MLB Offseason and Winter Meetings

[buckchuckler]

I was referring back to the 'decent' farm system comment.

Well, I didn't say that.  But Baseball Prospectus had the Sox 21 before last season.  So not bottom 3 as you said.  And that was in Feb of last season. I would say the Sox have certainly only improved since then.  Frank Montas exploded, they added Spencer Adams and most notably Carlos Rodon.  Probably putting them somewhere in the middle of the pack.  

[RushmoreAcademy]

It's MLB. Money means nothing.

[buckchuckler]

It's MLB. Money means nothing.

Really?  Then why did the Red Sox offer 20 million less than the Cubs?  They must think that money means something.  There is no salary cap, but teams still operate within the constraints of a budget. 

[🏀]

Even if they are in a better position, it isn't by that much.  The Sox have some of the best contracts in baseball.  They have great talent signed long term for very team friendly rates.  Sale, Quintana, and Abreu together will make less than Lester next season.  Also the are also all signed at least through 2019.  They also have Avi Garcia and Adam Eaton under control until at least 2019.  

With one of the best pitching prospects in baseball knocking on the door.  

Even if the Sox are in a better position, it isn't by that much. They have great talent signed long term for very team friendly rates. Arrieta, Rizzo and Castro together will make less than John Danks. Also they are also all signed at least through 2018. They also have Soler, Baez and Arismendy til 2020. Kris Bryant and Addison Russell to come.

You can do this with any team.

I don't understand why White Sox fans have this issue, they cannot enjoy Chicago baseball.

[🏀]

Really?  Then why did the Red Sox offer 20 million less than the Cubs?  They must think that money means something.  There is no salary cap, but teams still operate within the constraints of a budget. 

Why did the Giants offer more than the Cubs?

Unless you're small market, it really doesn't matter.

[Lennys Tap]

And that will last until Scherzer signs his contract and then Scherzer's contract will probably get passed when Price signs next year and maybe when Zimmerman signs.

Given the lack of pitching in the Cubs system and on their current roster they can either sign a top tier FA pitcher for the going rate or dish out top tier prospects.  Maybe they do both, but they can't turn the corner in the rebuilding without beefing up their rotation.  The Cubs hardly have any money committed to their future payroll, so they can definitely take the risk and "overspend".

This is true. The Cubs are among a handful of teams who can afford to overspend. The Sox don't have that luxury.

I would say that both side of town should be ecstatic with the off season. For now, they're the two biggest winners in MLB.

[🏀]

This is true. The Cubs are among a handful of teams who can afford to overspend. The Sox don't have that luxury.

I would say that both side of town should be ecstatic with the off season. For now, they're the two biggest winners in MLB.

+1

I'm jacked about baseball season, both sides of town.

[LAZER]

This is true. The Cubs are among a handful of teams who can afford to overspend. The Sox don't have that luxury.

I would say that both side of town should be ecstatic with the off season. For now, they're the two biggest winners in MLB.

Gammons was on MLB network the other night talking about the summer in Chicago when both sides are competitive and it made me all warm and fuzzy.

[buckchuckler]

Even if the Sox are in a better position, it isn't by that much. They have great talent signed long term for very team friendly rates. Arrieta, Rizzo and Castro together will make less than John Danks. Also they are also all signed at least through 2018. They also have Soler, Baez and Arismendy til 2020. Kris Bryant and Addison Russell to come.

You can do this with any team.

I don't understand why White Sox fans have this issue, they cannot enjoy Chicago baseball.

OK well, I never said the Sox were in a better position.  And I definitely never said anything completely silly like they are in a position 100x better.  That is really the big difference.

And Arrieta (really great young talent?  He is gonna be 29 with one good year to his credit.) Rizzo and Castro will make about 15 million (depending on where Arrieta ends in arb) and that is actually more than Danks (minimally, but none the less, and only 2 more seasons of that contract)

And while you can do that with any team, you can't say it referring to a Cy Young caliber pitcher and an MVP calibler hitter.  

And really?  This is an issue with White Sox fans?  Yeah, the Cub fans here have done nothing to belittle the Sox.

[buckchuckler]

Gammons was on MLB network the other night talking about the summer in Chicago when both sides are competitive and it made me all warm and fuzzy.

I agree, like I said, it will be great to have a fun baseball season in Chicago.

[buckchuckler]

Nevermind...

[🏀]

OK well, I never said the Sox were in a better position.  And I definitely never said anything completely silly like they are in a position 100x better.  And Arrieta (really great young talent?  He is gonna be 29 with one good year to his credit.) Rizzo and Castro will make about 15 million (depending on where Arrieta ends in arb) and that is actually more than Danks.  

And while you can do that with any team, you can't say it referring to a Cy Young caliber pitcher and an MVP calibler hitter.  

And really?  This is an issue with White Sox fans?  Yeah, the Cub fans here have done nothing to belittle the Sox.  

I'm saying you can do it with *almost* any team, that's what is great about baseball. Sorry Brewers.

Rizzo makes $5 million and Castro makes $6 million. That leaves $3.25 million for Arrieta before eclipsing Danks. Arrieta finished 9th in CY voting. Rizzo and Abreu had remarkably similar seasons. Rizzo is just younger and has a better contract.

This whole thread was Sox fans belittling Cubs, so not sure where you're getting that from.

[buckchuckler]

Exactly....and these comments coming from fans of a team that finished worse than the Cubs in 2013 and with the same record as the Cubs in 2014 all while the Cubs were in the largest teardown and rebuild in franchise history.  Sorry, but the Cubs are in a 100x better spot than the White Sox regardless of record this coming season.  

Decent farm?

Really?  All Sox fans belittling? Well then, wow did I misinterpret this statement.  

[🏀]

Serious question for Sox fans that I've been tossing around.

Will Samardzija get signed long term? We know he wants $20m+, does Hahn get him that money?

If Rodon comes out, Samardzija is the third starter.

I just don't see him getting that money from anywhere, maybe I'm crazy though. Maybe he'll change his tune about free agency.

[🏀]

Really?  All Sox fans belittling? Well then, wow did I misinterpret this statement. 

I really wouldn't take offense to that.

[buckchuckler]

Serious question for Sox fans that I've been tossing around.

Will Samardzija get signed long term? We know he wants $20m+, does Hahn get him that money?

If Rodon comes out, Samardzija is the third starter.

I just don't see him getting that money from anywhere, maybe I'm crazy though. Maybe he'll change his tune about free agency.

Yeah, that is a tough question.  He certainly doesn't seem like 20M per year would be worth it.  The odd thing is that the Sox need him because he is RH.  Sale, Quintana and Rodon are all lefties.  

It seems like the price of a really good starting pitcher (a 1B,2A type) is going to that 20 million range.  I guess I'd try to get him at an annual value around 18-19 million, which seems crazy, but like I said earlier, the price to play is getting seriously ridiculous.  

If he has a year this year like last year, he will probably command a deal similar to what Lester just got.  I have a hard time seeing the Sox go 5 years (or more) with a pitcher, that hasn't been their MO, and when they do, they typically regret it, like with Danks.   

[buckchuckler]

I really wouldn't take offense to that.

I didn't.  Just felt the need to point out how completely ridiculous it was.  And really, what was the point of that statement if not to belittle where the Sox are? 

[buckchuckler]

I'm saying you can do it with *almost* any team, that's what is great about baseball. Sorry Brewers.

Rizzo makes $5 million and Castro makes $6 million. That leaves $3.25 million for Arrieta before eclipsing Danks. Arrieta finished 9th in CY voting. Rizzo and Abreu had remarkably similar seasons. Rizzo is just younger and has a better contract.

This whole thread was Sox fans belittling Cubs, so not sure where you're getting that from.

Arrieta is being predicted to make about 4.1 in arb.  And I didn't say a thing about Rizzo.  Not sure why you felt the need to defend him.  

He is definitely an elite 1B.  Possibly the best in the NL.  But his season wasn't "remarkably close" to Abreu's. Abreu was better in just about every category.  With significant advantages in 2B, RBI, BA, OBP, and SLG.    

[MerrittsMustache]

Read the comment, I am not saying we are 100x better than you.  The Sox very well will have a better record and be a better team than the Cubs next year.  I am saying Cubs are in a better spot than White Sox at this juncture and in the near future.  They have the best farm system in all of baseball, again I understand its unproven, but some of them will pan out.  They are ripe with cash to spend moving forward.  You have arguably the most unique stadium and setting for a ballpark in all of baseball with an owner who is investing $500+ million of his own $ to improve all of that.  It is going to do wonders to the allure of Wrigley and the neighborhood in the coming years.

I am not trashing the White Sox and saying Cubs are 100x better, I am just saying I think the Cubs are in a better position as an entire franchise, that is all.

Quite the contrary. What the Ricketts are doing to Wrigley is ruining the uniqueness of it. They're basically spending $500M to make Wrigley just like every other ballpark, except for the unstable concourses which are being ignored in favor of a ridiculous Jumbotron and oh-so-precious revenue streams.

[🏀]

Arrieta is being predicted to make about 4.1 in arb.  And I didn't say a thing about Rizzo.  Not sure why you felt the need to defend him.  

He is definitely an elite 1B.  Possibly the best in the NL.  But his season wasn't "remarkably close" to Abreu's. Abreu was better in just about every category.  With significant advantages in 2B, RBI, BA, OBP, and SLG.    

I'm not defending Rizzo, just comparing him to 'MVP-caliber' Abreu. Let's compare apples to apples, Fangraphs has Rizzo 0.3 WAR better last season than Abreu. Baseball Reference has Abreu at a 0.4 WAR better than Rizzo.

It's extremely close.


Samninja won't get Lester money, but he's been so greedy with his quotes he probably thinks he can.

[🏀]

Quite the contrary. What the Ricketts are doing to Wrigley is ruining the uniqueness of it. They're basically spending $500M to make Wrigley just like every other ballpark, except for the unstable concourses which are being ignored in favor of a ridiculous Jumbotron and oh-so-precious revenue streams.

What?

[GGGG]

Quite the contrary. What the Ricketts are doing to Wrigley is ruining the uniqueness of it. They're basically spending $500M to make Wrigley just like every other ballpark, except for the unstable concourses which are being ignored in favor of a ridiculous Jumbotron and oh-so-precious revenue streams.

Something tells me that most Cub fans wouldn't care one bit about the former uniqueness of Wrigley Field if it meant winning a World Series.

[🏀]

Something tells me that most Cub fans wouldn't care one bit about the former uniqueness of Wrigley Field if it meant winning a World Series.

Careful, there's a lot of mouthbreathing Cubs fans out there.

Regardless, the Wrigley renovation is quite the transformation which retains much of the uniqueness. I was skeptical at first and preferred a new park, but having seen details, I'm quite impressed.

[buckchuckler]

I'm not defending Rizzo, just comparing him to 'MVP-caliber' Abreu. Let's compare apples to apples, Fangraphs has Rizzo 0.3 WAR better last season than Abreu. Baseball Reference has Abreu at a 0.4 WAR better than Rizzo.

It's extremely close.


Samninja won't get Lester money, but he's been so greedy with his quotes he probably thinks he can.

I know they are close.  As I said, Rizzo is likely the best 1B in the NL.  And Abreu finished 4th in MVP voting.  So I don't know why you feel the need to be snotty about it. 

And WAR is not the only metric that should be looked at.  It isn't the end all be all.  It is part of the equation.  But that is a conversation for another day. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Careful, there's a lot of mouthbreathing Cubs fans out there.

Regardless, the Wrigley renovation is quite the transformation which retains much of the uniqueness. I was skeptical at first and preferred a new park, but having seen details, I'm quite impressed.

Have you seen the renderings? Remodeled Soldier Field looks better.

If they were going to ruin what made Wrigley so unique then they should have just built a new stadium. I'd much rather have that than have the half-Wrigley/half-Wisconsin Dells that they're creating.