4 ,on 5

[GooooMarquette]

Derrbrick

Name calling?  One of our own players?

Hope you're proud of yourself.

[BCHoopster]

Same could be said about the rest of the team in the last 4 minutes....why on god's green earth are we complaining about Derrick again?  This game was definitely about coaching, go after Wojo on this one, Derrick didn't do anything to get ridiculed for.  Just goes to show how reflexive the "Derrick is the worst player to exist" crowd has gotten.

Agreed but college ball is about the point guard,  and the last two years  MU has not had  a game changer, blame Buzz if you want to put it on somebody.

[mu03eng]

Agreed but college ball is about the point guard,  and the last two years  MU has not had  a game changer, blame Buzz if you want to put it on somebody.

Matt Carlino is a point guard by pedigree too, he didn't win the game either.  Point guard is a critical position, but it has no more critical in the game where the opponent isn't pressuring the ball than any other position.  Once in the half court set, point guard has no impact as a position than any other.  If Duane or Matt had taken control of the game and one it for us, the fact that they weren't point guards wouldn't have matter.  Hell, if Luke had touched the ball on offense in the last 4 minutes and taken over the game, would it have mattered that he wasn't a point guard?

[BCHoopster]

Matt Carlino is a point guard by pedigree too, he didn't win the game either.  Point guard is a critical position, but it has no more critical in the game where the opponent isn't pressuring the ball than any other position.  Once in the half court set, point guard has no impact as a position than any other.  If Duane or Matt had taken control of the game and one it for us, the fact that they weren't point guards wouldn't have matter.  Hell, if Luke had touched the ball on offense in the last 4 minutes and taken over the game, would it have mattered that he wasn't a point guard?

Agreed, but I am looking more the whole season not just this game, Carlino is a two guard, shooter, turns the ball over to much and not quick enough. Derrick on certain points of the game is better than Carlino.

[mu03eng]

Agreed, but I am looking more the whole season not just this game, Carlino is a two guard, shooter, turns the ball over to much and not quick enough. Derrick on certain points of the game is better than Carlino.

So what is your point?  Just because Derrick is a point guard doesn't mean he should be the guy....point guard could be the guy in the clutch, but it could be really any position.  Look back at MU's final four run, each game a different player was the go to player.  If you've got a go to player at point great, but it doesn't have to be.

Don't put on Derrick that he's not a go to player....none of our roster is a go to player (Duane will get there, count on it)

[MU82]

Big Duane fan and I think he's gonna be a nice player, whether it's at PG or combo guard. But he missed about a half-dozen layups today, including several easy ones. The funny thing is he made the tough ones.

I also am not the biggest fan of Derrick as a player, although he is significantly better this season than he was last season. Anybody who thinks Derrick lost this game must have been watching with their eyes closed.

WE'RE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH, PEOPLE!

We don't have a "closer" other than Carlino, and it's pretty easy to take a 6-2 guard out of the game if you really want to.

[BCHoopster]

So what is your point?  Just because Derrick is a point guard doesn't mean he should be the guy....point guard could be the guy in the clutch, but it could be really any position.  Look back at MU's final four run, each game a different player was the go to player.  If you've got a go to player at point great, but it doesn't have to be.

Don't put on Derrick that he's not a go to player....none of our roster is a go to player (Duane will get there, count on it)

I guess my point is that Buzz made a mistake.

[bilsu]

It does.    Second most career minutes on the team.   Best defender.   For two years, under two different coaching staffs, no one has been able to take the point guard position from him.    This says more about the circumstances and the other PG candidates than it does about Derrick.   I thought he was going to be one of the top 2-3 players on the team and that is why I predicted 14 wins.     Which is looking optimistic right now.      Next year, there will be talent and less experience.   I am not bullish on next year's team, either. 

+1 Derrick would be the starting pg next year, if he had another year left. That alone should tell you next year will also be a bad year.

[NersEllenson]

+1 Derrick would be the starting pg next year, if he had another year left. That alone should tell you next year will also be a bad year.

LOL. Thank God it won't be a possibility. And ironically even though we lose our best scorer in Carlino, next years team will be better by the sheer case of not being handcuffed by Derrick at point guard. Duane Wilson could play it right now 10 times better for the sheer fact he is a threat from everywhere on the floor - an actually aggressive and puts pressure on a defense.

I agree though if Derrick was around next year, Wojo's man crush on Derrick would be alive and well and he'd be playing 33 again while the team loses at a high clip.

[BCHoopster]

+1 Derrick would be the starting pg next year, if he had another year left. That alone should tell you next year will also be a bad year.

I am sure Wojo understands that as well, I did find out that they feel Hanif can play point,  So if he can Hanif, Wilson, Ellenson, Fisher and maybe Cohen are your 5.  Back-ups Heldt, Taylor,
Ellenson, then not sure with issues with Nick and JJJ.  Sacre Amin might be #11, might even start if Wojo offers.  It is interesting that none of the big schools have offered yet?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Agreed but college ball is about the point guard,  and the last two years  MU has not had  a game changer, blame Buzz if you want to put it on somebody.

It's a guard's game...especially the point guard in college

[BCHoopster]

It's a guard's game...especially the point guard in college

I think Ners, you and I agree about that.  In the last 10 seconds on the clock, who has the ball, supposedly a creator, Derrick is not, Junior Cadougan, Travis, DJ and others before them.  Or look at the Badgers, Tra, Trevon Hughes, even Bronson but he can pull up and shoot it.  Just look at the Big East right now,  all are better than MU's.  During the 70's it was insane, Dean
Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan, and one of my favorites Sam Worthen.

[Lennys Tap]

If you really believe he is one of "our best players", then that explains a lot.

If good Duane Wilson shows up he's our third best player. If bad Duane does he's our second. Either way, he's one of our best. On a good team he'd be our 7th or 8th best but incase you didn't notice this is not a good team.

[wadesworld]

Lol, go count your participation ribbons.

Next time you win a National Title in...well, anything...let me know and we'll talk participation ribbons kid.

[brewcity77]

Quit It Already?

Quoted In Agreement 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Wades - What are your qualifications with regard to "knowledge" of the game. Share with the board your experience that makes you so incredibly qualified to assert expertise.

This again?  You played HS basketball.  Get over yourself.

[GGGG]

Derrick has no offensive game whatsoever. His stats are hollow and anybody who played as many minutes as he does, would be able to accumulate the points and assists he does. He has made improvements on offense this year, but he is still dreadful. He is fine on defense, but imo he is still a liability overall. To say he's one of the best players on the team, great...that's really nothing to hang your hat on.

If JJJ plays Derrick's minutes, the only offensive stats that he would match is scoring.  But then he would give up a bunch more on the defensive end.

[GGGG]

Big Duane fan and I think he's gonna be a nice player, whether it's at PG or combo guard. But he missed about a half-dozen layups today, including several easy ones. The funny thing is he made the tough ones.

I also am not the biggest fan of Derrick as a player, although he is significantly better this season than he was last season. Anybody who thinks Derrick lost this game must have been watching with their eyes closed.

WE'RE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH, PEOPLE!

We don't have a "closer" other than Carlino, and it's pretty easy to take a 6-2 guard out of the game if you really want to.

This is pretty much accurate on all counts.

[bilsu]

McDonald all-american point guards often have an adjustment problem freshmen year in college basketball. The idea of Haanif being our savior at point guard next year, when he does not even play point in high school is just plain laughable. He may develope into a very good point guard, but he will have a hugh learning curve next year.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Derrick is not, Junior Cadougan, Travis, DJ and others before them.

I don't recall any games where Derrick turned the ball over 10 times, like Junior did. Some of his games were absolutely atrocious.

Derrick is a better player than Cadougan was. I would take him every day of the week.

People have a very short memory.

[brewcity77]

Derrick is a better player than Cadougan was. I would take him every day of the week.

Just looking at their senior years, let's compare Derrick and Junior.

Where Junior is better

PPG: 8.5 > 6.0
FT: 71.4% > 46.3%
Assist Rate: 28.3% > 23.9%
FD/40: 3.3 > 2.5

Where Derrick is better

ORtg: 104.5 > 96.1
2PFG: 51.2% > 49.8%
3PFG: 29.6% > 22.6%
eFG: 49.5% > 45.8%
Off Reb: 3.2% > 2.1%
Def Reb: 10.8% > 10.1%
RPG: 3.6 > 2.9
APG: 3.9 > 3.8
SPG: 1.2 > 1.1
TO Rate: 18.6% > 25.8%
TPG: 1.3 > 2.5
FTRate: 37.6% > 32.3%

The basic stats and advanced stats all favor Derrick pretty heavily, but what really stands out is usage. Junior took 20.4% of the shots when he was on the floor, Derrick takes 12.4%. Neither player were good shooters. Derrick is a bit better from 2, 3, and in terms of eFG%, but despite that he is more willing to defer to other players than Junior was. Junior had Gardner, Blue, Jamil, Mayo, Otule, and Lockett, all of whom were more offensively efficient than he was and he was still more likely to shoot. Derrick is willing to defer even though Carlino, Fischer, and Cohen are the only guys on the team more offensively efficient than he is.

Junior made some spectacular plays at times. He was more likely to get the ball to guys in scoring positions. But the only reason he scored more is because he shot so much more. And despite Junior drawing more fouls per game, Derrick has a higher free throw rate which tells me he's better at picking his opportunities.

And all this is without mentioning how much better a defender Derrick is than Junior is. Just look at Roosevelt Jones' statline yesterday if you need a reminder of that. Junior wasn't necessarily a bad defender, but he was at best average. Derrick isn't necessarily an elite defender, but he is well above average.

The last good point guard we had was Dominic James. The last great one was Travis Diener. But since DJ graduated, we've had a series of average (Acker) to slightly below average (Buycks, Junior, Derrick) point guards. Neither Junior nor Derrick were great college points, but if I had the choice between one of them based on their senior season, I'd take Derrick.

[GooooMarquette]

Just looking at their senior years, let's compare Derrick and Junior.

Where Junior is better

PPG: 8.5 > 6.0
FT: 71.4% > 46.3%
Assist Rate: 28.3% > 23.9%
FD/40: 3.3 > 2.5

Where Derrick is better

ORtg: 104.5 > 96.1
2PFG: 51.2% > 49.8%
3PFG: 29.6% > 22.6%
eFG: 49.5% > 45.8%
Off Reb: 3.2% > 2.1%
Def Reb: 10.8% > 10.1%
RPG: 3.6 > 2.9
APG: 3.9 > 3.8
SPG: 1.2 > 1.1
TO Rate: 18.6% > 25.8%
TPG: 1.3 > 2.5
FTRate: 37.6% > 32.3%

The basic stats and advanced stats all favor Derrick pretty heavily, but what really stands out is usage. Junior took 20.4% of the shots when he was on the floor, Derrick takes 12.4%. Neither player were good shooters. Derrick is a bit better from 2, 3, and in terms of eFG%, but despite that he is more willing to defer to other players than Junior was. Junior had Gardner, Blue, Jamil, Mayo, Otule, and Lockett, all of whom were more offensively efficient than he was and he was still more likely to shoot. Derrick is willing to defer even though Carlino, Fischer, and Cohen are the only guys on the team more offensively efficient than he is.

Junior made some spectacular plays at times. He was more likely to get the ball to guys in scoring positions. But the only reason he scored more is because he shot so much more. And despite Junior drawing more fouls per game, Derrick has a higher free throw rate which tells me he's better at picking his opportunities.

And all this is without mentioning how much better a defender Derrick is than Junior is. Just look at Roosevelt Jones' statline yesterday if you need a reminder of that. Junior wasn't necessarily a bad defender, but he was at best average. Derrick isn't necessarily an elite defender, but he is well above average.

The last good point guard we had was Dominic James. The last great one was Travis Diener. But since DJ graduated, we've had a series of average (Acker) to slightly below average (Buycks, Junior, Derrick) point guards. Neither Junior nor Derrick were great college points, but if I had the choice between one of them based on their senior season, I'd take Derrick.

Haters hate facts.

[GGGG]

I don't recall any games where Derrick turned the ball over 10 times, like Junior did. Some of his games were absolutely atrocious.

Derrick is a better player than Cadougan was. I would take him every day of the week.

People have a very short memory.

Correct.  This team would be no better with Junior as their PG.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think Ners, you and I agree about that.  In the last 10 seconds on the clock, who has the ball, supposedly a creator, Derrick is not, Junior Cadougan, Travis, DJ and others before them.  Or look at the Badgers, Tra, Trevon Hughes, even Bronson but he can pull up and shoot it.  Just look at the Big East right now,  all are better than MU's.  During the 70's it was insane, Dean
Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan, and one of my favorites Sam Worthen.

In recent MU history, the "creator" with the ball in his hands in the final 10 seconds has been Novak, McNeal, Lazar, Butler, DJO, Crowder and Blue. Remind me - how many of those guys were PGs?

[Lennys Tap]

It's a guard's game...especially the point guard in college

Don't disagree about the importance of guards and especially point guards in college but it's not as simple as that. Our NBA point guard (Travis) led us to the NIT his junior and senior seasons. Junior (no better than Derrick by the numbers) led us to a Sweet 16 and Elite 8 as an upperclassman. More to success than a stud point guard.