing Crean hard for a long time. This particular season he has implied after every Indiana loss that Crean could be gone.
Then again, Goodman is the same guy who one year ago said Mike Hopkins was Marquette's #1 option and they'd be silly to pass on each other.
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What an uncouth piece of sh1t
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/rfoGghf1L66FNg0PK2Ethfvw8gQ=/0x0:2115x1410/400x267/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45951566/usa-today-8462208.0.jpg)
This picture is absolutely priceless.
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As many NCAA tourney wins last two years as Wojo, Buzz and me!
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Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 31m31 minutes ago
Rick Barnes and Tom Crean sneak into tourney & both lose opening game. Now question becomes whether they will be back at respective schools.
Buzz to Texas!
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Buzz to Texas!
Crean to VaTech.
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Buzz and Crean to Texas!
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Says here it's about $10.6M-$11.2M, depending on the complexities of the contract.
http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2014/12/18/tom-crean-buyout-clause-indiana-hoosiers/20578385/
The un-negotiated amount now is high, but the July 1 onward isn't harsh, as the sliding $7.5M - $4M - $1M scale over the three following years is really his annual salary (probably a little less), so the buyout is essentially the same as paying his salary to keep him for a year then paying the reduced buyout the following year, so the buyout isn't what keeps him in place much longer.
On the IU boards they reference a resignation. Pure speculation by me, but a resignation to me would signal a negotiated buyout at a reduced cost in exchange for not being straight up fired.
But who would they hire? I'd give him a last year if I was IU. Why not. Even though he's a jag off.
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Here's the TRUTH on the buyout:
ADDITIONAL INSIGHT ON TOM CREAN AND HIS CONTRACT WITH INDIANA (http://latenighthoops.com/additional-insight-on-tom-crean-and-his-contract-with-indiana/)
It's currently AT LEAST $11.1MM.
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Here's the TRUTH on the buyout:
ADDITIONAL INSIGHT ON TOM CREAN AND HIS CONTRACT WITH INDIANA (http://latenighthoops.com/additional-insight-on-tom-crean-and-his-contract-with-indiana/)
It's currently AT LEAST $11.1MM.
Pretty shrewd for Joanie to get that deal for her hubby. The morons at IU have what they deserve with that type of deal.
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Crean to VaTech.
Crean to VTech!
Ahem...
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Pretty shrewd for Joanie to get that deal for her hubby. The morons at IU have what they deserve that that type of deal.
Yeah,... the deal didn't sound as bad when Glass lied about it. But after a couple of years the masses started to figure it out.
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Crean sucks
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Crean to nearest tanning salon.
(http://cdn2.sportngin.com/attachments/text_block/1465/9654/creancar1_large.jpg)
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Any rumors about a replacement swirling yet?
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Any rumors about a replacement swirling yet?
The usual, coach K, Phil Jacksom ...
Seriously however, when they call Brad Stevens, what does he say?
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Any rumors about a replacement swirling yet?
Wojo
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dirkchatelain
@dirkchatelain
As the horn sounded, Tom Crean looked at official Kipp Kissinger (Nebraska native) across the floor and said, "You suck."
Crean is beneath contempt. Horrible human being.
At Marquette he berated a Memphis fan and commented on the looks of his wife. The irony!!
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12525870/indiana-hoosiers-coach-tom-crean-speaks-ncaa-tournament-loss-wichita-state-shockers
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12525870/indiana-hoosiers-coach-tom-crean-speaks-ncaa-tournament-loss-wichita-state-shockers
If Indiana fired Crean before June 30, it would owe him at least $10.6 million. After July 1, that payout drops to $7.5 million.
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If Indiana fired Crean before June 30, it would owe him at least $10.6 million. After July 1, that payout drops to $7.5 million.
IU fans will have to suffer another year of TC.
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IU fans will have to suffer another year of TC.
Again, negotiate the buyout. If Alabama really wants Crean, IU could offer to pay $7M and Alabama could give a $2M signing bonus. Crean gets to leave and gets a bigger buyout than if he were fired next year, Indiana gets to move on while paying less than his buyout for next year. Alabama gets the big name coach with rebuild experience they want.
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Indiana fans are as delusional as the Tennessee fans. A 10 seed, AT LEAST a $11.2mm buyout, and the new recruits get to wear clown pants. Every coach in America is lining to coach in Btwon. II! II!
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I find it interesting seeing people say that they never wanted Crean at IU in the first place. I saw someone make point that Crean had Wade at Marquette and didn't really do that much. That's what we have been saying here since probably 2005 during the second NIT appearance after the Wade era.
I don't know about anyone else, but I remember ZERO IU people being skeptical about Crean back in 2008. Maybe some were, but most people's tone was that this guy would take IU back to the National Championship. He'd make them forget Bobby Knight. There were a lot of condescending comments about how "if Crean can win at a school like Marquette, well then imagine what he can do at IU." If there were skeptics about Crean, they didn't get much attention.
Now, I don't think anyone would trade the Buzz era for Crean's IU era.
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Now, I don't think anyone would trade the Buzz era for Crean's IU era.
I don't think anyone at IU would trade the Crean IU years for the Buzz MU years.
Crean walked into a bad situation and deserves credit for building up the program. Crean did have a No. 1 ranking with Olidapu and Zeller, but they flamed out in the Sweet 16. Made Sweet 16 one other time but that was it. Basically a .500 record and missed the tourney a handful of times. Actually this year was the only year IU made it other than those Sweet 16 runs. 3 tourney bids in 7 years.
Buzz took MU to 3 straight Sweet 16s and a Elite 8 within that run. We missed NCAAs last year, but other than that Buzz (love him or hate him) had us rolling into the tourney every year for 5 straight years.
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As long as Izzo and Bo are hanging around, Tommy may never again finish better than third in that conference.
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Ahem...
Yes!
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Way over paid!
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nm
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crapshoot?
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Buzz to Texas!
That would be awesome.
There would be some very good players available as transfers as he drives off half the roster as he is wont to do.
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LOL: https://twitter.com/travissparkman1/status/579093557505490945/photo/1
Doesn't look good: http://www.gofundme.com/o5hapo
Now Tumblr: http://firetomcrean.tumblr.com/
Not one...but a second! https://twitter.com/firetomcrean2
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Crean could do some great things at DePaul... assuming the AD wouldn't screw it up.
I love watching Crean lose and think he's a d-bag but the guy can rebuild a program.
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Crean could do some great things at DePaul... assuming the AD wouldn't screw it up.
I love watching Crean lose and think he's a d-bag but the guy can rebuild a program.
What program has he "rebuilt?" Indiana was a top 3 team under Sampson.
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What program has he "rebuilt?" Indiana was a top 3 team under Sampson.
Here's a book you might enjoy
(http://i.imgur.com/jV1gv5z.jpg)
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What program has he "rebuilt?" Indiana was a top 3 team under Sampson.
Marquette and Indiana.
If you think the situation at Indiana was "top 3" when he arrived you are insane. That program was in shambles.
Do I think Crean is a good fit to take teams to the next level? No. But you can't deny he can rebuild a program.
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You could argue it's Indiana and anyone could have success there but he did it at Marquette as well. And that was before we were a team that spent more on its program than 99% of schools.
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You could argue it's Indiana and anyone could have success there but he did it at Marquette as well. And that was before we were a team that spent more on its program than 99% of schools.
You're correct. He is an insufferable pud whack who appears to have a ceiling, but it's silly to try to re-write history as to what he did accomplish.
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He'll be fine at a football school because nobody will notice that he doesn't really know much about basketball.
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The attempt at revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Crean did wonderful things for MU. Love him or hate him, facts are fats.
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What program has he "rebuilt?" Indiana was a top 3 team under Sampson.
'
They also were in a world of trouble with the NCAA. I guess that fact you left out.
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The attempt at revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Crean did wonderful things for MU. Love him or hate him, facts are fats.
+100
And he's done a lot for IU as well, but that fanbase is to arrogant and still living in the 1980's under Bobby Knight to realize it.
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I've been beating this drum a lot, but who the hell does Indiana nation think they're going to get so far superior to Crean? Answer, nobody. At best, best case scenario is a modest upgrade.
Their fan base is so arrogant it has them outright delusional of where reality stands circa 2015.
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IU nation wants Brad.
I have believed for some time that Crean is a B- coach. I thought he had reached his peak at MU. If he had stayed at MU, within a couple of years, the grumblings would have started in earnest here. I believe he has peaked at IU. More importantly, the fanbase has come to believe that, too. They have looked at 7 years of work, 16 years overall, and have decided that he is not a coach to get IU back to the pinnacle they believe to be their birthright. They have reached the same conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses as a coach that most have here. He built the program up from the ashes, but he is not the one to take it to a high level of consistency. Not being able to consistently land bigs or consecutive really good classes, having unbalanced rosters, unable to attack a zone, the dreaded 3 man weave as a base offense..... IU nation doesn't have the same patience for these failings as MU did.
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I've been beating this drum a lot, but who the hell does Indiana nation think they're going to get so far superior to Crean? Answer, nobody. At best, best case scenario is a modest upgrade.
Their fan base is so arrogant it has them outright delusional of where reality stands circa 2015.
Unfortunately, Crean embraced and wholeheartedly endorsed the same standard and those expectations when he took the job. He cannot back away from them now.
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IU nation wants Brad.
I have believed for some time that Crean is a B- coach. I thought he had reached his peak at MU. If he had stayed at MU, within a couple of years, the grumblings would have started in earnest here. I believe he has peaked at IU. More importantly, the fanbase has come to believe that, too. They have looked at 7 years of work, 16 years overall, and have decided that he is not a coach to get IU back to the pinnacle they believe to be their birthright. They have reached the same conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses as a coach that most have here. He built the program up from the ashes, but he is not the one to take it to a high level of consistency. Not being able to consistently land bigs or consecutive really good classes, having unbalanced rosters, unable to attack a zone, the dreaded 3 man weave as a base offense..... IU nation doesn't have the same patience for these failings as MU did.
They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him. If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants. He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.
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Unfortunately, Crean embraced and wholeheartedly endorsed the same standard and those expectations when he took the job. He cannot back away from them now.
That's a good point, with his "It's Indiana, it's Indiana" words. But he's finding out that program just isn't a blue blood elite anymore and hasn't been in almost 30 years.
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They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him. If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants. He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.
Syracuse more appealing than Indiana University? Uhh, yeah...no. Syracuse's only success came when...they were big time cheaters. Now they lose 3 scholarships per year for the next 4 years, plus they already announced their coach is retiring...in 3 years. That's going to be great for bringing in solid recruiting classes. "Come to Syracuse, where you won't know who will be coaching in your last 2 seasons in college!"
Duke he could maybe be a candidate for I guess, but there's certainly no guarantee of that. Not to mention, nobody knows how long Coach 1K will be around. Chances are pretty good he's still around by the time Stevens's Celtics contract runs out in 4 years.
Stevens would absolutely kill it at IU. If Stevens showed any interest in the IU job they should immediately fire Crean, even if they have to pay him a full $12 million for his buyout. Indiana guy who has proven he can be very successful in the NCAA. He would get every recruit from Indiana, which would be a very good start to getting that program back to where they want to be.
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Tom Crean did great things for the Marquette program. I am very glad he helped bring the program back to what it is today.
Tom Crean did not rebuild the IU program. It was certainly a mess when he took over. But it was a mess that had an incredibly high ceiling. He took that high ceiling and in 7 seasons has turned that program into a team that hopes to be on the bubble every year. Regardless of whether you think IU fans overhype their program and expect way too much or not, that's not where IU should be as a program. He also "cleaned up" the program to the point of players transferring out of the program because of the loose "culture" of the program (drug use) and players driving under the influence and running other players over. But hey, the head coach doesn't send too many text messages to recruits, so the program is clean! Now he can just Tweet to them how much he is thinking about them.
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Marquette and Indiana.
If you think the situation at Indiana was "top 3" when he arrived you are insane. That program was in shambles.
Do I think Crean is a good fit to take teams to the next level? No. But you can't deny he can rebuild a program.
They had kids who smoked pot and didn't study...SCANDALOUS! It was massively blown out of proportion because it was Indiana and Sampson had been in trouble previously. Sampson was also 10x the coach Crean is and that Hoosier team was near the top of the rankings. Now they have kids getting arrested, but they study! Oh, and they're not nearly as good as they were under Sampson. Nice rebuild.
He did not "rebuild" Marquette. We had a couple down years under Deane, which were similar to the down years Marquette had after our Final Four. Under Crean.
Crean is a salesman, I'll give him that.
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You could argue it's Indiana and anyone could have success there but he did it at Marquette as well. And that was before we were a team that spent more on its program than 99% of schools.
9-9 in conference (8th place), 20-14 overall, 5-10 the last 15 games and a first round NCAA loss to a mid major in year 7 (coming off a terrible season in year 6) isn't much of a rebuild for a blue blood program like IU. Depaul fans would be happy. Hoosier fans have the pitchforks out.
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They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him. If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants. He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.
+1
He is the coach of the Boston Celtics. They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder). Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?
Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that. But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere. They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.
Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract
Crean has a $10 million buyout.
The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess).
So IU needs:
* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.
So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening. And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76ers.
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Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.
If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.
Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.
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Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.
If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.
Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.
Maybe, maybe not. They are over signed by 2 at the moment, so there is going to be roster change coming, but if Yogi and Troy Williams come back, and Thomas Bryant falls in his lap, which looks like could happen in the wake of the Syracuse sanctions, they could be decent next year. Is decent good enough? Now, if one or both of those guys leave, and Bryant goes elsewhere, Crean should probably do himself a favor and take a check to do the same.
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They had kids who smoked pot and didn't study...SCANDALOUS! It was massively blown out of proportion because it was Indiana and Sampson had been in trouble previously. Sampson was also 10x the coach Crean is and that Hoosier team was near the top of the rankings. Now they have kids getting arrested, but they study! Oh, and they're not nearly as good as they were under Sampson. Nice rebuild.
He did not "rebuild" Marquette. We had a couple down years under Deane, which were similar to the down years Marquette had after our Final Four. Under Crean.
Crean is a salesman, I'll give him that.
He is a salesman, which is why he did such a good job at the rebuilds. And sorry, there's no way to describe either situation as anything but a rebuild.
At Marquette, Crean inherited Wardle and Cordell. Really not much in the cupboard other than that. He got not only solid starters in Diener and Merritt, but also build a reliable group of role-players in guys like Sanders and Townsend. And of course, he put the two studs on the floor that carried us to the Final Four, Wade and Jackson. He consistently recruited top-100 players and energized the fanbase. Attendance went up 70% under Crean, the Al got built, we got into the Big East. Marquette basketball is where it is because of Crean.
I get that some people don't like him, but while O'Neill reminded people who we were, MU basketball could have fallen right back into the dredges of the NCAA after Deane. The only reason we got into C-USA was because of our close relationship with DePaul and had we hired a dud instead of Crean, we would still be there, or by this time probably kicked out to the Horizon or MVC. Like playing Villanova, Georgetown, and Providence every week? That's because of Crean. Like playing at the Garden every year? Also Crean. Hell, the attendance numbers people are complaining about now would have looked good before he arrived. His tenure here forged the path for Marquette basketball to be what it is today.
At Indiana, Sampson did plenty of damage, but things were already on the decline before arrived. Yes, Davis made that incredibly improbable Final Four run, but missed the tourney two of his last three years. Sampson's recruiting violations were bad, but the kinds of players he did recruit were worse. Most of his players either left or were kicked off the team. Crean took over a program that had two walk-ons on the roster, NCAA sanctions, and a fanbase at its lowest point probably ever. The first few years sucked, but he got the kids back to Assembly Hall, he got back to recruiting 5-star players.
Obviously, the fan support and wins followed. #1 ranking, 1-seed in the NCAAs, Big East titles, playing in the second weekend, no, they never reached Knight status, but compared to where they were when he took over it was night and day. Have they fallen off? Yes. In my opinion because Crean is better suited for a smaller job than what IU fans think it is. But they were absolutely not a top-3 program when he took over. When he took the job, they had only made the second weekend once in the previous 16 years. They hadn't won a title in over 20. They were clearly well behind Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, Syracuse, Kentucky, Connecticut, Florida, and Georgetown. They weren't top-10, much less top-3.
He made them relevant again. Not back to where they once were, but certainly not the dung-heap he took over. Crean is great at the rebuild. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully ignoring reality.
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+1
He is the coach of the Boston Celtics. They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder). Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?
Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that. But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere. They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.
Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract
Crean has a $10 million buyout.
The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess).
So IU needs:
* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.
So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening. And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76s.
Disagree with this completely. If I'm Brad Stevens the Indiana job is much more attractive than Duke. Following a legend at a blue blood/top program almost never works out. Hank/Rick at MU, Guthridge at N Carolina, Bartow at UCLA, Mike Davis at Indiana. Much better to be the guy who arrives after a string of failures (like Roy Williams at UNC).
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Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program. Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.
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They may want Stevens, I find it very hard to believe they'll get him. If he wants to go back to college, and that's a huge if, he'll have his pick of any opening he wants. He could wait things out until Coach K retires, or take over Syracuse, to name a couple that are more appealing than the living in the 1980's Indiana Hoosiers.
Neither Syracuse nor Duke will hire Stevens even if he wants those jobs. Both those will go to insiders.
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Maybe, maybe not. They are over signed by 2 at the moment, so there is going to be roster change coming, but if Yogi and Troy Williams come back, and Thomas Bryant falls in his lap, which looks like could happen in the wake of the Syracuse sanctions, they could be decent next year. Is decent good enough? Now, if one or both of those guys leave, and Bryant goes elsewhere, Crean should probably do himself a favor and take a check to do the same.
I believe it's past the point of no return. Crean's status with a large chunk of the fan base is such that they could enter the year in the top 25 this fall and they'll be on him for every loss.
Absolutely they could be good next year and they could be good every year. It's Indiana! It's Indiana! However, the heat is on from a good portion of the fans and I don't see it lightening up in a significant way.
McClain has been eyed by schools for a HC job before; now he's gone. Simply timing? Perhaps.
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Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program. Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.
I agree with this, but Brew's homage to the douche is so over the top hyperbole I thought Chico wrote it.
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+1
He is the coach of the Boston Celtics. They are rebuilding with a young team (including Jae Crowder). Why on earth would he leave a storied NBA franchise for a formerly good and now broken NCAA team?
Yes, if Coach K retires and they offer him a #1 seed team right away with half the McDonald AA lined up to be in his first recruiting class with the first 90 days of getting to Durham, I can see that. But that is not being offered so Brad is going nowhere. They have a better chance of getting Bobby Knight to come out of retirement than getting Stevens.
Additionally, Stevens if getting $22 million over 6 years.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3/4492098/brad-stevens-celtics-contract
Crean has a $10 million buyout.
The Celtics will give Stevens a raise to stay (my guess).
So IU needs:
* $10 million to buyout Crean
* probably about $30 to $40 million to get Brad and pay for any buyout of his contract.
So unless Mark Cuban wants to write a $50 million check, this is not happening. And if Cuban is writing $50 million checks, it's in NBA free agency to keep his old team from becoming the next 76ers.
I wouldn't get all excited about the rebuilding in Boston. They are improving no doubt, but they are 30-38 right now. The roster has a bunch of decent players, but no one that I would label a star. It looks like a ship sailing right into NBA mediocrity right now.
I think ultimately you are correct but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
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TC is losing an assistant:
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 51m51 minutes ago
UIC will hire Indiana assistant Steve McClain and news conference likely for Wednesday, sources told ESPN. Eddie Fogler handled search.
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(http://media.theindychannel.com/photo/2013/03/11/tom_crean_grin_1363016283877_385065_ver1.0_320_240.jpg)
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(https://s3.amazonaws.com/fundrazr-platform/campaigns/e77deb550f034efaa29dbd305781817f_snapshot.png)
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Crean obviously revitalized the Marquette program. Anyone who doesn't believe that he left the program much better than he found it isn't thinking objectively.
"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."
The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.
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(https://s3.amazonaws.com/fundrazr-platform/campaigns/e77deb550f034efaa29dbd305781817f_snapshot.png)
Good thing he makes enough money to get his soiled trousers cleaned, ai na?
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I agree with this, but Brew's homage to the douche is so over the top hyperbole I thought Chico wrote it.
I'm not a fan of Crean. I think he's a salesman more than anything. I also think he's a bit of a phony. He rebuilds programs on excitement more than anything. He can recruit, but he's inconsistent in that regard. Largely his success has come from two overlooked three stars in Wade and Oladipo.
After making his big run, he seems to go into coast mode. Wade was a huge loss but he should have been able to get enough talent to make the NCAAs, even with injuries. He's into that same mode at IU, which is why they want him out.
I also hate that he seems to always have one foot out the door. He was rumored to every major opening while he was here and used it to get annual pay raises, and now that his seat isn't so cushy at IU we see it happening again.
Crean has plenty of flaws. There's plenty not to like. But he can do the rebuild. He's a master of it, and part of what makes him so good is that phony, douchey personality that makes him a classic used cat salesman.
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"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."
The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.
Not even close. We might be worse on the court, but there was way more young talent to build around for Wojo. Also, the modern facilities, the conference, and the program reputation were things that attracted Wojo, and also things that Crean and Buzz put in place.
Wojo arrived to a weak roster but still a turnkey operation. Crean took over a marginal roster with none of the perks that explain why Wojo "admired Marquette from afar."
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He is a salesman, which is why he did such a good job at the rebuilds. And sorry, there's no way to describe either situation as anything but a rebuild.
At Marquette, Crean inherited Wardle and Cordell. Really not much in the cupboard other than that. He got not only solid starters in Diener and Merritt, but also build a reliable group of role-players in guys like Sanders and Townsend. And of course, he put the two studs on the floor that carried us to the Final Four, Wade and Jackson. He consistently recruited top-100 players and energized the fanbase. Attendance went up 70% under Crean, the Al got built, we got into the Big East. Marquette basketball is where it is because of Crean.
I get that some people don't like him, but while O'Neill reminded people who we were, MU basketball could have fallen right back into the dredges of the NCAA after Deane. The only reason we got into C-USA was because of our close relationship with DePaul and had we hired a dud instead of Crean, we would still be there, or by this time probably kicked out to the Horizon or MVC. Like playing Villanova, Georgetown, and Providence every week? That's because of Crean. Like playing at the Garden every year? Also Crean. Hell, the attendance numbers people are complaining about now would have looked good before he arrived. His tenure here forged the path for Marquette basketball to be what it is today.
At Indiana, Sampson did plenty of damage, but things were already on the decline before arrived. Yes, Davis made that incredibly improbable Final Four run, but missed the tourney two of his last three years. Sampson's recruiting violations were bad, but the kinds of players he did recruit were worse. Most of his players either left or were kicked off the team. Crean took over a program that had two walk-ons on the roster, NCAA sanctions, and a fanbase at its lowest point probably ever. The first few years sucked, but he got the kids back to Assembly Hall, he got back to recruiting 5-star players.
Obviously, the fan support and wins followed. #1 ranking, 1-seed in the NCAAs, Big East titles, playing in the second weekend, no, they never reached Knight status, but compared to where they were when he took over it was night and day. Have they fallen off? Yes. In my opinion because Crean is better suited for a smaller job than what IU fans think it is. But they were absolutely not a top-3 program when he took over. When he took the job, they had only made the second weekend once in the previous 16 years. They hadn't won a title in over 20. They were clearly well behind Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, Syracuse, Kentucky, Connecticut, Florida, and Georgetown. They weren't top-10, much less top-3.
He made them relevant again. Not back to where they once were, but certainly not the dung-heap he took over. Crean is great at the rebuild. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully ignoring reality.
Well said. I don't care for Crean--in fact, I actively root against him--but it's short-sighted to not appreciate what he did for the program, and moronic to not even acknowledge what he did. Wojo's situation is completely incomparable to Crean's. Hell, Wojo wouldn't even be at MU if it weren't for the direction Crean took the program.
That may sound like slurping or whatever people call it here, but anyone sane who actually remembers the program before 2002 would acknowledge how far we've come.
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"Better than he found it" is a helluva lot different than "rebuilt."
The "rebuild" Wojo has on his hands is 5x what Crean inherited.
Not. Even. Close.
Just stop.
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Not even close. We might be worse on the court, but there was way more young talent to build around for Wojo. Also, the modern facilities, the conference, and the program reputation were things that attracted Wojo, and also things that Crean and Buzz put in place.
Wojo arrived to a weak roster but still a turnkey operation. Crean took over a marginal roster with none of the perks that explain why Wojo "admired Marquette from afar."
I agree with this. Wojo's program is 'Top 15' turnkey. Few players on day one but a budget, facilities, private jet, etc. Think back to one of the reasons that Kevin O'Neil left. Al DiUlio simply wasn't prepared to make any reasonable commitment. Most of the credit for changing that goes to Bob Wild. And when he saw that Mike Deane believed that an occasional NCAA appearance was enough he canned his sorry arse. And then he listened to a young Crean and Bill Cords and started the building process. Trust me, there's still plenty of folks in leadership positions who believe basketball is at best a necessary evil. Fortunately, I have no reason to believe Mike Lovell is anything but 'all-in', including for sports beyond basketball. (No, we're not getting football.) But Wojo has every advantage at his disposal. His first recruiting class seems to indicate that he knows how to use it. Let's hope that starts to translate next season.
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I'm not a fan of Crean. I think he's a salesman more than anything. I also think he's a bit of a phony. He rebuilds programs on excitement more than anything. He can recruit, but he's inconsistent in that regard. Largely his success has come from two overlooked three stars in Wade and Oladipo.
After making his big run, he seems to go into coast mode. Wade was a huge loss but he should have been able to get enough talent to make the NCAAs, even with injuries. He's into that same mode at IU, which is why they want him out.
I also hate that he seems to always have one foot out the door. He was rumored to every major opening while he was here and used it to get annual pay raises, and now that his seat isn't so cushy at IU we see it happening again.
Crean has plenty of flaws. There's plenty not to like. But he can do the rebuild. He's a master of it, and part of what makes him so good is that phony, douchey personality that makes him a classic used cat salesman.
This is accurate. Most fans of "down programs" will ignore both coaching and personal inadequacies on the way up. When a program plateaus or turns a little south (see TC at MU or IU) those flaws become obvious even to the former fan boys.
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I don't like Crean and root against him, but I have to agree with Brewcity and Sultan. I'm glad he isn't still here, but he was certainly a salesman and whipped up interest.
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Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.
Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.
He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.
The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."
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Can't have "It's Indiana! It's Indiana" both ways.
If he truly believes It's Indiana and isn't blind, he knows he's past the point of no return.
Would be smart to negotiate a buyout with a non-offsetting lump sum payment and get on with life elsewhere.
In other words, Crean should quit.
I wouldn't. unnatural carnal knowledge IU's delusional fan base. Crean is doing a good job there. Not insanely good, but who could realistically do better? Calipari? Stevens? Coach K? Not gonna happen. Indiana is not what it thinks it is. It's a former blue blood, not a current one.
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Well said. I don't care for Crean--in fact, I actively root against him--but it's short-sighted to not appreciate what he did for the program, and moronic to not even acknowledge what he did. Wojo's situation is completely incomparable to Crean's. Hell, Wojo wouldn't even be at MU if it weren't for the direction Crean took the program.
That may sound like slurping or whatever people call it here, but anyone sane who actually remembers the program before 2002 would acknowledge how far we've come.
Agreed. I know two things about Tom Crean.
1) He is a duplicitous, manipulative snake oil salesman.
2) The debt Marquette owes him is massive.
The two things are mutually exclusive.
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Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.
Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.
He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.
The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."
I could never rationalize beating a blue blood at home as a bad thing. Besides, pretty sure the IU fanbase had really, really high expectations--if not unreasonably high--long before Crean took his turn at the helm.
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In other words, Crean should quit.
I wouldn't. unnatural carnal knowledge IU's delusional fan base. Crean is doing a good job there. Not insanely good, but who could realistically do better? Calipari? Stevens? Coach K? Not gonna happen. Indiana is not what it thinks it is. It's a former blue blood, not a current one.
He shouldn't quit. He should negotiate a buyout that helps both sides - he takes $ and it's a done deal with I4, but it's less than the max of the current buyout provisions. Then, he can find other work and keep cash from I4.
I4 pays out cash but says, 'well it wasn't $16MM, $11.1MM, or $7.5MM!!!!'
Other coaches can do better at I4. It's an X's and O's thing more than anything.
Recruiting is helped because I4. The pinnacle, baby.
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Syracuse more appealing than Indiana University? Uhh, yeah...no. Syracuse's only success came when...they were big time cheaters. Now they lose 3 scholarships per year for the next 4 years, plus they already announced their coach is retiring...in 3 years. That's going to be great for bringing in solid recruiting classes. "Come to Syracuse, where you won't know who will be coaching in your last 2 seasons in college!"
Duke he could maybe be a candidate for I guess, but there's certainly no guarantee of that. Not to mention, nobody knows how long Coach 1K will be around. Chances are pretty good he's still around by the time Stevens's Celtics contract runs out in 4 years.
Stevens would absolutely kill it at IU. If Stevens showed any interest in the IU job they should immediately fire Crean, even if they have to pay him a full $12 million for his buyout. Indiana guy who has proven he can be very successful in the NCAA. He would get every recruit from Indiana, which would be a very good start to getting that program back to where they want to be.
Syracuse's situation, while painful for them and their fanbase, is temporary. They have great tradition, fan support, in an enormous media market. Not to mention the deepest basketball conference in the country, and I don't think it's even close. Syracuse is an elite job once they get past these sanctions. Way better than Indiana, who again, hasn't been relevant except for a couple of blips (Final Four in '02 and Big Ten regular season title in '13), has been just another face in the crowd on the college basketball landscape for almost 30 years now.
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Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.
Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.
He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.
The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."
Why would any NBA team hire a coach with X's and O's deficiencies, particularly one with the perception of a slickster, used car salesman persona? You don't have to recruit 17 year olds and their parents in the Association.
If I'm an NBA GM, I don't want him anywhere near my bench. If I'm an AD at a smaller school, I'd give him a call.
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9-9 in conference (8th place), 20-14 overall, 5-10 the last 15 games and a first round NCAA loss to a mid major in year 7 (coming off a terrible season in year 6) isn't much of a rebuild for a blue blood program like IU. Depaul fans would be happy. Hoosier fans have the pitchforks out.
I'm not about to argue they had anything but an overall mediocre season, but dismissing Wichita St as merely an "NCAA loss to a mid major" is just totally misleading. They went to the Final Four just two years go. They were 35-1 last year. They still had some of the core members of those two teams back this year. They may play in a mid major league, but their recent track record is that of a very high major.
And IU is not a blue blood anymore. This isn't 1987 anymore. They were sliding several years before Knight left even, and have generally continued to slide further since, save for their '02 run and '13 Big Ten title. That's been it since the early '90's for that program. At some point, you have to look at results, and they haven't been there in Bloomington for a long time now, certainly not nearly enough to call them a blue blood still.
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Syracuse's situation, while painful for them and their fanbase, is temporary. They have great tradition, fan support, in an enormous media market. Not to mention the deepest basketball conference in the country, and I don't think it's even close. Syracuse is an elite job once they get past these sanctions. Way better than Indiana, who again, hasn't been relevant except for a couple of blips (Final Four in '02 and Big Ten regular season title in '13), has been just another face in the crowd on the college basketball landscape for almost 30 years now.
So what does that make us?
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I could never rationalize beating a blue blood at home as a bad thing. Besides, pretty sure the IU fanbase had really, really high expectations--if not unreasonably high--long before Crean took his turn at the helm.
In the 20 years after the end of the UCLA era, Indiana was one of the best, if not *the* best college basketball programs in the country. No team won more national titles during that time frame.
A history like that isn't easily forgotten.
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Crean is the perfect example of how one Final Four can make you look like a great coach. He has been a head coach for 16 years, only 8 tournament appearances, 3 second weekends, 9 total wins, and 4 one and dones.
You take out the final four and its 7 appearances, 5 wins, and 2 second weekends. Which is a mid major resume not a power conference resume.
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Exactly. Or, in chicospeak, he got lucky for one crapshoot. Taking out 2003, who would want a coach with the resume from the other years at MU?
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So what does that make us?
This.
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Crean is the perfect example of how one Final Four can make you look like a great coach. He has been a head coach for 16 years, only 8 tournament appearances, 3 second weekends, 9 total wins, and 4 one and dones.
You take out the final four and its 7 appearances, 5 wins, and 2 second weekends. Which is a mid major resume not a power conference resume.
Give me a break already, the guy won the Big Ten regular season title just two years ago, yet he has a "mid major resume", if he had not made the '03 Final Four?
And you can't just dismiss and say, well if he wouldn't have coached MU to that Final Four. He did. You can't just blithely dismiss that accomplishment. He has the same number of D-1 Final Fours as Bo Ryan, and they've coached about the same number of years at the D-1 level.
I mean, I don't care for the guy either, but back to reality Crean haters.
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They went to the Final Four just two years go. They were 35-1 last year. They still had some of the core members of those two teams back this year. They may play in a mid major league, but their recent track record is that of a very high major.
They were really good two years ago. Even better last year. Of course that's beside the point - Indiana didn't lose to either of those teams. They lost to a 7th seed who finished in second place in a mid major conference. That's a mid major.
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They were really good two years ago. Even better last year. Of course that's beside the point - Indiana didn't lose to either of those teams. They lost to a 7th seed who finished in second place in a mid major conference. That's a mid major.
Wichita State was the #14 team in the Final AP poll. That's not mid-major. That's playing a team that should have been seeded higher.
There are a lot of things you can fault Crean for. Yesterday's result was entirely predictable however.
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Give me a break already, the guy won the Big Ten regular season title just two years ago, yet he has a "mid major resume", if he had not made the '03 Final Four?
And you can't just dismiss and say, well if he wouldn't have coached MU to that Final Four. He did. You can't just blithely dismiss that accomplishment. He has the same number of D-1 Final Fours as Bo Ryan, and they've coached about the same number of years at the D-1 level.
I mean, I don't care for the guy either, but back to reality Crean haters.
I'm just stating facts. If Wojo has his track record 7 years into being at MU I would hope we would can him. You can't expect to be a high major but accept mid major success.
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I'm just stating facts. If Wojo has his track record 7 years into being at MU I would hope we would can him. You can't expect to be a high major but accept mid major success.
"Which is a mid major resume not a power conference resume." - Not a fact. An opinion.
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They were really good two years ago. Even better last year. Of course that's beside the point - Indiana didn't lose to either of those teams. They lost to a 7th seed who finished in second place in a mid major conference. That's a mid major.
So your definition of a mid major is rather fluid depending on the year, and how it suits the argument you're making. OK, got it. Your earlier quote you just made a blanket statement they lost to a mid major, period.
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we're. . .getting football.
#donedeal
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I'm just stating facts. If Wojo has his track record 7 years into being at MU I would hope we would can him. You can't expect to be a high major but accept mid major success.
Dismissing his Final Four MU team, and pretending it didn't happen to make your point is hardly "stating facts".
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"Which is a mid major resume not a power conference resume." - Not a fact. An opinion.
A very weak one at that.
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Agreed. I know two things about Tom Crean.
1) He is a duplicitous, manipulative snake oil salesman.
2) The debt Marquette owes him is massive.
The two things are mutually exclusive.
I agree the two are mutually exclusive but I disagree that MU owes him a financial, philosophical, or moral debt. He was rewarded handsomely for his time at Marquette. In many ways, too much.
I struggle with the economics of American culture. The rest of the world is puzzled by how little we pay our teachers. We lavish riches on entertainers while ignoring the fundamentals. I have a colleague who spent 25 years as a geneticist working at Fred Hutch to cure cancer. He was on the team that was awarded a Nobel Prize for its work on cell cycle control - work that has saved lives. He made a fraction of what Tanned Tommy did at Marquette. That strikes me as odd.
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Not odd at all. Free enterprise. Find a country that has a better system that can still defend its liberty.
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So your definition of a mid major is rather fluid depending on the year, and how it suits the argument you're making. OK, got it. Your earlier quote you just made a blanket statement they lost to a mid major, period.
Actually, no. Wichita State is a mid major, period. Two years as a top ten team doesn't make an MVC team "major". Ten years plus (see Gonzaga), okay. But for two years they were an elite team despite their mid major status. This year they were back to being the quintessential mid major. Good, solid, not great.
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Crean is the perfect example of how one Final Four can make you look like a great coach. He has been a head coach for 16 years, only 8 tournament appearances, 3 second weekends, 9 total wins, and 4 one and dones.
You take out the final four and its 7 appearances, 5 wins, and 2 second weekends. Which is a mid major resume not a power conference resume.
Okay...you want to throw out his best season, throw out his worst season as well. That gives him this resume:
14 Seasons
278-176 (.612 WP)
7 NCAA Appearances
5-7 NCAA Record
2 Sweet 16s
3 NIT Appearances
2-3 NIT Record
That's not too bad. Averages almost 20 wins per season in high major conferences. There are a ton of programs that would love that level of success. Hell, if you give him 2 years for the rebuild and measure him based on the years after his first two (again, discounting best and worst) you have a 226-107 (0.679 WP) record in 10 seasons with 7 NCAA Appearances and 2 NIT Appearances. Those are pretty good numbers.
Crean isn't a Hall of Famer, he isn't an elite coach, but acting like he's a mid-major coach is just silly. The guy has put together a nice career for himself in taking jobs that were once great, largely fell from grace, and putting them back on the map. No one will confuse him with Al McGuire, but let's not pretend he's Bob Dukiet either.
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Okay...you want to throw out his best season, throw out his worst season as well. That gives him this resume:
14 Seasons
278-176 (.612 WP)
7 NCAA Appearances
5-7 NCAA Record
2 Sweet 16s
3 NIT Appearances
2-3 NIT Record
That's not too bad. Averages almost 20 wins per season in high major conferences. There are a ton of programs that would love that level of success. Hell, if you give him 2 years for the rebuild and measure him based on the years after his first two (again, discounting best and worst) you have a 226-107 (0.679 WP) record in 10 seasons with 7 NCAA Appearances and 2 NIT Appearances. Those are pretty good numbers.
Crean isn't a Hall of Famer, he isn't an elite coach, but acting like he's a mid-major coach is just silly. The guy has put together a nice career for himself in taking jobs that were once great, largely fell from grace, and putting them back on the map. No one will confuse him with Al McGuire, but let's not pretend he's Bob Dukiet either.
Yeah, I agree mostly. Have never been a Crean fan, but the vitriol against him is "beyond the pale". We should feel sorry for the guy. His walk away money will not even support him and Joanie in the manner they are accustomed to.
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I agree the two are mutually exclusive but I disagree that MU owes him a financial, philosophical, or moral debt. He was rewarded handsomely for his time at Marquette. In many ways, too much.
I struggle with the economics of American culture. The rest of the world is puzzled by how little we pay our teachers. We lavish riches on entertainers while ignoring the fundamentals. I have a colleague who spent 25 years as a geneticist working at Fred Hutch to cure cancer. He was on the team that was awarded a Nobel Prize for its work on cell cycle control - work that has saved lives. He made a fraction of what Tanned Tommy did at Marquette. That strikes me as odd.
Exactly. We don't owe Crean sh!t. In fact, he still owes us $100k for the soccer stadium. His buyout should cover that nicely, he better pony up!
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Yeah, I agree mostly. Have never been a Crean fan, but the vitriol against him is "beyond the pale".
Your directed more vitriol towards Buzz Williams in one year than Crean's taken here from anyone in the last 8 or 9 - and Buzz was the better coach!
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I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.
Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.
I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.
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I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.
Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.
I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.
It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you. At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on. In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.
However, Buzz going on national TV the next day to talk about how much better his new "love" is was inexcusable....Bill Cords should have thrown all of his stuff onto the front lawn of the Al Mcguire Center. Except for the Led Zeppelin albums. Gotta keep those.
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Your directed more vitriol towards Buzz Williams in one year than Crean's taken here from anyone in the last 8 or 9 - and Buzz was the better coach!
Thank you for sharing that astute observation--and I don't mean "and Buzz was a better coach". How did Buzz's year fare against Creans?
Answer: Crickets!
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While Brent and TT did very good things for our program while they were here, the way both treated Marquette like a used rubber when they left is hard to forgive and forget.
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Can we change the title of this thread to "Too Tanned Tommy?" Or perhaps "Tommy Too Tanned?"
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While Brent and TT did very good things for our program while they were here, the way both treated Marquette like a used rubber when they left is hard to forgive and forget.
Careful there, references to prophylactics and/or privates and such will likely get you labelled as "disgusting," hey?
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Can we change the title of this thread to "Too Tanned Tommy?" Or perhaps "Tommy Too Tanned?"
We've been rollin' with just plain old, T-Cubed.
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I agree the two are mutually exclusive but I disagree that MU owes him a financial, philosophical, or moral debt. He was rewarded handsomely for his time at Marquette. In many ways, too much.
I struggle with the economics of American culture. The rest of the world is puzzled by how little we pay our teachers. We lavish riches on entertainers while ignoring the fundamentals. I have a colleague who spent 25 years as a geneticist working at Fred Hutch to cure cancer. He was on the team that was awarded a Nobel Prize for its work on cell cycle control - work that has saved lives. He made a fraction of what Tanned Tommy did at Marquette. That strikes me as odd.
Fair point, but semantic at best. We should appreciate what Crean did at Marquette. It was very good work as a college basketball coach.
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It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you. At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on. In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.
However, Buzz going on national TV the next day to talk about how much better his new "love" is was inexcusable....Bill Cords should have thrown all of his stuff onto the front lawn of the Al Mcguire Center. Except for the Led Zeppelin albums. Gotta keep those.
no it isn't. This is a weird and oft-brought-up analogy that indicates some really unhealthy attitudes about both romantic and professional relationships here on Scoop.
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The attempt at revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Crean did wonderful things for MU. Love him or hate him, facts are fats.
Shhhh.....let the agenda driven folks here have their agenda. Facts be damned.
I've also never seen so many predictions go wrong in the last 7 years than by MU fans when it comes to IU and Crean, and this thread is full of many more. MU fans regarding Crean are as delusional as IU fans that think they are still in the same breath as Duke, UK, KU and others, but there is no arguing with either of them. At some point in their lives, they might get something right on their predictions.
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IU nation wants Brad.
I have believed for some time that Crean is a B- coach. I thought he had reached his peak at MU. If he had stayed at MU, within a couple of years, the grumblings would have started in earnest here. I believe he has peaked at IU. More importantly, the fanbase has come to believe that, too. They have looked at 7 years of work, 16 years overall, and have decided that he is not a coach to get IU back to the pinnacle they believe to be their birthright. They have reached the same conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses as a coach that most have here. He built the program up from the ashes, but he is not the one to take it to a high level of consistency. Not being able to consistently land bigs or consecutive really good classes, having unbalanced rosters, unable to attack a zone, the dreaded 3 man weave as a base offense..... IU nation doesn't have the same patience for these failings as MU did.
Currently less than 10% believe he should be fired in two polls running the last two days online with over 15,000 participants. It's always interesting to me who this "fanbase" is. Is the MU fanbase only those on MUScoop? Is the IU fanbase only those on Peegs?
I don't disagree with you that he isn't an elite coach, he never has been. His roster management is terrible, much like Buzz's was. He does a great job of rebuilding and running a good program. That 3 man weave offense I think was #1 in the Big Ten this year. IU nation is a joke and has been for decades. Their hero worship of Knight was half the problem. They think they are deserving of John Wooden walking through the doors, but it isn't happening.
Fred Glass knows it.
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Two very bad things that happened to Crean:
- Beating UK at home. Indiana fans expected that every season from then on.
- With two NBA first rounders, losing in the Sweet 16. That really exposed Crean's X's and O's deficiencies and inability to adjust.
Add to it the superior recruiting classes UK has landed and IU hasn't AND the off-court issues, Crean's luster - as Buzz has realized needs to be protected - has faded dramatically.
He will be around next year. When the July 1, 2016 buyout drops, he's gone.
The best thing for Crean is to become an NBA assistant. He'll have coaching gigs "for life."
Make that two lottery picks. Oliadipo was the second pick and Zeller was the fourth pick.
Can you imagine any MU coach having two of the top 4 picks, with one being a scoring Wade type forward and the other a center ... and exiting in the second round?
And don't forget that last year they didn't even make the NIT and had another lottery pick (9th overall) center Noah Vonleh.
Let's put this in prospective. MU was 13-19. If we had this exact same team and also Willie Cauley-Stein as our center (Mock drafts have him as the 5th to 7th pick), how would we feel about Wojo not even making the NIT?
Bottom line, last three years Crean had three lottery picks and won one tourney game with two of them and could not even make post season with a third.
Inexcusable.
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Make that two lottery picks. Oliadipo was the second pick and Zeller was the fourth pick.
Can you imagine any MU coach having two of the top 4 picks, with one being a scoring Wade type forward and the other a center ... and exiting in the second round?
And don't forget that last year they didn't even make the NIT and had another lottery pick (9th overall) center Noah Vonleh.
Let's put this in prospective. MU was 13-19. If we had this exact same team and also Willie Cauley-Stein as our center (Mock drafts have him as the 5th to 7th pick), how would we feel about Wojo not even making the NIT?
Bottom line, last three years Crean had three lottery picks and won one tourney game with two of them and could not even make post season with a third.
Inexcusable.
Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it. They won two tourney games. Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right? Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road. Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed. He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far? Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class? Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won. He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.
He will leave on his own, not due to a firing. Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year. Is it a lock? No. He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.
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A history like that isn't easily forgotten.
Not that Marquette fans ever long for a more gilded age...
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Exactly. We don't owe Crean sh!t. In fact, he still owes us $100k for the soccer stadium. His buyout should cover that nicely, he better pony up!
Crean is a welcher! That sonuvabitch!
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Crean gave us the Al......got us into the Big East......recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Wes Matthews......He did a lot of good for us......It was a mutually beneficial relationship......He elevated our program.....
JOHN DODDS!!!!!
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I hated how Crean left. But after years of success with Buzz and the optimism I feel about Wojo, I just don't get people still hating on him. He's a decent coach and an immense part of our current solid foundation.
Crean gave us the Al, got us into the Big East, and recruited great ambassadors of Marquette like Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, and Wes Matthews. He did a lot of good for us. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. He elevated our program, we provided a springboard for his career.
I think we're all better off for him having been here, just like he's also better off.
For that, the Prick was handsomely paid. Did the job he was paid to do. That is all. Was a phony sumbitch throughout his tenure. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, hey? Adios mf'er and the horse ya rode in on.
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It's like when someone you have been dating seriously suddenly breaks up with you. At first you are devastated and angry, but after awhile you should be able to move on. In most cases, you realize you are better off without him, but still remember the good times fondly.
The difference between a man and a woman.
When a woman dumps a dude he immediately calls up some buddies to go drinking while trolling for tail. He is neither devastated nor angry but instantly ready to savor something new, fresh, and exciting. In every case he knows he is better off without her and couldn't give a sh1t if there were ever any good times.
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Haha Keefer and the Doc. You guys are hilarious.
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Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it. They won two tourney games. Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right? Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road. Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed. He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far? Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class? Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won. He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.
He will leave on his own, not due to a firing. Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year. Is it a lock? No. He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.
Let me summarize this post in one sentence ... "life sucks for jock strapping sniffing defenders of Crean."
And, ok, he won two games two years ago, not one ... With two lottery picks. Maybe Crean should get a raise.
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Your data is wrong....again...even after you revised it. They won two tourney games. Furthermore, you do understand that NBA drafting doesn't mean a hill of beans of how good a kid is at that time, right? Vonleh was in the D-league this year he was that bad. He was drafted not because he was a stud at IU, but because he MIGHT be good years down the road. Zeller was way overvalued for his selection, and it has also showed. He was picked 4th....is he the 4th best player in that class thus far? Hell, is he even in the top 25 of that NBA class? Let's not confuse reality with your opinion, and please get your facts right on the games won. He also won't be gone today, tomorrow, Monday as your original posts in this thread opined, or the various other predictions you have made over the years on his departure.
He will leave on his own, not due to a firing. Secondly, do not be surprised for one second if he is coaching there again next year. Is it a lock? No. He might be tired of the delusion syndrome that is IU, but the IU adminstrators know that no one else is trotting in on that white horse either because they don't want to deal with IU nation and their time warped mentality.
Vonleh was as good as Hasheem Thabeet, who was the second pick of the 2009 draft and pretty much went straight the D-league.
The difference is Colhoun used Thabeet to get to the final four. Crean could not even make the NIT with Vonleh.
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Let me summarize this post in one sentence ... "life sucks for jock strapping sniffing defenders of Crean."
And, ok, he won two games two years ago, not one ... With two lottery picks. Maybe Crean should get a raise.
No one is defending him, but when you're going to go on a rant of how poorly he was doing, shouldn't you get the facts correct? Is that defending him or simply having you call it straight?
So he gets fired tomorrow or Monday? Which one?
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So he gets fired tomorrow or Monday? Which one?
He probably won't but he should. He's done. He will never be able to recruit as every other coach will convincingly tell kids he has one-foot out the door.
Welcome to 5th to 8th place in the B1G year-in and year-out IU nation!
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Vonleh was as good as Hasheem Thabeet, who was the second pick of the 2009 draft and pretty much went straight the D-league.
The difference is Colhoun used Thabeet to get to the final four. Crean could not even make the NIT with Vonleh.
I like you Another84, think you are a good poster, but your obsession over him leads you to make some really odd statements, many factually incorrect.
Are you suggesting the UCONN team of 2009 that had Kemba Walker, Dyson, Adrien and Thabeet was somehow equivalent to last year's IU team? Thabeet is a much better player than Vonleh was in college. Thabeet was also the #2 pick in the draft, which you keep seeming to tout. Vonleh was what, 9th or 10th? Your comparisons are strange. Thabeet was a stud in college and a lousy pro. Vonleh was not great in college, and will not be great in the NBA either. Thabeet was 7'3", Vonleh 6'10".
And no one has ever said Crean is as good a coach as Calhoun. Rip the guy all you want, he deserves plenty, but it makes your arguments a lot stronger when they have some semblance of reality to them.
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Here is the bigger issue ... The Olidipo, Zeller, Vonleh era was the beginning of Crean turning iU into another destination of "one-and-dones." This was something he could not do at MU and concluded would never happen. Then it happened at IU and he fell on one his face.
He had his chance at elite status and blew it.
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Here is the bigger issue ... The Olidipo, Zeller, Vonleh era was the beginning of Crean turning iU into another destination of "one-and-dones." This was something he could not do at MU and concluded would never happen. Then it happened at IU and he fell on one his face.
He had his chance at elite status and blew it.
Wait, there you go again. Oladipo was part of turning IU into a destination of one and dones? A 3 star player that Crean took a bit of a chance on and Oladipo credits for pushing him so hard to develop into a NBA player....by the way he was a 3 year player. Zeller was a 2 year player. How exactly were these muti-year players supposed to turn IU into a destination of one and dones? In fact, that's not what IU wants to be. In my view, he shouldn't have gone after Vonleh. If you aren't UK, trying to win at the one and done approach is going to bite most coaches in the ass, but I wouldn't equate Zeller and Oladipo into one and done status since neither was a one and done.
He's been declared dead on this board for 5 of the last 7 years. One day one of you is going to be right.
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IU faithful probably thrilled to see 2 Indiana teams playing longer than they are right now.
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IU faithful probably thrilled to see 2 Indiana teams playing longer than they are right now.
Probably like the MU faithful last year with UW-milwaukee and Wisconsin, and UWGB....aina?
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Crean left 7 years ago this month. The passion to just despise the guy, hope his career goes in the toilet, revise history of his coaching accomplishments at two high major schools, etc, that flame burns that bad for some still? Holy sh*t, get over it already. And I say this freely admitting I don't disagree a bit he's done many things to make it easy to dislike him, but put it in perspective in the grand scheme of life for crying out loud.
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Probably like the MU faithful last year with UW-milwaukee and Wisconsin, and UWGB....right?
UWM and UWGB were both in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament last year? News to me.
"I'm an MU fan first." Good story.
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Crean left 7 years ago this month. The passion to just despise the guy, hope his career goes in the toilet, revise history of his coaching accomplishments at two high major schools, etc, that flame burns that bad for some still? Holy sh*t, get over it already. And I say this freely admitting I don't disagree a bit he's done many things to make it easy to dislike him, but put it in perspective in the grand scheme of life for crying out loud.
Been saying that for 7 years, and I actually worked directly for the guy. I had to see it first hand and at times it wasn't pleasant and times he was fine, but my God people are f'd up here. So much so they can't even make rational posts as they are so seeded in vitriol, anger, or whatever....facts seem to not apply at all. Bizarre.
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UWM and UWGB were both in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament last year? News to me.
"I'm an MU fan first." Good story.
UWGB was in the NIT, we were in nothing. UW-milwaukee made the NCAA tournament and lost to Villanova 73-53.
MU home, the other three schools in the post season...two in the NCAA and UWGB in the NIT.
First round, second round, regardless MU faithful in the same spot....not going as far as the other teams in the state.
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UWGB was in the NIT, we were in nothing. UW-milwaukee made the NCAA tournament and lost to Villanova 73-53.
MU home, the other three schools in the post season...two in the NCAA and UWGB in the NIT.
First round, second round, regardless MU faithful in the same spot....not going as far as the other teams in the state.
NIT? Wow! Awesome! And the other team won their horrible conference tournament. Congrats!
Haha. You really reach when it comes to defending your homeboy.
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NIT? Wow! Awesome! And the other team won their horrible conference tournament. Congrats!
Haha. You really reach when it comes to defending your homeboy.
Not defending anyone, he most certainly isn't my homeboy....I've labeled him what he is for many years here. Use search if you must.
NIT > no tournament
Have a good evening.
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Been saying that for 7 years, and I actually worked directly for the guy. I had to see it first hand and at times it wasn't pleasant and times he was fine, but my God people are f'd up here. So much so they can't even make rational posts as they are so seeded in vitriol, anger, or whatever....facts seem to not apply at all. Bizarre.
This is Scoop, a bizarre board. I try to ignore the fools.
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Not defending anyone, he most certainly isn't my homeboy....I've labeled him what he is for many years here. Use search if you must.
NIT > no tournament
Have a good evening.
Haha. You're comparing a team winning its horrible conference's autobid and getting smoked out of the first round and another team's winning its horrible conference's autobid...to the NI freaking T...to 2 teams playing to go on to the S16. Not to mention I don't recall any coach we've ever hired referring to the reason he came to MU because "it's MU, it's MU." And no NCAA = failed season, NIT or not. Just like 3 NCAA Tourney appearances, S16 your best season in 7 years at IU is a failure.
Keep reaching to defend your homeboy.
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Picture Marquette practicing in the old gym playing in Conference USA needing to win the conference tournament most of the time to make the NCAA's.
That's where we are without Crean.
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Picture Marquette practicing in the old gym playing in Conference USA needing to win the conference tournament most of the time to make the NCAA's.
That's where we are without Crean.
Says who? No way anybody can know that for sure. Maybe we would've had the next Coach K on our hands. A guy who stays for life and wins multiple national titles. Pretending nobody could've possibly done as well or better at MU than Crean did is as bad or worse than pretending Crean did nothing for MU.
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Picture Marquette practicing in the old gym playing in Conference USA needing to win the conference tournament most of the time to make the NCAA's.
That's where we are without Crean.
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That's a huge assumption...
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That's a huge assumption...
Yup.
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That's a huge assumption...
It's assumption based on what Crean did, there are two other assumptions to make then, one worse and one better.
I think Crean beat out Quin Synder, Tom Davis and Barry Collier.
Cords made the best decision based on those choices. I don't see a better one in that group (B10 retread, Nebraska flame out and a very similar Quin Synder).
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Says who? No way anybody can know that for sure. Maybe we would've had the next Coach K on our hands. A guy who stays for life and wins multiple national titles. Pretending nobody could've possibly done as well or better at MU than Crean did is as bad or worse than pretending Crean did nothing for MU.
See list above and let us know what would have worked out better.
Knock it off, guy did a lot for Marquette, but left in a crapty way.
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Ok you guys are saying another guy could have done it but Crean DID DO IT!
I think Crean is an assbag too, but I'm not going to discredit what he did.
I'm a Bulls fan and I know Michael Jordan is king of the assbags but is anyone going to discount what he accomplished?
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Do a search on Twitter for "Tom Crean" and you'll see MU Scoop is the least of his problems.
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Do a search on Twitter for "Tom Crean" and you'll see MU Scoop is the least of his problems.
No doubt, Indiana is heavy mouth breathers.
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What happens in two years IF Wojo flames out/succeeds, gets hired at Duke AND Crean's buy-out lessens and he continues with middling success? Does MU welcome him back?
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What happens in two years IF Wojo flames out/succeeds, gets hired at Duke AND Crean's buy-out lessens and he continues with middling success? Does MU welcome him back?
New AD...new President...I don't think so.
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What happens in two years IF Wojo flames out/succeeds, gets hired at Duke AND Crean's buy-out lessens and he continues with middling success? Does MU welcome him back?
I can't see any way it happens, but if it did, it would totally be worth it just for the responses on this board.
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New AD...new President...I don't think so.
I would assume that there would be a lot of people not renewing season tickets. My problem with Crean was when he left. The '08 team has the lowest combined efficiency ratings of an MU team since Pomeroy started tracking. They were screwed by the seeding process (no way that ND should have been higher than us, based purely on 3 head to head games) and lost a heart breaker in OT on a shot, I still have no idea how it went in. Decent recruiting class coming in, led by Ty Taylor, who would have helped a lot over the next 4 years. And he left for Indiana, a decent team with all kinds of problems coming. We were in a better conference, with better facilities. I grew up in Indiana and I really only believe it's a blue blood in Indiana (not nationally) anymore. I don't think that 17 and 18 year old players think it's cool that Indiana won a national championship 10 years before they were born. I appreciate what he did for Marquette, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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I would assume that there would be a lot of people not renewing season tickets. My problem with Crean was when he left. The '08 team has the lowest combined efficiency ratings of an MU team since Pomeroy started tracking. They were screwed by the seeding process (no way that ND should have been higher than us, based purely on 3 head to head games) and lost a heart breaker in OT on a shot, I still have no idea how it went in. Decent recruiting class coming in, led by Ty Taylor, who would have helped a lot over the next 4 years. And he left for Indiana, a decent team with all kinds of problems coming. We were in a better conference, with better facilities. I grew up in Indiana and I really only believe it's a blue blood in Indiana (not nationally) anymore. I don't think that 17 and 18 year old players think it's cool that Indiana won a national championship 10 years before they were born. I appreciate what he did for Marquette, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
Crean grew up in Big Ten land in the 70s and 80s when Indiana was clearly one of the best programs in the country. I can understand the allure. And it is still a good job. Indiana still generates a lot of D1 basketball talent.
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New AD...new President...I don't think so.
Same bank, though.
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Crean grew up in Big Ten land in the 70s and 80s when Indiana was clearly one of the best programs in the country. I can understand the allure. And it is still a good job. Indiana still generates a lot of D1 basketball talent.
A big part of Crean leaving was his inability to recruit at the highest level here. He's had his faults at IU, but he has landed 4 McDonald's All Americans. Indiana certainly isn't what it was when Crean was growing up, but he is attracting the kind of recruits he could never attract here.
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Says who? No way anybody can know that for sure. Maybe we would've had the next Coach K on our hands. A guy who stays for life and wins multiple national titles. Pretending nobody could've possibly done as well or better at MU than Crean did is as bad or worse than pretending Crean did nothing for MU.
Correct, no way anyone will know for sure. You are exactly right. Just as there is no way of knowing for sure if we hired someone other than Buzz that guy does even better, or worse. We'll never know. We'll never know for sure if we hired someone other than Al McGuire we could have won 5 national titles. We'll never know for sure.
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A big part of Crean leaving was his inability to recruit at the highest level here. He's had his faults at IU, but he has landed 4 McDonald's All Americans. Indiana certainly isn't what it was when Crean was growing up, but he is attracting the kind of recruits he could never attract here.
And most of those high level prospects are from Indiana, which still produces near the most college basketball players per capita in the US.
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I'm a Bulls fan and I know Michael Jordan is king of the assbags but is anyone going to discount what he accomplished?
Michael Jordan was a genius. Geniuses, for lack of a better word, are different. The public recognizes that and largely forgives their eccentricities. Fair or not, a basketball coach of modest accomplishment is not granted that same privilege. Sixteen years in the public eye as an asshat and a douchebag trump one final four and a pair of sweet 16s. TC isn't just ripped on MU and IU boards. Fan bases everywhere despise him and mock him. He has very few friends in the coaching fraternity. Most writers see through his obviously self serving act. People everywhere are celebrating his struggles - it's what happens to a first class jerk on the way down.
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Michael Jordan was a genius. Geniuses, for lack of a better word, are different. The public recognizes that and largely forgives their eccentricities. Fair or not, a basketball coach of modest accomplishment is not granted that same privilege. Sixteen years in the public eye as an asshat and a douchebag trump one final four and a pair of sweet 16s. TC isn't just ripped on MU and IU boards. Fan bases everywhere despise him and mock him. He has very few friends in the coaching fraternity. Most writers see through his obviously self serving act. People everywhere are celebrating his struggles - it's what happens to a first class jerk on the way down.
I don't disagree with your assessment of him, but he's been gone 7 years now. Move on maybe? The sports world is full of coaches that are incorrigible jerks. It's like Crean came in and messed up the sainthood that is the college basketball coaches profession. Your could celebrate the struggles of countless jerks, some worse than him.
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I don't disagree with your assessment of him, but he's been gone 7 years now. Move on maybe? The sports world is full of coaches that are incorrigible jerks. It's like Crean came in and messed up the sainthood that is the college basketball coaches profession. Your could celebrate the struggles of countless jerks, some worse than him.
Well stated. He's celebrating his struggles? Character revealed, and not at all surprising. I'd love to know how that clown knows who his friends are. Love the "everywhere" lazy comment as well....same old tripe from him. Thank you for quoting him.
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Correct, no way anyone will know for sure. You are exactly right. Just as there is no way of knowing for sure if we hired someone other than Buzz that guy does even better, or worse. We'll never know. We'll never know for sure if we hired someone other than Al McGuire we could have won 5 national titles. We'll never know for sure.
Agreed. Which is why I say that assuming that without Tom Crean we would be practicing in the Old Gym and playing in the Horizon League is just as bad as trying to discredit what Crean did for MU.
I have been consistent in saying that I am thankful for the very many very good things Tom Crean did for the program at Marquette. I will always be thankful for those things. I will never try to discredit those things. But I will continue having fun watching him fail at Indiana for the way he left Marquette and for being a d-bag. Saying those things doesn't mean I am discrediting what he did at Marquette.
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I don't disagree with your assessment of him, but he's been gone 7 years now. Move on maybe? The sports world is full of coaches that are incorrigible jerks. It's like Crean came in and messed up the sainthood that is the college basketball coaches profession. Your could celebrate the struggles of countless jerks, some worse than him.
I think you're shortchanging TC's ranking in the pantheon of jerks, but I'll certainly concede there are plenty of them out there. But he was our jerk, so I take him more personally. Please quote me in your response so Chico can thank you, claim to have me on ignore and still respond to my post with his typically false/inane remarks. Hilarious.
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Ok you guys are saying another guy could have done it but Crean DID DO IT!
I think Crean is an assbag too, but I'm not going to discredit what he did.
I'm a Bulls fan and I know Michael Jordan is king of the assbags but is anyone going to discount what he accomplished?
See list above and let us know what would have worked out better.
Knock it off, guy did a lot for Marquette, but left in a crapty way.
Where have I tried to discredit what Tom Crean did at Marquette?
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I think you're shortchanging TC's ranking in the pantheon of jerks, but I'll certainly concede there are plenty of them out there. But he was our jerk, so I take him more personally. Please quote me in your response so Chico can thank you, claim to have me on ignore and still respond to my post with his typically false/inane remarks. Hilarious.
WTF? Go rip him if you don't like what he said.
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...and challenges Tom Crean
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2015/03/20/doyel-iu-plays-best-basketball-loses/25114069/
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...and challenges Tom Crean
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2015/03/20/doyel-iu-plays-best-basketball-loses/25114069/
It's Gregg, not Greg. He's been so all over the board in the last 5 months....fire him, don't fire him, fire him, don't fire him.....he's like a teenage girl. He's a confirmation bias wet dream. Contingent of IU fans that love him because of what he writes. Contingent of IU fans that hate him because of what he writes. So goes the beat of the drum. He is used by both parties to back up their views, and he serves both purposes because of his ever shifting opinion on the subject.
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Picture Marquette practicing in the old gym playing in Conference USA needing to win the conference tournament most of the time to make the NCAA's.
That's where we are without Crean.
Absolutely not true. The University's commitment to basketball is what allowed the program to improve and advance.
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Absolutely not true. The University's commitment to basketball is what allowed the program to improve and advance.
They go hand in hand. The Final Four led to massive donation avalanche to get the Al built. It also meant us being accepted into the Big East...direct words from commissioner Mike Tranghese of the Big East.
The university gave a commitment and then we had to go out and do it. Which we did.
(http://www.marquette.edu/magazine/images/winter2009/whoop/ball_15.jpg)
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It's Gregg, not Greg.
Is it my fault his parents can't spell?
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WTF? Go rip him if you don't like what he said.
Joking, Hutch - giving Chicos (not you) grief for his typical "I've got him on ignore but I can respond because someone else quoted him" BS.
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They go hand in hand. The Final Four led to massive donation avalanche to get the Al built. It also meant us being accepted into the Big East...direct words from commissioner Mike Tranghese of the Big East.
The university gave a commitment and then we had to go out and do it. Which we did.
(http://www.marquette.edu/magazine/images/winter2009/whoop/ball_15.jpg)
The Al broke ground in May 2002 and opened the fall after the final four. Not sure how many donations from a final four 6 months before the building opened really contributed. Anyone know?
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The Al broke ground in May 2002 and opened the fall after the final four. Not sure how many donations from a final four 6 months before the building opened really contributed. Anyone know?
In the days after MU whooped #1 Kentucky, MU announced the "Final $4 Million" donation campaign that week for the Al McGuire Center.
Tracy also said there was some unexpected funding help which came the university's way while trying to raise the funds for the McGuire center.
"An anonymous donor made a multi-million dollar donation early on in the process," Tracy said. "Also Marquette's trip to the final four last year allowed the university to raise more than $4 million dollars in approximately two weeks."
The campaign was called the push for the "Final $4 million," according to Tracy. Tracy said it was the Final $4 million which put Marquette over the top for its goal of $31 million dollars for the project.
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In the days after MU whooped #1 Kentucky, MU announced the "Final $4 Million" donation campaign that week for the Al McGuire Center.
Thanks for the info. I know sometimes ground is broke before full funding but couldn't remember if this was the case with the Al.
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Thanks for the info. I know sometimes ground is broke before full funding but couldn't remember if this was the case with the Al.
Yup, they were having trouble closing the deal for awhile. MU's play that season helped secure more donations, then the tournament run helped more, then the Final Four run with the special campaign drove it home.
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Just as Yankee Stadium will forever be known as the "House that Miller Huggins Built, so too will the Al McGuire Center be known as the "House that Tom Crean Built."
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Was Tom Crean ever rumored for other jobs while head coach at Marquette (not including Indiana), not unlike Buzz while he was here? If so, does anyone remember what schools tried pursuing him?
I would imagine he was at his highest demand immediately after the Final Four run.
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Was Tom Crean ever rumored for other jobs while head coach at Marquette (not including Indiana), not unlike Buzz while he was here? If so, does anyone remember what schools tried pursuing him?
I would imagine he was at his highest demand immediately after the Final Four run.
Yes, some where he pushed it to get more money, and some where schools went after him and he declined. Fans on this board were very receptive of it.
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T-Cubed had his posse float his name out there for every gig that opened up from CYO head coach to Cub Scout leader.
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Do you remember any of the schools, Chicos? I'm just curious.
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Rubie Q @Rubie_Q 5m5 minutes ago
Maybe Tom Crean and Gregg Marshall can do a reality series called JOB SWAP.
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Do you remember any of the schools, Chicos? I'm just curious.
Arkansas http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2824653
Illinois http://a.espncdn.com/ncb/columns/katz_andy/1543052.html
Etc, etc
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I heard he interviewed at Ohio State from two different people.
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Never interviewed at Illinois
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Most of it done by intermediaries so that schools can say "we didn't interview" or no official contact was made. How the game is played.
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Most of it done by intermediaries so that schools can say "we didn't interview" or no official contact was made. How the game is played.
Pfffft.. they can say or 'describe' things as they wish, I'm really a badger fanl?
Schools twist and/or lie quite often. Don't need to go to a middle man just to avoid 'we didn't interview' being 'untrue.'
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Most of it done by intermediaries so that schools can say "we didn't interview" or no official contact was made. How the game is played.
Yep, a lot of back-channeling goes on with coach searches (as well as player transfers ).
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Oh God. Illinois rejected him because their AD couldn't stand him. I know this for a fact.
And, I forget, how did the media find out about Arkansas? Oh yeah, Crean told them in order to get a raise.
This stuff is older than Chico's mistress.
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I was also told by a former Bucks assistant GM that Crean never interviewed with U of Illinois.
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nm
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Rubie Q @Rubie_Q 5m5 minutes ago
Maybe Tom Crean and Gregg Marshall can do a reality series called JOB SWAP.
I really can't believe that Marshall is still at Wichita St. No offense to their program, they seem to be heavily invested fan and school wise in men's basketball, but they're in a mid major league, and probably can't come close to matching what a power conference school can throw at him money wise. He's won huge there, and before that was very successful at Winthrop. He'd be at the top of my list if I were an AD.
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Crean left 7 years ago this month. The passion to just despise the guy, hope his career goes in the toilet, revise history of his coaching accomplishments at two high major schools, etc, that flame burns that bad for some still? Holy sh*t, get over it already. And I say this freely admitting I don't disagree a bit he's done many things to make it easy to dislike him, but put it in perspective in the grand scheme of life for crying out loud.
There are people who are still angry Phil Jackson left the Bulls for the Lakers. It's sports. Passion is irrational at times.
But I hear you.
We need to focus our schadenfreude to Buzzy Buzz Buzz.
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I really can't believe that Marshall is still at Wichita St. No offense to their program, they seem to be heavily invested fan and school wise in men's basketball, but their in a mid major league, and probably can't come close to matching what a power conference school can throw at him money wise. He's won huge there, and before that was very successful at Winthrop. He'd be at the top of my list if I were an AD.
He makes good coin there. He has had multiple opportunities to leave and has said no. Doesn't want the stress, likes his deal. Making $1.8million per year in Kansas not to deal with the crazy fans that will chew up someone and spit them out. UCLA tried, he said no. Missouri tried, he said no...and they may try again ;) . Yes, someone could roll out the truck, but he's going to have to weigh if it is worth the crap that comes with. An awful lot of coaches now make some great coin and have no reason to sign for the BS that goes with some of these jobs.
McDermott of Creighton gave him some wise advice when he went to Iowa State and didn't do well, that has stuck with Marshall. Smart didn't go. Stevens didn't go to another college gig. Amaker hasn't gone. If the money is really good, why deal with the crap by taking on the headaches?
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I really can't believe that Marshall is still at Wichita St. No offense to their program, they seem to be heavily invested fan and school wise in men's basketball, but they're in a mid major league, and probably can't come close to matching what a power conference school can throw at him money wise. He's won huge there, and before that was very successful at Winthrop. He'd be at the top of my list if I were an AD.
Some coaches actually like where they are and want to stay there. They make good money, like the support they get from administration and alumni, and don't want the pressure that comes with being at a "name" school.
I don't know if that's exactly what Marshall's deal is, but I wouldn't blame him if it were. He's living the good life of a local celeb, and though he faces pressure (as all coaches do), it's not the same insane kind of pressure.
Who was it who said something about not messing with happy? Oh wait ... never mind ... but you get what I'm saying.
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He makes good coin there. He has had multiple opportunities to leave and has said no. Doesn't want the stress, likes his deal. Making $1.8million per year in Kansas not to deal with the crazy fans that will chew up someone and spit them out. UCLA tried, he said no. Missouri tried, he said no...and they may try again ;) . Yes, someone could roll out the truck, but he's going to have to weigh if it is worth the crap that comes with. An awful lot of coaches now make some great coin and have no reason to sign for the BS that goes with some of these jobs.
McDermott of Creighton gave him some wise advice when he went to Iowa State and didn't do well, that has stuck with Marshall. Smart didn't go. Stevens didn't go to another college gig. Amaker hasn't gone. If the money is really good, why deal with the crap by taking on the headaches?
Don't mess with happy...
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Some coaches actually like where they are and want to stay there. They make good money, like the support they get from administration and alumni, and don't want the pressure that comes with being at a "name" school.
I don't know if that's exactly what Marshall's deal is, but I wouldn't blame him if it were. He's living the good life of a local celeb, and though he faces pressure (as all coaches do), it's not the same insane kind of pressure.
Who was it who said something about not messing with happy? Oh wait ... never mind ... but you get what I'm saying.
Yeah, I get what you, Chicos, and JTB are all saying - that's certainly how I would view it as well. It's just really not the norm anymore in big time college basketball, or anywhere in sports. These guys have such massive egos, they want and chase the power, money, glory that goes with the high pressure jobs.
But if that's who Marshall is, I say great for him. It's certainly a nice change from the norm.
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Why would any NBA team hire a coach with X's and O's deficiencies, particularly one with the perception of a slickster, used car salesman persona? You don't have to recruit 17 year olds and their parents in the Association.
If I'm an NBA GM, I don't want him anywhere near my bench. If I'm an AD at a smaller school, I'd give him a call.
Great question.
Why did KO - a man who ruffled feathers everywhere he went - ever get the chance to become an NBA HC? Because of his defensive mind?
The world is full of unusual circumstances.
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Pat Forde and Seth Davis refute Too Tanned Tommy To The Tide (T6) rumors
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/reports_tom_crean_not_leaving.html
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Great question.
Why did KO - a man who ruffled feathers everywhere he went - ever get the chance to become an NBA HC? Because of his defensive mind?
The world is full of unusual circumstances.
Correction:
Kev coached the Raptors around 2003-2004
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Arkansas http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2824653
Illinois http://a.espncdn.com/ncb/columns/katz_andy/1543052.html
Etc, etc
It came out in a FOIA request that Crean inquired about the Iowa job.
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Yeah, I get what you, Chicos, and JTB are all saying - that's certainly how I would view it as well. It's just really not the norm anymore in big time college basketball, or anywhere in sports. These guys have such massive egos, they want and chase the power, money, glory that goes with the high pressure jobs.
But if that's who Marshall is, I say great for him. It's certainly a nice change from the norm.
I would argue the opposite. In my view in years past you had to take the gig, but more and more coaches don't do that anymore or delay it. The money is good at so many other places that the stress and nonsense that goes with it isn't worth the extra $500K a year if it means being fired 10 years earlier. UCLA has to go deep in the arsenal to get a replacement, IU had to go deep for a replacement, Kruger left but I honestly don't think he went to a high stress job...OU is a football school. So on and so forth. Examples on the other side as well, but when you see the Stevens, Marshalls, Smarts, etc stay where they are at, it gives comfort to others questioning if the other side is as green as people make it out to be.
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I would argue the opposite. In my view in years past you had to take the gig, but more and more coaches don't do that anymore or delay it. The money is good at so many other places that the stress and nonsense that goes with it isn't worth the extra $500K a year if it means being fired 10 years earlier. UCLA has to go deep in the arsenal to get a replacement, IU had to go deep for a replacement, Kruger left but I honestly don't think he went to a high stress job...OU is a football school. So on and so forth. Examples on the other side as well, but when you see the Stevens, Marshalls, Smarts, etc stay where they are at, it gives comfort to others questioning if the other side is as green as people make it out to be.
Couldn't agree more. That difference in salary gets made up if your tenure is a tad longer.
If TC wanted he could have stayed at MU forever. Never faced a fraction of the vitriol he gets at IU. And looking at what Buzz did, who says it couldn't have been better on the court for TC at MU?
We shall see how the next year or two goes, but when I heard about the Crean kid getting taunted at a HS game I couldn't imagine that happening at MUHS.
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Pat Forde and Seth Davis refute Too Tanned Tommy To The Tide (T6) rumors
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/reports_tom_crean_not_leaving.html
This is the first time I've heard TC called: "Much-maligned Indiana coach Tom Crean"
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This is the first time I've heard TC called: "Much-maligned Indiana coach Tom Crean"
That article says Crean has a relationship with Saban....I could have sworn someone quoted another person here about few coaching friends. Yet, the keep coming up. Izzo, LaRussa, Sherman, McCarthy, Saban, etc. Who am I to question someone that knows so little.
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They go hand in hand. The Final Four led to massive donation avalanche to get the Al built. It also meant us being accepted into the Big East...direct words from commissioner Mike Tranghese of the Big East.
The university gave a commitment and then we had to go out and do it. Which we did.
So, how did DePaul get in?
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That article says Crean has a relationship with Saban....I could have sworn someone quoted another person here about few coaching friends. Yet, the keep coming up. Izzo, LaRussa, Sherman, McCarthy, Saban, etc. Who am I to question someone that knows so little.
I guess this list of football/baseball coaches and hisformer boss makes him Miss Congeniality.
I don't understand why a person like yourself would claim a person is a jerk in one post and then turn around and provide a list of his so-called "friends."
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So, how did DePaul get in?
Chicago.
Tranghese knew the Big 10 plan to expand eastward and gobble up his home territory. DePaul was a natural selection based on pre-existing relationships with the other C-USA schools and the hope was for them to become competitive enough to recharge the market.
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I really can't believe that Marshall is still at Wichita St. No offense to their program, they seem to be heavily invested fan and school wise in men's basketball, but they're in a mid major league, and probably can't come close to matching what a power conference school can throw at him money wise. He's won huge there, and before that was very successful at Winthrop. He'd be at the top of my list if I were an AD.
Doesn't pass the sniff test for many
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That article says Crean has a relationship with Saban....I could have sworn someone quoted another person here about few coaching friends. Yet, the keep coming up. Izzo, LaRussa, Sherman, McCarthy, Saban, etc. Who am I to question someone that knows so little.
Quick glance at your "list" of all TC's buddies in the fraternity of college basketball coaches. I see one (1), Tom Izzo, a guy he worked for. So maybe a few was an exaggeration on my part. As to your "Who am I" query, you're not very complex. Most here have figured out exactly who you are.
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Quick glance at your "list" of all TC's buddies in the fraternity of college basketball coaches. I see one (1), Tom Izzo, a guy he worked for. So maybe a few was an exaggeration on my part. As to your "Who am I" query, you're not very complex. Most here have figured out exactly who you are.
Quoting Lenny for ChicosBailBonds' reading pleasure. ;D ;D
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Quoting Lenny for ChicosBailBonds' reading pleasure. ;D ;D
Thanks. Best move I ever made to put him on ignore.
I don't know who his friends are, I know Lenny absolutely doesn't know. His comment was about coaching friends, and he has plenty. Another is Don Mattingly that was mentioned today. As for college basketball coaching friends, have no idea. Absolutely none, neither does Lenny.
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Only question is does Tommy get the axe tomorrow, Sunday or Monday?
.................
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Fred Glass doing what he said he would do. Things could change, but this continues to be what I've heard each of the last 3 years from fantastic sources. It's why I chuckle every year when I read the experts on this board about him. Now, I still think he leaves on his own before being sacked. Doesn't look like it will be this year, certainly doesn't look like it will be IU making the decision. I guess we'll see, Glass could always change course but he is pretty public there is no change.
You can agree or disagree with his opinion. From what I've heard it comes down to a few things. Repaying him for the crapstorm he had to inherit. Knowing that a number of great coaches want nothing to do with the unhinged IU base. Contract. First semblance of any success of any kind for the program since 2002. Not necessarily in that order.
This from today.
"Coach Crean has five years on his contract. I don't expect him to go anywhere, and I don't want him to go anywhere," Glass said in a statement sent to the Indianapolis Star.
Indiana went 20-14 this year, Crean's seventh at IU.
The program with the seventh-most NCAA Tournament appearances (38) and wins (64) in college basketball history - as well as five national titles - has been as far as the Sweet Sixteen only three times since 1994 (2002, 2012 and 2013).
Glass said in his statement that "from a team perspective, there were certainly some positives this year, from a program perspective; we are not where we want to be."
Glass added: "My goals for this program are to perennially contend for and to win multiple Big Ten championships, regularly go deep in the NCAA Tournament and win our next national championship. Be elite, if you will.
"As a lifelong Hoosier and IU basketball fan, alumnus and current AD, nobody wants that more than me.
"Coach Crean's status should be based on his ability to achieve those goals goal forward, not what he has or hasn't done in the past.
"Because I believe in the team he has assembled and is assembling, his leadership of it and their ability to start achieving our program goals, I continue to support Tom Crean as our coach."
Crean took over after the NCAA sanctions of Kelvin Sampson and led IU to Sweet Sixteen appearances in 2012 and 2013 as well an outright Big Ten regular-season title in 2013.
If Crean were fired, he would be owed a buyout in the neighborhood of $11 million-12 million, paid out over the life of the contract that runs through the 2020-21 season, minus income earned in those years.
Glass' statement came the same day IU announced the seventh men's basketball transfer in the past two seasons.
"Tom Crean is the coach here because I believe the future is bright and he can lead us to our goals, not because of the buyout in that contract," Glass said.
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Lots of eggs in one shoddy basket. I like it
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I guess this list of football/baseball coaches and hisformer boss makes him Miss Congeniality.
I don't understand why a person like yourself would claim a person is a jerk in one post and then turn around and provide a list of his so-called "friends."
Because I'm trying to be objective and truthful, and not a bitter, hateful, ex-girlfriend. Pretty simple, really. I've had douches as bosses and I would say that if someone asked. If they also asked if he\she was a drug user, had no friends, cheated on their spouses, were ineffective, or whatever and it wasn't true....I'd correct them. It's the right thing to do.
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Lots of eggs in one shoddy basket. I like it
Could be.....but watching the experts here for 7 straight years has been enjoyable.
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Could be.....but watching the experts here for 7 straight years has been enjoyable.
It's been enjoyable watching Crean make 3 Tourneys in 7 years too.
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Could be.....but watching the experts here for 7 straight years has been enjoyable.
I mean, I think we can all agree he's hit his peak with IU and is on the decline. He's got the same rap in Bloomington as he had in MKE. He works hard but is very limited in ability
I don't think IU is willing to admit defeat to that buyout. Either that, or they've come to the realization they're no longer in the top tier programs and this is the best they can do
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It's been enjoyable watching Crean make 3 Tourneys in 7 years too.
That is true, of course it is equally true that he has made 3 tourneys in 4 years. Some people like to spin data, but yes you are correct.
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I mean, I think we can all agree he's hit his peak with IU and is on the decline. He's got the same rap in Bloomington as he had in MKE. He works hard but is very limited in ability
I don't think IU is willing to admit defeat to that buyout. Either that, or they've come to the realization they're no longer in the top tier programs and this is the best they can do
Actually, I don't think we can all agree on that. If they get Bryant, which I think they will and Williams and Yogi stay, they will be a top 15 team this upcoming season and in the top 3 of the Big Ten. I thought IU would make the tournament this year and the experts didn't. Who knows. We'll see.
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That is true, of course it is equally true that he has made 3 tourneys in 4 years. Some people like to spin data, but yes you are correct.
Overall, Crean has been a disappointment at IU and there's no way around it. Why you can't just stay out of threads ripping him is bizarre.
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Overall, Crean has been a disappointment at IU and there's no way around it. Why you can't just stay out of threads ripping him is bizarre.
Why is it bizarre? I've ripped on him plenty....that doesn't count? Or do you object to correcting people for making fallacious comments?
I guess the IU brass doesn't agree with you. The IU unhinged on message boards, well if the guy isn't Bob Knight they don't really care so to them anything is a disappointment.
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That is true, of course it is equally true that he has made 3 tourneys in 4 years. Some people like to spin data, but yes you are correct.
Spin data? Why only look at only 4 of his 7 year tenure?
Yes, some people do like to spin data apparently.
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Spin data? Why only look at only 4 of his 7 year tenure?
Yes, some people do like to spin data apparently.
Seems pretty simple to me.
If someone made the NCAAs 3 times in the last four years and someone else decided to include three years earlier when he inherited an absolute mess, one would wonder if that person was stating something with a bias and not recognizing the totality of the information.
This coach made the NCAAs 3 of the last 4 years.....also 3 of the last 7....Tony Bennett is his name. Now, if you were to say Tony Bennett has only made the NCAA tournament 3 of the last 7 years you would also be correct, but people would correct you (even though technically you didn't need correcting) for taking a biased slate to things.
Seems pretty simple to me.
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I'm not being snarky at all here, but if IU is who they think they are, Crean's record means he should be fired. They believe themselves to be in the discussion with the true blue bloods of college basketball. I can't think of another "blue blood" that would accept these results. No tourney appearance in his 7th year, or 5th good year
What he inherited is no longer an excuse
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Why is it bizarre? I've ripped on him plenty....that doesn't count? Or do you object to correcting people for making fallacious comments?
I guess the IU brass doesn't agree with you. The IU unhinged on message boards, well if the guy isn't Bob Knight they don't really care so to them anything is a disappointment.
The fact that IU is not firing him does not mean that he hasn't been a disappointment overall. He has. I respect what Crean did for our program and he has done some good things at IU based on what he walked into. I have no doubt however he had much higher expectations of consistent success when he left here for IU. He hasn't achieved them. And he was a douche about how he left.
I have seen you rip on him and that's fine. But honestly, who give a sh*t if people on a message board make inaccurate comments (from your perspective)? Your appearance in a thread about Crean is as predictable as Ners' appearance in any thread that he could possibly connect to Derrick. After all this time, why bother? You're not his PR rep. That's what I find bizarre.
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I'm not being snarky at all here, but if IU is who they think they are, Crean's record means he should be fired. They believe themselves to be in the discussion with the true blue bloods of college basketball. I can't think of another "blue blood" that would accept these results. No tourney appearance in his 7th year, or 5th good year
What he inherited is no longer an excuse
The IU administration knows who they are at the present time, the faithfully unhinged think they are something they are not. This is an athletic department that was deeply in debt, had all kinds of issues and has been trying to climb out...which it now has. The football program still sucks, and in today's world that is a problematic.
Let's not replace blue blood with elite, those are two different things. You're actually wrong with your data...he did get a tourney appearance in his 7th year. I also can't remember a blue blood that had to do a total rebuild like they did in the last 30 years.
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The fact that IU is not firing him does not mean that he hasn't been a disappointment overall. He has. I respect what Crean did for our program and he has done some good things at IU based on what he walked into. I have no doubt however he had much higher expectations of consistent success when he left here for IU. He hasn't achieved them. And he was a douche about how he left.
I have seen you rip on him and that's fine. But honestly, who give a sh*t if people on a message board make inaccurate comments (from your perspective)? Your appearance in a thread about Crean is as predictable as Ners' appearance in any thread that he could possibly connect to Derrick. After all this time, why bother? You're not his PR rep. That's what I find bizarre.
I give a sh*t....I'd say the same thing if people here said Buzz beats his wife, or John Calipari molests little boys. You can do it all you want, but don't be surprised if someone says that isn't true.
No doubt many people think he is a disappointment. I would put myself in that category, but I also am not surprised one iota about him not being fired from everything I have heard from people there, people in high positions in the sports world, and from various AD's I've spoken to...including Glass. Not surprised one bit. Doesn't mean he doesn't leave on his own or things could change, but it certainly doesn't look like it right now. Much bigger things that were going on and bigger picture items that too many people just don't know about it.
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The IU administration knows who they are at the present time, the faithfully unhinged think they are something they are not. This is an athletic department that was deeply in debt, had all kinds of issues and has been trying to climb out...which it now has. The football program still sucks, and in today's world that is a problematic.
Let's not replace blue blood with elite, those are two different things. You're actually wrong with your data...he did get a tourney appearance in his 7th year. I also can't remember a blue blood that had to do a total rebuild like they did in the last 30 years.
You're right, it totally slipped my mind that they made it this year. I just kept thinking about the last 3 weeks of their season
A blue blood should be able to recruit without effort. The sell should never be as hard.
Much lesser programs have had much more success with much less. Blue bloods shouldn't rebuild, they should restock
At this point, recruits were 12 years from being born when IU last raised a banner. Every year that goes by, the more IU becomes a very average program. Less of a blue blood and even less of an elite
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Damn - if I was an important enough person to speak with Fred Glass personally, I'd make sure the first people that knew about it were all of my closest Internet friends.
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You're right, it totally slipped my mind that they made it this year. I just kept thinking about the last 3 weeks of their season
A blue blood should be able to recruit without effort. The sell should never be as hard.
Much lesser programs have had much more success with much less. Blue bloods shouldn't rebuild, they should restock
At this point, recruits were 12 years from being born when IU last raised a banner. Every year that goes by, the more IU becomes a very average program. Less of a blue blood and even less of an elite
They aren't elite, haven't been elite in 20 years.
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I give a sh*t....I'd say the same thing if people here said Buzz beats his wife, or John Calipari molests little boys. You can do it all you want, but don't be surprised if someone says that isn't true.
No doubt many people think he is a disappointment. I would put myself in that category, but I also am not surprised one iota about him not being fired from everything I have heard from people there, people in high positions in the sports world, and from various AD's I've spoken to...including Glass. Not surprised one bit. Doesn't mean he doesn't leave on his own or things could change, but it certainly doesn't look like it right now. Much bigger things that were going on and bigger picture items that too many people just don't know about it.
I haven't said a thing about Crean. And your sense of self-importance just might be a little inflated if you feel such an immense need to defend a coach on a message board at every turn. Get a grip.
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Damn - if I was an important enough person to speak with Fred Glass personally, I'd make sure the first people that knew about it were all of my closest Internet friends.
Many people have spoken to Fred and others at IU. If you were lucky enough to work there and have some connections, it helps. Many IU people are lifers that still work there and good friends.
I'm just trying to shed some light on things. I guess you could listen to the fans here that year after year say he is about to be fired and isn't is certainly an option. I said years ago here that this was a long term play by Glass and IU....and well, who is still employed as the head coach. Just sayin..
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Oh man.
CTC is up to something!
Jeff Rabjohns @JeffRabjohns
Indiana basketball coach Tom Crean attends Notre Dame football coaches clinic. #iubb
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Must be there to give his kid an award
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I haven't said a thing about Crean.
Uhm, your last 4 or 5 posts....
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You're right, it totally slipped my mind that they made it this year. I just kept thinking about the last 3 weeks of their season
A blue blood should be able to recruit without effort. The sell should never be as hard.
Much lesser programs have had much more success with much less. Blue bloods shouldn't rebuild, they should restock
At this point, recruits were 12 years from being born when IU last raised a banner. Every year that goes by, the more IU becomes a very average program. Less of a blue blood and even less of an elite
So many jokes to be said about the raising the banner comment but I'm too drunk to think of them come on people help me out!
Something about Crean raising banners? Anybody?
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Because I'm trying to be objective and truthful, and not a bitter, hateful, ex-girlfriend. Pretty simple, really. I've had douches as bosses and I would say that if someone asked. If they also asked if he\she was a drug user, had no friends, cheated on their spouses, were ineffective, or whatever and it wasn't true....I'd correct them. It's the right thing to do.
Ex-girlfriend? You are aware I couldn't stand him when he was here, are you not? In fact, none of the vitriol the Indiana fans have for him is surprising to me in the least because I was saying the very same things when he was in Milwaukee. It just took those rubes a little longer to catch on.
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Ex-girlfriend? You are aware I couldn't stand him when he was here, are you not? In fact, none of the vitriol the Indiana fans have for him is surprising to me in the least because I was saying the very same things when he was in Milwaukee. It just took those rubes a little longer to catch on.
I answered this statement: "I don't understand why a person like yourself would claim a person is a jerk in one post and then turn around and provide a list of his so-called "friends."
Pretty simple. Yes, you didn't like him from the start....guess what, I got to spend the first 6 months of his MU career with him tied at the hip...plenty for me not to like either and I stated it. My point is that despite that, if I feel false statement was made I'm going to correct it. He's a douche for many legitimate reasons, no need to make up others that are untrue.
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I'm sure IU faithful are thrilled with the 4 Tourney wins in 7 years.
But wait, I'm "spinning data" (not sure how, but hey, it's what Chicos said).
So let me rephrase:
I'm sure the IU faithful are thrilled with 0 wins in the last 2 years for IU, Crean's 6th and 7th season. That would've given him 2 seasons to completely blow up the program and rebuild it how he saw fit, and then get 4 years worth of every single one of his own players into the program. The result is 0 Tourney wins in those 2 years. Outstanding.
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Crean sucks
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I'm sure IU faithful are thrilled with the 4 Tourney wins in 7 years.
But wait, I'm "spinning data" (not sure how, but hey, it's what Chicos said).
So let me rephrase:
I'm sure the IU faithful are thrilled with 0 wins in the last 2 years for IU, Crean's 6th and 7th season. That would've given him 2 seasons to completely blow up the program and rebuild it how he saw fit, and then get 4 years worth of every single one of his own players into the program. The result is 0 Tourney wins in those 2 years. Outstanding.
The IU faithful aren't happy with anything...ever.
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Uhm, your last 4 or 5 posts....
"I give a sh*t....I'd say the same thing if people here said Buzz beats his wife, or John Calipari molests little boys. You can do it all you want, but don't be surprised if someone says that isn't true."
The above quote was your comment in regards to people talking about Crean. My response that "I haven't said a thing about Crean" was specifically directed at the context you created above. Now you may not have been including me in the "you can do it all you want" comment but it sure seemed like it. Let's not twist my comments to suit your perspective.
Crean accomplished some really great things here (with the help of Wade). The manner in which he left was bush league. Overall, he's been an utter disappointment at IU, all things considered. And your compulsive need to jump into any thread ripping him (regardless of the instances where you've ripped him yourself) is bizarre. It just is.
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The IU faithful aren't happy with anything...ever.
They were filled with glee when ranked #1 and moments before tipoff of the first game of the year, Glass announced a contract extension for Crean & lied/misled/goofed? About the buyout.
Happy times those were!
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He probably won't but he should. He's done. He will never be able to recruit as every other coach will convincingly tell kids he has one-foot out the door.
Welcome to 5th to 8th place in the B1G year-in and year-out IU nation!
They just landed Thomas Bryant this morning over Kentucky, Missouri and Syracuse. You are on a roll
http://247sports.com/Player/Thomas-Bryant-23596
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I thought he was to. Thomas Bryant would have looked great in MU Blue and Gold.Hopefully Wojo will get MU's respectability
back for the Big-Time recruits. Like maybe Michigan State and Arizona etc. We started with Henry. Stretching it a bit, how about Diallo, Rabb or Jaylen Brown? One-and-doners, who cares. I know we have to start from scratch. Good class for 2015.
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I thought he was to. Thomas Bryant would have looked great in MU Blue and Gold.Hopefully Wojo will get MU's respectability
back for the Big-Time recruits. Like maybe Michigan State and Arizona etc. We started with Henry. Stretching it a bit, how about Diallo, Rabb or Jaylen Brown? One-and-doners, who cares. I know we have to start from scratch. Good class for 2015.
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Do you expect Wojo to get every big name recruit? You bring this up everytime a big name recruit commits somewhere else.
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I thought he was to. Thomas Bryant would have looked great in MU Blue and Gold.Hopefully Wojo will get MU's respectability
back for the Big-Time recruits. Like maybe Michigan State and Arizona etc. We started with Henry. Stretching it a bit, how about Diallo, Rabb or Jaylen Brown? One-and-doners, who cares. I know we have to start from scratch. Good class for 2015.
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It is beyond ludicrious to think we could get in on Diallo, Rabb, or Brown at this point. Maybe if Wojo had been hired yesterday (like Mullin) but those guys are pretty well dialed in to where they're going.
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I thought he was to. Thomas Bryant would have looked great in MU Blue and Gold.Hopefully Wojo will get MU's respectability
back for the Big-Time recruits. Like maybe Michigan State and Arizona etc. We started with Henry. Stretching it a bit, how about Diallo, Rabb or Jaylen Brown? One-and-doners, who cares. I know we have to start from scratch. Good class for 2015.
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Stretching it "a bit?" Earl you crack me up.
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They just landed Thomas Bryant this morning over Kentucky, Missouri and Syracuse. You are on a roll
http://247sports.com/Player/Thomas-Bryant-23596
Good/helpful pick-up for I4.
I don't mean this in the wrong way, but I've also had reservations about Thomas Bryant, dating back to his first USA bball camp. Has the size and some of the skill to be very good, but throughout the years he's also been old-manish and mechanical in his movements. Not a big usage guy either... size is great, but I just wouldn't put him up there with say the top 20 kids in 2015. Really helpful addition for I4, but not a huge fan of Bryant.
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It is beyond ludicrious to think we could get in on Diallo, Rabb, or Brown at this point. Maybe if Wojo had been hired yesterday (like Mullin) but those guys are pretty well dialed in to where they're going.
Probably to the school who has the same shoe sponsor as their AAU team, ai na?
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under armour
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On espn right now. Looks constipated.
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(http://i.imgur.com/M0O6vFu.jpg?2)
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(http://i.imgur.com/M0O6vFu.jpg?2)
Haven't spoken to him since 2006 in San Diego, and it was awkward because he knows I don't care for him. It was good to talk to Buckley and a few others then and again in 2008 in Anaheim and since.
I'd take a photoshop class in your free time.
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Facebook post from a friend of mine who is at the Final Four:
Tom Crean booed loudly when introduced as a member of Final Four Coaches Club.
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Facebook post from a friend of mine who is at the Final Four:
Not surprised. Purdue and Kentucky hate IU, plenty of IU fans don't care for him. Not surprised at all...Knight was booed loudly wherever he went to opposing gyms....I just flipped over to the Dodgers Angels game and Mike Trout was roundly booed in So. Cal....the game was as Dodger Stadium, people boo lots of people (oops.....WadesWorld is going to say I am comparing Crean's coaching resume to Knight now....or claim Crean is a baseball player like Trout). ::)
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Not surprised. Purdue and Kentucky hate IU, plenty of IU fans don't care for him. Not surprised at all...Knight was booed loudly wherever he went to opposing gyms....I just flipped over to the Dodgers Angels game and Mike Trout was roundly booed in So. Cal....the game was as Dodger Stadium, people boo lots of people (oops.....WadesWorld is going to say I am comparing Crean's coaching resume to Knight now....or claim Crean is a baseball player like Trout). ::)
Lots of people boo current opposing players but give credit to past achievements. Not for Crean.
Chicos, let's me say this slowly, Hoosiers don't like Crean, they think he is a crappy coach. They want him to go away but his buyout is too large.
Everyone else thinks worse of him.
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Lots of people boo current opposing players but give credit to past achievements. Not for Crean.
Chicos, let's me say this slowly, Hoosiers don't like Crean, they think he is a crappy coach. They want him to go away but his buyout is too large.
Everyone else thinks worse of him.
Everyone....I guess that doesn't include the AD and the administration.
Nice call on him getting fired a few weeks ago. Even better call on him not being able to recruit anymore...you are on a roll.
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