John Dawson

[jesmu84]

With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.

And what if he's not injured. And he doesn't transfer? Ners, and now you, have totally cornered yourselves with your narrow views. there could lliterally be many more possibilities for why he isn't playing. But because you're convinced John is so good, it must be everyone else that's screwed up. None of us hate Dawson or think he's a terrible player. We just understand there's more possibilities

The problem with trying to have a discussion with you guys is the same with peoplle who believe the moon landing was faked. The complete closed minded views you choose make it impossible for you to even comprehend Any other possibilities. You'll always come up with some theory or rationale for why whatever evidenced is presented reflects your view. You'll never believe you're just wrong unless wojo or Dawson told you personally (and maybe not even then)

[BallBoy]

LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:

Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.

So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games.  Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently.  Two coaches.  Two different opinions.  Hmm.

As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was.  3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.

As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane),  suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length.  Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM.  Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue.  Much better than Jamail Jones.  Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.

How many conference championships does Newbill have?

How many sweet 16s and elite 8s?

How many NCAA tournament games has Newbill won? Played?

How many NBA games has he played in?

The answer is none to all of them.

Newbill is a shooter on a bad team. He shot 14-33 in one game. Points scored isn't the only measure of success and if Newbill would have stayed he probably wouldn't have gotten as much PT. Would he have helped last year probably but I don't think you can reasonably say that he was better then the best player on an elite 8 team.

[BallBoy]

Saved by the Mods who shut that thread down before voting officially closed.  Sorry Ball Boy - I'll still be around, and I'm sure I'll still disagree with you a ton.  Happy Thanksgiving.

That's good. I voted no. Your arguments only bring more credibility to my analysis.

[Norm]

And what if he's not injured. And he doesn't transfer? Ners, and now you, have totally cornered yourselves with your narrow views. there could lliterally be many more possibilities for why he isn't playing. But because you're convinced John is so good, it must be everyone else that's screwed up. None of us hate Dawson or think he's a terrible player. We just understand there's more possibilities

The problem with trying to have a discussion with you guys is the same with peoplle who believe the moon landing was faked. The complete closed minded views you choose make it impossible for you to even comprehend Any other possibilities. You'll always come up with some theory or rationale for why whatever evidenced is presented reflects your view. You'll never believe you're just wrong unless wojo or Dawson told you personally (and maybe not even then)

Well, I don't know if I've cornered myself with my narrow views, as I think I've posted maybe twice about Dawson in the last year. I'm just trying to figure out why he'd be chained to the bench in games where we have looked horrible, even if just for a change of pace or to try something different. I've never really argued that Dawson is "so good", but I do think Dawson showed some good things last year for a freshman, especially in the Georgetown game, so was just wondering what was going on. And to lump me in with Ners is kinda funny, as he has about 2,000 posts on Dawson and I have maybe 3-4 total on the same topic.

By the way, I won the bet we made last December over where MU would finish in the Big East last season. You took the top half and I took the bottom half. I believe the wager was 2 12 packs of a local brew.

[Nevada233]

Dawson is not injured.....

[jesmu84]

Well, I don't know if I've cornered myself with my narrow views, as I think I've posted maybe twice about Dawson in the last year. I'm just trying to figure out why he'd be chained to the bench in games where we have looked horrible, even if just for a change of pace or to try something different. I've never really argued that Dawson is "so good", but I do think Dawson showed some good things last year for a freshman, especially in the Georgetown game, so was just wondering what was going on. And to lump me in with Ners is kinda funny, as he has about 2,000 posts on Dawson and I have maybe 3-4 total on the same topic.

By the way, I won the bet we made last December over where MU would finish in the Big East last season. You took the top half and I took the bottom half. I believe the wager was 2 12 packs of a local brew.

When you say that the only things that could make sense to you are him being injured or he told wojo he's transferring, you're limiting yourself to only two reasons why he wouldn't be playing, so yes, you are cornering yourself. Because you're stating that you don't believe anything else other than those 2 reasons are why Dawson couldn't be playing right now.

My apologies for lumping you in with Ners. I must admit, I don't follow along with who posts how much about each topic. Having said that, I get annoyed that people are somehow not able to be open to the possibility that Dawson just might not be good enough right now to grab minutes from the people ahead of him.

True statement on the bet. Totally forgot. Let me know your preferred type (IPA, porter, etc) and address and I'll get those to you.

[jesmu84]

Dawson is not injured.....

Good to know. I hope he stays at MU, improves, and is a positive contributor to our team on and off the court for the next 3 years.

[NersEllenson]

How many conference championships does Newbill have?

How many sweet 16s and elite 8s?

How many NCAA tournament games has Newbill won? Played?

How many NBA games has he played in?

The answer is none to all of them.

Newbill is a shooter on a bad team. He shot 14-33 in one game. Points scored isn't the only measure of success and if Newbill would have stayed he probably wouldn't have gotten as much PT. Would he have helped last year probably but I don't think you can reasonably say that he was better then the best player on an elite 8 team.

14-33 - Translates to Vander's career shooting mark of 42.9% - so if you are going to diss Newbill for shooting 14-33, at least make sure it's worse than Vander's career.  Newbill is shooting 48.5% right now for this season.  For his career he shoots 45% from the Field.

Of course all things are not equal, and Newbill hasn't been a part of very good teams.  Yet if you are a coach, and you face a team with limited talent - but the opposition has one good player - do you not try to take away that good player?  

Did Robert Jackson not benefit from playing with D-Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak?  Did each of those guys also not benefit from playing with each other? Point is it is HARDER to perform when the talent around you is subpar.

The Big 10 isn't a slouch league at all, and last season Newbill averaged 17.8ppg on 45% shooting, and averages 5 rebounds per game with a 123.9 rating.  Vander's BEST year at MU he averaged 14.7ppg on 45% shooting with 3 rebounds per game - and an O-Rating of 104.2.62 assists for 36 steals for the whole year.

Hmm - A guy can be a better player, but plays on a worse team.  Doesn't make the other player "better."

[BallBoy]

My point wasn't percentage it was volume. Sometimes when you are the best player on a bad team you benefit because you get to shot 33 times a game. When you are on a good team you only get 10 shots a game. The only reason you can claim he is a better player is because of his gaudy numbers.

If DJ is better, what do the NBA draft experts say?  Right now, he goes undrafted even after all of those points against bad teams.

In the Big Ten they get 7-8 teams in every year. That meant he only needed to carry his team to the top 3/4 of the conference to get in. In Vander's last year he played in the Best Conference and he was the leader of the team that won it.

[NersEllenson]

My point wasn't percentage it was volume. Sometimes when you are the best player on a bad team you benefit because you get to shot 33 times a game. When you are on a good team you only get 10 shots a game. The only reason you can claim he is a better player is because of his gaudy numbers.

If DJ is better, what do the NBA draft experts say?  Right now, he goes undrafted even after all of those points against bad teams.

In the Big Ten they get 7-8 teams in every year. That meant he only needed to carry his team to the top 3/4 of the conference to get in. In Vander's last year he played in the Best Conference and he was the leader of the team that won it.

Fair points.  And I actually had his O-Rating from his Junior year wrong with the stats I listed - it actually was only 108.3 as a junior - so not much better than Vander's.  (What I listed was his current O-Rating for this season.)  O-Rating is a measure of offensive efficiency and shot volume is calculated into that..

Vander had a very nice Junior year - no one would deny that.  Newbill did too.   Nonetheless, I think Newbill stands a very good chance of making an NBA team and getting drafted.  But, we'll see.

[brandx]

NBA scouts would seem to have a different opinion.

[NersEllenson]

NBA scouts would seem to have a different opinion.

At present, yes.  I suspect Newbill will finish averaging close to 20ppg in the Big Ten on efficient scoring and be a first team Big 10 player.

Historically, there aren't a whole lot of 20ppg guards out of the Big 10 that have NBA size that don't get drafted.

Lots of basketball left to be played.

[GGGG]

I thought Ners agreed to ban himself?  

It was all a ploy for attention anyway.

[brandx]

At present, yes.  I suspect Newbill will finish averaging close to 20ppg in the Big Ten on efficient scoring and be a first team Big 10 player.

Historically, there aren't a whole lot of 20ppg guards out of the Big 10 that have NBA size that don't get drafted.

Lots of basketball left to be played.

With the volume of shots that he puts up, 20 ppg isn't gonna impress the NBA scouts.

[Nevada233]

With the volume of shots that he puts up, 20 ppg isn't gonna impress the NBA scouts.

He would need about 27.5 ppg.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/ryjackson32/status/538159722021801984

[VegasWarrior77]

Just saw those tweets.  Announcement coming...?  For those not on twitter:

Ryan Jackson ‏@ryjackson32  4h4 hours ago Florida, US
Just noticed, John Dawson isn't dressed. Dress shoes and pants. Hmmm.... #mubb

Marquette Nation ‏@mubbnation  4h4 hours ago
i smell a transfer a'brewin RT @ryjackson32: Just noticed, John Dawson isn't dressed. Dress shoes and pants. Hmmm.... #mubb

[Nevada233]

uh oh....

[AZMarqfan]

I don't post much, but read a ton.  Why would the team have him travel to Florida and stay in the team hotel if he were transferring?  I'm guessing it's more of an academic issue or team policy violation. 

[PGsHeroes32]

He looked pretty fired up during a GT timeout in the 1st half after a MU run

[Nevada233]

I don't post much, but read a ton.  Why would the team have him travel to Florida and stay in the team hotel if he were transferring?  I'm guessing it's more of an academic issue or team policy violation. 

The Semester isnt over till Dec 14-15th. If it were achedemic his grades wouldn't be in until then also the team has tutors home and on the road so im pretty sure its not grades. Plus hes a high character kid that is doing good in class. If it were a team rule violation we'd know by now.

A classmate tweeted.

https://twitter.com/the_ryanbrennan/status/538168706787188736

@The_RyanBrennan: @Jacob_Born John Dawson deserved an A+ in that class. Actually put the most work in and was the best of everyone

So its either an "encouraged" transfer via no playing time or Wojo just isn't gonna let him play this year because he feels hes not ready or hes coming back in a package deal with Luke Fischer. Lol

The semester ends next month. If he stays or goes we will see what happens. . .

[madtownwarrior]

at home games this year it looked like Dawson had "street" shoes on but he did not - they were black, shiny basketball shoes...   maybe the tweeter made a mistake...

[Gloccedandloaded]

Our warmups last night looked like pajamas. Dawson was warming up before the game and actually shooting pretty well. I don't think he'd be doing that in dress shoes but I wasn't paying attention to his feet. I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man's shoes?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

NVM

[Dr. Blackheart]

Our warmups last night looked like pajamas. Dawson was warming up before the game and actually shooting pretty well. I don't think he'd be doing that in dress shoes but I wasn't paying attention to his feet. I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man's shoes?

You can look at the photos on go.marquette and he is in the warm-ups. As I overheard from a female near me: "Doesn't Marquette know grey warmups don't go with blue uniforms? Bad look."