Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[MerrittsMustache]

JJJ more often than not gets yanked for his brutal D.....when that is coupled with poor decisions on the offensive end---it's an easy call for Wojo.

Twice in the second half, JJJ gambled for a steal, didn't get it and Butler immediately scored on a lay-up as a result. In a nip-tuck game with little margin for error, those things can't happen.

[LON]

Nobody here has to "defer to me."  Guys on the other side of the issue make their points, are convicted in their convictions, and don't back down from them either.  They feel they are right.  I feel I'm right on the matter with regard to my opinions.

Some here want to defer to the "I have to believe the opinions of guys who are paid millions of dollars to make better decisions or know better than you."  Sure - that is a very valid point.  However, because you are paid millions of dollars to make decisions does NOT absolve one of making bad decisions.

We just saw it in the Super Bowl.  Saw it in Green Bay's game against Seattle.  At the end of the day the quality of a coach, and their decisions - is measured in the team's won/loss record.  Buzz turned in a crap performance last season.  And so far, quite frankly, Wojo isn't doing all that well contrary to what the "slurpers" here want to believe.

While the good soldier mentality is admirable many times in life, and supporting your leader is noble it doesn't mean their leadership can't be called into question - particularly when the "organization" isn't ultimately performing well under their leadership.

As for respecting someone who has played the game - yes - I'll always respect their opinion more than guys who didn't.  And, obviously there are guys here who disagree with me that have at least played the game at the high school level.  And yes, I believe guys who have played the game more, and at a higher level than me, ultimately know more about the game as a whole than do I.  However, that doesn't mean that I HAVE to agree with their conclusions about a player's merits.  Disagreements prevail among "experts" as to a player's talent/potential frequently in sports at the highest levels among highly paid professionals.

And as for Dickie Simpkins - If you are so incredibly naive as to not realize the MU PR Machine went to work on Dickie  -I don't know what to tell you.  The guy called about 25 MU games and never once had much of anything to say about Derrick.  Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

Seriously?  I mean, seriously?  MU athletics department is in Simpkins' ear?  That's what you're going with?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And as for Dickie Simpkins - If you are so incredibly naive as to not realize the MU PR Machine went to work on Dickie  -I don't know what to tell you.  The guy called about 25 MU games and never once had much of anything to say about Derrick.  Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Now you are officially in my area of expertise. If you think college PR departments give a rat's arse about which players the announcers are complimenting, much less having any sort of sway over announcers, you are out of your mind. I mean wow.

Dickie loves Derrick because he sees him as "the heart and soul of our team." Derrick wasn't that last season. This season, he is. It wasn't out of the blue. It was a new season. Dickie saw what Derrick does for the team and likes it.

If you hear hoofprints, don't look for zebras. The simplest solution is usually the correct one.

[GooooMarquette]

And as for Dickie Simpkins - If you are so incredibly naive as to not realize the MU PR Machine went to work on Dickie  -I don't know what to tell you.  The guy called about 25 MU games and never once had much of anything to say about Derrick.  Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

Did you play PR in high school too?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And as for Dickie Simpkins - If you are so incredibly naive as to not realize the MU PR Machine went to work on Dickie  -I don't know what to tell you.  The guy called about 25 MU games and never once had much of anything to say about Derrick.  Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

I have a PR degree.

I've work professionally in the sports marketing and PR industry for over 15 years.

What you are saying is not possible, and that's not how things work. PR teams don't talk to basketball commentators and instruct them on what they should be saying... ESPECIALLY at the college level for a regular season game(s).

[JakeBarnes]

I have a PR degree.

I've work professionally in the sports marketing and PR industry for over 15 years.

What you are saying is not possible, and that's not how things work. PR teams don't talk to basketball commentators and instruct them on what they should be saying... ESPECIALLY at the college level for a regular season game(s).

I think the mods need to rename Ners "Frozen" because he needs to:

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

JJJ is a hot topic of debate here.  If I said there is a player on the roster who would give us this production if they were given 25+ minutes per game per night - would anybody in their right mind say he doesn't deserve 25+?

6 games of 25+ minutes against 4 of our Top 6 wins for the year:  TN Martin, OSU (loss), NJIT, ASU, North Dakota, Providence.

Averages:

29.3 minutes per game.  13.6ppg.  4.3 rebounds per game.  2.5 assists per game. 3.0 steals per game  2.6 turnovers per game.

Like most talented players, it helps when you get long stretches of run/playing time.  The above alone are all that needs to be said for what can be done to improve this team.  Does it mean every game JJJ plays 25+ he'll post the above stats?  Of course not.  But - 6 games isn't a meaningless sample size.  He's a sophomore.  Let's get him more experience.  Perhaps along the way we start to win some of these games.  Furthermore, it likely helps JJJ feel positive about his future at MU and under Wojo/hopefully eliminates any thoughts of transferring.

Minutes are earned, not given. .

If JJJ wants to play 30mpg, then come early, stay late, watch extra film, get extra coaching, work on his weaknesses, and THEN take advantage of his opportunities and produce.

He'll get as many minutes as he can handle.

EXAMPLE: SANDY COHEN.

You often make simple concepts very complex.

[brewcity77]

I have a PR degree.

I've work professionally in the sports marketing and PR industry for over 15 years.

What you are saying is not possible, and that's not how things work. PR teams don't talk to basketball commentators and instruct them on what they should be saying... ESPECIALLY at the college level for a regular season game(s).

But did you play high school basketball?

[4everwarriors]

Do we have to bring Puerto Rico into this chit?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

PR degree    Is that related to Latino Studies?

[NersEllenson]

Actually he's not. 99% of Marquette fans believe he's inconsistent at best, and terrible at basketball at worst.

If JjJ transfers because he's not happy with the playing time he's earning, he only need look in a mirror for the source of the problem. I will wish him luck, thank him for his service, and never think about him again. Fortunately, I don't believe JjJ is like that. I think he is a hard working kid who will work ass off during the offseason to get better. Hopefully, he can have a Vander-like improvement between his Sophomore and Junior campaigns. I know Wojo is having him fix that awful shooting form he has. That is a process that takes time.

You are the only person I know who thinks more minutes leads to better production. It is basketball 101 that a player's effectiveness drops the longer he plays in a single game. The reason JjJ's stats are better when he gets 25+ minutes? It's because he earned them in those games! He was playing well so he got more minutes. Production leads to more minutes, not the other way around.

Do you not find it odd that JJJ's numbers are SIGNIFICANTLY better when he plays 25+ minutes?

Being on the court - no player is more evidence of this than your Derrick Wilson - is by default alone going to lead to you getting some hollow stats in the way of rebounds and assists.  Period.  The more you are on the floor, the more you produce.

But yes, a player with a high usage rating, that also plays big minutes - generally their O-Rating (which is a reason why I don't care for an O-Rating as a stat) will come down as they are also putting themselves in the most positions to "fail."  You are measuring effectiveness solely by O-Rating to make the statement that a player's "effectiveness" drops the more minutes he plays.  If this were the case then coaches should bench their star players as if they get too many minutes, their "effectiveness" would drop.  LOL

Jake Thomas had a better O-Rating than Todd Mayo last year.  Jake had a better O-Rating than Duane this year.  Do you, or any of the others in your "circle of friends" think Jake Thomas is a better player than either Todd Mayo or Duane Wilson??

But of course the rub, as is always the case with guys like Derrick and Jake - They don't force action, rarely create anything for themselves or others - and this is why Pomeroy classifies them as either "Nearly Invisible," or "Limited Roles."  (Yet they both were/are very visible and have MAJOR roles - in that they both play the most minutes on the team.)
  

[g0lden3agle]

Do you not find it odd that JJJ's numbers are SIGNIFICANTLY better when he plays 25+ minutes?

No.  Because as Wojo has demonstrated with Sandy Cohen, with better performance comes more minutes.  Not the other way around.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do you not find it odd that JJJ's numbers are SIGNIFICANTLY better when he plays 25+ minutes?

Being on the court - no player is more evidence of this than your Derrick Wilson - is by default alone going to lead to you getting some hollow stats in the way of rebounds and assists.  Period.  The more you are on the floor, the more you produce.

But yes, a player with a high usage rating, that also plays big minutes - generally their O-Rating (which is a reason why I don't care for an O-Rating as a stat) will come down as they are also putting themselves in the most positions to "fail."  You are measuring effectiveness solely by O-Rating to make the statement that a player's "effectiveness" drops the more minutes he plays.  If this were the case then coaches should bench their star players as if they get too many minutes, their "effectiveness" would drop.  LOL

Jake Thomas had a better O-Rating than Todd Mayo last year.  Jake had a better O-Rating than Duane this year.  Do you, or any of the others in your "circle of friends" think Jake Thomas is a better player than either Todd Mayo or Duane Wilson??

But of course the rub, as is always the case with guys like Derrick and Jake - They don't force action, rarely create anything for themselves or others - and this is why Pomeroy classifies them as either "Nearly Invisible," or "Limited Roles."  (Yet they both were/are very visible and have MAJOR roles - in that they both play the most minutes on the team.)
 

I really don't find it odd at all. Because Wojo plays whoever is performing the best. He got his minutes because his production was good. You are the only one who has it backward.

And no, I wasn't just using O-rating. Per 40 stats also drop when you give a player more minutes. The more minutes a player has, the less effective they are. That is basketball 101. You have it backwards.

[NersEllenson]

I really don't find it odd at all. Because Wojo plays whoever is performing the best. He got his minutes because his production was good. You are the only one who has it backward.

And no, I wasn't just using O-rating. Per 40 stats also drop when you give a player more minutes. The more minutes a player has, the less effective they are. That is basketball 101. You have it backwards.

You totally have it wrong and backwards.  You play talented guys max minutes...period...and live with their growing pains.  Particularly when your VET gives you next to nothing.

I love how you and the others who champion Derrick completely disregard stats offered on JJJ's 6 games of getting more than 25 minutes, and just piss all over them.  While you can't find anything even close to Derrick Wilson putting up these kind of numbers in any type of scenario at any point EVER in his career at MU.  Why?? Because he isn't freaking capable.  At least JJJ has shown you he IS capable of such production.  And he's only a sophomore.  Take the shackles off Wojo. 
And as I've said, just because a guy comes in and perhaps misses his first two shots and might have a turnover - it doesn't mean he is going to be bad for a whole game.  So, for JJJ - he goes into a game tight - knowing that basically if I don't make my first shot or two, have a turnover - I'm getting yanked.  It leads to tight performance.

And BTW - Please stop with the dumb ass argument about Florida and them having 7, Top 100 players - they are 34 in Pomeory's rankings.  Us?  104 - just 70 spots worse.  Just like Brew offered up Xavier, Michigan State, Ohio State, Georgetown and other teams having similar Top 100 talent - they are performing in the Top 30 teams - us? 

[BM1090]

Do you not find it odd that JJJ's numbers are SIGNIFICANTLY better when he plays 25+ minutes?

Being on the court - no player is more evidence of this than your Derrick Wilson - is by default alone going to lead to you getting some hollow stats in the way of rebounds and assists.  Period.  The more you are on the floor, the more you produce.

But yes, a player with a high usage rating, that also plays big minutes - generally their O-Rating (which is a reason why I don't care for an O-Rating as a stat) will come down as they are also putting themselves in the most positions to "fail."  You are measuring effectiveness solely by O-Rating to make the statement that a player's "effectiveness" drops the more minutes he plays.  If this were the case then coaches should bench their star players as if they get too many minutes, their "effectiveness" would drop.  LOL

Jake Thomas had a better O-Rating than Todd Mayo last year.  Jake had a better O-Rating than Duane this year.  Do you, or any of the others in your "circle of friends" think Jake Thomas is a better player than either Todd Mayo or Duane Wilson??

But of course the rub, as is always the case with guys like Derrick and Jake - They don't force action, rarely create anything for themselves or others - and this is why Pomeroy classifies them as either "Nearly Invisible," or "Limited Roles."  (Yet they both were/are very visible and have MAJOR roles - in that they both play the most minutes on the team.)
  

Pretty simple: When JJJ is playing very well, he earns more minutes and therefore his point totals are higher. The minutes are a result of his good play, not the cause.

Also, it's amusing (but not unexpected) that when Ners was proven completely wrong on the PR issue, he just conveniently ignored those posts.

[MU82]

 Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

I know. It's almost like when a 4th-string freshman guard who has the skills of your typical Liberty recruit has one moment in the sun and then some ex-high school jock spends the next 10 months trying to convince everybody that the 4th-stringer is a superstar in the making.

It strains all credibility.

[NersEllenson]

Pretty simple: When JJJ is playing very well, he earns more minutes and therefore his point totals are higher. The minutes are a result of his good play, not the cause.

Also, it's amusing (but not unexpected) that when Ners was proven completely wrong on the PR issue, he just conveniently ignored those posts.

I stand by my comments on Dickie Simpkins.  When something so out of left field begins after 25 games of saying virtually nothing - it reeks as odd to say the least.

Also, i believe a new meme here needs to be "earns more minutes."  LOL.  Please, share with me what production on the floor you've seen from Derrick indicates he's "earned those minutes?"

[dgies9156]

Fortunately, I don't believe JjJ is like that. I think he is a hard working kid who will work ass off during the offseason to get better. Hopefully, he can have a Vander-like improvement between his Sophomore and Junior campaigns. I know Wojo is having him fix that awful shooting form he has. That is a process that takes time.

Boy I hope you are right. If he lives up to his potential....

(wife prodding me and waking me up from a dream)

[GGGG]

If JjJ transfers because he's not happy with the playing time he's earning, he only need look in a mirror for the source of the problem. I will wish him luck, thank him for his service, and never think about him again. Fortunately, I don't believe JjJ is like that. I think he is a hard working kid who will work ass off during the offseason to get better. Hopefully, he can have a Vander-like improvement between his Sophomore and Junior campaigns. I know Wojo is having him fix that awful shooting form he has. That is a process that takes time.

Vander was a much better player as a sophomore than JJJ is.  There is a reason Vander got 5 more mpg as a sophomore on a S16 team than JJJ is getting on a struggling team with only 8 scholarship players.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I stand by my comments on Dickie Simpkins.  When something so out of left field begins after 25 games of saying virtually nothing - it reeks as odd to say the least.

Also, i believe a new meme here needs to be "earns more minutes."  LOL.  Please, share with me what production on the floor you've seen from Derrick indicates he's "earned those minutes?"

You can stand by your comments all you want. You're flat out wrong. Again.

You've constructed a narrative in an area that is completely out of your area of expertise and you haven't the faintest clue what you are talking about. Now, I'm sure you'll launch into some "LOL" statement about wrestlers, or Star Wars Fans, or whatever. Great. Have fun with that.

Doesn't change a thing. You're wrong.

I'm telling you you're wrong. Instead of listening, or asking somebody (me) who might know something about it, you just double down and plug your ears. This is why you have no credibility with me, or with anybody on this board.

You have a pathological need to construct these complex narratives to explain the world through your eyes. You lack the ability to evaluate data in a clear, logical manner, and you fail disastrously with more advanced concepts like "cause vs correlation".

You routinely cherry pick bits of information and put it into some sort of f*cked up "narrative blender" to get to the answers you want, and when you are called out, you just move to another thread and restart the debate all over again. You present opinions and facts, and you use volume and frequency of your posts to support your tireless agenda. Circular logic at it's finest.

The month you were away was honestly the most enjoyable month this board has had since the last time I sent you on vacation.  

You're not pleasant to deal with. You routinely call other posters names, and openly mock their opinions and hold yourself above them. You even started calling Derrick a cute nickname, which isn't cute at all.

I'm tired of dealing with you. We're all tired of dealing with you. Go away. Don't ever come back. We don't like you. We don't need you. You're not intelligent. You're not funny.

You've overplayed your hand, and it's time for you to go.

You won't be missed, I promise.

[MU82]

You can stand by your comments all you want. You're flat out wrong. Again.

You've constructed a narrative in an area that is completely out of your area of expertise and you haven't the faintest clue what you are talking about. Now, I'm sure you'll launch into some "LOL" statement about wrestlers, or Star Wars Fans, or whatever. Great. Have fun with that.

Doesn't change a thing. You're wrong.

I'm telling you you're wrong. Instead of listening, or asking somebody (me) who might know something about it, you just double down and plug your ears. This is why you have no credibility with me, or with anybody on this board.

You have a pathological need to construct these complex narratives to explain the world through your eyes. You lack the ability to evaluate data in a clear, logical manner, and you fail disastrously with more advanced concepts like "cause vs correlation".

You routinely cherry pick bits of information and put it into some sort of f*cked up "narrative blender" to get to the answers you want, and when you are called out, you just move to another thread and restart the debate all over again. You present opinions and facts, and you use volume and frequency of your posts to support your tireless agenda. Circular logic at it's finest.

The month you were away was honestly the most enjoyable month this board has had since the last time I sent you on vacation.  

You're not pleasant to deal with. You routinely call other posters names, and openly mock their opinions and hold yourself above them. You even started calling Derrick a cute nickname, which isn't cute at all.

I'm tired of dealing with you. We're all tired of dealing with you. Go away. Don't ever come back. We don't like you. We don't need you. You're not intelligent. You're not funny.

You've overplayed your hand, and it's time for you to go.

You won't be missed, I promise.

C'mon now ... don't hold back. How do you really feel?

[GGGG]

Canned, I appreciate this.  But Ners basic problem is that he is so convinced he is right, that he simply does not believe that he is wrong or can learn something from someone who has a differing point of view.  Remember, he truly felt that the mods locked down the "Should Ners be banned?" thread because Scoop *needs* him to create debate.  Like he is the Skip Bayless of Scoop or something.

IOW, nothing will change.  He is who he is.  The mods tried dealing with him, but when he returned and did the same exact thing all over again, they blamed everyone else.  What can you do?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I stand by my comments on Dickie Simpkins.  When something so out of left field begins after 25 games of saying virtually nothing - it reeks as odd to say the least.

Can you say #NersIsNuts #SeekHelp

[Lighthouse 84]

f*cked up "narrative blender"

Ners's f*cked up narrative blender.....is that better than a Nutribullet?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You totally have it wrong and backwards.  You play talented guys max minutes...period...and live with their growing pains.  Particularly when your VET gives you next to nothing.

I love how you and the others who champion Derrick completely disregard stats offered on JJJ's 6 games of getting more than 25 minutes, and just piss all over them.  While you can't find anything even close to Derrick Wilson putting up these kind of numbers in any type of scenario at any point EVER in his career at MU.  Why?? Because he isn't freaking capable.  At least JJJ has shown you he IS capable of such production.  And he's only a sophomore.  Take the shackles off Wojo. 
And as I've said, just because a guy comes in and perhaps misses his first two shots and might have a turnover - it doesn't mean he is going to be bad for a whole game.  So, for JJJ - he goes into a game tight - knowing that basically if I don't make my first shot or two, have a turnover - I'm getting yanked.  It leads to tight performance.

I would take Derrick's season production over JjJ's, seven ways to Sunday. As would 99% of people here. You keep saying JjJ has more "talent" than Derrick. Fine. But Derrick is a better basketball player than JjJ s right now. I want the best basketball players on the floor as much as possible. JjJ will probably become a better basketball player because I see that "talent" that you keep talking about. But he ain't there yet.

You show a distinct lack of understanding as to how coaches make decisions regarding playing time. Come conference season, coaches know who their starting five are. In our case it is Carlino, Duane, Derrick, Juan, Luke. These players are going to get 20+ mpg every game because they proved to the coach during the non-conference season that they are the best players on the team. The remaining players, Steve, Sandy, and JjJ have to earn their playing time with production. This isn't unfair treatment. This is Wojo recognizing who his best players are. You say that players won't play well in this system, that this makes them "play tight" or whatever you want to call it. Maybe that's true, but for every JjJ there is a Sandy Cohen who responds to the challenge and become increasingly better each time he goes out on the court.

And I'll say again, I don't think JjJ is the type of player who is looking over his shoulder every time he plays. He plays aggressively and fearless....to a fault sometimes. I think he is working his ass off trying to become a better player. Players who are afraid to be pulled don't take as many three pointers as he does. I think you do a great disservice to him by portraying him as this scared boy who is afraid of the big bad Wojo and pouts when he doesn't get his way. I know that's not what you think you are doing, but that's how it is coming off.