Update on prof McAdams

[brandx]

I used double secret probation somewhat in jest but ut us fair to say he has been warned in writing in the past.

I understood that - but we have another poster who is not quite able to see any colors except black and white.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are too much.

Bruce McGill...had a great time.  One of the best golf outings I've ever had.  Part of the Oscar De La Hoya charity event. We beat George Lopez, Sugar Ray Leonard and a few others.  A total blast.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just like you can't ignore his past antagonism of the university.

Antagonism isn't a grounds for firing at a university where one has tenure....just a reminder.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I used double secret probation somewhat in jest but ut us fair to say he has been warned in writing in the past.

Correct, but what was that warning for?  That's the key.  It was because they didn't like his views, etc....not anything to do with naming an student instructor. 

[brandx]

Correct, but what was that warning for?  That's the key.  It was because they didn't like his views, etc....not anything to do with naming an student instructor.

Give us the facts. You just made a definitive statement that it was because of his views. That gives us two options to ponder. Either you know some facts but refuse to say what they are - or you're lying.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Graduate students are students.

If they teach, they are still students who teach.

They are not professors.

Their status within the university is that of a graduate student first. Not an employee. In the same way that an undergrad who cleans rat sh!t out of the rat cages in the biology labs for beer money (I actually did this at MU) is a student first, not an employee.

There is a massive power difference between a graduate student who is teaching a class and a tenured professor harassing that student. McAdams and the harassment victim were not equals.

If you can't see this, I don't know what else to tell you.

Ahh, that's cute and all, but the courts will decide that.  Sure, they are students but they are ALSO employees.  Are they being paid to teach?  Thus, an employee contract? 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Ahh, that's cute and all, but the courts will decide that.  Sure, they are students but they are ALSO employees.  Are they being paid to teach?  Thus, an employee contract?

They're not being paid to teach though I don't think? What about undergrad TA's then. Are the employees too because they lead discussion?

[rocket surgeon]

" You guys are simply delusional if you think MU Leadership is a bunch of lefties and looks at things through that lens"

absolutely, except they don't think they are "lefties".  they think they are conventional wisdom, moderates that see things the way they should be and everyone else is either FAR right extremists or just plain ole liberal.  note the adjectives

  and you don't think MU leadership is left of center?

  http://marquettewire.org/3937753/tribune/tribune-news/marquette-community-stages-silent-demonstration-for-the-university-of-missouri-people-of-color/

talk about a CYA moment- holy schnikees!! i'm not criticizing them for their stance-this is america and some of us do believe in freedom of speech.  i'm just pointing this out.  in my humble opinion, he could be an adult here and point out that these kids need to grow up.  it's only going to be a few more years and we'll see where this kind of conduct will get them at, say, 3M, or wells fargo et.al.  but lovell is afraid he'll just make them angry and next thing ya know, they'll be axking for his rear end...sing along now...winter, spring, summer or fall, all you've got to do is call and i'll.... 

[ChicosBailBonds]

  and you don't think MU leadership is left of center?

  http://marquettewire.org/3937753/tribune/tribune-news/marquette-community-stages-silent-demonstration-for-the-university-of-missouri-people-of-color/

talk about a CYA moment- holy schnikees!! i'm not criticizing them for their stance-this is america and some of us do believe in freedom of speech.  i'm just pointing this out.  in my humble opinion, he could be an adult here and point out that these kids need to grow up.  it's only going to be a few more years and we'll see where this kind of conduct will get them at, say, 3M, or wells fargo et.al.  but lovell is afraid he'll just make them angry and next thing ya know, they'll be axking for his rear end...sing along now...winter, spring, summer or fall, all you've got to do is call and i'll....

Was anyone allowed to talk to them, or were they required to have safety space?

[rocket surgeon]

Was anyone allowed to talk to them, or were they required to have safety space?

are you kidding-did you see what they did to that girl down in georgia southern when she tweeted out against blacklivesmatter?

they walked out of class, wanted her expelled and called her tweet violence/threat against them.  free speech my butt cheeks

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/18/georgia-college-student-criticizes-mizzou-protesters-becomes-victim-of-witch-hunt/

[ChicosBailBonds]

are you kidding-did you see what they did to that girl down in georgia southern when she tweeted out against blacklivesmatter?

they walked out of class, wanted her expelled and called her tweet violence/threat against them.  free speech my butt cheeks

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/18/georgia-college-student-criticizes-mizzou-protesters-becomes-victim-of-witch-hunt/

By the way, that chick is hot....I'm just saying.  I heard she got fired.  This is a jacked up world.

[rocket surgeon]

By the way, that chick is hot....I'm just saying.  I heard she got fired.  This is a jacked up world.

i love it when they take charge like that- she could tuck my tail away-heyna way she wants

[GGGG]

  and you don't think MU leadership is left of center?

  http://marquettewire.org/3937753/tribune/tribune-news/marquette-community-stages-silent-demonstration-for-the-university-of-missouri-people-of-color/

talk about a CYA moment- holy schnikees!! i'm not criticizing them for their stance-this is america and some of us do believe in freedom of speech.  i'm just pointing this out.  in my humble opinion, he could be an adult here and point out that these kids need to grow up.  it's only going to be a few more years and we'll see where this kind of conduct will get them at, say, 3M, or wells fargo et.al.  but lovell is afraid he'll just make them angry and next thing ya know, they'll be axking for his rear end...sing along now...winter, spring, summer or fall, all you've got to do is call and i'll....

Why do they need to grow up?  They were engaging in a peaceful protest.  They weren't being violent or disruptive.

[Coleman]

I sincerely think MU wanted to avoid this situation at all costs. Various administrations at MU have endured McAdams for years, tolerating his constant antagonism of the university and setting them up to make him seem like a conservative victim, all the while plenty of conservatives have been tenured at MU with no issues whatsoever (there are plenty of conservative professors, I had them at MU). McAdams and Maguire have been the two biggest thorns in MU's side, interestingly enough from opposite sides of the spectrum. Both see themselves as Socratic gadflies standing up to the man. And both clearly have an inflated perception of themselves.

MU didn't want this fight. They didn't want to fire McAdams. Lovell knew McAdams would turn this into a circus, bring as much attention as he could to it, and turn himself into a martyr at all costs. They knew it would become politicized, alienate some groups of alumni, and potentially impact donations.

The only reason MU took McAdams' bait is because it had to. He crossed a line, and he did it knowingly. In chess, when you are put into check, you have to move out of check, even if it means collateral damage. McAdams put MU into check, and MU had to act, even if it meant a battle it did not want.  McAdams publicly harassed a student on a blog. MU was willing to endure a lot, but there was a line that McAdams crossed, and it had to respond.

The sad thing in all this is that it could have been avoided, if McAdams had addressed his concerns through proper channels and not publicly outed the student. But clearly, he didn't care about the the actual situation. It was a means to an end to bring attention to himself. He got what he wanted.

[jsglow]

I sincerely think MU wanted to avoid this situation at all costs. Various administrations at MU have endured McAdams for years, tolerating his constant antagonism of the university and setting them up to make him seem like a conservative victim, all the while plenty of conservatives have been tenured at MU with no issues whatsoever (there are plenty of conservative professors, I had them at MU). McAdams and Maguire have been the two biggest thorns in MU's side, interestingly enough from opposite sides of the spectrum. Both see themselves as Socratic gadflies standing up to the man. And both clearly have an inflated perception of themselves.

MU didn't want this fight. They didn't want to fire McAdams. Lovell knew McAdams would turn this into a circus, bring as much attention as he could to it, and turn himself into a martyr at all costs. They knew it would become politicized, alienate some groups of alumni, and potentially impact donations.

The only reason MU took McAdams' bait is because it had to. He crossed a line, and he did it knowingly. In chess, when you are put into check, you have to move out of check, even if it means collateral damage. McAdams put MU into check, and MU had to act, even if it meant a battle it did not want.  McAdams publicly harassed a student on a blog. MU was willing to endure a lot, but there was a line that McAdams crossed, and it had to respond.

The sad thing in all this is that it could have been avoided, if McAdams had addressed his concerns through proper channels and not publicly outed the student. But clearly, he didn't care about the the actual situation. It was a means to an end to bring attention to himself. He got what he wanted.

Well written and an accurate portrayal of the situation.

[Benny B]

This has nothing to do with indoctrination.

I mean I have repeatedly said that Abatte was wrong in how she handled the incident from the beginning.  I think many who believe McAdams erred believe the same way.  This isn't a political issue for me or for Marquette.

You work in academia, do you not, Sultan?  Have you ever seen someone call out the system and live to tell about it?  Of course not, because like the noble lemming, academicians may question each other, but they'll never question the group.

Of course this isn't "political issue" because none of the parties are actually campaigning for office (shout out to all the recent graduates of the Hillary School for Semantics)... but it is - at its core - a philosophical issue heavily involving political leanings and/or viewpoints.  To you, this is all about rules and procedure, and that can't be bad because after all, the system writes the rules and procedure to protect itself, right?

The only reason that any of this is an issue is because McAdams, the student and the TA chose to make it one.  All three injected their own political leanings into an otherwise innocuous exchange between "teacher," student and observer.  If either one - McAdams or the TA - had been open to discussing others' views and opinions, none of this happens.  But one chose the path of aggression, one chose silence and the other chose the path of attack, none chose the path of wisdom.

Is that how academia is supposed to work?  If you don't like what the other person says, you dismiss them?  What happened to creating a dialogue?  When did higher education become about injecting personal bias and opinion into fact and application?  Liberals and conservatives point the finger at each other, but each is as much to blame as the other.

It isn't about agreement or even tolerance, for that matter.  Let the politicians sling the mud.  Let the campaign managers sow the seeds of fear.  Let the money manipulate.  Let the voters capitulate to a political system that has no regard for them.  Academia is where issues need to be discussed, theories need to be challenged, and dialogue needs to be fostered, not silenced or attacked.  Every time the latter is opted for, it strictly serves to harden mindsets and encourage others to follow suit.

In other words, who gives a f*ck about the rules and procedures here... this is about ethics.  What is ethical about what anyone did here?  McAdams is now a martyr, the TA gets a free ride to Boulder, and the student has ideological street cred... what did the rest of us get?  A PR nightmare and a 28-page thread of political bitching back and forth.  To you, it's not political, but to those involved, it's nothing but.

But of course, if society demanded that our academicians always default to doing what is ethical, we'd have a severe shortage of professors in this country.  That is the result of a system that shows no regard for the betterment of the group, only the advancement of individuals.  And you're following in lockstep, whether you realize it or not (your response of "I'm not even sure how these questions are even relevant" gave you away).

It appears that we agree 100% on the fact that everyone involved here screwed up, yet why should I be the only one to ask "why?"  So ignore the bigger picture if you think it serves your own interests.  But know this: when you close your eyes and dig your head into the sands of "rules and procedure," you won't see the settling of the sand that will eventually asphyxiate you.

[rocket surgeon]

very well done benny!!  even though this wasn't put onto the political column, your comments give cred to the political threads that many are quick to dismiss.  yes, it gets a little contentious here, but hey, sometimes we have to see a few scrapes and bruises in order to get closer to an understanding of the issues

[Macallan 18]

In today's MU Tribune there is a story reporting that the decision regarding tenured political science professor John McAdam's status at Marquette University was recently sent to University President Michael Lovell.

Lovell didn't provide a timeline that he'll follow for making his decision.

http://marquettewire.org/3942182/tribune/tribune-news/mcadams-fate-at-marquette-rests-in-lovells-hands/

[Coleman]

In today's MU Tribune there is a story reporting that the decision regarding tenured political science professor John McAdam's status at Marquette University was recently sent to University President Michael Lovell.

Lovell didn't provide a timeline that he'll follow for making his decision.

http://marquettewire.org/3942182/tribune/tribune-news/mcadams-fate-at-marquette-rests-in-lovells-hands/

McAdams' quotes betray his entire motivation for this affair...publicity

"McAdams said on the Vicki McKenna Show on Newstalk 1310 WIBA. "If (the committee) say(s) Marquette can fire me, it will be easier for Marquette — although not terribly easy, because that would create a huge amount of bad publicity for Marquette and they have essentially been promised a lawsuit from my lawyers.""

He is salivating at the thought of getting fired.

I hope Lovell delivers. He doesn't deserve to work at Marquette.

[mu-rara]

McAdams' quotes betray his entire motivation for this affair...publicity

"McAdams said on the Vicki McKenna Show on Newstalk 1310 WIBA. "If (the committee) say(s) Marquette can fire me, it will be easier for Marquette — although not terribly easy, because that would create a huge amount of bad publicity for Marquette and they have essentially been promised a lawsuit from my lawyers.""

He is salivating at the thought of getting fired.

I hope Lovell delivers. He doesn't deserve to work at Marquette.

Yeah, who needs a diverse point of view.

[brandx]

Yeah, who needs a diverse point of view.

Are you implying there are no other conservative professors at MU?

I'm may be reading too much into your comment.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

In today's MU Tribune there is a story reporting that the decision regarding tenured political science professor John McAdam's status at Marquette University was recently sent to University President Michael Lovell.

Lovell didn't provide a timeline that he'll follow for making his decision.

http://marquettewire.org/3942182/tribune/tribune-news/mcadams-fate-at-marquette-rests-in-lovells-hands/

I'd expect a late afternoon Friday press release... just like the good ol' days under Buzz.

[rocket surgeon]

I guess it might have been getting a little hot in there AYYYN'a

http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/marquette-suspends-john-mcadams-through-the-fall-2016-semester-b99694030z1-373420291.html?ipad=y

Must admit he was wrong...what will Johnny do??

[Jay Bee]

FIGHT THE POWER, JOHN!!