Have To Tell It Like It is

[GGGG]

About as long as yours lasted, Sunshine. Practice what you preach.

Wow. Willie has reading comprehension problems again.

Show me one time where I have engaged in this debate over the past 24 hours. Just one.

[mattyv1908]

Think about what you just wrote.

You have half the team listed as rim-denting bricklayers.  And STILL Deonte was getting the minutes he was getting.  What does that tell you about what the coaches thought of his overall ability to contribute to the team?  Are the coaches just wrong?

Additionally, if what you wrote is true, then do you and/or Ners really expect one player to make ANY difference at all on a team that is that poor? 

Coaching staffs are wrong all the time.  Jay Cutler is starting on the Bears (sorry Bears fans).

Wojo's decision is his decision, but that doesn't make it right or wrong simply because he made it.  I personally think this is a coaching error.  Every coach has them.

Yes, on a team this bad with virtually no chance of making the NCAAT, getting one of your highest ceiling players on the team  with two more years of eligibility minutes does make a difference.  It happens every year in MLB when rosters are expanded and non contending teams get prospects playing time.  Why is Blake Bortles starting in Jacksonville?

It's ok that you disagree with me, but if what Wojo decides to do automatically makes him right then we should pull the plug on this message board entirely.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Coaching staffs are wrong all the time.  Jay Cutler is starting on the Bears (sorry Bears fans).

Wojo's decision is his decision, but that doesn't make it right or wrong simply because he made it.  I personally think this is a coaching error.  Every coach has them.

Yes, on a team this bad with virtually no chance of making the NCAAT, getting one of your highest ceiling players on the team  with two more years of eligibility minutes does make a difference.  It happens every year in MLB when rosters are expanded and non contending teams get prospects playing time.  Why is Blake Bortles starting in Jacksonville?

It's ok that you disagree with me, but if what Wojo decides to do automatically makes him right then we should pull the plug on this message board entirely.

So MU has had 2 straight coaches who can't evaluate the talent on their own team?

We've had some bad luck.

[mattyv1908]

So MU has had 2 straight coaches who can't evaluate the talent on their own team?

We've had some bad luck.

You had to do quite a bit of imaginary connecting of the proverbial dots to pull that out of my statement.  Never once did I mention our previous coaching staff.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  Basic reading comprehension alone would suggest you didn't actually read what I posted.

I don't follow.

I don't think Buzz utilized Burton poorly last year as a freshman with Gardner, Otule and Jamil Wilson all seeing significant minutes in the forward position.  Of all the things that transpired last year, I think Buzz's utilization of Burton as instant offense in short spurts was one of his better decisions last season.

I'm not commenting on the Derrick/Dawson debate so please don't lump me into that crowd.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Coaching staffs are wrong all the time.  Jay Cutler is starting on the Bears (sorry Bears fans).

Wojo's decision is his decision, but that doesn't make it right or wrong simply because he made it.  I personally think this is a coaching error.  Every coach has them.

Yes, on a team this bad with virtually no chance of making the NCAAT, getting one of your highest ceiling players on the team  with two more years of eligibility minutes does make a difference.  It happens every year in MLB when rosters are expanded and non contending teams get prospects playing time.  Why is Blake Bortles starting in Jacksonville?

It's ok that you disagree with me, but if what Wojo decides to do automatically makes him right then we should pull the plug on this message board entirely.

I don't know if Wojo was "right", but I will defer to his judgement on these kinds of matters over any poster on this board.  It just smacks of complete and utter arrogance that anybody who posts on here actually thinks they have better insight into what this team needs than the coaching staff.  It is very hard to take that kind of disregard for reality seriously. 

[madtownwarrior]

no, we have just had more than our share of dipshit posters the past 2 years...

So MU has had 2 straight coaches who can't evaluate the talent on their own team?

We've had some bad luck.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You had to do quite a bit of imaginary connecting of the proverbial dots to pull that out of my statement.  Never once did I mention our previous coaching staff.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  Basic reading comprehension alone would suggest you didn't actually read what I posted.

I don't follow.

I don't think Buzz utilized Burton poorly last year as a freshman with Gardner, Otule and Jamil Wilson all seeing significant minutes in the forward position.  Of all the things that transpired last year, I think Buzz's utilization of Burton as instant offense in short spurts was one of his better decisions last season.

I'm not commenting on the Derrick/Dawson debate so please don't lump me into that crowd.

Understood. Sorry, I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush.  

Last season I heard over and over again that the coach didn't know how talented (insert players) were, and they needed more minutes. (not from you, but from some others)

Now, Burton transfers, and I read that Wojo doesn't know how talented Burton and/or Dawson is, and doesn't play them enough minutes.

From a big picture perspective, I find it highly unlikely that these coaches have Steamin' Willie Beamen sitting on the bench waiting to blow up, but they are just too stupid to realize it.

Deonte looked LOST when he was on the floor. Not bad at basketball, but LOST at basketball. The potential is obviously there, but it's hard for me to criticize a coach for not playing a guy who doesn't seem to be executing what the team is trying to do.

In a game of 1v1, I'd take Deonte over anybody. In a 5v5 40min. game? Well, Deonte has some pretty big holes in his game right now, which limits his minutes.

Seems pretty basic to me.

[mattyv1908]

I don't know if Wojo was "right", but I will defer to his judgement on these kinds of matters over any poster on this board.  It just smacks of complete and utter arrogance that anybody who posts on here actually thinks they have better insight into what this team needs than the coaching staff.  It is very hard to take that kind of disregard for reality seriously. 

I don't view it as a disregard for reality at all.

It's a matter of opinion.  Do you struggle with opposing viewpoints?

Coaches in all sports get fired all the time for what others deem as bad decisions or poor performance.  The vast majority of us on Scoop are not making those decisions yet we still have opinions in regards to everything that is Marquette basketball.  What's the point of having a message board where people post OPINIONS?  

[mattyv1908]

Understood. Sorry, I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush.  

Last season I heard over and over again that the coach didn't know how talented (insert players) were, and they needed more minutes. (not from you, but from some others)

Now, Burton transfers, and I read that Wojo doesn't know how talented Burton and/or Dawson is, and doesn't play them enough minutes.

From a big picture perspective, I find it highly unlikely that these coaches have Steamin' Willie Beamen sitting on the bench waiting to blow up, but they are just too stupid to realize it.

Deonte looked LOST when he was on the floor. Not bad at basketball, but LOST at basketball. The potential is obviously there, but it's hard for me to criticize a coach for not playing a guy who doesn't seem to be executing what the team is trying to do.

In a game of 1v1, I'd take Deonte over anybody. In a 5v5 40min. game? Well, Deonte has some pretty big holes in his game right now, which limits his minutes.

Seems pretty basic to me.

Maybe Deonte is LOST period with what is still a very recent and personal loss.  At that point it's critical of both the coaching staff and player to communicate effectively in all aspects not just basketball.  It's a delicate situation that I think 2-3 years of head coaching experience probably yields a different result for Wojo and Deonte.

I'm sorry too and thanks for deescalating a misunderstanding.

[NersEllenson]

I don't know if Wojo was "right", but I will defer to his judgement on these kinds of matters over any poster on this board.  It just smacks of complete and utter arrogance that anybody who posts on here actually thinks they have better insight into what this team needs than the coaching staff.  It is very hard to take that kind of disregard for reality seriously. 

Is Bill Belicheck not considered one of the great football coaches of our time?  Did he have it "right" playing Bledsoe over Brady?  I mean, come on, he saw them play in practice every day.

Did Mike Holmgren have it "right" starting Don Majikowski over Brett Farve?  I mean, come on, he saw them play in practice every day.

And please stop with the whole self righteousness.  It isn't arrogance to have a different viewpoint than that of a coach of your favorite team.  Fans second guess coaches ALL the time.  Coaches get fired by GMs.  Coaches don't always have it right.  Included back to back coaching staffs.

I know, I know I get ridiculed when I say it isn't hard to see how Wojo could have a bias and favorable view of Derrick - given he shares a similar fabric.  Coaches aren't immune to developing a bias toward a player they like, even if the production suggests they don't belong on the field.  They get a longer leash, and more benefit of the doubt than does a player a coach may not be as fond of personally.  #humannature

[jesmu84]

Where is all this "we should have been playing only with 2 guard lineups" thinking coming from? I think I read a majority of threads around here, and I don't really believe I ever saw this being a point before the transfers came up. If it is a problem MU is playing 3 guard lineups, why is it just coming out now? I recall many people believing Wojo would employ a 3 guard set before the season even started, and I'm not sure I can recall a lot of negative talk about that strategy.

It seems like it's only now a point of contention as an argument about how Wojo could have gotten Deonte more minutes. Which, if you ask me, is pretty unfair monday-morning qb'ing.

[NersEllenson]

Where is all this "we should have been playing only with 2 guard lineups" thinking coming from? I think I read a majority of threads around here, and I don't really believe I ever saw this being a point before the transfers came up. If it is a problem MU is playing 3 guard lineups, why is it just coming out now? I recall many people believing Wojo would employ a 3 guard set before the season even started, and I'm not sure I can recall a lot of negative talk about that strategy.

It seems like it's only now a point of contention as an argument about how Wojo could have gotten Deonte more minutes. Which, if you ask me, is pretty unfair monday-morning qb'ing.

There have been many here, including some of Derrick's most staunch supporters, who were baffled as to why he'd be playing alongside Carlino and Duane.  With 2 other primary ball handlers on the floor, it was shocking to many to find him still playing 30+ minutes.

[We R Final Four]

Is Bill Belicheck not considered one of the great football coaches of our time?  Did he have it "right" playing Bledsoe over Brady?  I mean, come on, he saw them play in practice every day.

Did Mike Holmgren have it "right" starting Don Majikowski over Brett Farve?  I mean, come on, he saw them play in practice every day.

And please stop with the whole self righteousness.  It isn't arrogance to have a different viewpoint than that of a coach of your favorite team.  Fans second guess coaches ALL the time.  Coaches get fired by GMs.  Coaches don't always have it right.  Included back to back coaching staffs.

I know, I know I get ridiculed when I say it isn't hard to see how Wojo could have a bias and favorable view of Derrick - given he shares a similar fabric.  Coaches aren't immune to developing a bias toward a player they like, even if the production suggests they don't belong on the field.  They get a longer leash, and more benefit of the doubt than does a player a coach may not be as fond of personally.  #humannature

Very Chico-esque.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If some don't realize Deonte could be playing a good chunk of Derrick's minutes particularly now that we are playing zone, and Derrick plays a forward spot on the Zone D - don't know what to tell people.

Ners,

You can't possibly be telling me that you think it is a good idea to play 3/4 of literally the only people on your roster who can play the four and five postion at the same time. Especially when one of those players is as foul prone as Burton. That lineup could spell disaster. Would it have been more effective offesnively? Almost definitely. Would have been passable defensively? Sure. But what happens when Deonte, Steve, or Juan pick up two quick fouls? What happens when two of the pick up two quick fouls?

You can't always play your five best players at the same time (which I don't know if Deonte was even truly on that list this season). You have five different positions that need to be covered at all times. Deonte's size and our lack of size made it necessary to play him exclusively at the four. Derrick Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with Deonte's transfer.

After Luke was eligible, sure, Deonte could have taken some or even most of Derrick's minutes. In fact, I expected him to. But he decided to leave before that could happen.

I don't know why Deonte is transferring, but it sure as hell has nothing to do with Derrick Wilson.

[brandx]

I don't view it as a disregard for reality at all.

It's a matter of opinion.  Do you struggle with opposing viewpoints?

Coaches in all sports get fired all the time for what others deem as bad decisions or poor performance.  The vast majority of us on Scoop are not making those decisions yet we still have opinions in regards to everything that is Marquette basketball.  What's the point of having a message board where people post OPINIONS?  

Don't take it so personally. I am one of the guys here who disagrees with you on most things MU. So what? We all have our opinions and each is as valid as the next.

Doesn't make them all correct - obviously you are wrong when you don't agree with me - but personally I like to read different opinions.  And sometimes they make me alter my position. My problems with Ners isn't his opinion on the Derrick/Dawson issue. It is that he continues to say the same thing over and over and over and over.........

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The only people standing in front of Burton's playing time last semester was Juan and Cohen. Cohen got less minutes than Deonte and Juan was head and shoulders better than Deonte.

So either:

1) Deonte isn't self aware and thinks he deserved more playing time than Juan
2) Deonte thinks he deserves some of Cohen's minutes
4) Deonte doesn't understand why Wojo was using him exclusively at the four. This could be on Deonte or on Wojo for poor communication.
5) This doesn't actually doesn't have anything to do with playing time.

[mu-rara]

nm

[willie warrior]

Wow. Willie has reading comprehension problems again.

Show me one time where I have engaged in this debate over the past 24 hours. Just one.

Here are 3. Your posts at about 11:30, 2:10 and 2:29 in this thread. Comprende amigo? What an amnesiac!!!!!
Mr. non-credible. And no, you are the one that fails to comprehend.

Practice what you preach.

[GGGG]

Here are 3. Your posts at about 11:30, 2:10 and 2:29 in this thread. Comprende amigo? What an amnesiac!!!!!
Mr. non-credible. And no, you are the one that fails to comprehend.

Practice what you preach.

LOL...two of them were calling Ners out on his breaking of the moratorium and one was a joke.

Originally I was kinda joking about the lack of reading comprehension thing.  But now...well...maybe you'll get some new picture books for Christmas.  Be sure to break out the crayons and write Santa a letter soon.

[Hards Alumni]

Not just MU, my sources say every ncaa transfer is due to Derrick this year.

NAME YOUR SOURCES!!!

[mattyv1908]

LOL...two of them were calling Ners out on his breaking of the moratorium and one was a joke.

Originally I was kinda joking about the lack of reading comprehension thing.  But now...well...maybe you'll get some new picture books for Christmas.  Be sure to break out the crayons and write Santa a letter soon.

Well played

LOL

[MerrittsMustache]

Coaching staffs are wrong all the time.  Jay Cutler is starting on the Bears (sorry Bears fans).

Wojo's decision is his decision, but that doesn't make it right or wrong simply because he made it.  I personally think this is a coaching error.  Every coach has them.

Yes, on a team this bad with virtually no chance of making the NCAAT, getting one of your highest ceiling players on the team  with two more years of eligibility minutes does make a difference.  It happens every year in MLB when rosters are expanded and non contending teams get prospects playing time.  Why is Blake Bortles starting in Jacksonville?

It's ok that you disagree with me, but if what Wojo decides to do automatically makes him right then we should pull the plug on this message board entirely.

Comparing NFL starting QBs to college basketball players is pretty ridiculous. That said, if the remaining MU players are Jay Cutler then Burton and Dawson must be Jimmy Clausen and David Fales.

What kind of message would it send to JJJ, Cohen, Duane, etc when they consistently outperform Burton in practice but he takes their game minutes because of his alleged "higher ceiling?"

[NersEllenson]

Comparing NFL starting QBs to college basketball players is pretty ridiculous. That said, if the remaining MU players are Jay Cutler then Burton and Dawson must be Jimmy Clausen and David Fales.

What kind of message would it send to JJJ, Cohen, Duane, etc when they consistently outperform Burton in practice but he takes their game minutes because of his alleged "higher ceiling?"

Huh?  Who cares how the guys play in practice if it isn't translating to games.  And I'm not referring to Cohen or Duane here.  Furthermore, there was no reason for Deonte to have to eat into Duane, Cohen or JJJ's minutes.  He aint a 1/2 - he's a 3/4 combo/.  Perfect for the role Derrick's been playing.

[MU82]

Yes, on a team this bad with virtually no chance of making the NCAAT, getting one of your highest ceiling players on the team  with two more years of eligibility minutes does make a difference.  It happens every year in MLB when rosters are expanded and non contending teams get prospects playing time.  

A couple things here.

First, do we all assume that Wojo went into this season convinced his team had virtually no shot at an NCAA bid? Coaches are wired to think they can achieve the improbable. Even if they say publicly (as Buzz and Lou Holtz and many others did) that "we aren't very good," they might actually believe, "Hey, until somebody proves otherwise, we can pull this off." Maybe Wojo was thinking that if they could just "hold serve" until Fischer got eligible and then get on a bit of a roll in the conference to win 11 or 12 games, they could be the surprise team in the league. I mean, the Big East coaches picked us to tie with Butler ... and now it's obvious that Butler is WAAAY better than the coaches thought. I wonder if the Butler coach went into the season feeling his team had virtually no shot at an NCAA bid.

Second, we are at the "April" of this basketball season, not the "September," when baseball teams expand their rosters and non-contending teams get prospects playing time. In April, even the Cubs and Pirates and Royals think they've got a shot ... and some years, they stun the baseball world and they actually do have a shot.

Coaches are wired to think, "Somehow, I'm going to find a way to win." Not, "Well, even though the season has just started, I know we're gonna suck."

[mattyv1908]

Comparing NFL starting QBs to college basketball players is pretty ridiculous. That said, if the remaining MU players are Jay Cutler then Burton and Dawson must be Jimmy Clausen and David Fales.

What kind of message would it send to JJJ, Cohen, Duane, etc when they consistently outperform Burton in practice but he takes their game minutes because of his alleged "higher ceiling?"

Because games are what matter.

I haven't seen a nationally televised practice ever.