Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[Lighthouse 84]

I agree with your analysis on JJJ and Perspective on Wojo. He is the one making the rookie mistakes.

Says the guy with obvious ties to JjJ. You never did, and probably never will, say what those ties are. Are you afraid to say you're a family member or former coach who has a bias in favor of JjJ and against anything WoJo does that might not be 100% in favor of JjJ doing whatever he wanted?  

Ners's analysis has more made up in it than Brian Williams stories. Nothing based on facts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nvm

[naginiF]

I agree with your analysis on JJJ and Perspective on Wojo. He is the one making the rookie mistakes.

And.........right on cue.  

[reinko]

I agree with your analysis on JJJ and Perspective on Wojo. He is the one making the rookie mistakes.

=

[brewcity77]

SMH that this thread is still going on.

It's simple. Just like Sandy worked hard, practiced well, and bought in and consequently earned minutes, Jajuan is doing the same. Yes, Carlino's injury opened the door a little wider, but as TAMU noted this is the first string of well played back to back games against good competition in Jajuan's career. And if he keeps practicing and playing well, he'll continue to earn minutes.

Wojo has been a model of consistency this year. Guys that do what he wants play the most minutes and have the longest leash. Guys that make boneheaded mistakes and don't play within the system have a shorter leash and need to earn it. Sandy earned it. JJJ is earning it. This doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out, just two eyes and an iota of common sense.

[GGGG]

unfortunately i've been lurking long enough to understand the angle they (adding TW and probably WojosMojo) are taking towards the program.  i profess to being under the influence of just having enough of the idiotic logic to simultaneously  try to position the detractors into actually stating an arguement that isn't based on ignoring facts/rational perspective and putting the kids to bed.  i probably just opened myself up to some nuance of my phrasing that their narrative can pick apart or the post will be ignored.

i do appreciate the response as a confirmation of my sanity.  AND i rocked at getting the kids fed, bathed and tucked in.....lots of similarities between their logic and what i read here.

See, I don't have a problem if people would just say the following:  "I think JJJ should play more.  He has a great deal of potential and think that he is going to be important to this team not only for the rest of this year, but for the next two years as well."  Now people might not agree with this, and that's OK.  That's what this board is about. 

I have a problem with the tortured logic and the whacked out "mind game" theories about why the coach isn't playing JJJ more.  It was the same thing last year with the entire "stick it to the administration" bullsh*t.  Cmon...Buzz and Wojo disagree with you.  No more.  No less.



Why do some people want to take the path on the right instead of the pretty much straight-forward path on the left?

[Texas Western]

See, I don't have a problem if people would just say the following:  "I think JJJ should play more.  He has a great deal of potential and think that he is going to be important to this team not only for the rest of this year, but for the next two years as well."  Now people might not agree with this, and that's OK.  That's what this board is about. 

I have a problem with the tortured logic and the whacked out "mind game" theories about why the coach isn't playing JJJ more.  It was the same thing last year with the entire "stick it to the administration" bullsh*t.  Cmon...Buzz and Wojo disagree with you.  No more.  No less.



Why do some people want to take the path on the right instead of the pretty much straight-forward path on the left?

From my perspective I believe the Coaches have taken tortuous path you outlined above and have tried to sell it to the public as the straight path. That is my basic issue about this administration. I think they say one thing and do another. The onus is on them just as much as the player.

I believe JJJ does not only have potential, but he has proven on many occasions that he is a strong and effective driver of the ball excellent in transiton looks for open men on the run etc. A player of his caliber is key to our success this year and the next two years. We just earned a road victory against an athletic team that has been in the top 25 part of the year. JJJ got the minutes and he delivered. At the end of the day we want the team to win and to do that we need the best players on the team in the game. That to me is the straightforward A to B logic you outlined. Best Players =Best Chance for MU to Win Games.

[GGGG]

From my perspective I believe the Coaches have taken tortuous path you outlined above and have tried to sell it to the public as the straight path. That is my basic issue about this administration. I think they say one thing and do another. The onus is on them just as much as the player.

What exactly has Wojo done that is hypocritical?  What is he saying but not doing?

[Lighthouse 84]

From my perspective I believe the Coaches have taken tortuous path you outlined above and have tried to sell it to the public as the straight path.

If you have a perspective that isn't from the viewpoint of the rest of us (the public), why don't you tell us what you base your perspective on?  Unless you have some inside tie to JjJ, John Dawson or other player, all of your words are mere conjecture.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's simple. Just like Sandy worked hard, practiced well, and bought in and consequently earned minutes, Jajuan is doing the same. Yes, Carlino's injury opened the door a little wider, but as TAMU noted this is the first string of well played back to back games against good competition in Jajuan's career. And if he keeps practicing and playing well, he'll continue to earn minutes.

Pshhhawwwww!  Everyone knows that is isn't about practicing well, playing within the team, or improving your defense--none of that is important.  What is important is crossing the 25 mpg mark, then you obviously play well...but then you have to watch out for the evil coach who tries to steal your glory.  It's simply Lojik 101 my friend.

[mu03eng]

What exactly has Wojo done that is hypocritical?  What is he saying but not doing?

This is what I want to know, what what I see and hear, Wojo is the most straight forward coach since Hank.  What do other people see that says otherwise, I really want to know.  And I don't mean conspiracy theory type of stuff like player A is clearly being toyed with.....I mean where he says something out loud and does something different in real life.

[brewcity77]

*** Response to Texas Western ***

Except that's pure conjecture that goes against everything the staff has been saying. Wojo cited practice as the reason Johnson didn't play and his own mistake as the reason Cohen didn't play at DePaul. Since then we've seen Cohen's improved play, defense, and corresponding minutes. Since Jajuan's benching, we've seen him be more selective with shots, playing better (still not exemplary but better) defense, and heard the coach cite his practice and work ethic as the reason.

Either the painfully obvious path is the reason, or the coach is a pathological liar. While one could believe that, there is no evidence of that. The evidence we have is both Sandy and Jajuan earning minutes with hard work and consistent play. The evidence we have is Luke doing the same as he went from bench player to starter. The evidence we have is the experienced players catching on earlier (Juan, Matt, Derrick, Steve) and seeing minutes earlier. The evidence we have is those experienced players (especially Steve, but also Juan) getting less minutes when they make mistakes or don't perform.

We have a mountain of evidence showing how this staff operates along with the words of the head coach that backs that up. Then we have a minority of posters that say that evidence is wrong and it's all mind games, but they can't prove it, we just have to take their word for it.

Over the past 6 years, we did see a lot of mind games. Buzz always said if a player didn't have a chip on his shoulder, he'd put one there. For some guys, that worked really well. For last year's team, it didn't. Buzz's typical chip strategy (seen by many as mind games) wasn't as effective with Derrick, Jamil, Juan, Davante, and Todd. Derrick was too disciplined, Jamil and Juan were too laid back, and Davante and Todd were too ambivalent. It wasn't a good personality mix for Buzz's mental strategy. So yes, that led to "mind games" and probably created this fear of conspiracies from the coaching staff that we see carried over and projected to Wojo. But remember, those same "mind games" worked great with Jimmy, Jae, and Vander, among others.

I don't see any mind games here. I don't see any conspiracy. There is no evidence of that. I guess I can't stop anyone from believing it. There will always be people for whom the blatant evidence and simplest path isn't enough. Just realize that you are espousing these beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence that contradicts your claims with no evidence of your own. That's why you meet resistance.

[MerrittsMustache]

"JJJ's six good games" is the new "Dawson's game against G'town."

[MU82]

From my perspective I believe the Coaches have taken tortuous path you outlined above and have tried to sell it to the public as the straight path. That is my basic issue about this administration. I think they say one thing and do another. The onus is on them just as much as the player.

I believe JJJ does not only have potential, but he has proven on many occasions that he is a strong and effective driver of the ball excellent in transiton looks for open men on the run etc. A player of his caliber is key to our success this year and the next two years. We just earned a road victory against an athletic team that has been in the top 25 part of the year. JJJ got the minutes and he delivered. At the end of the day we want the team to win and to do that we need the best players on the team in the game. That to me is the straightforward A to B logic you outlined. Best Players =Best Chance for MU to Win Games.

I'm just curious about your take on what would motivate Wojo to treat JJJ unjustly? What would Wojo have to gain from being deceitful and cruel to JJJ?

I have learned throughout life to be open to all possibilities about pretty much everything, but I usually insist upon some logic when evaluating multiple scenarios. Unless you can enlighten me, I am having trouble coming to grips with why Wojo would want to dump all over JJJ.

[mu-rara]

So JJJ must have had some great attitude and practices leading up to the 6 other games prior to his benching where he played 25+ minutes to perform just as he did against Seton Hall, right?

Look, I'm sure Wojo wants the glory and spotlight for JJJ's nice performance Saturday.  As if the "message" he sent by benching JJJ against Xavier somehow served a miraculous purpose and was the catalyst for Saturday's performance against Seton Hall.  Essentially Wojo is trying to say that due to his attitude and practice leading up to Seton Hall - this moment was building.  I'd go along with that premise, if of course there weren't 6 other games prior to his benching that didn't bear out he'll put up similar numbers to the Seton Hall performance if he gets ample time of 25+.

A critical fan might wonder why Wojo was limiting JJJ's playing time SO much during our 6 game losing streak, considering his overall production when given good minutes on the season prior to the benching.  Limiting JJJ as much as he has since early January has been just one of several poor coaching/personnel decisions Wojo has made this year.  But, he's a rookie, and he'll hopefully get better.

Plain and Simple Ners.  You were never a high level HS basketball player.  This post indicates that, at best, you were an end of the bench whiner and cancer on the team.  You may have been cut by your freshman coach, reflecting your bitterness to all coaches.  See, I can speculate about crap too.

[mu03eng]

"JJJ's six good games" is the new "Dawson's game against G'town."

Meme watch list

[brewcity77]

So...if Jajuan ends up sticking around and becomes a good or even great player for Marquette, will it all be in spite of Wojo, or because of Wojo? If he plays 20-30 mpg the rest of the year with improved production and effort, will it be in spite of Wojo or because of Wojo?

Personally, I know when a boss has challenged me to improve and I did so, I'm happy to attribute part of that to the boss. Something tells me if Jajuan improves and earns minutes, some here we'll be incapable of doing the same.

[mu03eng]

So...if Jajuan ends up sticking around and becomes a good or even great player for Marquette, will it all be in spite of Wojo, or because of Wojo? If he plays 20-30 mpg the rest of the year with improved production and effort, will it be in spite of Wojo or because of Wojo?

Personally, I know when a boss has challenged me to improve and I did so, I'm happy to attribute part of that to the boss. Something tells me if Jajuan improves and earns minutes, some here we'll be incapable of doing the same.

It's the tiger rock


Person 1 in US office:  I have a tiger rock I'll sell you, prevents tigers from attacking you.
Person 2 in US office:  That's amazing, how'd you get the rock?
Person 1:  I found it, pretty cool huh?
Person 2:  Yeah it is, I'm interested in buying it, how do I know it works?
Person 1:  How do you know it works????  I've never been attacked by a tiger!  Of course it works!

[connie]

unfortunately i've been lurking long enough to understand the angle they (adding TW and probably WojosMojo) are taking towards the program.  i profess to being under the influence of just having enough of the idiotic logic to simultaneously  try to position the detractors into actually stating an arguement that isn't based on ignoring facts/rational perspective and putting the kids to bed.  i probably just opened myself up to some nuance of my phrasing that their narrative can pick apart or the post will be ignored.

i do appreciate the response as a confirmation of my sanity.  AND i rocked at getting the kids fed, bathed and tucked in.....lots of similarities between their logic and what i read here.

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure.  

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided.  

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

[mu03eng]

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure.  

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided.  

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure.  

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided.  

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

[GGGG]

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure. 

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided. 

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

My God....this is perfect.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure.  

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided.  

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

[MU82]

Probably best to go back to the kids.  Any expectations you have of a logical or reasoned discussion on this (or any of the other corrupted threads) are doomed to failure.  

I understand how you get sucked in.  You see a point that you think you address with a reasoned example that might cause the poster to consider an alternate world view.  The poster comes back with a different example that sounds unlikely but might be possible, but doesn't really address the point you make.  The poster then provides some cherry picked stats to support a different but related  opinion while acting as if the causal link between the stat and his opinion incontrovertible. After you go back and forth a bit the examples that you are given become more and more outrageous.  Then you start to notice that the alleged motivations assigned to all of the identified failures of "subject x" and his nefarious deeds begin to conflict not just with the reality of "subject x's" past actions and statements, but with other examples the poster has provided.  

At this point you start to realize that you might as well be talking to someone that believes that the world is really governed by the Illuminati or the Trilateral Commission.  They put people like the 9/11 Truthers to shame in their slavish devotion to the fantasy that they are the ones "in the know" and that the rest of us are mindless lemmings whose every act and question are all a part of some grand form of world domination, like you are stuck in some pod hooked up to the Matrix and only they have swallowed the red pill.  You finally begin to realize that there is simply nothing that you are going to be able to do to break through the self worth the poster derives from their self-absorbed obsession, fueled by their continued demonstration that only they have the ability to see behind the curtain.  The sense of superiority over you they gain from living this fantasy cannot be dispelled.  Occasionally they will either go too far or their intransigence will start to turn people off, so they concede a few issues to try to reestablish their "reasonability."  That draws others back in, and starts the cycle all over again.

In the end, if you really need to visit an alternate universe, read your kids some Dr. Suess.  It will make about as much sense.

Great stuff, connie.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for TW and/or Ners to explain -- with facts, not conjecture -- what possible motivation Wojo would have to dump on JJJ. I've asked multiple times but no response. Perhaps they're too busy playing on the Holodeck.

[willie warrior]

See, I don't have a problem if people would just say the following:  "I think JJJ should play more.  He has a great deal of potential and think that he is going to be important to this team not only for the rest of this year, but for the next two years as well."  Now people might not agree with this, and that's OK.  That's what this board is about. 

I have a problem with the tortured logic and the whacked out "mind game" theories about why the coach isn't playing JJJ more.  It was the same thing last year with the entire "stick it to the administration" bullsh*t.  Cmon...Buzz and Wojo disagree with you.  No more.  No less.



Why do some people want to take the path on the right instead of the pretty much straight-forward path on the left?

Sultan--what is wrong with you? Diagram b. is the correct route when you are dodging machine gun fire!