Update on prof McAdams

[ChicosBailBonds]

I posted that I was annoyed with how many people were politicizing this and not taking it at what it simply is.  One guy commented that the TA never deserved to be at MU in the first place it's unreal it makes me disgusted

Maybe people feel you are naive to think it isn't political.  It reeks of it.  If one reads Holt's own words in the complaint, it is hard for me to come away with the idea it didn't play a role.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You know you're just making stuff up here, right?
Abbate was not a faculty member nor was she acting as one. Doesn't matter how many times you state it, it's just not true. She was acting as a graduate student assigned to teach a class.

Also, from the Marquette University employee handbook:

Violations of accepted policy and practice include, but are not limited to:

4. Behaving in an overtly discourteous, abusive or disrespectful manner toward a fellow employee, supervisor, student or any other member of the Marquette community.

Is she listed anywhere by MU as a member of the faculty listing?  Including TA list of faculty?  If so, then I think your argument that she is not an acting member of the faculty as an instructor is out the door.

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1000. Dude was a cancer.  I'd love to see somebody dig up everything anti-MU he has posted. When you're a corporation, if one of your own is continually biting the hand that feeds it, they shouldn't be surprised when the corporation gets rid of them.  He destroyed a students life...was she wrong, IMO absolutely. But there's a way to handle things professionally and appropriately.

Destroyed her life?  Did he kill her?

hyperbole. 

Comparing to a corporation where tenure doesn't exist or the "safety" to say such things?  Poor comparison.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Nm, peace scoop.

[Galway Eagle]

Maybe people feel you are naive to think it isn't political.  It reeks of it.  If one reads Holt's own words in the complaint, it is hard for me to come away with the idea it didn't play a role.

Well call me naive if you'd like, it's no secret I think you're a pompous a$$.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

After reading this thread and Facebook posts from people at MU I'm absolutely done with this school. Forget it, I'm done with this board and can't wait until I get out of this hell hole in 3 months. Should have gone to Illinois or Northwestern.

How can you plausibly be that upset over a relatively mild manner discussion of a campus issue?

[MUfan12]

After reading this thread and Facebook posts from people at MU I'm absolutely done with this school. Forget it, I'm done with this board and can't wait until I get out of this hell hole in 3 months. Should have gone to Illinois or Northwestern.

Fun.

[MUsoxfan]

After reading this thread and Facebook posts from people at MU I'm absolutely done with this school. Forget it, I'm done with this board and can't wait until I get out of this hell hole in 3 months. Should have gone to Illinois or Northwestern.

So I assume that you'll leave MU off your resume, since you're so ashamed and all. You probably won't even accept that diploma if they begged you to take it either. Those are principles I can get on board with

[MUsoxfan]

On a side note, I just Google imaged McAdams. Haven't seen him since I took one of his classes about 15 years ago

He's the doppelgänger of Tiny Tim. Love it

[forgetful]

Is she listed anywhere by MU as a member of the faculty listing?  Including TA list of faculty?  If so, then I think your argument that she is not an acting member of the faculty as an instructor is out the door.

TA's are not faculty according to MU or any other University.  They are TAs, they do not get faculty benefits nor are they eligible as faculty for committees or the faculty senate. 

TAs are instructors, often times acting as an instructor for course credit.  I'm not sure about this case or at MU, but at most Universities they are not even allowed to officially enter grades, but only do so under the direction of an advisor. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nm, peace scoop.

Bye bye.  Maybe you should read up on Illinois and Northwestern and what some of their "alumni" write on Facebook.  LOL.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well call me naive if you'd like, it's no secret I think you're a pompous a$$.

Awwww.....so tolerant of you....again.   LOL.  It's why I love you the mostest.

[keefe]

The problem with this is that academia isn't the Air Force, nor should it aspire to be.  They are different organizations with different goals and objectives.

I wasn't actually comparing the two worlds...it was in response to a statement about negative motivation. The USAF washes out more than 60% of every UPT class...it is a classic Darwinian model that ensures selective breeding for a bloody difficult job. Getting your wings is only the beginning of a long education in a world where the stakes are high and the margin for error is non-existent. 

[mikekinsellaMVP]

I wasn't actually comparing the two worlds...it was in response to a statement about negative motivation. The USAF washes out more than 60% of every UPT class...it is a classic Darwinian model that ensures selective breeding for a bloody difficult job. Getting your wings is only the beginning of a long education in a world where the stakes are high and the margin for error is non-existent. 

While I think you and Chicos make valid points about negative motivation (I actually recall a similar situation in a freshman engineering seminar), you're not considering scale or duration.  I think being disciplined in front of a few dozen members of your squadron doesn't have quite the same audience or longevity as Fox News broadcasting that you hate freedom to their entire viewership.  You can argue that McAdams isn't responsible for the story getting picked up, but I'd argue he's not blogging just to make his mom proud.  A political science professor who is ignorant of how the cable news cycle works is not a good political science professor.  While McAdams may be an unprofessional employee, he is a good poly sci professor, so to say he didn't have an inclination as to how this would turn out is a load.

I still don't agree with you that this is the litmus test for handling pressure in academia.  Is she a doctoral candidate or a presidential candidate?

[Blackhat]

I'll say one more thing. To see people on Facebook saying the same things about the TA that McAdams did is truly upsetting. I have never been more upset aND disgusted at the Marquette community for attacking this TA and making this a political issue which is not. It seriously makes me want to pack my bags and leave MU. Absolutely disgusting haven't hated the Marquette community this much since I almost transferred back in my freshman year. Signing off.

This seems reasonable and well thought out.

 Might want to take a breather and rethink your reasoning tomorrow.

[rocket surgeon]

People stop me and ask-what's happening with your Marquette....now?  I tell them, it's not my Marquette anymore,  it's not the school I went to.  Or the school my father went to or his father...ya see, when we all went, it was the WARRIORS!  Today, if they were looking for a new name to replace "golden eagles" because the sierra club deemed it offensive, they would probably have "pink" or "red" as the front runners.  Pretty sad when we're in competition with Bucky for the name "Moscow on the lake"

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nm, peace scoop.

[ChicosBailBonds]

While I think you and Chicos make valid points about negative motivation (I actually recall a similar situation in a freshman engineering seminar), you're not considering scale or duration.  I think being disciplined in front of a few dozen members of your squadron doesn't have quite the same audience or longevity as Fox News broadcasting that you hate freedom to their entire viewership.  You can argue that McAdams isn't responsible for the story getting picked up, but I'd argue he's not blogging just to make his mom proud.  A political science professor who is ignorant of how the cable news cycle works is not a good political science professor.  While McAdams may be an unprofessional employee, he is a good poly sci professor, so to say he didn't have an inclination as to how this would turn out is a load.

I still don't agree with you that this is the litmus test for handling pressure in academia.  Is she a doctoral candidate or a presidential candidate?

Do you think all professors should avoid ever blogging on their own time in the event it is picked up by someone, other than mom?  Are you really suggesting that you thought McAdams did this knowing news cycles and that someone would care so deeply in the media that it would be picked up?  I'm curious, how many of McAdams blog posts over the last 10 years have hit the news cycle? 

[GGGG]

While I think you and Chicos make valid points about negative motivation (I actually recall a similar situation in a freshman engineering seminar), you're not considering scale or duration. 

I would also argue that receiving negative motivation in a setting where such tactics are to be expected is fine.  These types of tactics are not to be expected in the faculty / student relationship.

[GGGG]

Is she listed anywhere by MU as a member of the faculty listing?  Including TA list of faculty?  If so, then I think your argument that she is not an acting member of the faculty as an instructor is out the door.

She is NOT a faculty member.  Just because she ACTS like a faculty member in that she teaches a class, doesn't MAKE her one.

[GGGG]

I agree with you: MU would have been well within its rights to publicly reprimand McAdams.  But trying to say you support academic freedom while firing a professor for advocating for the open discussion of issues of legitimate public debate is beyond hypocritical.

No, no, no...you misunderstand.

I think Abatte was wrong in how she handled the classroom situation.  I think McAdams is right in that she handled it wrong. 

The method upon which McAdams used to draw attention to the issue is where I have a problem.  Calling out a student on a public blog was never the right way to do this.

[GGGG]

Professors should be graded out on their effectiveness in the classroom yearly based on scores similar to all "lower level" teachers.  'Are they effective?' is never asked after tenure.  No accountability leads to sloppiness and turning the soul of their job to assistants.

Tenure isn't about classroom evaluation, nor should it be.

[Galway Eagle]

Awwww.....so tolerant of you....again.   LOL.  It's why I love you the mostest.

Wait so you wanted me to be tolerant of you insulting me? Hmm interesting way of thinking there Chicos

[Blue Horseshoe]

The method upon which McAdams used to draw attention to the issue is where I have a problem.  Calling out a student on a public blog was never the right way to do this.

Marquette is attempting to use that argument, except that it contradicts itself. As laid out in McAdams blog,

Holz continues:
You have been asked, advised, and warned on multiple prior occasions not to publicize students’ names in connection with your blog posts.
This is simply untrue. Only once did any university official (Provost John Pauly) tell us not to make any blog posts about students. (Actually, he said it was fine to commend students, but we should not criticize student activities – essentially demanding biased journalism.)

We blogged about this, and made it clear to Pauly that he had no right to tell us what to blog about. This was in 2011, and we continued to blog about student activities. Pauly let us alone, which we interpreted as meaning that he knew he had no authority to censor our blog.

Holz cited another case, but mangled the details:
In March 2008, you published the name of a student who worked in advertising for the Marquette Tribune after she had declined to run an advertisement highlighting alleged risks from the “morning after” pill. Only after that student contacted you to advise of the impacts upon her and to request you to cease and desist did you delete her name.
In fact, if we recall correctly, it was a faculty member who contacted us, soon after the post went up (nobody in the Communications School or at the Tribune responded to our earlier inquiries). She convinced us that the student in question was not in fact responsible for the failure of the Tribune to run the ad (contrary to what we had been told by Wisconsin Right to Life), and we were happy to delete the student’s name.

But the issue was not “mentioning students’ names,” it was the actions of this particular student.  Nobody told us we could “not mention student names” in this case.

Interestingly, this past fall, Holz explicitly told us that one of our posts that mentioned two students’ names was not an issue. We had been summoned to his office on the basis of a student complaint which he would not explain. (It turned out that the president of the Palestinian Student Association claimed to feel “intimidated” when we tried to interview him about “Israeli Apartheid Week” which his organization, and three offices at Marquette, sponsored.)

We asked Holz whether the meeting was about a post we had made regarding a meeting between Marquette officials and a student group who wanted to boycott Palermo’s Pizza. We sent him the link to the post. He replied that it was “not the issue.”

So a post where we named two student activists was not an “issue.” But then all of a sudden a post naming a student instructor becomes the issue when Marquette wants to get rid of a professor who causes controversy.

[GGGG]

Well let me just say that I am not going to necessarily take McAdams at his word here.  He has motivation to stretch the truth.