MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU62 on November 26, 2014, 08:58:47 AM
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I have not noticed that much being covered on John Dawson's situation. He is not playing at all on a nine member team - even when two of the players were injured. Is he leaving at the semester? Is he being red shirted? Is he injured? Is it that he can't play defense because that is the same deficiency other players have. I have liked John's play last year. I thought he was very good distributing the ball. I still remember Dvante saying he thought John was the best point guard. I am sad he is not playing.
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I have not noticed that much being covered on John Dawson's situation.
You probably should read the threads a little closer. I think the consensus is that he simply isn't as good as the players in front of him. No idea if he is leaving at semester or the end of the year. A lot of speculation at this point, but certainly nothing definitive.
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I have notice some speculation on the threads but very little. That is why I have asked the question. Thanks for your curt remark.
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I wasn't trying to be curt. I understand that threads get off topic and stuff gets buried, but there has been a lot of talk about Dawson and I simply tried to summarize it for you.
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Just on sheer numbers, you'd think he'd see the court. It's not like he was a train wreck last year. I never thought he was as good as some on this board, but he didn't look out of place. Has to be more to the story.
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Just a note, that it is impossible for him to redshirt, since he did play in the Tennessee Martin game.
If he were injured there's a possibility of a hardship waiver being granted, but there's no indication that he's injured.
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I wasn't trying to be curt. I understand that threads get off topic and stuff gets buried, but there has been a lot of talk about Dawson and I simply tried to summarize it for you.
A Scoop newby legitimately reached out for insight but you couldn't resist starting your response with, "You probably should read the threads a little closer."
Had you simply wanted to summarize, you would have skipped that admonishment. "Curt" probably was a kind description.
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nm
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Just on sheer numbers, you'd think he'd see the court. It's not like he was a train wreck last year. I never thought he was as good as some on this board, but he didn't look out of place. Has to be more to the story.
Has he been slapping fives with his teammates?
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A Scoop newby legitimately reached out for insight but you couldn't resist starting your response with, "You probably should read the threads a little closer."
Had you simply wanted to summarize, you would have skipped that admonishment. "Curt" probably was a kind description.
+1
Guy is a clown.
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The only conclusion I can draw is this:
Wojo sees a logjam at the 2 on the current roster and next year's - prefers Duane at the 2, there's JJJ, there's Cohen. You have Cheatham coming and Nick N in next year's class. Nick N - from what I've seen and heard is a very similar player to Dawson - a combo guard. He's not a burner, but a solid shooter and distributor as is Dawson.
What all of that adds up to, along with Dawson not getting any PT, in my connecting the dots - is that Wojo is trying to essentially encourage a transfer - to free a scholarship to go out and recruit a pure PG. There is little else that makes sense as far as how hard Dawson has been nailed to the bench on a thin roster, where none of the guards have established themselves yet as absolute must haves to be on the court. They are all being given a chance to show what they can do - Dawson? Not so much.
I'd at least hope Wojo is being transparent with Dawson and his family as far as what's going on - be stand up enough guy to say: We are overloaded at the 2 guard position and we feel it would be in John's best interests to look elsewhere.
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The only conclusion I can draw is this:
Wojo sees a logjam at the 2 on the current roster and next year's - prefers Duane at the 2, there's JJJ, there's Cohen. You have Cheatham coming and Nick N in next year's class. Nick N - from what I've seen and heard is a very similar player to Dawson - a combo guard. He's not a burner, but a solid shooter and distributor as is Dawson.
What all of that adds up to, along with Dawson not getting any PT, in my connecting the dots - is that Wojo is trying to essentially encourage a transfer - to free a scholarship to go out and recruit a pure PG. There is little else that makes sense as far as how hard Dawson has been nailed to the bench on a thin roster, where none of the guards have established themselves yet as absolute must haves to be on the court. They've are all being given a chance to show what they can do - Dawson? Not so much.
I'd at least hope Wojo is being transparent with Dawson and his family as far as what's going on - be stand up enough guy to say: We are overloaded at the 2 guard position and we feel it would be in John's best interests to look elsewhere.
I was under the impression we viewed Dawson as a 1.
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With 2 guards coming in next year, the playing time for Dawson might be nil going forward, is he trying to run Dawson off? I do not know. Figuring there going to play John and Wally
at the forwards next year, with Sandy and Deonte backing up, that might might move JuJann to the 2 guard, which then that might make him the 5th wheel? Why would he stay? MU
really needs either a JC point or JC forward to add to the team. Nick and Cheatham will see time next year, thoughts?
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I was under the impression we viewed Dawson as a 1.
The current staff sees him as a 2. And, I'd probably agree that is his best position, yet I feel he is capable of playing the 1 as well - but again, he's not a burner or a guy who is going to be great at breaking someone down off the dribble. But, he sees the court very well, is good in transition, has very good anticipation skills and feel for the game, and that was evident last year. There are PG's who can be successful as non-burners, but it is very nice to have a guy who can get in the lane at will as a PG.
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The current staff sees him as a zero.
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Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.
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The current staff sees him as a 2. And, I'd probably agree that is his best position, yet I feel he is capable of playing the 1 as well - but again, he's not a burner or a guy who is going to be great at breaking someone down off the dribble. But, he sees the court very well, is good in transition, has very good anticipation skills and feel for the game, and that was evident last year. There are PG's who can be successful as non-burners, but it is very nice to have a guy who can get in the lane at will as a PG.
I suspect wojo does not share your analysis of his skills.
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Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.
Ding ding ding!
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Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.
I don't know if it's as "sinister-sounding" as trying to run a guy off, but Wojo probably wouldn't be crushed if Dawson looks at this as a sign he should leave.
I certainly would think that unless Dawson loves-loves-loves the overall Marquette experience, he would seriously consider going to a school that will employ his services as a basketball player.
We haven't seen enough of him to be certain to say he can't play at this level, but two coaches now have indicated as much. He'd probably do well at a low-major, maybe even the right mid-major.
Of course, we could have said the same about Juan when he was a soph, and he indeed did almost transfer, and now look at him.
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Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.
Nice. Answer a question:
Do you feel there is a logjam at the 2 guard position this year/next and a shortage at the 1?
If so, does it not make sense to potentially try to clear a slot at the 2?
Nonetheless, Wojo seems to have come to the conclusion that of his current guards Dawson is the most "expendable," and therefore not as good as the other underclassmen. I can see where he on the surface has drawn that conclusion given that JJJ and Cohen all have more length than Dawson. Duane more quickness. Yet, JJJ and Cohen have been wildly inconsistent thus far and are being given opportunity.
At some point Wojo will have to let go of the whole notion that Derrick is a valuable contributor to the team as a player on the floor. All of his minutes should be given to Duane, Sandy, JJJ and Dawson. He's not the future. And he isn't going to help in the present. Rebuild mode, get the young guys ready - and in so doing they'll like achieve more by February than if he continues to ride Derrick.
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The current staff sees him as a 2. And, I'd probably agree that is his best position, yet I feel he is capable of playing the 1 as well - but again, he's not a burner or a guy who is going to be great at breaking someone down off the dribble. But, he sees the court very well, is good in transition, has very good anticipation skills and feel for the game, and that was evident last year. There are PG's who can be successful as non-burners, but it is very nice to have a guy who can get in the lane at will as a PG.
John Dawson is a very skilled basketball player. He's far and away better than anyone on this board has ever been or ever dreamed of being. However, at this point it's becoming clear that he's just not a high-major talent. I commend him for taking on the challenge of playing at Marquette and I hope I'm wrong and he proves to be a valuable member of this team, but he likely would have been better off (from a PT standpoint) choosing Wyoming or New Mexico State.
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At some point Wojo will have to let go of the whole notion that Derrick is a valuable contributor to the team as a player on the floor.
Like it or not (I don't, and my perceptive brain has an inkling that you really don't), it is possible that "some point" might not arrive until the spring!
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I do find it weird that Dawson hasn't seen the floor at all, especially considering the level of competition we have played and the short bench. Then again, we haven't exactly been playing with any sort of comfortable lead (that is if have one to begin with) where a third string PG can have significant minutes.
I do believe Dawson can contribute to this team, even if it's only 7-10 minutes a game.
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He's gone. He should go back home to NM and play at UNM or NM State. Not horrible programs, and probably more in-line with his talent level.
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He's gone. He should go back home to NM and play at UNM or NM State. Not horrible programs, and probably more in-line with his talent level.
Those are both good BB schools. NM handed it to MU last year.
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When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???
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When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???
No universal love exists ..... merely the battle consists of those who are enamored with offense vs. those who know that defense is going wins you games.
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The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.
My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer
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When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???
There is not one person on this board that loves Derrick Wilson's game. The vast majority see more value in Wilson's game to Dawson's based on the evidence we've seen to date. We also know that both Buzz and Wojo severely limited Dawson's minutes and they have far more evidence than we do. Hence, Derrick must be better than Dawson
Ners' answer is that Dawson is a 2 and there are too many players to allow Dawson minutes. Perhaps, this is correct. However we have at least four players on this roster that have or can play PG: Du Wilson, De Wilson, Matt Carlino, and John Dawson. We have at least four players on this roster that have or can play shooting guard: Matt Carlino, Du Wilson, Sandy Cohen, and John Dawson. Dawson can't get minutes at either position even with 1 being an apparent need. If he was servicable he would get minutes, because he is not the coaching staff knows something Ners does not....unless Ners is better than Wojo at evaluating talent.
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The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.
My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer
You forgot our love for his 5 fouls a game.
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Nonetheless, Wojo seems to have come to the conclusion that of his current guards Dawson is the most "expendable," and therefore not as good as the other underclassmen. I can see where he on the surface has drawn that conclusion given that JJJ and Cohen all have more length than Dawson. Duane more quickness. Yet, JJJ and Cohen have been wildly inconsistent thus far and are being given opportunity.
At some point Wojo will have to let go of the whole notion that Derrick is a valuable contributor to the team as a player on the floor. All of his minutes should be given to Duane, Sandy, JJJ and Dawson. He's not the future. And he isn't going to help in the present. Rebuild mode, get the young guys ready - and in so doing they'll like achieve more by February than if he continues to ride Derrick.
Agreed on all of this. And my post had nothing to do with derrick. But I do believe Duane and carlino should be 1/2 at the PG.
My post was that you seem to be finding every reason in the proverbial book to explain away why Dawson isn't playing other than the most obvious and perands the simplest - he just isn't good enough yet. I hope he will be in the future. I hope he stays all 4 years. There are numerous examples in college bball of a guy sitting on the bench as an underclassmen and then contributing later on. He doesn't have to transfer, that's a personal choice a lot of the time. I hope he doesn't.
When you say things like " the only conclusion".. really? the only conclusion is another convoluted train of thought? Why can't he just be not good enough yet? Or, At least, can you explain why you appear to be so narrow-minded as to believe that's the ONLY possible conclusion at this point?
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I do find it weird that Dawson hasn't seen the floor at all, especially considering the level of competition we have played and the short bench. Then again, we haven't exactly been playing with any sort of comfortable lead (that is if have one to begin with) where a third string PG can have significant minutes.
I do believe Dawson can contribute to this team, even if it's only 7-10 minutes a game.
Short bench? I find it ironic that this keeps being mentioned this season. Last season, and others past, when buzz was line changing and playing 9-10 guys, it was pointed out repeatedly that most good teams have a short 7-8 man rotation. So now we have a rotation Like that and it's "short" and people are confused why we aren't playing everyone.
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Nonetheless, Wojo seems to have come to the conclusion that of his current guards Dawson is the most "expendable," and therefore not as good as the other underclassmen. I can see where he on the surface has drawn that conclusion given that JJJ and Cohen all have more length than Dawson. Duane more quickness. Yet, JJJ and Cohen have been wildly inconsistent thus far and are being given opportunity.
"On the surface?" Well shame on Wojo for not checking with you to get the more in-depth answer. ::)
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The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.
My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer
I agree. I have never been so excited for a player to graduate and leave the program.
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Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.
Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it?
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We have at least four players on this roster that have or can play shooting guard: Matt Carlino, Du Wilson, Sandy Cohen, and John Dawson.
JJJ also can play shooting guard, and that might be his main position before all is said and done at Marquette. Heck, on some teams with size, Juan and Deonte might be used as shooting guards!
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I agree. I have never been so excited for a player to graduate and leave the program.
Yup. Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace. Begone! ::)
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Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it?
Because the poll was nothing more than an ego trip. He wanted to see how many pages there could be of people just talking about him.
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Yup. Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace. Begone! ::)
That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."
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That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."
You are pathetic. Go root for someone else please.
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I have not noticed that much being covered on John Dawson's situation. He is not playing at all on a nine member team - even when two of the players were injured. Is he leaving at the semester? Is he being red shirted? Is he injured? Is it that he can't play defense because that is the same deficiency other players have. I have liked John's play last year. I thought he was very good distributing the ball. I still remember Dvante saying he thought John was the best point guard. I am sad he is not playing.
If we look at the simple answer it is pretty apparent that MU runs about three deep at PG and at SG.
PG - Wilson, Wilson, Carlino
SG - Wilson, Carlino, and JJJ
The players aren't listed in any order. In the game that Dawson did get time Wilson was hurt which indicates playing four deep is not in the cards unless needed. For Dawson to get time, he needs to move up in the depth chart. If he can play either position better than those three he would be put into that position. since he is not then it tells me he is not better at PG or SG then the respective 3 players at each position.
If we take the conspiracy theory, Wojo and Buzz were trying to throw the season for personal reasons. In addition, john lost all PG skills he displayed last year because the staff sees him as only a 2G.
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That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."
Ya instead we should have a team full of rapists, drug dealers, and people getting into off court problems because as long as we're winning its worth it! Maybe you're young or just don't have a good memory but in the span of two years we made ESPN's homepage for a bunch of off the court issues and Id say none of them were worth the winning... Maybe if they'd brought us a Final four Id be singing a different tune.
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Yup. Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace. Begone! ::)
Couldn't agree more. DW has been nothing but a great representative of MU. Is it maddening that he can't hit free throws? Of course. Does it warrant the venom that is cast his way on a nearly daily basis? Not even close. It is a bit mind boggling how people are willing to talk about student athletes that are representing our University.
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It's amazing the vitriol that has been cast at Derrick over the past couple years. He may not be what everyone wanted but we'd have been even worse off without him.
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Yup. Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace. Begone! ::)
Bingo!
The coaches allocating the minutes have been Buzz and now Wojo, and Derrick has been working his tail off to do whatever is asked of him. Despite this, Derrick has been the butt of more obnoxious, disrespectful comments here than any MU player in recent memory - from wishing he'd get injured to looking forward to when he's gone. Rip Buzz, rip Wojo, but Derrick is a great kid who deserves our respect and admiration.
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I have a 19 year old daughter. I only hope she brings home someone with as much class, with as much strength of character, with as much leadership as Derrick Wilson. The fact that I can beat him at HORSE is just gravy. ;D But seriously, to constantly rag on this guy, who has been a great teammate, who has lead, who has only done what was asked by two different coaches......says way more about the haters than it does about him.
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Or, Dawson loves his experience in the MU culture and accepts his role. Every team has players like this. Rosters usually have 12 - 15 players and the bottom 4 or 5 are not going to play much, at least in meaningful games, and they accept this.
Players at this level know where they stand compared to their competition on the team. Most are able to accept that. Just looking back at posts from John's dad, I think the overall experience is important to John and his family.
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Has he been slapping fives with his teammates?
I see what you did there.
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Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it?
Saved by the Mods who shut that thread down before voting officially closed. Sorry Ball Boy - I'll still be around, and I'm sure I'll still disagree with you a ton. Happy Thanksgiving.
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It's amazing the vitriol that has been cast at Derrick over the past couple years. He may not be what everyone wanted but we'd have been even worse off without him.
You can like the kid, but you don't have to like the player.
And no, we wouldn't have been worse off without him. You are talking about historically bad play for his position.
And, why on God's green earth Wojo is playing him alongside either Duane or Carlino is ridiculous. This continued notion of Derrick's defense being so elite is a farce. He got blown by repeatedly the other night against NJIT. He rarely gets steals. He is a complete liability on the offensive end - his deficiencies are so incredible on that end, that he would have to be the most elite defender in all of college basketball history to offset the horrendous liabilities he brings on the offensive end.
I'll give Wojo the benefit of the doubt for now, but his usage of Derrick is a big red flag with regard to his coaching acumen.
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I'll give Wojo the benefit of the doubt for now, but his usage of Derrick is a big red flag with regard to his coaching acumen.
Didn't feel like answering my question?
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That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."
When you're reading tower912's post, please remember to read his signature line.
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I'll give Wojo the benefit of the doubt for now, but his usage of Derrick is a big red flag with regard to his coaching acumen.
Dear Ners:
I am so grateful you are giving me the benefit of the doubt for now. If not, I'd probably be on a ledge contemplating whether to jump or to just end it even more quickly with a gun.
Given your level of basketball experience, I can't believe I already have gone this far into my coaching career without consulting you for advice. Please send along your contact information so I can run my player rotations, my offense, my defense and my inbound plays past you.
Buzz told me you were instrumental in the team going S16-S16-E8, so I apologize to the entire Marquette community for not getting in touch with you sooner. To hell with using Coach K as a sounding board - from now on, it's Ners or nuthin'!!
Talk to you soon. Very soon. Because the one thing I can't risk is losing the benefit of the doubt from Ners.
Sincerely,
Wojo
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I agree. I have never been so excited for a player to graduate and leave the program.
Why be a d1ck about it. Ya, he struggles. We all know that. He's also been a captain 2 years in a row.
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Dear Ners:
I am so grateful you are giving me the benefit of the doubt for now. If not, I'd probably be on a ledge contemplating whether to jump or to just end it even more quickly with a gun.
Given your level of basketball experience, I can't believe I already have gone this far into my coaching career without consulting you for advice. Please send along your contact information so I can run my player rotations, my offense, my defense and my inbound plays past you.
Buzz told me you were instrumental in the team going S16-S16-E8, so I apologize to the entire Marquette community for not getting in touch with you sooner. To hell with using Coach K as a sounding board - from now on, it's Ners or nuthin'!!
Talk to you soon. Very soon. Because the one thing I can't risk is losing the benefit of the doubt from Ners.
Sincerely,
Wojo
Dear Wojo,
Thanks for your note. I understand you are new to Marquette, and weren't closely following the program all of last season. No doubt you've had time to observe guys in practice these last 6 weeks, much more than games. No doubt, like the current PG you've chosen to play lots of minutes, you too in your career were coming off a poor Junior season, and were challenged by Coach K to step up your game, or lose your starting position. You took the advice and stepped up and were named ACC Defensive Player of the Year, while also being a threat to shoot the basketball from distance and the FT line effectively.
Due to your own experience, and similarities to our current senior PG, it must be incredibly difficult for you to just relegate him to the bench due to your own personal experience. Unfortunately, just because you did it doesn't mean someone else can or will. As you learned against NJIT, you cannot have Derrick on the floor down the stretch, as if he gets fouled, there is a very good chance he will miss both critical free throws. Coach, what was your career FT percentage? 3 point FG%? Remind, as I feel you shot much better than 44% from the FT line and better than 10.3% from the 3 point line? (Which are Derrick's career percentages.)
Lastly Coach, everyone can understand how you want to give the benefit of the doubt to such a fine young man like Derrick. We all think he is a great representative of the university and program, and made of incredible character and deserving of being a captain. Derrick is a coach's dream in so many areas, yet at the end of the day he needs to produce on the court. However, when you play him so much and continue to highlight his shortcomings, it causes great angst for many of our fans. We saw 975 minutes of play from Derrick last season in which we saw the opposition sag off of him 5 feet due to his 7% shooting from the 3 point stripe, and in the words of our former coach - were playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
Given that you have a different roster composition this year with both Carlino and Duane eligible, as well as the guy who backed Derrick up as a freshman - John Dawson - who shot 28% from the 3 point line and 78% from the FT line - along with coming up big in our best win of the season last year - the only game he was given more than 20 minutes all last season - many of us would like to see you turn the page and begin to develop the younger, more talented players on the roster for the future.
Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall. Incredible.
Ners
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Dear Wojo,
Thanks for your note. I understand you are new to Marquette, and weren't closely following the program all of last season. No doubt you've had time to observe guys in practice these last 6 weeks, much more than games. No doubt, like the current PG you've chosen to play lots of minutes, you too in your career were coming off a poor Junior season, and were challenged by Coach K to step up your game, or lose your starting position. You took the advice and stepped up and were named ACC Defensive Player of the Year, while also being a threat to shoot the basketball from distance and the FT line effectively.
Due to your own experience, and similarities to our current senior PG, it must be incredibly difficult for you to just relegate him to the bench due to your own personal experience. Unfortunately, just because you did it doesn't mean someone else can or will. As you learned against NJIT, you cannot have Derrick on the floor down the stretch, as if he gets fouled, there is a very good chance he will miss both critical free throws. Coach, what was your career FT percentage? 3 point FG%? Remind, as I feel you shot much better than 44% from the FT line and better than 10.3% from the 3 point line? (Which are Derrick's career percentages.)
Lastly Coach, everyone can understand how you want to give the benefit of the doubt to such a fine young man like Derrick. We all think he is a great representative of the university and program, and made of incredible character and deserving of being a captain. Derrick is a coach's dream in so many areas, yet at the end of the day he needs to produce on the court. However, when you play him so much and continue to highlight his shortcomings, it causes great angst for many of our fans. We saw 975 minutes of play from Derrick last season in which we saw the opposition sag off of him 5 feet due to his 7% shooting from the 3 point stripe, and in the words of our former coach - were playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
Given that you have a different roster composition this year with both Carlino and Duane eligible, as well as the guy who backed Derrick up as a freshman - John Dawson - who shot 28% from the 3 point line and 78% from the FT line - along with coming up big in our best win of the season last year - the only game he was given more than 20 minutes all last season - many of us would like to see you turn the page and begin to develop the younger, more talented players on the roster for the future.
Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall. Incredible.
Ners
Why was beating a team that didn't even make noise in the NIT our best win? As I recall we beat xavier and they actually made the ncaa tournament.
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Why be a d1ck about it. Ya, he struggles. We all know that. He's also been a captain 2 years in a row.
Actually, Buzz never had captains. So its now 4 games to be accurate.
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Why was beating a team that didn't even make noise in the NIT our best win? As I recall we beat xavier and they actually made the ncaa tournament.
Because it doesn't fit his narrative. MU also beat Providence another tourney team.
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Because it doesn't fit his narrative. MU also beat Providence another tourney team.
My bad - I think it is proven out in ALL sports that winning on the road is much more difficult than winning on your home court. GTown's backcourt duo of Starks and Rivera was pretty good too
But yes, Xavier and Providence were 2 other "good" wins of the 3 we had all year.
BTW - Aren't you the same guy who said Robert Jackson was a better player than Gardner as a senior? But you didn't seem to have a whole lot to say when called out on the fact Jackson played with 3 NBAers on the roster, one of which was D-Wade - the best ever at MU and spoon feed Jackson uncontested layups, and you had Diener at Point, and Novak as a floor spacer. Somehow I think Rob Jackson would have struggled a little more with a backcourt of Derrick and Jake.
So, context, like the above distinction between road wins and home wins.
I'll hang up and listen...
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I have a 19 year old daughter. I only hope she brings home someone with as much class, with as much strength of character, with as much leadership as Derrick Wilson. The fact that I can beat him at HORSE is just gravy. ;D But seriously, to constantly rag on this guy, who has been a great teammate, who has lead, who has only done what was asked by two different coaches......says way more about the haters than it does about him.
How do you know you can beat him at Horse? Oh, OK, just shoot FT's.
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How do you know you can beat him at Horse? Oh, OK, just shoot FT's.
Good call. Better make sure the 'no dunking' rule is in effect or I am doomed.
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The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.
My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer
+1
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My bad - I think it is proven out in ALL sports that winning on the road is much more difficult than winning on your home court. GTown's backcourt duo of Starks and Rivera was pretty good too
But yes, Xavier and Providence were 2 other "good" wins of the 3 we had all year.
Yes, winning on the road is tougher, but Georgetown wasn't good. They actually finished below MU in the Big East last year.
BTW - Aren't you the same guy who said Robert Jackson was a better player than Gardner as a senior? But you didn't seem to have a whole lot to say when called out on the fact Jackson played with 3 NBAers on the roster, one of which was D-Wade - the best ever at MU and spoon feed Jackson uncontested layups, and you had Diener at Point, and Novak as a floor spacer. Somehow I think Rob Jackson would have struggled a little more with a backcourt of Derrick and Jake.
So, context, like the above distinction between road wins and home wins.
I'll hang up and listen...
Nope, never said that. You're thinking of a different guy.
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Or, Dawson loves his experience in the MU culture and accepts his role. Every team has players like this. Rosters usually have 12 - 15 players and the bottom 4 or 5 are not going to play much, at least in meaningful games, and they accept this.
Players at this level know where they stand compared to their competition on the team. Most are able to accept that. Just looking back at posts from John's dad, I think the overall experience is important to John and his family.
Culture and experience, he's not in the Coast Guard or the Marine Corp... Every College basketball player wants to play... Theres no way he would leave home to go ride the bench for 4 years play garbage time and get a free degree... I'm sure thats not gonna be the case...
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Culture and experience, he's not in the Coast Guard or the Marine Core... Every College basketball player wants to play... Theres no way he would leave home to go ride the bench for 4 years play garbage time and get a free degree... I'm sure thats not gonna be the case...
The Marine "Core"?
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Culture and experience, he's not in the Coast Guard or the Marine Core... Every College basketball player wants to play... Theres no way he would leave home to go ride the bench for 4 years play garbage time and get a free degree... I'm sure thats not gonna be the case...
Never happens - except on every team in the country.
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The Marine "Core"?
C'mon Lenny. That's the guy that stands in the middle when they huddle up.
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Dear Wojo,
Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall. Incredible.
Ners
So why is the ONLY current conclusion that Dawson isn't playing because of a logjam/encouraged transfer?
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Actually, Buzz never had captains. So its now 4 games to be accurate.
Sorry, you are wrong.
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Awesome - in all the suckitude of last year, we beat Xavier - yeah!!!
Does it really matter?
Why was beating a team that didn't even make noise in the NIT our best win? As I recall we beat xavier and they actually made the ncaa tournament.
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The only conclusion I can draw is this:
Wojo sees a logjam at the 2 on the current roster and next year's - prefers Duane at the 2, there's JJJ, there's Cohen. You have Cheatham coming and Nick N in next year's class. Nick N - from what I've seen and heard is a very similar player to Dawson - a combo guard. He's not a burner, but a solid shooter and distributor as is Dawson.
What all of that adds up to, along with Dawson not getting any PT, in my connecting the dots - is that Wojo is trying to essentially encourage a transfer - to free a scholarship to go out and recruit a pure PG. There is little else that makes sense as far as how hard Dawson has been nailed to the bench on a thin roster, where none of the guards have established themselves yet as absolute must haves to be on the court. They are all being given a chance to show what they can do - Dawson? Not so much.
I'd at least hope Wojo is being transparent with Dawson and his family as far as what's going on - be stand up enough guy to say: We are overloaded at the 2 guard position and we feel it would be in John's best interests to look elsewhere.
You twist yourself into knots on this stuff, and there isn't any reason to.
Keep it simple, stupid. KISS.
Dawson likely isn't playing because he's not better than the guy(s) in front of him (yet).
END.
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You can like the kid, but you don't have to like the player.
If you liked the kid, you would never, ever be happy when he got injured.
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Ahh Scoop...there are many ways in life to kill brain cells. Alcohol, drugs, autoerotic asphyxiation, but surely the most effective is reading Ners' posts. Ignore only does so much.
So let's see...the way I see it there are two possibilities. Either Ners has a better basketball mind than Buzz Williams and his staff that included Jerry Wainwright and his 30 years of college coaching, and also a better basketball mind than anyone on Wojo's staff, which is led by a guy that put a ton of guys in the NBA while also coaching the likes of LeBron and Wade with USA Basketball, all thanks to Ners amazing experience as what, a freaking high school basketball player?
OR Ners simply isn't as good a talent evaluator as the guys that get paid millions to do this and see these guys every day. Hmm...which seems more likely?
I also am amused by all the "Derrick is historically bad" BS when Dawson had a worse shooting percentage and worse offensive rating last year. Of course, we can't count any of that because it doesn't fit the narrative it doesn't count if a guy doesn't get 10 minutes to warm up ::)
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Dear Wojo,
Thanks for your note. I understand you are new to Marquette, and weren't closely following the program all of last season. No doubt you've had time to observe guys in practice these last 6 weeks, much more than games. No doubt, like the current PG you've chosen to play lots of minutes, you too in your career were coming off a poor Junior season, and were challenged by Coach K to step up your game, or lose your starting position. You took the advice and stepped up and were named ACC Defensive Player of the Year, while also being a threat to shoot the basketball from distance and the FT line effectively.
Due to your own experience, and similarities to our current senior PG, it must be incredibly difficult for you to just relegate him to the bench due to your own personal experience. Unfortunately, just because you did it doesn't mean someone else can or will. As you learned against NJIT, you cannot have Derrick on the floor down the stretch, as if he gets fouled, there is a very good chance he will miss both critical free throws. Coach, what was your career FT percentage? 3 point FG%? Remind, as I feel you shot much better than 44% from the FT line and better than 10.3% from the 3 point line? (Which are Derrick's career percentages.)
Lastly Coach, everyone can understand how you want to give the benefit of the doubt to such a fine young man like Derrick. We all think he is a great representative of the university and program, and made of incredible character and deserving of being a captain. Derrick is a coach's dream in so many areas, yet at the end of the day he needs to produce on the court. However, when you play him so much and continue to highlight his shortcomings, it causes great angst for many of our fans. We saw 975 minutes of play from Derrick last season in which we saw the opposition sag off of him 5 feet due to his 7% shooting from the 3 point stripe, and in the words of our former coach - were playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
Given that you have a different roster composition this year with both Carlino and Duane eligible, as well as the guy who backed Derrick up as a freshman - John Dawson - who shot 28% from the 3 point line and 78% from the FT line - along with coming up big in our best win of the season last year - the only game he was given more than 20 minutes all last season - many of us would like to see you turn the page and begin to develop the younger, more talented players on the roster for the future.
Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall. Incredible.
Ners
Dear Ners:
I sure wish that in all of those words, you had reconfirmed you were giving me the benefit of the doubt. Because if there's one thing I live for, it's getting the benefit of the doubt from wannabe ballers.
You've convinced me of one thing, though: I need to play Derrick even more because it will be fun knowing it made a frustrated ex-jock's head explode!
Love,
Wojo
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I think hes subliminally be encouraged to transfer. I mean is he that much worse than anyone else.
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I think hes subliminally be encouraged to transfer. I mean is he that much worse than anyone else.
Pretty much........
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Awesome - in all the suckitude of last year, we beat Xavier - yeah!!!
Does it really matter?
Well to me it mattered for bragging rights with friends but I'm just pointing out that Ners has been going on and on about the Georgetown win being our best win last year and they were almost as bad as us but the Xavier and Providence wins were clearly better and Dawson didn't rock those games.
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Dear Wojo,
Thanks for your note. I understand you are new to Marquette, and weren't closely following the program all of last season. No doubt you've had time to observe guys in practice these last 6 weeks, much more than games. No doubt, like the current PG you've chosen to play lots of minutes, you too in your career were coming off a poor Junior season, and were challenged by Coach K to step up your game, or lose your starting position. You took the advice and stepped up and were named ACC Defensive Player of the Year, while also being a threat to shoot the basketball from distance and the FT line effectively.
Due to your own experience, and similarities to our current senior PG, it must be incredibly difficult for you to just relegate him to the bench due to your own personal experience. Unfortunately, just because you did it doesn't mean someone else can or will. As you learned against NJIT, you cannot have Derrick on the floor down the stretch, as if he gets fouled, there is a very good chance he will miss both critical free throws. Coach, what was your career FT percentage? 3 point FG%? Remind, as I feel you shot much better than 44% from the FT line and better than 10.3% from the 3 point line? (Which are Derrick's career percentages.)
Lastly Coach, everyone can understand how you want to give the benefit of the doubt to such a fine young man like Derrick. We all think he is a great representative of the university and program, and made of incredible character and deserving of being a captain. Derrick is a coach's dream in so many areas, yet at the end of the day he needs to produce on the court. However, when you play him so much and continue to highlight his shortcomings, it causes great angst for many of our fans. We saw 975 minutes of play from Derrick last season in which we saw the opposition sag off of him 5 feet due to his 7% shooting from the 3 point stripe, and in the words of our former coach - were playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
Given that you have a different roster composition this year with both Carlino and Duane eligible, as well as the guy who backed Derrick up as a freshman - John Dawson - who shot 28% from the 3 point line and 78% from the FT line - along with coming up big in our best win of the season last year - the only game he was given more than 20 minutes all last season - many of us would like to see you turn the page and begin to develop the younger, more talented players on the roster for the future.
Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall. Incredible.
Ners
This post is why no one takes you seriously. Well...and this one.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45307.0
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Good call. Better make sure the 'no dunking' rule is in effect or I am doomed.
Not so sure. Have not seen Derrick dunk either, so this could be a wash. Suggestion: start working on your hops.
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You twist yourself into knots on this stuff, and there isn't any reason to.
Keep it simple, stupid. KISS.
Dawson likely isn't playing because he's not better than the guy(s) in front of him (yet).
END.
Do you take every single situation in life at face value? Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?
Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:
So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't? Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year? How do you get a kid to want to transfer?? Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around. (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)
None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con. It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer. Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.
And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?
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This post is why no one takes you seriously. Well...and this one.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45307.0
Guys who make absolute statements such as "no one" takes you seriously show exactly why they shouldn't be taken seriously. But, if you could take me seriously - you'd acknowledge that I told you and this board all of last season something wasn't right with Buzz when I'd been nothing but bullish on him in all years prior. You and other face value thinkers offered up your brilliant: He's doing things as he's always done. Business as usual.
Then what happens: Buzz shocks the college basketball world and bails for VaTech.
Critical thinking skills Sultan. Apparently you left Marquette without acquiring them. Critical thinking skills are used to connect dots when what takes place on the surface doesn't quite mesh with common sense.
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They also serve who only SIT and wait
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Do you take every single situation in life at face value? Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?
Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:
So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't? Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year? How do you get a kid to want to transfer?? Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around. (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)
None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con. It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer. Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.
And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?
John Dawson: 10.8 mpg in conference play
JJJ: 9.2 mpg
Hardly a significant difference when you consider Dawson was really the only back up at point guard, while JJJ was playing behind both Thomas and Mayo.
Furthermore, even if Wojo was nailing him to the bench to encourage a transfer, doesn't that give you an indication that Dawson might actually not be as good as you have suggested? Why would he be encouraging a good player to transfer?
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Guys who make absolute statements such as "no one" takes you seriously show exactly why they shouldn't be taken seriously. But, if you could take me seriously - you'd acknowledge that I told you and this board all of last season something wasn't right with Buzz when I'd been nothing but bullish on him in all years prior. You and other face value thinkers offered up your brilliant: He's doing things as he's always done. Business as usual.
Then what happens: Buzz shocks the college basketball world and bails for VaTech.
Critical thinking skills Sultan. Apparently you left Marquette without acquiring them. Critical thinking skills are used to connect dots when what takes place on the surface doesn't quite mesh with common sense.
LOL. If anything, Wojo's playing time decisions have really only reinforced why Buzz made the decisions he made last year.
(BTW, the "critical thinking skills" is a cute new talking point you have decided to trot out.)
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You are pathetic. Go root for someone else please.
Pathetic?? lol, says the guy who spends 18 hours a day on a basketball message board. Dude, hopefully u can pull yourself away from your computer and have a little family time today.
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Pathetic?? lol, says the guy who spends 18 hours a day on a basketball message board. Dude, hopefully u can pull yourself away from your computer and have a little family time today.
I thought your only duty on this board when you were hired was to defend Chicos. Wait, maybe attacking sultan is another way for you to do that.
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Do you take every single situation in life at face value? Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?
Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:
So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't? Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year? How do you get a kid to want to transfer?? Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around. (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)
None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con. It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer. Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.
And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?
Dude, you are out of control. Have some honor and self-respect and BAN YOURSELF.
You asked for, and then ignored our opinion!!
And then go see a doc. There is medication for OCD disorder.
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John Dawson: 10.8 mpg in conference play
JJJ: 9.2 mpg
Hardly a significant difference when you consider Dawson was really the only back up at point guard, while JJJ was playing behind both Thomas and Mayo.
Furthermore, even if Wojo was nailing him to the bench to encourage a transfer, doesn't that give you an indication that Dawson might actually not be as good as you have suggested? Why would he be encouraging a good player to transfer?
LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:
Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.
So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games. Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently. Two coaches. Two different opinions. Hmm.
As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was. 3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.
As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane), suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length. Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM. Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue. Much better than Jamail Jones. Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
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LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:
Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.
So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games. Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently. Two coaches. Two different opinions. Hmm.
As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was. 3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.
As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane), suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length. Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM. Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue. Much better than Jamail Jones. Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
There is NO EVIDENCE that Wojo is encouraging John to transfer.
Meds!!
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Dude, you are out of control. Have some honor and self-respect and BAN YOURSELF.
You asked for, and then ignored our opinion!!
And then go see a doc. There is medication for OCD disorder.
Thanks for the concern Brandx. Apparently the others are just as OCD in their nature as they continue to argue the other side of the debate. And that's all this is, is a debate, with two sides having different opinions..
I would appreciate it, however, if some of you would at least attack the argument I'm making in these posts, instead of attacking me personally. The personal attacks don't bother me, but they ultimately illustrate an inability to attack the argument/post being made.
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Anyone here think we should've hired Ners instead of Wojo? We may not have landed Ellenson, but we'd definitely be 4-0 with Ners as a player/coach!
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There is NO EVIDENCE that Wojo is encouraging John to transfer.
Meds!!
And that's the whole point I'm making - some of you seem to lack critical thinking skills. Can't see (or refuse to see) anything beyond surface level. Just as many did with Buzz last year...and then when he shocked the college basketball world and bolted to Va Tech - some "conveniently" decided to give up the Scoop board for Lent. LOL.
I feel pretty confident that if Wojo continues to nail Dawson to the bench and not give him a fair chance to show what he can do in non-conference play, Dawson will transfer. Care to wager?
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Anyone here think we should've hired Ners instead of Wojo? We may not have landed Ellenson, but we'd definitely be 4-0 with Ners as a player/coach!
No, I prefer Wojo to Ners as Coach. Now, Ners is perfect on this board, ticking people off with his insightful deductions. That is why he is...Nerslock Holmes.
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LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:
Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.
So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games. Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently. Two coaches. Two different opinions. Hmm.
As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was. 3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.
As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane), suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length. Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM. Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue. Much better than Jamail Jones. Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
I have it on pretty good word, that Dawson enjoys and values Marquette as a school. I think he understands his role for now. He has a lot of friends and is doing well. It is possible that he could transfer but not probable.
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If anything, Wojo's playing time decisions have really only reinforced why Buzz made the decisions he made last year.
I do not totally buy this argument (except for how it applies to Dawson) because 2014-15 is significantly different from 2013-14.
Last year, we were supposed to be good. And even though we weren't good, we weren't really bad. That's what a .500 record tells you. It's the very definition of mediocre. Right up until the end, Buzz felt that if we put together a little stretch in which we went 4-2 or 3-1, we could sneak into the dance. So he was all about doing what he felt he had to do to win. And he felt he had to play Derrick and Jake. Even though the evidence suggested that was one of the very worst backcourts in the nation, he kept trotting those two guys out there. Based on what he saw in practices and in the limited game samples, he simply didn't trust the alternatives.
Ners has suggested Buzz was trying to throw games. That's absurd, and I suggest the opposite is true. Buzz was desperately trying to win and he was going to stick with "his guys" through thin and thinner.
This season, it already is obvious we aren't going to the NCAA tournament. We will be fortunate to come close to mediocrity. Wojo is smart and probably knows this in his heart of heart, but he is a coach so he is nowhere near throwing in the towel. So he is walking the line between trying to win and developing talent.
That has led him to play Derrick a ton in a few games but also to bench him when he felt Derrick was playing especially crappy or when we couldn't afford to have one of the worst FT-shooting PGs in college basketball history on the court. It has led to JJJ, Cohen and Duane getting good long runs in some games and a good amount of bench time in others.
If a player who wasn't one of "his guys" made a mistake last year, Buzz would pull him after a minute and not play him again, maybe not for several games. If a player makes a mistake this season, Wojo will pull him but then put him back in the game later. For Wojo, it hasn't mattered if that player is Derrick or Taylor or Carlino or whomever. Did Buzz ever pull Jake last season after making one mistake?
The one player both seem to agree upon is Dawson, and that leads me to believe what I already suspected was true: Dawson simply can't play at this level. His one big game against Georgetown was kind of like Jim Dudley's flash-in-the-pan moment in the 1977 tourney.
Even after Dawson's performance against Georgetown, though, Buzz barely gave him a chance. It would be like Wojo watching what Duane did down the stretch against NJIT and then barely playing him again for the rest of the season.
But Wojo won't do that. One, because I'm sure he believes Duane is a superior player; and two, because Wojo knows he must develop Duane while Buzz felt zero urgency to develop Dawson. Apparently, Wojo feels the same lack of urgency regarding Dawson.
Do I think Wojo is sending Dawson a "you might as well transfer" message? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't have to be a "sinister" thing, and it happens all the time in college sports.
Dawson isn't playing because he's not good enough. Two coaches in a row, each with completely different assistants, have deemed that to be true. And a good number of Scoopers not named Ners realized even last season that he probably doesn't have high-major talent.
I firmly believe that if Wojo considered Dawson anywhere near as good a long-term candidate as Duane, JJJ and/or Cohen, Dawson would be in that mix and getting fairly equivalent playing time.
Assuming Dawson and his family are intelligent -- and they certainly seem to be -- they should be interpreting the kid's bench time as a message. If they aren't already exploring opportunities to transfer, they should ... unless Dawson loves Marquette so much he can't bear to leave, which though highly unlikely is a possibility.
Again, it's not all black and white. Lots of gray area here.
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I think hes subliminally be encouraged to transfer. I mean is he that much worse than anyone else.
If you go and read all the haikus posted on scoop in reverse chronological order and take the first letter of the third word in the second line, followed by the rot13 of the last letter of the haiku, it's really pretty clear that Wojo has a message for us.
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I have it on pretty good word, that Dawson enjoys and values Marquette as a school. I think he understands his role for now. He has a lot of friends and is doing well. It is possible that he could transfer but not probable.
Glad to hear it.
He knows he will be part of something special. His old man is ok too.
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I thought Ners agreed to ban himself? ::)
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With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.
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Or Wojo has seen him play every day for months and doesn't think he is better than the guys who are playing.....
With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.
[/b]
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With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.
And what if he's not injured. And he doesn't transfer? Ners, and now you, have totally cornered yourselves with your narrow views. there could lliterally be many more possibilities for why he isn't playing. But because you're convinced John is so good, it must be everyone else that's screwed up. None of us hate Dawson or think he's a terrible player. We just understand there's more possibilities
The problem with trying to have a discussion with you guys is the same with peoplle who believe the moon landing was faked. The complete closed minded views you choose make it impossible for you to even comprehend Any other possibilities. You'll always come up with some theory or rationale for why whatever evidenced is presented reflects your view. You'll never believe you're just wrong unless wojo or Dawson told you personally (and maybe not even then)
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LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:
Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.
So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games. Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently. Two coaches. Two different opinions. Hmm.
As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was. 3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.
As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane), suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length. Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM. Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue. Much better than Jamail Jones. Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
How many conference championships does Newbill have?
How many sweet 16s and elite 8s?
How many NCAA tournament games has Newbill won? Played?
How many NBA games has he played in?
The answer is none to all of them.
Newbill is a shooter on a bad team. He shot 14-33 in one game. Points scored isn't the only measure of success and if Newbill would have stayed he probably wouldn't have gotten as much PT. Would he have helped last year probably but I don't think you can reasonably say that he was better then the best player on an elite 8 team.
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Saved by the Mods who shut that thread down before voting officially closed. Sorry Ball Boy - I'll still be around, and I'm sure I'll still disagree with you a ton. Happy Thanksgiving.
That's good. I voted no. Your arguments only bring more credibility to my analysis. ;)
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And what if he's not injured. And he doesn't transfer? Ners, and now you, have totally cornered yourselves with your narrow views. there could lliterally be many more possibilities for why he isn't playing. But because you're convinced John is so good, it must be everyone else that's screwed up. None of us hate Dawson or think he's a terrible player. We just understand there's more possibilities
The problem with trying to have a discussion with you guys is the same with peoplle who believe the moon landing was faked. The complete closed minded views you choose make it impossible for you to even comprehend Any other possibilities. You'll always come up with some theory or rationale for why whatever evidenced is presented reflects your view. You'll never believe you're just wrong unless wojo or Dawson told you personally (and maybe not even then)
Well, I don't know if I've cornered myself with my narrow views, as I think I've posted maybe twice about Dawson in the last year. I'm just trying to figure out why he'd be chained to the bench in games where we have looked horrible, even if just for a change of pace or to try something different. I've never really argued that Dawson is "so good", but I do think Dawson showed some good things last year for a freshman, especially in the Georgetown game, so was just wondering what was going on. And to lump me in with Ners is kinda funny, as he has about 2,000 posts on Dawson and I have maybe 3-4 total on the same topic.
By the way, I won the bet we made last December over where MU would finish in the Big East last season. You took the top half and I took the bottom half. I believe the wager was 2 12 packs of a local brew.
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Dawson is not injured.....
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Well, I don't know if I've cornered myself with my narrow views, as I think I've posted maybe twice about Dawson in the last year. I'm just trying to figure out why he'd be chained to the bench in games where we have looked horrible, even if just for a change of pace or to try something different. I've never really argued that Dawson is "so good", but I do think Dawson showed some good things last year for a freshman, especially in the Georgetown game, so was just wondering what was going on. And to lump me in with Ners is kinda funny, as he has about 2,000 posts on Dawson and I have maybe 3-4 total on the same topic.
By the way, I won the bet we made last December over where MU would finish in the Big East last season. You took the top half and I took the bottom half. I believe the wager was 2 12 packs of a local brew.
When you say that the only things that could make sense to you are him being injured or he told wojo he's transferring, you're limiting yourself to only two reasons why he wouldn't be playing, so yes, you are cornering yourself. Because you're stating that you don't believe anything else other than those 2 reasons are why Dawson couldn't be playing right now.
My apologies for lumping you in with Ners. I must admit, I don't follow along with who posts how much about each topic. Having said that, I get annoyed that people are somehow not able to be open to the possibility that Dawson just might not be good enough right now to grab minutes from the people ahead of him.
True statement on the bet. Totally forgot. Let me know your preferred type (IPA, porter, etc) and address and I'll get those to you.
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Dawson is not injured.....
Good to know. I hope he stays at MU, improves, and is a positive contributor to our team on and off the court for the next 3 years.
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How many conference championships does Newbill have?
How many sweet 16s and elite 8s?
How many NCAA tournament games has Newbill won? Played?
How many NBA games has he played in?
The answer is none to all of them.
Newbill is a shooter on a bad team. He shot 14-33 in one game. Points scored isn't the only measure of success and if Newbill would have stayed he probably wouldn't have gotten as much PT. Would he have helped last year probably but I don't think you can reasonably say that he was better then the best player on an elite 8 team.
14-33 - Translates to Vander's career shooting mark of 42.9% - so if you are going to diss Newbill for shooting 14-33, at least make sure it's worse than Vander's career. Newbill is shooting 48.5% right now for this season. For his career he shoots 45% from the Field.
Of course all things are not equal, and Newbill hasn't been a part of very good teams. Yet if you are a coach, and you face a team with limited talent - but the opposition has one good player - do you not try to take away that good player?
Did Robert Jackson not benefit from playing with D-Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak? Did each of those guys also not benefit from playing with each other? Point is it is HARDER to perform when the talent around you is subpar.
The Big 10 isn't a slouch league at all, and last season Newbill averaged 17.8ppg on 45% shooting, and averages 5 rebounds per game with a 123.9 rating. Vander's BEST year at MU he averaged 14.7ppg on 45% shooting with 3 rebounds per game - and an O-Rating of 104.2.62 assists for 36 steals for the whole year.
Hmm - A guy can be a better player, but plays on a worse team. Doesn't make the other player "better."
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My point wasn't percentage it was volume. Sometimes when you are the best player on a bad team you benefit because you get to shot 33 times a game. When you are on a good team you only get 10 shots a game. The only reason you can claim he is a better player is because of his gaudy numbers.
If DJ is better, what do the NBA draft experts say? Right now, he goes undrafted even after all of those points against bad teams.
In the Big Ten they get 7-8 teams in every year. That meant he only needed to carry his team to the top 3/4 of the conference to get in. In Vander's last year he played in the Best Conference and he was the leader of the team that won it.
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My point wasn't percentage it was volume. Sometimes when you are the best player on a bad team you benefit because you get to shot 33 times a game. When you are on a good team you only get 10 shots a game. The only reason you can claim he is a better player is because of his gaudy numbers.
If DJ is better, what do the NBA draft experts say? Right now, he goes undrafted even after all of those points against bad teams.
In the Big Ten they get 7-8 teams in every year. That meant he only needed to carry his team to the top 3/4 of the conference to get in. In Vander's last year he played in the Best Conference and he was the leader of the team that won it.
Fair points. And I actually had his O-Rating from his Junior year wrong with the stats I listed - it actually was only 108.3 as a junior - so not much better than Vander's. (What I listed was his current O-Rating for this season.) O-Rating is a measure of offensive efficiency and shot volume is calculated into that..
Vander had a very nice Junior year - no one would deny that. Newbill did too. Nonetheless, I think Newbill stands a very good chance of making an NBA team and getting drafted. But, we'll see.
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NBA scouts would seem to have a different opinion.
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NBA scouts would seem to have a different opinion.
At present, yes. I suspect Newbill will finish averaging close to 20ppg in the Big Ten on efficient scoring and be a first team Big 10 player.
Historically, there aren't a whole lot of 20ppg guards out of the Big 10 that have NBA size that don't get drafted.
Lots of basketball left to be played.
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I thought Ners agreed to ban himself? ::)
It was all a ploy for attention anyway.
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At present, yes. I suspect Newbill will finish averaging close to 20ppg in the Big Ten on efficient scoring and be a first team Big 10 player.
Historically, there aren't a whole lot of 20ppg guards out of the Big 10 that have NBA size that don't get drafted.
Lots of basketball left to be played.
With the volume of shots that he puts up, 20 ppg isn't gonna impress the NBA scouts.
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With the volume of shots that he puts up, 20 ppg isn't gonna impress the NBA scouts.
He would need about 27.5 ppg.
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Gonna leave this here:
https://twitter.com/ryjackson32/status/538159722021801984
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Just saw those tweets. Announcement coming...? For those not on twitter:
Ryan Jackson @ryjackson32 4h4 hours ago Florida, US
Just noticed, John Dawson isn't dressed. Dress shoes and pants. Hmmm.... #mubb
Marquette Nation @mubbnation 4h4 hours ago
i smell a transfer a'brewin RT @ryjackson32: Just noticed, John Dawson isn't dressed. Dress shoes and pants. Hmmm.... #mubb
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uh oh....
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I don't post much, but read a ton. Why would the team have him travel to Florida and stay in the team hotel if he were transferring? I'm guessing it's more of an academic issue or team policy violation.
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He looked pretty fired up during a GT timeout in the 1st half after a MU run
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I don't post much, but read a ton. Why would the team have him travel to Florida and stay in the team hotel if he were transferring? I'm guessing it's more of an academic issue or team policy violation.
The Semester isnt over till Dec 14-15th. If it were achedemic his grades wouldn't be in until then also the team has tutors home and on the road so im pretty sure its not grades. Plus hes a high character kid that is doing good in class. If it were a team rule violation we'd know by now.
A classmate tweeted.
https://twitter.com/the_ryanbrennan/status/538168706787188736
@The_RyanBrennan: @Jacob_Born John Dawson deserved an A+ in that class. Actually put the most work in and was the best of everyone
So its either an "encouraged" transfer via no playing time or Wojo just isn't gonna let him play this year because he feels hes not ready or hes coming back in a package deal with Luke Fischer. Lol
The semester ends next month. If he stays or goes we will see what happens. . .
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at home games this year it looked like Dawson had "street" shoes on but he did not - they were black, shiny basketball shoes... maybe the tweeter made a mistake...
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Our warmups last night looked like pajamas. Dawson was warming up before the game and actually shooting pretty well. I don't think he'd be doing that in dress shoes but I wasn't paying attention to his feet. I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man's shoes?
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NVM
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Our warmups last night looked like pajamas. Dawson was warming up before the game and actually shooting pretty well. I don't think he'd be doing that in dress shoes but I wasn't paying attention to his feet. I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man's shoes?
You can look at the photos on go.marquette and he is in the warm-ups. As I overheard from a female near me: "Doesn't Marquette know grey warmups don't go with blue uniforms? Bad look."
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14-33 - Translates to Vander's career shooting mark of 42.9% - so if you are going to diss Newbill for shooting 14-33, at least make sure it's worse than Vander's career. Newbill is shooting 48.5% right now for this season. For his career he shoots 45% from the Field.
Of course all things are not equal, and Newbill hasn't been a part of very good teams. Yet if you are a coach, and you face a team with limited talent - but the opposition has one good player - do you not try to take away that good player?
Did Robert Jackson not benefit from playing with D-Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak? Did each of those guys also not benefit from playing with each other? Point is it is HARDER to perform when the talent around you is subpar.
The Big 10 isn't a slouch league at all, and last season Newbill averaged 17.8ppg on 45% shooting, and averages 5 rebounds per game with a 123.9 rating. Vander's BEST year at MU he averaged 14.7ppg on 45% shooting with 3 rebounds per game - and an O-Rating of 104.2.62 assists for 36 steals for the whole year.
Hmm - A guy can be a better player, but plays on a worse team. Doesn't make the other player "better."
Comparisons between Vander and Newbill are silly.
Vander became the go-to man for the champions of the old Big East, and his team never would have reached the Elite Eight without his clutch play. Newbill is a good player for a Big Ten bottom-feeder. Neither is an NBA player but Vander obviously had a greater impact on college basketball.
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Comparisons between Vander and Newbill are silly.
Vander became the go-to man for the champions of the old Big East, and his team never would have reached the Elite Eight without his clutch play. Newbill is a good player for a Big Ten bottom-feeder. Neither is an NBA player but Vander obviously had a greater impact on college basketball.
Yep.
This is just one of Ners' things.
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You can look at the photos on go.marquette and he is in the warm-ups. As I overheard from a female near me: "Doesn't Marquette know grey warmups don't go with blue uniforms? Bad look."
This year's gray warmups are horrible. We've had many years with cool warmups but these are weak.
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5 DNP's in a row....
4 min for the season... I'd just leave now and at least have an appealing case to the NCAA to play without sitting out next year......
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5 DNP's in a row....
4 min for the season... I'd just leave now and at least have an appealing case to the NCAA to play without sitting out next year......
And that appeal would be...?
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And that appeal would be...?
A medical redshirt. Suddenly Dawson will have a season ending injury. At least that's what I'd fake if I were him.
In Travis Diener's assessment of the players:
John Dawson: John is a great athlete, strong, that can knock down shots.
Hmm.
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A medical redshirt. Suddenly Dawson will have a season ending injury. At least that's what I'd fake if I were him.
In Travis Diener's assessment of the players:
John Dawson: John is a great athlete, strong, that can knock down shots.
Hmm.
Yeah, you do know how ridiculous you sound, right?
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Yeah, you do know how ridiculous you sound, right?
LOL - You asked for a reason for an appeal...I gave you one. And yes, I know it was ridiculous. But, if I'm Dawson...I'd try to figure out a way to get eligible somewhere else next year. Languishing on the bench for a whole season behind a guy like Derrick for a second year in a row would be brutal.
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LOL - You asked for a reason for an appeal...I gave you one. And yes, I know it was ridiculous. But, if I'm Dawson...I'd try to figure out a way to get eligible somewhere else next year. Languishing on the bench for a whole season behind a guy like Derrick for a second year in a row would be brutal.
Okay, as long as all agree on ridiculous. And yes, I'd be pissed too, but after two coaches someone has to start looking at himself.
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LOL - You asked for a reason for an appeal...I gave you one. And yes, I know it was ridiculous. But, if I'm Dawson...I'd try to figure out a way to get eligible somewhere else next year. Languishing on the bench for a whole season behind a guy like Derrick for a second year in a row would be brutal.
Maybe be better than him and you won't have to have that experience.
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Okay, as long as all agree on ridiculous. And yes, I'd be pissed too, but after two coaches someone has to start looking at himself.
That's a fair point. But, there are certain types of players who are just coaches "pets." It happens. Derrick is the classic case: Great kid. Hard working. Scrappy defender. High character. Not turnover prone.
Problem is those kind of guys rarely help you WIN games, when they play big* minutes. Between Carlino and Duane I feel the PG position is in good enough hands - give the other guard minutes to JJJ/Dawson or even Cohen and see what they can give you. They are far more the future of the program than is Derrick.
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That's a fair point. But, there are certain types of players who are just coaches "pets." It happens. Derrick is the classic case: Great kid. Hard working. Scrappy defender. High character. Not turnover prone.
Problem is those kind of guys rarely help you WIN games, when they play big* minutes. Between Carlino and Duane I feel the PG position is in good enough hands - give the other guard minutes to JJJ/Dawson or even Cohen and see what they can give you. They are far more the future of the program than is Derrick.
Pets or not, everyone had a blank slate with Wojo. Derrick is the old trusty store bought sirloin sitting at home waiting for you, but does anyone really know that Dawson is that filet at Gibson's?
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give the other guard minutes to JJJ/Dawson or even Cohen and see what they can give you. They are far more the future of the program than is Derrick.
Profound - a freshman and two sophs are more the future of the program than a senior.
I have a hunch that Wojo is opting for Derrick because he is playing for the present.
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Pets or not, everyone had a blank slate with Wojo. Derrick is the old trusty store bought sirloin sitting at home waiting for you, but does anyone really know that Dawson is that filet at Gibson's?
Hard to know when the filet never gets served in the restaurant.
All I know is the filet shoots and passes the ball considerably better, and defends nearly as well - and isn't nearing it's "throw away" date.
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I have a hunch that Wojo is opting for Derrick because he is playing for the present.
You mean we won't be resigning Derrick Wilson? That's going to free up a lot of cap room.
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LOL - You asked for a reason for an appeal...I gave you one. And yes, I know it was ridiculous. But, if I'm Dawson...I'd try to figure out a way to get eligible somewhere else next year. Languishing on the bench for a whole season behind a guy like Derrick for a second year in a row would be brutal.
Right, sitting behind him for 35 Mpg is very appealing.... Said Nobody
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Profound - a freshman and two sophs are more the future of the program than a senior.
I have a hunch that Wojo is opting for Derrick because he is playing for the present.
No doubt about it. We need that 20% FT shooting, non-existent 3 point shooting, and tonight 0 assists. Soon teams will again sag off Derrick and his one effective move - going to his right off the dribble while closely defended - will be gone as he won't be able to get a step due to the defender sagging off of him 5 feet. Our conference foes know his game and won't make the same mistake of guarding him honestly as has every team thus far.
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To shed some light on the situation, I just talked to a friend of mine who knows John and his friends (2nd hand source). I know that may sound shady to some of you but I'm fairly confident in the accuracy of the info I got.
According to my friend he is apparently on 'partial academic probation'. Not sure exactly what that means or any specifics into the matter as I did not inquire any further. That may explain why he warms up with the team but doesn't take off his warmups ever during the course of the game.
I thought it was weird that he literally had no playing time when he obviously had a good deal of experience last season and we could use some depth in the rotation. This, for me, explains the situation well.
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To shed some light on the situation, I just talked to a friend of mine who knows John and his friends (2nd hand source). I know that may sound shady to some of you but I'm fairly confident in the accuracy of the info I got.
According to my friend he is apparently on 'partial academic probation'. Not sure exactly what that means or any specifics into the matter as I did not inquire any further. That may explain why he warms up with the team but doesn't take off his warmups ever during the course of the game.
I thought it was weird that he literally had no playing time when he obviously had a good deal of experience last season and we could use some depth in the rotation. This, for me, explains the situation well.
My guess is that Wojo doesn't dick around with grades and is setting an example for the team given how dire the situation is with the lack of depth. Rule with an iron fist Wojo !!!
Academic Probation - Full probation means you have to bring your cumulative gpa above 2.0 after that semester is over. As far as partial goes ..... I'm thinking it might be that his cumulative is above 2.0 but his last semester gpa may have been below 2.0. You're not allowed to have consecutive semesters below 2.0. If that is the case then he must get above a 2.0 this semester to qualify for next semester.
Help me out if I'm wrong.
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Is it possible that Wojo has his own unwritten standard for grades other than the 2.0 minimum? Could it be he is doing badly in one class and that is bringing him down? I'm not sure, but I feel like it would be common knowledge if he was officially ineligible under the standard rules.
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Could just be that Wojo really wants him to lock in before finals just to make sure he isn't on the wrong side of the grade line once they come out.
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Wojo setting his own standards makes sense. If true, I can see the strategy--set an example/precedent of taking grades seriously now while you are somewhat playing with house money (expectations are relatively low). Though I'm not sure if this is his actual thought process, as this is somewhat of a long-term strategy and, for better or for worse, coaches are generally focused on the short-term.
Anyway, if it's grades, then I understand the lack of PT. But if it's not grades, then is he that bad in practice? I mean, look at Jamal Ferguson. That guy NEVER played. And Jamail Jones, too, though to a lesser extent. These guys were likely that bad.
Last year, Brent had enough confidence in Dawson to play him in quite a few games, even crucial ones and in game-time situations. My point here is that Dawson is getting the Jamal Ferguson treatment, but from what we saw last year, Dawson can handle his own.
If at some point in the season we are figuratively mathematically-eliminated from the tourney, I hope Wojo "rolls the dice" and plays Dawson.
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I think it is straightforward . Derrick , Duane, JJJ, Carlino and Cohen are getting the guard minutes . There simply is nothing there for him until he can earn the confidence of
The coaches . When Luke is eligible it will push him further down the list . Hopefully we can build big leads against the remaining cupcakes and he can get a few minutes to show what he can do.
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Wojo setting his own standards makes sense. If true, I can see the strategy--set an example/precedent of taking grades seriously now while you are somewhat playing with house money (expectations are relatively low). Though I'm not sure if this is his actual thought process, as this is somewhat of a long-term strategy and, for better or for worse, coaches are generally focused on the short-term.
Anyway, if it's grades, then I understand the lack of PT. But if it's not grades, then is he that bad in practice? I mean, look at Jamal Ferguson. That guy NEVER played. And Jamail Jones, too, though to a lesser extent. These guys were likely that bad.
Last year, Brent had enough confidence in Dawson to play him in quite a few games, even crucial ones and in game-time situations. My point here is that Dawson is getting the Jamal Ferguson treatment, but from what we saw last year, Dawson can handle his own.
If at some point in the season we are figuratively mathematically-eliminated from the tourney, I hope Wojo "rolls the dice" and plays Dawson.
When asked about his grades a person in the know said No, "John has never failed a class at Marquette nor is he failing any now..." He is no where near achedemic probation... So that is certainly not the reason... Hes just getting the Jamal Fergson treatment at this point....
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Hard to know when the filet never gets served in the restaurant.
I worked at a restaurant back in high school. Whenever the chefs created a new dish, they would have the entire wait staff try it to see if it was any good. If it wasn't, it didn't get served.
Maybe there's a parallel than can be drawn...
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I worked at a restaurant back in high school. Whenever the chefs created a new dish, they would have the entire wait staff try it to see if it was any good. If it wasn't, it didn't get served.
Maybe there's a parallel than can be drawn...
Yes, Dawson will get plenty of playing time when we are up 20 with 2 minutes to go. He's a situational player .....
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Yes, Dawson will get plenty of playing time when we are up 20 with 2 minutes to go. He's a situational player .....
Unless we play Wisconsin Lutheran again were not gonna be up by 20 on anyone this year.
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Well, I took a lot of abuse on another board for noting that his actual stats last year were just about the worst in the country. However, that was in very limited playing time, and he looked so good in winning the Georgetown game that I would love to see him get a look. However, big picture I do like that Wojo has seemed to decide on a rotation and stick with it after last year's confusion.
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No doubt about it. We need that 20% FT shooting, non-existent 3 point shooting, and tonight 0 assists. Soon teams will again sag off Derrick and his one effective move - going to his right off the dribble while closely defended - will be gone as he won't be able to get a step due to the defender sagging off of him 5 feet. Our conference foes know his game and won't make the same mistake of guarding him honestly as has every team thus far.
Keep focusing on the box score instead of the game, Ners. Maybe you should tell Wojo about this strategy....
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Are we seriously going to have another season of excuse making from Ners about Dawson... after.. EVERY... F*CKING...GAME???
Last year it was Buzz was sticking it to the administration. This year is Derrick's the "coaches pet." Of course it couldn't be that two highly paid men who do this for a living simply didn't think Magic Dawson isn't good enough right?
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Right, sitting behind him for 35 Mpg is very appealing.... Said Nobody
Then he should leave. If he is so unhappy with his predicament, he can go elsewhere and be satisfied. Life with go on with both parties.
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Are we seriously going to have another season of excuse making from Ners about Dawson... after.. EVERY... F*CKING...GAME???
If this is a poll, my vote is yes. As FreeportWarrior stated in another thread, Ners simply doesn't have the maturity to admit when he is wrong.
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Well, I took a lot of abuse on another board for noting that his actual stats last year were just about the worst in the country. However, that was in very limited playing time, and he looked so good in winning the Georgetown game that I would love to see him get a look. However, big picture I do like that Wojo has seemed to decide on a rotation and stick with it after last year's confusion.
It amazes me how much cherry picking goes on in the Dawson/Wilson debate that, based on the decisions of two highly paid coaching staffs, isn't even a debate. Dawson was bad in limited action. His 84.9 ORtg was the third worst of any player at Marquette in the past decade. The only players to post a worse offensive rating? Dwight Burke & Jamail Jones. Note which name isn't there...Derrick Wilson.
So we hear that Derrick is historically bad, yet Derrick Wilson in his history has never posted a worse offensive season than John Dawson did as a freshman. So cue the excuses...John didn't play enough minutes. But wait...Derrick played about the same minutes as a freshman and posted a higher offensive rating. Derrick's 94.6 ORtg as a junior wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst rating we've seen from a player in college history.
Seriously...the hyperbole is old. Derrick can't shoot threes. Derrick can't shoot free throws. We all know that. But Derrick does provide solid defense (not saying he's MJ, but he's one of the best we have) and knows his weaknesses well enough that he defers to other players. But while we all know what he is, what's more important is that two coaching staffs have told us through minutes what he is as well -- better than the options on the bench.
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No doubt about it. We need that 20% FT shooting, non-existent 3 point shooting, and tonight 0 assists. Soon teams will again sag off Derrick and his one effective move - going to his right off the dribble while closely defended - will be gone as he won't be able to get a step due to the defender sagging off of him 5 feet. Our conference foes know his game and won't make the same mistake of guarding him honestly as has every team thus far.
This.sh!t.again.
Please mods, give this idiot a vacation.
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This.sh!t.again.
Please mods, give this idiot a vacation.
I think the guy who calls people idiots should get the vacation.
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This.sh!t.again.
Please mods, give this idiot a vacation.
Didn't he already ban himself? Oh, wait. You actually need integrity to follow through with what you say. Nevermind.
Talk about complete lack of credibility.
Don't worry though. He has some technicality for why he doesn't have to follow his word.
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This.sh!t.again.
Please mods, give this idiot a vacation.
Hey he has $500 riding on this issue. Easy to see why he is stressing.
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It amazes me how much cherry picking goes on in the Dawson/Wilson debate that, based on the decisions of two highly paid coaching staffs, isn't even a debate. Dawson was bad in limited action. His 84.9 ORtg was the third worst of any player at Marquette in the past decade. The only players to post a worse offensive rating? Dwight Burke & Jamail Jones. Note which name isn't there...Derrick Wilson.
So we hear that Derrick is historically bad, yet Derrick Wilson in his history has never posted a worse offensive season than John Dawson did as a freshman. So cue the excuses...John didn't play enough minutes. But wait...Derrick played about the same minutes as a freshman and posted a higher offensive rating. Derrick's 94.6 ORtg as a junior wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst rating we've seen from a player in college history.
Seriously...the hyperbole is old. Derrick can't shoot threes. Derrick can't shoot free throws. We all know that. But Derrick does provide solid defense (not saying he's MJ, but he's one of the best we have) and knows his weaknesses well enough that he defers to other players. But while we all know what he is, what's more important is that two coaching staffs have told us through minutes what he is as well -- better than the options on the bench.
Try 85.7 for Derrick as a sophomore. And as has been pointed out - O Ratings are greatly inflated by not turning the ball over....which of course...Derrick doesn't do much of. Why doesn't Derrick turn the ball over much? Because he rarely every forces action, penetrates the lane, and generally hasn't been guarded within 5 feet. So, while he might have a nice Assist to Turnover rating, and O Ratings that are inflated due to his limited amount pushing tempo, penetrating the lane - what can't be denied is that the O-Efficiency rating for last year's team was FAR and away the worst of any Buzz team - while we had one of the most efficient college basketball players on the roster - Gardner.
Our team O-Ratings under Buzz: 12, 22, 21, 52, 25, and 96 last year. Hmm - So in Buzz's first 5 years our average rating was 26.4. In Buzz's last - we well to 96th in the country. Hmm. Buzz must have just plain forgotten how to coach a basketball team.
Stats only tell so much of the story. When your eyes watch a game and you can see a player isn't guarded within 5 feet by your conference foes, and you can see the entire offense bog down as a result - it doesn't matter if that player has a "decent" O-Rating generated largely off of never turning the ball over and getting a few assists (usually off perimeter ball swings or to trailers on a modified fast break)
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I could use a vacation
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What he says...
Blah blah blah
What he means...
Maybe if I keep spinning this same line of BS they'll fall for it. After all, I know so much more about basketball than Buzz or Wojo or anyone on this board because I played in high school! Yaaaaaay Me!
** Braces for insults of my critical thinking skills or some other tired retort **
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What he says...
What he means...
** Braces for insults of my critical thinking skills or some other tired retort **
LOL - Just check out my signature Brew. Says all that needs to be said about your astute basketball analysis. You've been humping Derrick's leg for over a year now, and have gotten over 1100 minutes of evidence to see the guy doesn't have it. Meanwhile, my preference, we have 4 minutes of action this season to assess. Sorry, I'd still like to see a little more game evidence as to why a guy who shoots the ball MUCH better, and sees the floor better can't get some run - especially now that we have both Carlino and Duane capable at PG. Hard to wrap your head around why a guy that can't shoot is playing off the ball a ton.
And BTW - wasn't shocked at all to learn you are a Star Wars fan. You most definitely seem the type.
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Try 85.7 for Derrick as a sophomore.
Which is 100% consistent with Brew's statement that Derrick has never had an ORtg as low as John posted last season.
You repeatedly post FG% because it fits your argument, and ignore stats like ORtg because it doesn't...even though ORtg accounts for far more than a single factor.
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Folks, it takes two parties to argue. Juts ignore and move on. There is no hope of changing people's minds on this issue so ... save the energy and have a beer.
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Which is 100% consistent with Brew's statement that Derrick has never had an ORtg as low as John posted last season.
You repeatedly post FG% because it fits your argument, and ignore stats like ORtg because it doesn't...even though ORtg accounts for far more than a single factor.
Yeah, my bad - as a sophomore, Derrick's O-Rating was .08 better than John's as a freshman. Attack the argument: Why do you think Buzz's first 5 teams averaged an team O-Rating of 26th in the country, and then last season we were almost 4 times WORSE than any of Buzz's first 5 teams? Did Buzz just suddenly forget how to coach offense??
I explained Derrick's O-Rating numbers - it rewards not turning the ball over above all else. Why does he not turn the ball over?? Because he RARELY makes plays/plays aggressively. (Which is the EXACT opposite of what a PG should be.) He's your classic game manager QB at best - he's never going to led you on a game winning drive in the 4th quarter in the 2 minute drill so to speak. He's the equivalent of Trent Dilfer on the Baltimore Ravens the year he won his Super Bowl - Hey Trent - just don't F it up, because our defense is so incredible, you won't have to score more than 10 points. Problem is, we aren't good enough defensively (even with Derrick's contributions) to overcome all the warts he presents on the O-end.
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And BTW - wasn't shocked at all to learn you are a Star Wars fan. You most definitely seem the type.
NERD!!! BREW IS A NERD EVERYONE!!!! HE CAN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL!!!! I USED TO LOCK HIS TYPES INSIDE MY LOCKER AFTER I PLAYED VARSITY BASKETBALL!!! (DID EVERYONE KNOW THAT I PLAYED VARSITY BASKETBALL BY THE WAY???) NERD!!!!
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It amazes me how much cherry picking goes on in the Dawson/Wilson debate that, based on the decisions of two highly paid coaching staffs, isn't even a debate. Dawson was bad in limited action. His 84.9 ORtg was the third worst of any player at Marquette in the past decade. The only players to post a worse offensive rating? Dwight Burke & Jamail Jones. Note which name isn't there...Derrick Wilson.
So we hear that Derrick is historically bad, yet Derrick Wilson in his history has never posted a worse offensive season than John Dawson did as a freshman. So cue the excuses...John didn't play enough minutes. But wait...Derrick played about the same minutes as a freshman and posted a higher offensive rating. Derrick's 94.6 ORtg as a junior wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst rating we've seen from a player in college history.
Seriously...the hyperbole is old. Derrick can't shoot threes. Derrick can't shoot free throws. We all know that. But Derrick does provide solid defense (not saying he's MJ, but he's one of the best we have) and knows his weaknesses well enough that he defers to other players. But while we all know what he is, what's more important is that two coaching staffs have told us through minutes what he is as well -- better than the options on the bench.
I generally agree with the Derrick-over-Dawson side of the argument now that a second coach is playing Derrick while burying Dawson on the bench. Both coaches see/saw the players 1000x more than we did, blah blah blah, not gonna rehash it. I thought Dawson should have played more last year because of the "what did we have to lose" argument, but it's ancient history.
In the here and now, I want to see more Duane at point and more JJJ/Cohen on the floor this season, and I'd like those things to come at the expense of Derrick's minutes because I've got my eye on 2015-16 and 2016-17, but maybe that's just me.
Nevertheless ...
ORtg? Effen ORtg? I don't need ORtg or any other stat to tell me that Derrick simply is one of the worst two-year starting major-college PGs I have ever seen. Last season, he was part of perhaps the worst starting major-college backcourt I've ever seen. And I've been closely following college basketball for four decades.
As long as an observer does not have the misfortune of being legally blind, he/she does not need ORtg or any other stats to see this stuff. When a PG can neither shoot nor create for teammates, I don't care what stats say.
And this isn't meant to dump on Derrick, though I know it looks like that's exactly what I'm doing. It isn't his fault he is what he is, because he sure as heck works hard. It also isn't his fault he plays 30+ mpg.
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NERD!!! BREW IS A NERD EVERYONE!!!! HE CAN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL!!!! I USED TO LOCK HIS TYPES INSIDE MY LOCKER AFTER I PLAYED VARSITY BASKETBALL!!! (DID EVERYONE KNOW THAT I PLAYED VARSITY BASKETBALL BY THE WAY???) NERD!!!!
LOL - Yeah, go check out his awesome posts in the Star Wars thread. MEGA NERD! To each their own of course. Different strokes for different folks. While some of us played with basketballs, others were playing with Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker action figures.
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I generally agree with the Derrick-over-Dawson side of the argument now that a second coach is playing Derrick while burying Dawson on the bench. Both coaches see/saw the players 1000x more than we did, blah blah blah, not gonna rehash it. I thought Dawson should have played more last year because of the "what did we have to lose" argument, but it's ancient history.
In the here and now, I want to see more Duane at point and more JJJ/Cohen on the floor this season, and I'd like those things to come at the expense of Derrick's minutes because I've got my eye on 2015-16 and 2016-17, but maybe that's just me.
Nevertheless ...
ORtg? Effen ORtg? I don't need ORtg or any other stat to tell me that Derrick simply is one of the worst two-year starting major-college PGs I have ever seen. Last season, he was part of perhaps the worst starting major-college backcourt I've ever seen. And I've been closely following college basketball for four decades.
As long as an observer does not have the misfortune of being legally blind, he/she does not need ORtg or any other stats to see this stuff. When a PG can neither shoot nor create for teammates, I don't care what stats say.
And this isn't meant to dump on Derrick, though I know it looks like that's exactly what I'm doing. It isn't his fault he is what he is, because he sure as heck works hard. It also isn't his fault he plays 30+ mpg.
I don't think brew would disagree with a single word of this. Those of us who agreed with the decision to play Derrick, freely admitted that he was substandard. The best of bad options.
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LOL - Yeah, go check out his awesome posts in the Star Wars thread. MEGA NERD! To each their own of course. Different strokes for different folks. While some of us played with basketballs, others were playing with Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker action figures.
This is really top notch, middle school level insulting right here.
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This is true...
Folks, it takes two parties to argue. Juts ignore and move on.
But this...
There is no hope of changing people's minds on this issue so ... save the energy and have a beer.
Actually, I have changed my mind on Derrick. Watching how well he played last year from the end of November through the middle of December, I thought he could be a very productive player for us. Over that span he was very efficient, and it wasn't just against cupcakes, but solid teams like Arizona State, George Washington, and San Diego State. At the time, my thought process was that he wasn't good enough to be a star, but he was good enough to be a contributing starter on a good team.
For whatever reason, that didn't happen. Part of it was Derrick's limitations offensively, part of it was the failure of Jamil, Todd, and the others around him to become the consistent, assertive players we needed. But at the end of the day, Derrick was definitely a part of the problem. Not enough of a threat from beyond the arc, and while he does well drawing fouls, he doesn't capitalize often enough when he does. Still a plus defender and excellent at protecting the ball. He has attributes, but there's definitely some glaring holes in his game.
Now I feel I see see Derrick for what he is. Not as good as I hoped he could be, but certainly not as bad as some of the people who worship at the altar of Hate-Derrick think he is. He's a plus defensive player, he does a good job of settling the offense and initiating the offense, but once the ball is out of his hands he doesn't offer much unless he can cut to the rim, which is pretty much his only offensive move. He has okay court vision and creates some nice assists, but he can only go right and doesn't possess enough of a shooting threat to pull defenders to him, so he accounts for fewer assists than he could if he were a better shooter. I do really like that he can play both on the inside and outside of the zone, thanks to his strength.
As far as the quote Ners likes to display, I stand by it. Junior would not have fixed the problems with last year's team. What last year needed was an aggressive, attacking offensive player. What last year needed was Vander Blue. Junior would have probably helped us win 3-4 games that we lost because Derrick wasn't enough of a threat, but Junior also would have lost us 2-3 games that we would have won because of Junior's porous defense and tendencies to turn the ball over. Junior would have maybe given us 1-2 more wins, but we wouldn't have been markedly better and we wouldn't have been a tournament team, unless you count the NIT.
I feel a wise man is one who is willing to change his opinion when evidence is presented. My opinion on Derrick has definitely changed. Still love the kid, but he's at best probably going to be the worst starter on a tournament team, and only then when surrounded by an excellent supporting cast (which last year he definitely was not), and is far better suited to be a reliable backup who specializes in coming in to help defend a lead. But on last year's team and this year's team, there simply aren't enough other options.
Blame Buzz for not recruiting enough quality players in the backcourt, blame Junior for burning his redshirt and not being around last year, blame Duane for not being healthy enough to play last year, but don't blame Derrick or John for not being good enough. I will give both of those kids this -- they do give their all when given a chance. In both cases, it's not enough to make them difference-makers on a regular basis, but they both compete and have given a ton more to Marquette than anyone else on this board.
And if I'm overly critical of John sometimes...I do apologize for that. I admit I defend Derrick but only because his haters are so maniacal in the way they try to manufacture criticisms. Their use of John Dawson as a straw man leads to him somewhat being an unfair scapegoat, both for their unjustified praise and my (and others) unjustified criticisms.
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This is really top notch, middle school level insulting right here.
Thanks Sultan. But why are you in the middle of this discussion right now?
Brew asked for an insult, and I gave him a nice a little shot on the Star Wars love - as well as his genius take on last season's team being better off with Derrick at the point than Cadougan. LOL
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LOL - Yeah, go check out his awesome posts in the Star Wars thread. MEGA NERD! To each their own of course. Different strokes for different folks. While some of us played with basketballs, others were playing with Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker action figures.
What you have just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in this rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything resembling a rational argument as to your "superior knowledge". Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
One thing is for sure...Ners is the easiest guy to troll in the history of the Internet
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On this board, it's really easy to tell which people peaked in high school, like Ners for example.
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What you have just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in this rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything resembling a rational argument as to your "superior knowledge". Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
One thing is for sure...Ners is the easiest guy to troll in the history of the Internet
LOL. Touche Brew. Touche.
And btw: Todd Mayo = Vander Blue. Last year's team wasn't missing Vander nearly as much as it was Junior.
And really, you should take a little of your own advice: Stop trying to manufacture praises of Derrick. (With regard to his basketball talents at this level.)
If you and your other 7 Star Wars buddies would stop trying to put lipstick on a pig, perhaps the other side wouldn't need to be as critical of Derrick.
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LOL. Touche Brew. Touche.
And btw: Todd Mayo = Vander Blue. Last year's team wasn't missing Vander nearly as much as it was Junior.
And really, you should take a little of your own advice: Stop trying to manufacture praises of Derrick. (With regard to his basketball talents at this level.)
If you and your other 7 Star Wars buddies would stop trying to put lipstick on a pig, perhaps the other side wouldn't need to be as critical of Derrick.
If Todd was equal to Vander, we would have been a tourney team last year. Vander won games for us, Todd lost games for us. Further, Todd exacerbated things with off-court issues that finally got him kicked off the team this year.
That said, had Vander come back, it would have solved both problems. Vander would have been playing with Todd rather than instead of him. Vander would have been a better backcourt partner for Derrick, Todd, and Jake each individually than any of those players was for each other.
As I posted before the page turn, Derrick has his assets and he has his flaws. He's not as good as I hoped he would be, but he sure as hell isn't as bad as you try to paint him to be. Just because you try to smear ink on Derrick's resume doesn't make you Picasso.
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Brew asked for an insult, and I gave him a nice a little shot on the Star Wars love - as well as his genius take on last season's team being better off with Derrick at the point than Cadougan. LOL
Just to cover things, if this helps...
- I watch soccer and get bored watching American football
- When I was at Marquette, I had a foot-high multi-colored mohawk
- Not only did I watch Star Wars, I also have read Star Wars novels
- I also read comic books
- I only played football and basketball up to 8th grade, and after a year of cross-country in high school didn't play any more sports
- I am a big Joss Whedon fan, not just his work on Avengers, but going back to Firefly, Angel, and Buffy
- I still like to read books, both fiction and non-fiction.
- I enjoy a good romantic comedy, and am a huge fan of Love Actually
- I read Game of Thrones before I watched it
- While I never followed a band on tour, I have traveled cross-country to go see punk rock shows
- I like carving pumpkins, and we don't even have kids
- I do virtually all the cooking in our house and most of the cleaning
.
If any of these things make you feel better about yourself and more manly, then have fun with them. Also, if you think that they give you superior basketball knowledge, know that you are a clueless idiot because none of these have any bearing on basketball.
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Just to cover things, if this helps...
- I watch soccer and get bored watching American football
- When I was at Marquette, I had a foot-high multi-colored mohawk
- Not only did I watch Star Wars, I also have read Star Wars novels
- I also read comic books
- I only played football and basketball up to 8th grade, and after a year of cross-country in high school didn't play any more sports
- I am a big Joss Whedon fan, not just his work on Avengers, but going back to Firefly, Angel, and Buffy
- I still like to read books, both fiction and non-fiction.
- I enjoy a good romantic comedy, and am a huge fan of Love Actually
- I read Game of Thrones before I watched it
[*]While I never followed a band on tour, I have traveled cross-country to go see punk rock shows
- I like carving pumpkins, and we don't even have kids
- I do virtually all the cooking in our house and most of the cleaning
.
If any of these things make you feel better about yourself and more manly, then have fun with them. Also, if you think that they give you superior basketball knowledge, know that you are a clueless idiot because none of these have any bearing on basketball.
Impressive you stayed with that at MU. I was super into punk in High school and Marquette took that out of me.
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If Todd was equal to Vander, we would have been a tourney team last year. Vander won games for us, Todd lost games for us. Further, Todd exacerbated things with off-court issues that finally got him kicked off the team this year.
That said, had Vander come back, it would have solved both problems. Vander would have been playing with Todd rather than instead of him. Vander would have been a better backcourt partner for Derrick, Todd, and Jake each individually than any of those players was for each other.
As I posted before the page turn, Derrick has his assets and he has his flaws. He's not as good as I hoped he would be, but he sure as hell isn't as bad as you try to paint him to be. Just because you try to smear ink on Derrick's resume doesn't make you Picasso.
I can agree it would have been much better to have Vander playing alongside of Todd last year (with Derrick). Of course much better than Jake.
However, in the E8 season, Todd had little impact due to missing first half of the season, and not playing much once eligible. That team had same guys on it other than Cadougan and Lockett from last year's team.
Todd, last season, hardly did things to "lose games for us." He rallied us many times, hit many clutch shots, just as many as Vander did - if not more - while having to play alongside Derrick and Jake. Much more difficult to succeed with them as a backcourt pairing than what Vander got as a junior with Lockett and Cadougan. Todd's stats as a junior were every bit as good as Vander's and in many cases slightly better. That's part of my point - Todd essentially replaced what Vander was to the E8 team - yet last year's team then was "down" Cadougan and Lockett. I don't believe missing Lockett was the difference between being an E8 team and missing the NIT.
As for Derrick - we obviously disagree. I feel you greatly embellish his play, you feel I exaggerate his deficiencies. Fair enough.
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Just to cover things, if this helps...
- I watch soccer and get bored watching American football
- When I was at Marquette, I had a foot-high multi-colored mohawk
- Not only did I watch Star Wars, I also have read Star Wars novels
- I also read comic books
- I only played football and basketball up to 8th grade, and after a year of cross-country in high school didn't play any more sports
- I am a big Joss Whedon fan, not just his work on Avengers, but going back to Firefly, Angel, and Buffy
- I still like to read books, both fiction and non-fiction.
- I enjoy a good romantic comedy, and am a huge fan of Love Actually
- I read Game of Thrones before I watched it
- While I never followed a band on tour, I have traveled cross-country to go see punk rock shows
- I like carving pumpkins, and we don't even have kids
- I do virtually all the cooking in our house and most of the cleaning
.
If any of these things make you feel better about yourself and more manly, then have fun with them. Also, if you think that they give you superior basketball knowledge, know that you are a clueless idiot because none of these have any bearing on basketball.
Good to have a wide variety of hobbies and interests. Happy for you that you find many things in life that you enjoy. You make a good number of basketball related points and posts Brew - and demonstrate overall good knowledge of the game. That said, we have and will always greatly disagree on Derrick and his pros/cons toward the end result on the basketball court.
Here's a question:
Given that Duane and Carlino both show they can be effective as primary ball handlers/PG's - do you not feel Derrick's role should be greatly diminished? Yet last night he got 32 minutes while Duane and Carlino got 30 and 38 respectively? Would you not rather see JJJ/Cohen or Dawson get a good chunk of those minutes - guys who can all shoot it better? Is Derrick's defense THAT good that it warrants 32? I just don't see it - Derrick is a good defender - but by no means great or so good that it offsets his warts offensively.
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Its safe to say this thread has got more attention than the last game and will certainly get more than Jerrone Maymons old team tonite.
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Given that Duane and Carlino both show they can be effective as primary ball handlers/PG's
Duane has done his best work of the season off the ball. He has only had a handful of possessions when he was the point. Starters based on work this far should be Carlino at point, Duane at SG, Derrick backing up Carlino and JJJ backing up Duane.
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I will state again that Derrick Wilson is not a good point guard. He was a problem with last years team and he will lose PT this year to Carlino and Duane.
With that said, Wilson wasn't the problem with last year's team. I agree that Junior would have made the team better but only maybe NIT better.
1. Senior leadership - neither Wilson or Gardner took the reigns of the team last year. They didn't get angry when the team wasn't producing. Both played like someone else will step up.
2. As good as Gardner was, an extremely efficient player within 5 ft. He needed to be within 5ft to be effective. As much as people blame Derrick, Gardner wasn't able to change his game to prevent the guards from sagging. He needed a guard who could get him the ball in his sweet spot. Not something that says he could do it on his own. His defense was also limited as he had a hard time with athletic bigs.
3. Mayo had no desire to play in a system. When he was in the game it was Mayo on five on offense. That is not a winning strategy and it is also why he didn't get minutes. It works for short stretches but the defense will adjust and shut him down.
4. Jake couldn't create his own shot either. He stood around a good amount
5. OTule was not great on offense but was a much better defender to DG.
6. Buzz tried to find something that worked including Oxtule which didn't work because DG and OTule would both get exposed on the perimeter.
7. As much as you say Mayo = vander it isn't true. Mayo was close to 1.5 years older than Blue yet mayo's freshman yr was a year later than Blue's. When you compare at the same age Vander is much better. When Vander left the team got worse, when Mayo left the team got better.
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I will state again that Derrick Wilson is not a good point guard. He was a problem with last years team and he will lose PT this year to Carlino and Duane.
With that said, Wilson wasn't the problem with last year's team. I agree that Junior would have made the team better but only maybe NIT better.
1. Senior leadership - neither Wilson or Gardner took the reigns of the team last year. They didn't get angry when the team wasn't producing. Both played like someone else will step up.
2. As good as Gardner was, an extremely efficient player within 5 ft. He needed to be within 5ft to be effective. As much as people blame Derrick, Gardner wasn't able to change his game to prevent the guards from sagging. He needed a guard who could get him the ball in his sweet spot. Not something that says he could do it on his own. His defense was also limited as he had a hard time with athletic bigs.
3. Mayo had no desire to play in a system. When he was in the game it was Mayo on five on offense. That is not a winning strategy and it is also why he didn't get minutes. It works for short stretches but the defense will adjust and shut him down.
4. Jake couldn't create his own shot either. He stood around a good amount
5. OTule was not great on offense but was a much better defender to DG.
6. Buzz tried to find something that worked including Oxtule which didn't work because DG and OTule would both get exposed on the perimeter.
7. As much as you say Mayo = vander it isn't true. Mayo was close to 1.5 years older than Blue yet mayo's freshman yr was a year later than Blue's. When you compare at the same age Vander is much better. When Vander left the team got worse, when Mayo left the team got better.
"Leadership" can't overcome playing 4 on 5 at the O-end. Gardner showed many times (Syracuse game comes to mind) he was very effective at high post hitting FT line jumper.
Gardner COULDN'T operate last season due to the backcourt Buzz played max minutes. Same with Jamil. Seriously, for about the 100th time - you are a coach and face a lineup of: Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil and Otule - who are you taking away?
You can hate on Mayo the person (and btw, Vander wasn't an angel while at MU by any stretch of the imagination), but you don't have to hate the player through that bias. Mayo assisted at a better rate last season than Vander ever did (so he did share the ball better than Vander), yet he was surrounded by far less talented offensive players (Derrick and Jake), which should result in fewer assists. Plus, who did you want taking shots on that team last year??? I sure was grateful Todd "showed leadership" and took matters into his own times at hands. But then again, that makes him have "no desire to play in a system." Yet you lament Gardner and Jamil not getting angry and taking the bull by the horns.
How many contradictions can you make in one post?
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Here's a question:
Given that Duane and Carlino both show they can be effective as primary ball handlers/PG's - do you not feel Derrick's role should be greatly diminished? Yet last night he got 32 minutes while Duane and Carlino got 30 and 38 respectively? Would you not rather see JJJ/Cohen or Dawson get a good chunk of those minutes - guys who can all shoot it better? Is Derrick's defense THAT good that it warrants 32? I just don't see it - Derrick is a good defender - but by no means great or so good that it offsets his warts offensively.
Why has two coaching staffs decided to play him that much? Because they feel he gives them the best chance to win.
John hasn't shown he should get more minutes to the coaches and to be honest JJJ hasn't shown he is the guy either. I would like him to be but how is it that 3 "PGs" got nearly all of the time. Cohen is a freshman and will get better with age. He might get better minutes once he adds bulk.
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Why has two coaching staffs decided to play him that much? Because they feel he gives them the best chance to win.
John hasn't shown he should get more minutes to the coaches and to be honest JJJ hasn't shown he is the guy either. I would like him to be but how is it that 3 "PGs" got nearly all of the time. Cohen is a freshman and will get better with age. He might get better minutes once he adds bulk.
Lol. @ He gives us the best chance to win.
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Lol. @ He gives us the best chance to win.
Take it up with Buzz and Wojo. For as much as you and Ners rip on him he still plays. As a founding member of the tin foil club, you believe this has more to do more with getting back at the administration, reliving Wojo's glory days, the winter solstice, proper sweeping technique of gym floors and anything else which says it can't be that two coaches staffs are saying he provides more value then the next guy. Then again, those evil coaches don't like the next guy and want him to transfer.
It is a very simple fact. Two coaching staffs are saying Derrick Wilson makes us better than not playing him. I would love it if that wasn't the case but I don't make up stuff to make me feel better about the team over the last two years. Maybe when Luke is ready to play he can push everyone up a position and Derrick's time is limited.
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Wojo hasn't tan a traditional point guard, instead running more a 2 PG, 2 wing, 1 forward setup at most times. That means at virtually all times we'll have 2 of Derrick, Carlino, and Duane out there. Those three will play 80 minutes at the two point positions. Ideally, I think that means 30 mpg each for Duane and Carlino and 20 for Derrick. As both Carlino and Duane can play up at the wings, either could get more than 30 any night.
The question then becomes whether the others you mention can play down. I don't think any of those guys can play down, and each has their own flaws. Jajuan gambles a lot for steals, which takes him out of position on defense, and his shot selection can be questionable. Sandy is also a defensive liability, and also has shot selection issues. That will all hopefully come in time. But right now I'd rather see periods with all three points on the floor with Duane or Carlino playing up than periods where 2 of them are on the bench.
As far as Dawson, there's no way to say definitively what he would or wouldn't bring. Based on his history, the excellent Georgetown game seems to be the outlier. I don't believe any of these coaches have conspiratorial reasons to block Dawson. Everything I've heard is that he simply isn't good enough in practice to take minutes. Nothing against John, but it is what it is.
The real problem though is that Derrick is our only plus defender. He's like a quarterback on defense, even in the zone making sure guys are in position. Matt's feet are too slow and hee commits too many fouls after he's already beat. Duane and Cohen just don't have the experience yet. Burton and Jajuan both gamble on steals too much and neither are close to even being average defenders. Steve clearly is overmatched by most centers and forwards. Of our entire lineup, only Juan is even an average defender.
If we had numerous other good defenders it might be a different story. We don't. The analogy was always playing 4-on-5 with Derrick. But when it comes to decent defenders, even with Derrick we are playing 2-on-5. The zone is helping. The deficiencies of guys like Carlino and Jajuan have been diminished. But it's still nice to have one above average defender out there even if he's inefficient on offense.
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Just to cover things, if this helps...
- I watch soccer and get bored watching American football
- When I was at Marquette, I had a foot-high multi-colored mohawk
- Not only did I watch Star Wars, I also have read Star Wars novels
- I also read comic books
- I only played football and basketball up to 8th grade, and after a year of cross-country in high school didn't play any more sports
- I am a big Joss Whedon fan, not just his work on Avengers, but going back to Firefly, Angel, and Buffy
- I still like to read books, both fiction and non-fiction.
- I enjoy a good romantic comedy, and am a huge fan of Love Actually
- I read Game of Thrones before I watched it
- While I never followed a band on tour, I have traveled cross-country to go see punk rock shows
- I like carving pumpkins, and we don't even have kids
- I do virtually all the cooking in our house and most of the cleaning
.
If any of these things make you feel better about yourself and more manly, then have fun with them. Also, if you think that they give you superior basketball knowledge, know that you are a clueless idiot because none of these have any bearing on basketball.
What a renaissance man
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Boiled down simply, Derrick is our ONLY above average defender. Juan is average, everyone else is poor defensively. Derrick's offense may be poor, but we can surround him with 4 players to mute that deficiency. However Derrick is the only player on the entire team that can mute the defensive deficiencies of the 4 guys he's on the floor with.
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"Leadership" can't overcome playing 4 on 5 at the O-end. Gardner showed many times (Syracuse game comes to mind) he was very effective at high post hitting FT line jumper.
Gardner COULDN'T operate last season due to the backcourt Buzz played max minutes. Same with Jamil. Seriously, for about the 100th time - you are a coach and face a lineup of: Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil and Otule - who are you taking away?
You can hate on Mayo the person (and btw, Vander wasn't an angel while at MU by any stretch of the imagination), but you don't have to hate the player through that bias. Mayo assisted at a better rate last season than Vander ever did (so he did share the ball better than Vander), yet he was surrounded by far less talented offensive players (Derrick and Jake), which should result in fewer assists. Plus, who did you want taking shots on that team last year??? I sure was grateful Todd "showed leadership" and took matters into his own times at hands. But then again, that makes him have "no desire to play in a system." Yet you lament Gardner and Jamil not getting angry and taking the bull by the horns.
How many contradictions can you make in one post?
My point to you is that it is a team game. We had a team if mismatched players with very distinct weaknesses. All you can see or want to see is one of them. Would Junior have made the team better yes but would that have radically changed the outcome...no. I have given you multiple examples of our challenges but you can only go back to one thing.
Please point out one contradiction.
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Yeah, my bad - as a sophomore, Derrick's O-Rating was .08 better than John's as a freshman. Attack the argument: Why do you think Buzz's first 5 teams averaged an team O-Rating of 26th in the country, and then last season we were almost 4 times WORSE than any of Buzz's first 5 teams? Did Buzz just suddenly forget how to coach offense??
I explained Derrick's O-Rating numbers - it rewards not turning the ball over above all else. Why does he not turn the ball over?? Because he RARELY makes plays/plays aggressively. (Which is the EXACT opposite of what a PG should be.) He's your classic game manager QB at best - he's never going to led you on a game winning drive in the 4th quarter in the 2 minute drill so to speak. He's the equivalent of Trent Dilfer on the Baltimore Ravens the year he won his Super Bowl - Hey Trent - just don't F it up, because our defense is so incredible, you won't have to score more than 10 points. Problem is, we aren't good enough defensively (even with Derrick's contributions) to overcome all the warts he presents on the O-end.
Attack the argument? OK. Your basic premise that the ORtg overemphasizes not turning the ball over is flawed. Keeping possession of the ball is critically important, even if it means a slower offense. Run and push the ball all you want...but if you give it away, you simply aren't going to score. Pretty hard to overemphasize that.
And for what it's worth, Derrick IS pushing the ball more this season and attacking the defense...and he still has lower tpg numbers than Matt and Duane. How about that - upping the offensive pressure while still protecting the ball?
And that's just offense. Derrick is not a great defender, but he is probably the best on-ball defender we have right now.
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Duane has done his best work of the season off the ball. He has only had a handful of possessions when he was the point. Starters based on work this far should be Carlino at point, Duane at SG, Derrick backing up Carlino and JJJ backing up Duane.
Except that this team really needs three if not four guards on the court at all times given our lack of post players. You're asking Taylor who is a natural 4 to play the 5. Anderson is a 3 who's playing 4 if not 5 at times. Burton is a 3 who's playing a ton of 4.
The reality is that three of our guards need to be on the floor at all times. Derrick Wilson is one of the best three guards on the team when you factor his overall game compared to JJJ at this time.
I'M NOT A DERRICK WILSON SUPPORTER. It's just the truth. Obviously we all would hope that Johnson develops over the year and he is indeed the better overall player at some point, but as of now Derrick is a better player.
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Attack the argument? OK. Your basic premise that the ORtg overemphasizes not turning the ball over is flawed. Keeping possession of the ball is critically important, even if it means a slower offense. Run and push the ball all you want...but if you give it away, you simply aren't going to score. Pretty hard to overemphasize that.
And for what it's worth, Derrick IS pushing the ball more this season and attacking the defense...and he still has lower tpg numbers than Matt and Duane. How about that - upping the offensive pressure while still protecting the ball?
And that's just offense. Derrick is not a great defender, but he is probably the best on-ball defender we have right now.
Thank you for reiterating ORtg because while I do like Ners, he has no comprehension of how that statistic is measured.
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I could use a vacation
gonna hump the old lady at the Sybaris again this year?
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I will state again that Derrick Wilson is not a good point guard. He was a problem with last years team and he will lose PT this year to Carlino and Duane.
With that said, Wilson wasn't the problem with last year's team. I agree that Junior would have made the team better but only maybe NIT better.
1. Senior leadership - neither Wilson or Gardner took the reigns of the team last year. They didn't get angry when the team wasn't producing. Both played like someone else will step up.
2. As good as Gardner was, an extremely efficient player within 5 ft. He needed to be within 5ft to be effective. As much as people blame Derrick, Gardner wasn't able to change his game to prevent the guards from sagging. He needed a guard who could get him the ball in his sweet spot. Not something that says he could do it on his own. His defense was also limited as he had a hard time with athletic bigs.
3. Mayo had no desire to play in a system. When he was in the game it was Mayo on five on offense. That is not a winning strategy and it is also why he didn't get minutes. It works for short stretches but the defense will adjust and shut him down.
4. Jake couldn't create his own shot either. He stood around a good amount
5. OTule was not great on offense but was a much better defender to DG.
6. Buzz tried to find something that worked including Oxtule which didn't work because DG and OTule would both get exposed on the perimeter.
7. As much as you say Mayo = vander it isn't true. Mayo was close to 1.5 years older than Blue yet mayo's freshman yr was a year later than Blue's. When you compare at the same age Vander is much better. When Vander left the team got worse, when Mayo left the team got better.
You make a lot of good points. The only thing I would add is when you take the points you make, and then add in Buzz's crazy substitution pattern, it was a prescription for failure. I think Derrick was the constant in this unsavory brew do to his max minutes. Now we are in a new year and he is getting max minutes again, but the remainder of the mix is more stable and has room for improvement, which should hopefully result in some positive things.
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Buzz's substitution patterns last year were no different than previous years.
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You make a lot of good points. The only thing I would add is when you take the points you make, and then add in Buzz's crazy substitution pattern, it was a prescription for failure. I think Derrick was the constant in this unsavory brew do to his max minutes. Now we are in a new year and he is getting max minutes again, but the remainder of the mix is more stable and has room for improvement, which should hopefully result in some positive things.
Some would call it maniacal but I really think he was looking for a combination that worked consistently.
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gonna hump the old lady at the Sybaris again this year?
Bringin' 2 cans of Lysol with.
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Bringin' 2 cans of Lysol with.
For her or the room?
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Lol. @ He gives us the best chance to win.
Against Micigan St. we were up 5 early when Derrick went to the bench. We were down 6 when he came back in. He clearly makes the team better.
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As I understand it, there is a completely rational explanation as to why Dawson isn't playing, and it's probably buried somewhere either on this thread or one of the eleven hundred seventy-nine other threads on the topic... I just haven't gone through all of them because I like to be more productive in my wastes of time.
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As I think about it more and more, nailing Dawson to the bench to force a transfer just doesn't seem like something that Wojo would do. Call me naive, but Wojo has emphasized open communication and player relationships from day one. Trying to ice a guy out for a transfer doesn't seem like him at all. But Wojo also seems like a competitor, he's not going to play someone unless he thinks playing them will help the team. Unless there is off the court issues (which doesn't seem like John), I really think the only explanation is that Wojo simply doesn't think Dawson helps the team at this time. We've never had a large enough lead to justify playing a guy just to get him some playing time. I bet against one of the upcoming cupcakes we will see some minutes for Johnny D.
What do others think? Does playing less talented players over Dawson to force a transfer seem like something Wojo would do?
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What do others think? Does playing less talented players over Dawson to force a transfer seem like something Wojo would do?
No. Simply because you don't have to do it. You can simply inform them that they are not in your plans.
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No. Simply because you don't have to do it. You can simply inform them that they are not in your plans.
True indeed no need to delay the inevitable....
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Something tells me for all the mystery people seem to think is happening on these message boards, I have a feeling it's not nearly so mysterious inside the Al. I feel pretty confident that Dawson knows why he isn't playing and if any discussions about transferring are to be had, they are likely already either going on or have happened.
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True indeed no need to delay the inevitable....
Well just because he isn't playing this year doesn't mean that he isn't part of future plans. Look, if Dawson improves, there is plenty of time available next year with Matt and Derrick leaving. To TAMU's point, I would hope that Wojo is communicating this with Dawson and not just shutting him out. If Wojo is signs a Juco 1/2, and reports are suggesting that he is at least looking at options, I would hope that he makes it clear with Dawson where he stands and what he needs to do to get playing time in the future.
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Something tells me for all the mystery people seem to think is happening on these message boards, I have a feeling it's not nearly so mysterious inside the Al. I feel pretty confident that Dawson knows why he isn't playing and if any discussions about transferring are to be had, they are likely already either going on or have happened.
This question isnt about Dawson, but if you or your child were in the same situation.... Would you transfer to a school were you can play or stay put and try to get pt with a Top 5 class coming in next year?? Just asking... anyone can answer
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This question isnt about Dawson, but if you or your child were in the same situation.... Would you transfer to a school were you can play or stay put and try to get pt with a Top 5 class coming in next year?? Just asking... anyone can answer
I think it all depends on the situation. Is John loving the Marquette experience? Is it possible that he still loves being on the team, even if he isn't getting PT? Does he feel he's growing as a player, and does he see a possible opportunity to be more of a contributor in the next couple years as Matt & Derrick leave, or does he feel that the addition of Noskowiak and Cheatham will make it even harder to break into the backcourt?
Same goes for the family. Is John happy? Do they feel he's growing as a man? Is he getting an education that will set him up for a good future? Would transferring and getting more PT make him happier or would he rather try to earn PT as an upperclassman on a team with NCAA hopes? Without knowing what's going on inside the heads of the people involved and the conversations they've had, it's really hard to say.
I think at this point John & his family have come to grips with the likely reality that he isn't a NBA player? If they have accepted that, then it changes the conversation. Would you rather be a role-player on a team that could contend for a high-major league and possibly make some noise in the tournament, or be a starter on a low-major team whose only hope of getting in is a conference tourney? Not knowing the family and situation, I can't say, but I can see an argument for both sides.
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This question isnt about Dawson, but if you or your child were in the same situation.... Would you transfer to a school were you can play or stay put and try to get pt with a Top 5 class coming in next year?? Just asking... anyone can answer
If John likes Marquette and feels he is getting a good education, I'd tell him to stay. The evidence seems to indicate that he probably isn't going to make much of a living playing ball anyhow, so the focus of his decision shouldn't be on playing time - it should be on being a good teammate, enjoying the college experience, and getting a degree that will help him in the next phase of his life.
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This question isnt about Dawson, but if you or your child were in the same situation.... Would you transfer to a school were you can play or stay put and try to get pt with a Top 5 class coming in next year?? Just asking... anyone can answer
I would encourage my child to wait out the year, and then have a conversation with the coach about what he sees regarding my role moving forward and what the options might be. If the coach said things that leads me to believe that he is part of the plans, I would encourage him to stay. If not, then I would help him look for a new home.
I think the issue is the idea that Wojo is nailing Dawson to the bench to encourage a transfer. I think brew is exactly right when he says that the communication between player and coach is stronger than that.
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If John likes Marquette and feels he is getting a good education, I'd tell him to stay. The evidence seems to indicate that he probably isn't going to make much of a living playing ball anyhow, so the focus of his decision shouldn't be on playing time - it should be on being a good teammate, enjoying the college experience, and getting a degree that will help him in the next phase of his life.
Alot of players make a living off basketball even if its overseas.... I didnt even know until recently Jake Thomas is playing overseas, and not many woulda said Dwight Buycks would be getting paid to play either.. Not saying he is either but strange things have happened...
http://journaltimes.com/sports/basketball/thomas-signs-pro-deal-with-swiss-team/article_63e13dfa-ef8f-11e3-b41c-0019bb2963f4.html
So without seeing him play legit minutes I wouldn't close the book on his future chances plus hes only 19.
I seen Sterling Gibbs go from buried on University Of Texas bench leaving for Seton Hall and dropping 40 the other night so anything is possible.
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I like Dawson's game. And if we're playing a 2-3 anyway, I really don't see any reason why he can't get some burn unless a transfer discussion has already taken place. Derrick's only advantage over anyone is his on-ball extended man defense. In the zone we're playing, that advantage is mitigated if not rendered nearly moot altogether in my opinion. I like the guy, but can we all agree that it's a bit head scratching that he's seeing 30+ mpg AGAIN this year?
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This question isnt about Dawson, but if you or your child were in the same situation.... Would you transfer to a school were you can play or stay put and try to get pt with a Top 5 class coming in next year?? Just asking... anyone can answer
I feel like its pretty simple. If he and Wojo talk and decided that Dawson is going to have a role his happy with next season, then he stays. If he's not going to have a role he's happy with, he leaves. If he leaves, it probably doesn't affect MU very much because I assume if he was going to play a critical role, than he would stay. I hope he finds the best option for himself as a player and a student.
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I like Dawson's game. And if we're playing a 2-3 anyway, I really don't see any reason why he can't get some burn unless a transfer discussion has already taken place. Derrick's only advantage over anyone is his on-ball extended man defense. In the zone we're playing, that advantage is mitigated if not rendered nearly moot altogether in my opinion. I like the guy, but can we all agree that it's a bit head scratching that he's seeing 30+ mpg AGAIN this year?
Actually there is a real good reason. He isn't as good as you think he is.
That being said, you very well could be right. And Wojo is bringing him on road trips just in case there are injury issues and he might be needed.
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Actually there is a real good reason. He isn't as good as you think he is.
That being said, you very well could be right. And Wojo is bringing him on road trips just in case there are injury issues and he might be needed.
Ha, okay. But you ignored the other point. I know Dawson has a functional offensive game. I've seen it. It includes the basic skills required to produce a basket. Derrick's offensive skills boil down to not turning the ball over. That's it. If we're playing a 2-3 zone, his on-ball defensive advantage over other players becomes less relevant, almost to the point of irrelevancy altogether. It would make sense that a player at the same position who has demonstrated some offensive aptitude would get some PT in this new defensive paradigm unless there were other factors at play. Not that outrageous.
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Alot of players make a living off basketball even if its overseas.... I didnt even know until recently Jake Thomas is playing overseas, and not many woulda said Dwight Buycks would be getting paid to play either.. Not saying he is either but strange things have happened...
http://journaltimes.com/sports/basketball/thomas-signs-pro-deal-with-swiss-team/article_63e13dfa-ef8f-11e3-b41c-0019bb2963f4.html
So without seeing him play legit minutes I wouldn't close the book on his future chances plus hes only 19.
I seen Sterling Gibbs go from buried on University Of Texas bench leaving for Seton Hall and dropping 40 the other night so anything is possible.
Not saying it isn't possible, but the likelihood of making a meaningful living is waning. The analogy I'd give is an engineering major who has been giving it his all, but is mid second year with a C average. Could he still get a good job in engineering? Absolutely. But as the parent of such a student, I'd be suggesting that he at least be thinking about alternate career options.
And while it's nice to see that Jake is still playing, I'm guessing the Swiss league isn't exactly the pathway to a comfortable retirement. The article doesn't say what he is making...but I'm betting he isn't going to be padding a retirement account with the earnings.
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Ha, okay. But you ignored the other point. I know Dawson has a functional offensive game. I've seen it. It includes the basic skills required to produce a basket. Derrick's offensive skills boil down to not turning the ball over. That's it. If we're playing a 2-3 zone, his on-ball defensive advantage over other players becomes less relevant, almost to the point of irrelevancy altogether. It would make sense that a player at the same position who has demonstrated some offensive aptitude would get some PT in this new defensive paradigm unless there were other factors at play. Not that outrageous.
I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game. Now if they start sagging 5 feet off him again, then I'll agree. But I think Derrick's offense has been just fine to start the year.
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I like Dawson's game. And if we're playing a 2-3 anyway, I really don't see any reason why he can't get some burn unless a transfer discussion has already taken place. Derrick's only advantage over anyone is his on-ball extended man defense. In the zone we're playing, that advantage is mitigated if not rendered nearly moot altogether in my opinion. I like the guy, but can we all agree that it's a bit head scratching that he's seeing 30+ mpg AGAIN this year?
Well John certainly can play and for Derrick to be playing 30+ MPG and you not even play a second in 5 straight games has to have you wondering.....
I mean Derrick plays good defense but hes not Gary Payton nor will he get paid to play ever on any level (we all know this).....
So as Sultan said there are alotta questions that don't have answers. The semester ends Dec 15th so we'll see if he stays or goes.
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Ha, okay. But you ignored the other point. I know Dawson has a functional offensive game. I've seen it. It includes the basic skills required to produce a basket. Derrick's offensive skills boil down to not turning the ball over. That's it. If we're playing a 2-3 zone, his on-ball defensive advantage over other players becomes less relevant, almost to the point of irrelevancy altogether. It would make sense that a player at the same position who has demonstrated some offensive aptitude would get some PT in this new defensive paradigm unless there were other factors at play. Not that outrageous.
If John could master the zone, it would be an option. The zone in my opinion is a harder defense to master. Man-to-man is more than on ball defense including rotations, help defense, and proper switching. In my opinion, he was struggling on man-to-man defense on rotations as well. With that he will most definitely struggle in a zone.
Secondly, is John strong enough to play down low? With the guys being on the shorter side people are playing out of position. Derrick being the strongest, he is taking the low end of the zone. Is Dawson strong enough to play that role? I don't think he is yet.
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I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game. Now if they start sagging 5 feet off him again, then I'll agree. But I think Derrick's offense has been just fine to start the year.
Well, he still can't shoot with 1-7 from three point land and 5-14 from the charity stripe. His offensive game is the same as last year with drives and putbacks.
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I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game. Now if they start sagging 5 feet off him again, then I'll agree. But I think Derrick's offense has been just fine to start the year.
If you mean it's slightly improved vs. last year, then we are in tacit agreement. But compared to every other high major point guard, it's not even close to where it needs to be to justify ~35 mpg. He is not a threat from 3 at all, his FT% resembles an MVP slugger's batting average, and he rarely forces action to create an easy basket for others. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what defines "just fine" offense from the PG position at the high major level.
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If John could master the zone, it would be an option. The zone in my opinion is a harder defense to master. Man-to-man is more than on ball defense including rotations, help defense, and proper switching. In my opinion, he was struggling on man-to-man defense on rotations as well. With that he will most definitely struggle in a zone.
Secondly, is John strong enough to play down low? With the guys being on the shorter side people are playing out of position. Derrick being the strongest, he is taking the low end of the zone. Is Dawson strong enough to play that role? I don't think he is yet.
The zone defense is veeeeerrry hard to master. Picking spots knowing spaces, rotations, being in postition thats all no easy fish to fry.
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If John could master the zone, it would be an option. The zone in my opinion is a harder defense to master. Man-to-man is more than on ball defense including rotations, help defense, and proper switching. In my opinion, he was struggling on man-to-man defense on rotations as well. With that he will most definitely struggle in a zone.
Secondly, is John strong enough to play down low? With the guys being on the shorter side people are playing out of position. Derrick being the strongest, he is taking the low end of the zone. Is Dawson strong enough to play that role? I don't think he is yet.
Okay, so every other player was able to snap right into a 2-3 no problem? Really grasping at straws now.
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Everyone was struggling with man-to-man, even Derrick because when he tried to force his man into help defense, there was often no help there which made it look like he just botched his assignment. The move to zone has muted everyone's defensive deficiencies, which tells me that if Dawson were out there, his lack of great man defense wouldn't be as bad in the zone. Even without experience, it may be harder to master, but it's easier to pick up the basics and contribute in.
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Okay, so every other player was able to snap right into a 2-3 no problem? Really grasping at straws now.
Sandy Cohen struggled quite a bit with it.
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Everyone was struggling with man-to-man, even Derrick because when he tried to force his man into help defense, there was often no help there which made it look like he just botched his assignment. The move to zone has muted everyone's defensive deficiencies, which tells me that if Dawson were out there, his lack of great man defense wouldn't be as bad in the zone. Even without experience, it may be harder to master, but it's easier to pick up the basics and contribute in.
Precisely.
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Well, he still can't shoot with 1-7 from three point land and 5-14 from the charity stripe. His offensive game is the same as last year with drives and putbacks.
But there is a difference...and you provided the stats. Last season, he took 14 3-pointers all season (32 games). This year, he's taken 7 through six games. And defenses have taken notice by guarding him instead of sagging. He's nowhere close to being a good shooter, but as Ners and others repeatedly said last year, teams would have to guard him more closely if they thought there was even a chance he'd take shots...and now he is starting to do exactly that.
The other change that you're ignoring is that he is pushing the ball up court more aggressively, and more frequently catching the defense sleeping with quick passes inside (like the one to a wide open Juan against MSU). Last season, he'd usually walk it up slowly, and therefore missed the chance to catch the defense off guard. Don't know if the difference is Buzz vs Wojo's style, but in any event, we're seeing it on the floor.
But yeah - the same as last year. :-\
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Derrick offensively is the same player he was last year. He is just playing off the ball more this year, which hides some of his deficiencies, but still allows Wojo to keep him on the floor for the positive parts of his game.
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Ha, okay. But you ignored the other point. I know Dawson has a functional offensive game. I've seen it. It includes the basic skills required to produce a basket. Derrick's offensive skills boil down to not turning the ball over. That's it. If we're playing a 2-3 zone, his on-ball defensive advantage over other players becomes less relevant, almost to the point of irrelevancy altogether. It would make sense that a player at the same position who has demonstrated some offensive aptitude would get some PT in this new defensive paradigm unless there were other factors at play. Not that outrageous.
Not outrageous at all. Very well formulated and reasoned.
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Okay, so every other player was able to snap right into a 2-3 no problem? Really grasping at straws now.
First, Cohen lost time when we moved to the zone because his high school exclusively played man. When you look at the other players on the team they all have multiple years in college and played a form of zone.
Second, It is called risk/reward. When looking at position Dawson is our 8th best option on offense and our ninth best option on defense. The reward of putting Dawson in the game isn't worth the risk he brings on defense.
The person grasping at straws is the guy looking for any way Dawson should get time even if that means putting him in a zone to hide his defensive weaknesses.
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I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game. Now if they start sagging 5 feet off him again, then I'll agree. But I think Derrick's offense has been just fine to start the year.
I and many others have a perfect handle on Derrick's offensive game: Can't shoot, can't create for others, has one offensive move that fails at least as often as it succeeds, dribbles a lot 30-40 feet from the basket. What in that sentence is incorrect?
We have played six games and he has had one good offensive performance. He had another that a generous observer might label "fine" -- 7 pts on 3-for-7 from the field and 1-for-4 from the line with 5 assists.
Another commenter said defenses are respecting Derrick more because he's attempted seven 3s. Please. He's made one. They still sag some and if he doesn't make more, it will be total Sag City again, especially when we get to conference play. If I'm coaching against Marquette, I have a personal mini-celebration every time Derrick shoots a 3 because it's like forcing a turnover.
I probably come off as a "hater" because I'm realistic about Derrick. I get why many like him because I like him for the same reasons -- good guy, hard worker, leader, solid man defender, tough. Unlike some who were glad when they thought he was hurt, I wish nothing bad for Derrick. I simply wish our coach would give some of his PT to players I'd prefer to see more of.
Yes, even a minute here or there for Dawson, whom I don't consider a high-major guard.
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First, Cohen lost time when we moved to the zone because his high school exclusively played man. When you look at the other players on the team they all have multiple years in college and played a form of zone.
Second, It is called risk/reward. When looking at position Dawson is our 8th best option on offense and our ninth best option on defense. The reward of putting Dawson in the game isn't worth the risk he brings on defense.
The person grasping at straws is the guy looking for any way Dawson should get time even if that means putting him in a zone to hide his defensive weaknesses.
Have you seen Carlino play defense as a 5th year Sr....... If hes not 9th hes certainly 8th or 10th.....
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Ha, okay. But you ignored the other point. I know Dawson has a functional offensive game. I've seen it. It includes the basic skills required to produce a basket. Derrick's offensive skills boil down to not turning the ball over. That's it. If we're playing a 2-3 zone, his on-ball defensive advantage over other players becomes less relevant, almost to the point of irrelevancy altogether. It would make sense that a player at the same position who has demonstrated some offensive aptitude would get some PT in this new defensive paradigm unless there were other factors at play. Not that outrageous.
I didn't ignore your point. I said "you may as well be right." It isn't outrageous.
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Have you seen Carlino play defense as a 5th year Sr....... If hes not 9th hes certainly 8th or 10th.....
I thought the same thing, only about Steve's defense.
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I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game. Now if they start sagging 5 feet off him again, then I'll agree. But I think Derrick's offense has been just fine to start the year.
Really? He has No offensive game other than layups. He can't shoot a jump shot, can't shoot a free throw, and is unable to drive and dish.
You just encourage Ners when you make statements like that.
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I thought the same thing, only about Steve's defense.
I was saying Carlino because he cant stay in front of anyone if his scholarship depended on it.
But Oh God lets not even bring him into this his defense is about as anyone we have on the roster. I doubt he's blocked a shot all year or challenged a shot, misses bunnies around the basket and rebounds like his shoes are made of concrete. If he were 6 inches shorter him and Dawson would be on **Transfer Alert** he does nothing well at all.
So Carlino and Taylor are certainly fighting for 9th and 10th place on the team defensive list.
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I think many people underestimate Derrick's offensive game.
Is that in any way even possible????
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Dawson's dad dddawson has not posted since March. Could all this BS of Dawson Vs Derrick be taking its toll?
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Dawson's dad dddawson has not posted since March. Could all this BS of Dawson Vs Derrick be taking its toll?
I'd imagine the families of all players have been encouraged to both avoid these boards all together, or if unable to avoid them - to not post here. Wouldn't know if Mr. Dawson was asked by anyone in Athletic Department to stop posting on the forums - but I can see why/where it would be discouraged.
I'd imagine it has to be very difficult as a parent to not get caught up in some of the stuff here - even more difficult to see your son nailed to the bench and play less as a sophomore than he did as a freshman. Carlino and Duane are establishing themselves at 2 of the 3 guard positions, yet none of JJJ, Cohen or Derrick have distinguished themselves, yet they are all being given a good opportunity to do so. It is incredibly hard to believe that Dawson is so much worse than any of Derrick, JJJ and Cohen that he can't even get an opportunity to show what he can do in a game.
Oh well - John will probably move on to another school and end up having a very nice college career. When you reach the level of being D-1 good, it is really hard to sit on the bench every game, but go to all the practices, meetings, and essentially devote ALL of your college experience to the team/program - and never see the floor. For a walk on, it is a different story, as they aren't D-1 material and in many cases wouldn't be guaranteed playing time if they transferred to another D-1 program. In John's case he could transfer to a number of mid-high major schools and likely get time immediately upon being eligible. Sure he may miss NCAA tourney, and perhaps a potential special run at MU by the time he's a senior, yet not sure if it were me if that would be incentive enough to stay at the program/university. Probably would want to see how I could fare elsewhere and get some real PT.
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10 pages of this BS.
IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!!
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10 pages of this BS.
IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!!
What makes you think this will be locked? Its been going on endlessly for almost a year.
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I'd imagine the families of all players have been encouraged to both avoid these boards all together, or if unable to avoid them - to not post here. Wouldn't know if Mr. Dawson was asked by anyone in Athletic Department to stop posting on the forums - but I can see why/where it would be discouraged.
I'd imagine it has to be very difficult as a parent to not get caught up in some of the stuff here - even more difficult to see your son nailed to the bench and play less as a sophomore than he did as a freshman. Carlino and Duane are establishing themselves at 2 of the 3 guard positions, yet none of JJJ, Cohen or Derrick have distinguished themselves, yet they are all being given a good opportunity to do so. It is incredibly hard to believe that Dawson is so much worse than any of Derrick, JJJ and Cohen that he can't even get an opportunity to show what he can do in a game.
Oh well - John will probably move on to another school and end up having a very nice college career. When you reach the level of being D-1 good, it is really hard to sit on the bench every game, but go to all the practices, meetings, and essentially devote ALL of your college experience to the team/program - and never see the floor. For a walk on, it is a different story, as they aren't D-1 material and in many cases wouldn't be guaranteed playing time if they transferred to another D-1 program. In John's case he could transfer to a number of mid-high major schools and likely get time immediately upon being eligible. Sure he may miss NCAA tourney, and perhaps a potential special run at MU by the time he's a senior, yet not sure if it were me if that would be incentive enough to stay at the program/university. Probably would want to see how I could fare elsewhere and get some real PT.
He always tried to discourge the whole Dawson Vs Derrick debate. His account was active this morning.
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What makes you think this will be locked? Its been going on endlessly for almost a year.
A guy can have hope.
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When De Wil is on the court, and especially when he has the ball in his hands, I feel a sense of unease (in me). When Dawson is on the court/running point, I feel a sense of relative comfort; my uneasiness goes away.
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When De Wil is on the court, and especially when he has the ball in his hands, I feel a sense of unease (in me). When Dawson is on the court/running point, I feel a sense of relative comfort; my uneasiness goes away.
So you've had 4 minutes of comfort this year?
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So you've had 4 minutes of comfort this year?
Should have used past tense. I meant last year
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So you've had 4 minutes of comfort this year?
Lol and that 4 minutes was in 30 second increments.....
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Yumbo!!!!
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When De Wil is on the court, and especially when he has the ball in his hands, I feel a sense of unease (in me). When Dawson is on the court/running point, I feel a sense of relative comfort; my uneasiness goes away.
Still?
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When De Wil is on the court, and especially when he has the ball in his hands, I feel a sense of unease (in me). When Dawson is on the court/running point, I feel a sense of relative comfort; my uneasiness goes away.
Well, Derrick played a very good game today, offensively and defensively. It was wonderful to see and it makes us such a better team. Doesn't hurt when Duane steps in a drills 3's!
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I'd imagine the families of all players have been encouraged to both avoid these boards all together, or if unable to avoid them - to not post here. Wouldn't know if Mr. Dawson was asked by anyone in Athletic Department to stop posting on the forums - but I can see why/where it would be discouraged.
Probably a good idea because of people like you that trash the players on just about a non stop basis.
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Yumbo!!!!
Ok, gotta ask: yumbo?
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Burger King was running a 70's version of a commercial for an old sandwich called the Yumbo. Ham and cheese. The commercial was Mod Squad-esque.
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Probably a good idea because of people like you that trash the players on just about a non stop basis.
Yes NERS is a cancer.
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Yes NERS is a cancer.
Do you really think a kid like Derrick is so thin skinned that what gets written here hurts his feelings? I know we have a number of thin skinned posters here, but newsflash: Not everyone is hypersensitive and thin skinned - that's why comments like yours and some of the others made toward me recently don't bother me.
Doesn't help a kid develop any toughness/character if people constantly BS the kid...telling him he's better than he is, etc. This whole culture of everyone gets a ribbon, nobody fails, positive reinforcement society we seem to be devolving into doesn't do kids any good. Derrick needed to be a lot better than he was last year. Calling it as it is isn't trashing someone. It's performance based. Derrick and any other winner will take criticism constructively, use it for motivation, and improve. Derrick appears to be on the right track. He's certainly not ideal, but if he can play the way he did today - he deserves to be on the floor for 25-30 minutes.
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everyone gets a ribbon
Trust me, I hate that mentality too, but you've gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond it. I'm glad you agree he played well today, and you both should probably be glad that someone gave you a chance even if you've f'ed up a bit.
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Ya, no crap Ners. Just drop the Dawson - Derrick crap. IT REALLY GETS OLD.
Thanks for the auto-correct Rocky. ;)
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Do you really think a kid like Derrick is so thin skinned that what gets written here hurts his feelings? I know we have a number of thin skinned posters here, but newsflash: Not everyone is hypersensitive and thin skinned - that's why comments like yours and some of the others made toward me recently don't bother me.
Doesn't help a kid develop any toughness/character if people constantly BS the kid...telling him he's better than he is, etc. This whole culture of everyone gets a ribbon, nobody fails, positive reinforcement society we seem to be devolving into doesn't do kids any good. Derrick needed to be a lot better than he was last year. Calling it as it is isn't trashing someone. It's performance based. Derrick and any other winner will take criticism constructively, use it for motivation, and improve. Derrick appears to be on the right track. He's certainly not ideal, but if he can play the way he did today - he deserves to be on the floor for 25-30 minutes.
You do not understand it has nothing to do with that. Is your constant hate.
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Burger King was running a 70's version of a commercial for an old sandwich called the Yumbo. Ham and cheese. The commercial was Mod Squad-esque.
I must zoned at commerical time- key boarding!
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Didn't a certain poster, repeatedly rip a certain ex coach for for saying "constructive" things about players to the media? And now said poster, is claiming that players need to have thicker skins about what is said about them on the Internet?
That's curious.
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Didn't a certain poster, repeatedly rip a certain ex coach for for saying "constructive" things about players to the media? And now said poster, is claiming that players need to have thicker skins about what is said about them on the Internet?
That's curious.
Another feeble attempt on your part to make a point. About as weak as your typical cartoon posts that you somehow think are actually representative of a good sense of humor..when in reality 90% of the time they are duds. Please, go through my post history (as many of you haters do) and try to find an example to prove your above point. Good luck.
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I must zoned at commerical time- key boarding!
Might be the MPLS DMA only for this ad.
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Trust me, I hate that mentality too, but you've gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond it. I'm glad you agree he played well today, and you both should probably be glad that someone gave you a chance even if you've f'ed up a bit.
Thanks Rocky. ;D
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Really? He has No offensive game other than layups. He can't shoot a jump shot, can't shoot a free throw, and is unable to drive and dish.
You just encourage Ners when you make statements like that.
I'm calling BS on this. Derrick's offense has been much improved to start this season. People act like he has no offensive game. It is simply not true. He is making strong drives and finishing them (a much welcomed improvement this season), he is taking and even occasionally making three pointers, and he has shown good vision and passing to start the season. His FT shooting definitely still needs work, hack a Derrick could cost a game down the line. Is he great? No. Is he good? No. But he's more than passable on offense and well above average on defense.
Now, if the defenses start sagging off him again and he can't make them pay with a three pointer, I will reevaluate this statement. But as of right now, defenses have been guarding him.
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I'm calling BS on this. Derrick's offense has been much improved to start this season. People act like he has no offensive game. It is simply not true. He is making strong drives and finishing them (a much welcomed improvement this season), he is taking and even occasionally making three pointers, and he has shown good vision and passing to start the season. His FT shooting definitely still needs work, hack a Derrick could cost a game down the line. Is he great? No. Is he good? No. But he's more than passable on offense and well above average on defense.
Now, if the defenses start sagging off him again and he can't make them pay with a three pointer, I will reevaluate this statement. But as of right now, defenses have been guarding him.
Derrick is playing very serviceable right now.... The addition of Carlino and Duane facilitates that alot. Last year Jake couldnt get a shot off unless he was left open, which didnt happen often. Thus causing D.Wilson to try to be a scorer which he is not. Todd was a me, me, me and me as his first second and third option. Todds hero ball helped us and hurt us at times. Now we have guards that will pass and can score, this takes alot of the load off Derrick. He deserves to be out there. . . Now 35+ mpg is a different story. . . But hes probably wojos favorite player and anyone playing behind him probably isn't gonna play much this year.... #2
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I'm not sure why JD isn't getting any looks.
We can come up with a lot of advanced speculation, but it seems likely that the coaching staff doesn't see a role for him on the current team.
Hopefully JD improves and/or the coaches find some ways to use him. Tough to go 8 or 9 deep the entire season. Eventually the 10th guy is going to have to play some minutes.
Will be interesting to see Wojo's rotation come conference season.
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I'm not sure why JD isn't getting any looks.
We can come up with a lot of advanced speculation, but it seems likely that the coaching staff doesn't see a role for him on the current team.
Hopefully JD improves and/or the coaches find some ways to use him. Tough to go 8 or 9 deep the entire season. Eventually the 10th guy is going to have to play some minutes.
Will be interesting to see Wojo's rotation come conference season.
+1
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I'm not sure why JD isn't getting any looks.
We can come up with a lot of advanced speculation, but it seems likely that the coaching staff doesn't see a role for him on the current team.
Hopefully JD improves and/or the coaches find some ways to use him. Tough to go 8 or 9 deep the entire season. Eventually the 10th guy is going to have to play some minutes.
Will be interesting to see Wojo's rotation come conference season.
If Wojo is like most coaches, he actually will shorten the rotation when the games matter more.
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Thus causing D.Wilson to try to be a scorer which he is not.
This I disagree with. Derrick did not try to be a scorer last year except as a last resort. The reason Jake couldn't get open looks last year (besides not being fleet of foot) is because his man never had to double elsewhere because Derrick's man could always do it without fear of Derrick making him pay for it.
This season, the other guard is quick enough to beat a man guarding him AND is willing to pass to moving targets. Combine that with Derrick being guarded like a regular PG and non-stationary post people and suddenly the offense has movement and openings.
I agree with Ners that the combination of Derrick and Jake was toxic because each player's weakness magnified the other's player weakness. I hated watching them play together.
Oh, and besides his teammates, Derrick's off season work has resulted in a better player (or maybe its just confidence, I certainly don't know).
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If Wojo is like most coaches, he actually will shorten the rotation when the games matter more.
In theory, yes... but MU is already working with a short rotation. Not sure how much shorter it can get.
MU might be able to go all season without Dawson ever playing again, but injuries and foul trouble happen, especially in conf. play.
My hope is that John is working his ass off and earns some minutes.
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At some point Wojo will have to let go of the whole notion that Derrick is a valuable contributor to the team as a player on the floor. All of his minutes should be given to Duane, Sandy, JJJ and Dawson. He's not the future. And he isn't going to help in the present.
Honest question...
Didn't you create a poll asking for Scoop's voice to be heard about whether you should leave this board or not, and over 53% of people responded yes?
In all sincerity, why are you still here?
Or was that just for more attention?
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In theory, yes... but MU is already working with a short rotation. Not sure how much shorter it can get.
MU might be able to go all season without Dawson ever playing again, but injuries and foul trouble happen, especially in conf. play.
My hope is that John is working his ass off and earns some minutes.
My sense is not this year except in the unusual situations noted. Further, I'd expect Sandy's minutes to approach zero as we hit conference. This isn't an indictment of either young man. Their time will (may) come. But I'm anticipating an active 8 rotation.
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Honest question...
Didn't you create a poll asking for Scoop's voice to be heard about whether you should leave this board or not, and over 53% of people responded yes?
In all sincerity, why are you still here?
Or was that just for more attention?
Interesting: You go back 12 pages and 5 days in a thread, and parse a quote of mine that I made - that after 1 good game from Derrick now appears to be wrong - to bring up another topic that has been dead for over a week - the poll I started?
A few things:
1) I could CARE LESS about getting "attention" here.
2) I post what I believe, and hold firm in my convictions - and won't alter them based on perhaps 1 good game every 10 games. But, I will recognize that 1 good game when it occurs. Nor will I cower when the herd mentality joins together to disagree with me.
3) Yes, the poll was started in sincerity, that if I offended so many on this board - I'd go away.
4) The poll was locked by the Mods 2 days prior to its expiration - so it never became official - perhaps the Mods way to say: 47% of the people here don't have a problem with you, and at minimum your point of view that 53% don't care for (and in some cases flat out hate), at least drives discussion here.
Scoop is far and away the most active MU message board, and it is largely due to how it is or perhaps better said, isn't moderated - to where any criticism of MU or a player is illegal. A lively board is a good board.
I laugh when people have to trot out the "I'm going to put you on Ignore," like that's going to hurt any grown man's feelings. Lots of nasty sh$t was written about me in that Poll thread, and it didn't cause me for a minute to put any poster here on Ignore...much less would I put a poster on Ignore because they have a very different opinion on MU hoops or an MU player than me. I'm amazed that - what I assume to be mostly grown men on here - are so thin skinned. (Kind of like Buzz.) ;D
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Interesting: You go back 12 pages and 5 days in a thread, and parse a quote of mine that I made - that after 1 good game from Derrick now appears to be wrong - to bring up another topic that has been dead for over a week - the poll I started?
I hadn't read or posted to this thread yet. When it got to 12 pages I figured I better. I guess that means I "went back" but I was just reading the thread start to front for the first time. Maybe I should have waited until I got to the end. My bad on that.
Ners, you are welcome to your opinion. But when you say things like so and so "just doesn't contribute to the team on the floor," I get angry. This is a Marquette player who deserves our support.
In any case, I'm glad you have changed your opinion.
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4) The poll was locked by the Mods 2 days prior to its expiration - so it never became official - perhaps the Mods way to say: 47% of the people here don't have a problem with you, and at minimum your point of view that 53% don't care for (and in some cases flat out hate), at least drives discussion here.
So the mods shut down your poll to save you from yourself...and in the process saving Scoop from deteriorating into a mass of groupthink?
Wow.
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I hadn't read or posted to this thread yet. When it got to 12 pages I figured I better. I guess that means I "went back" but I was just reading the thread start to front for the first time. Maybe I should have waited until I got to the end. My bad on that.
Ners, you are welcome to your opinion. But when you say things like so and so "just doesn't contribute to the team on the floor," I get angry. This is a Marquette player who deserves our support.
In any case, I'm glad you have changed your opinion.
Fair enough. Ironically, I used to get railed at by some when I first joined the board FOR NEVER BEING CRITICAL of any MU players or coaches. True story. Got told to take off the Blue and Gold glasses, stop drinking the Kool Aid etc.
I'm a HUGE MU basketball fan and want the team/coaches to be successful. Sadly, last season, I got carried away with the frustration of watching us lose game after game, Derrick struggling mightily and Buzz refusing to change or even try anything different at that position other than for 1 game (that actually ended up going pretty well.)
I know I've been very harsh on Derrick, and have felt bad about that at times. However, there were times I'd attempted to let it go, but then it just became very difficult to do so when some of his supporters here would make greatly exaggerated or embellished statements to try to prop up their "argument." It became a vicious cycle for everyone involved - those who supported Derrick, and those who were critical.
I've said it many times, Derrick is a fine young man, a great rep of MU - love who he is as a person, don't love his game. When he got hurt earlier this year - I never said I was HAPPY about it - I said it likely would improve our chances of winning the game. Yes, that was not a nice statement to make - yet I believed it to be true.
Hopefully Derrick continues to play as he did yesterday, and I'll eat the big sh$t burger I'll deserve. And if he doesn't, I'll try to tone down the criticism - I hope too that the other "side" can tone down putting the lipstick on the pig too, however.
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So the mods shut down your poll to save you from yourself...and in the process saving Scoop from deteriorating into a mass of groupthink?
Wow.
I'll let this slide. Happy Sultan? ;D
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2) I post what I believe, and hold firm in my convictions - and won't alter them
Well that part is true.
Sorry couldn't help myself ;D
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I'll let this slide.
If you make this your mantra, EVERYONE on this board will be happy.
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If you make this your mantra, EVERYONE on this board will be happy.
Ha - Easier said than done for me (and others here too.) I'll see what I can do. Yet the basic premise of a message board is that opinions are exchanged and of course disagreements ensue on occasion. I suspect we won't have another lightening rod quite like what we had last season with Buzz/Derrick for quite awhile.
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Ha - Easier said than done for me (and others here too.) I'll see what I can do. Yet the basic premise of a message board is that opinions are exchanged and of course disagreements ensue on occasion. I suspect we won't have another lightening rod quite like what we had last season with Buzz/Derrick for quite awhile.
I remember after the Omaha game that some posters (really, I forget who and don't care) were wondering if Wojo was up to the job. That's one week ago. Enjoy the ride everyone.
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2) I post what I believe, and hold firm in my convictions - and won't alter them based on perhaps 1 good game every 10 games.
Here's the thing though...everyone is wrong sometimes. I think the issue many people have is that when you are wrong, you refuse to ever admit it. You obstinately stick to the same position, unwilling to waver even when it is painfully obvious to everyone involved and must even be obvious to yourself.
I've been wrong plenty. I try to own up to it when I am. I think just once it would be nice to see you admit when you are wrong.
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Here's the thing though...everyone is wrong sometimes. I think the issue many people have is that when you are wrong, you refuse to ever admit it. You obstinately stick to the same position, unwilling to waver even when it is painfully obvious to everyone involved and must even be obvious to yourself.
I've been wrong plenty. I try to own up to it when I am. I think just once it would be nice to see you admit when you are wrong.
I've admitted to being wrong on a number of topics here. Had it wrong on Vander - never thought he'd evolve into the player he became as a junior after watching his first 2 years here. Thought Reggie Smith would be a good player at MU. Same with Jamail Jones.
And there will be other topics over the years I'm sure...yet truthfully, never once in my mind last year did I feel I was wrong on Buzz being a different guy last season, or Derrick being the best option for that team. Not once last season did I feel Derrick was a viable option at PG along with Jake, and it only intensified as the season wore on.
Derrick plays on a relatively consistent basis like he did yesterday - no qualms whatsoever. I'm not asking the world of the guy. Just would like to see 8-10ppg, 3 to 4 assists, and respectable shooting from FT line and 3 point line. In other words - give me Junior Cadougan's numbers as a senior and I'm quite happy - yet when you look at what other PGs in our league and the other high major leagues are doing, it really isn't asking too much/hoping for too much - especially when you are getting 30-40 minutes every game.
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Interesting: You go back 12 pages and 5 days in a thread, and parse a quote of mine that I made - that after 1 good game from Derrick now appears to be wrong - to bring up another topic that has been dead for over a week - the poll I started?
A few things:
1) I could CARE LESS about getting "attention" here.
2) I post what I believe, and hold firm in my convictions - and won't alter them based on perhaps 1 good game every 10 games. But, I will recognize that 1 good game when it occurs. Nor will I cower when the herd mentality joins together to disagree with me.
3) Yes, the poll was started in sincerity, that if I offended so many on this board - I'd go away.
4) The poll was locked by the Mods 2 days prior to its expiration - so it never became official - perhaps the Mods way to say: 47% of the people here don't have a problem with you, and at minimum your point of view that 53% don't care for (and in some cases flat out hate), at least drives discussion here.
Scoop is far and away the most active MU message board, and it is largely due to how it is or perhaps better said, isn't moderated - to where any criticism of MU or a player is illegal. A lively board is a good board.
I laugh when people have to trot out the "I'm going to put you on Ignore," like that's going to hurt any grown man's feelings. Lots of nasty sh$t was written about me in that Poll thread, and it didn't cause me for a minute to put any poster here on Ignore...much less would I put a poster on Ignore because they have a very different opinion on MU hoops or an MU player than me. I'm amazed that - what I assume to be mostly grown men on here - are so thin skinned. (Kind of like Buzz.) ;D
2 words: Derrick Moratorium.
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3) Yes, the poll was started in sincerity, that if I offended so many on this board - I'd go away.
4) The poll was locked by the Mods 2 days prior to its expiration - so it never became official - perhaps the Mods way to say: 47% of the people here don't have a problem with you, and at minimum your point of view that 53% don't care for (and in some cases flat out hate), at least drives discussion here.
So you say that the poll was started in sincerity, but when its locked and 161 people out of 300 say you should be banned, you create reasons above why you should stay, hypothesizing on why the mods locked it. Come on.
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I'm confused. I thought the mods shut down the thread that was wholly dedicated to N'ers' behavior, both chastising and defending?
Yet here we are....Is it "the thread has been 'Kanye'd'", or "the thread has been 'N'ers'd'"?
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I remember after the Omaha game that some posters (really, I forget who and don't care) were wondering if Wojo was up to the job. That's one week ago. Enjoy the ride everyone.
Fans have the attention spans of Jack Russell terriers.
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So you say that the poll was started in sincerity, but when its locked and 161 people out of 300 say you should be banned, you create reasons above why you should stay, hypothesizing on why the mods locked it. Come on.
Yeah. That is evidence of Ners holding "firm in his convictions." Nothing like saying you are going to do one thing and then backtracking under the guise of technicalities to show just how "firm" one is in his or her "convictions."
I voted "no" on the poll, but I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than the way Ners has reneged on his own attention grabbing poll in the way he has. Oh, wait. I can imagine something more ridiculous....the tired Derrick v. Dawson mantra spewed forth ad naseum.
I am no fan of Ners; his positions, on most occasions, defy basic rules of logic. But it took a complete slash to credibility in the failure to follow through on his self-imposed ban under some conjured up technicality (nevermind that he was losing that vote consistently at at clip of 54-46 percent...) for me to hit the ignore button.
Mind you, it is easier to hit the ignore button than actually ignore, which is why I admittedly remain here responding to and referencing Ners. If I were true to my word, I'd probably just ignore and forget, difficult as that may be with his Derrick v Dawson campaign being quoted in nearly every thread. To err is human, I suppose.
Breathe. Calm. Better.
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Yeah. That is evidence of Ners holding "firm in his convictions." Nothing like saying you are going to do one thing and then backtracking under the guise of technicalities to show just how "firm" one is in his or her "convictions."
Dude, those weren't "technicalities." Those were the mods, fearing that they would lose a valuable, thought-provoking member, shutting down the poll for the sake of Scoop. You don't realize how close this place came to becoming a Dodds-like wasteland.
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Dude, those weren't "technicalities." Those were the mods, fearing that they would lose a valuable, thought-provoking member, shutting down the poll for the sake of Scoop. You don't realize how close this place came to becoming a Dodds-like wasteland.
Dodds forum is a joke..... He patrols it like the Coast Guard does the Gulf Of Mexico and will ban you if he doesnt agree with you...
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Dodds forum is a joke..... He patrols it like the Coast Guard does the Gulf Of Mexico and will ban you if he doesnt agree with you...
I think Sultan's point was a sarcastic one - that this forum would never become like Dodds' forum, even if Ners followed through on his promise to leave voluntarily if the majority of voters voted him off.
Two totally different issues: the mods banning every dissenting voice vs. one poster following through on a promise of a self-imposed ban based on a majority vote.
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We could just start treating this board like Survivor.
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Dodds forum is a joke..... He patrols it like the Coast Guard does the Gulf Of Mexico and will ban you if he doesnt agree with you...
You mean "Doddsie?"
The forced, artificial bonhomie on Doddsie's site reminds me of those B movies where the petty tyrant is surrounded by sycophants who cater to his every whim no matter how ridiculous or absurd.
(http://www.rebresearch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/zachary-kanin-i-want-to-be-feared-as-a-tyrant-loved-as-a-father-and-revered-as-a-god-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)