Wojo's Trade

[jsglow]

So this year's trade is now complete.

Over the last three months we traded Buzz for Wojo.  Let's leave that for a separate discussion.  From a players perspective we lost Hill, Satchel Pierce and Shayok replacing them with Carlino, Levin and Wally Ellenson.  From my perspective Wojo did an excellent job given the calendar restrictions. 

First and most importantly, he got a starting point guard.  One can potentially argue that Carlino might be next year's most important player.  I have no desire to re-enter the Dawson vs. DeWilson discussion but the reality from last year is that among other problems our PG play wasn't good enough to allow us to reach the dance.  This year's solution would have been improvement from the existing players and/or the addition of a redshirt combo guard.  I'd argue that we're better off.  Second, Wojo traded Pierce for Levin (and later Heldt).  Neither kid is available to help this year but again I'd argue that over the long term it represents an upgrade.  Lastly, he lured Wally in as a replacement for Shayok.  Seems fine to me especially given the potential of luring Henry as a result.

Thoughts?

[MUMonster03]

I think it has left us a little thin this coming year, unless some of the returning guys live up to their potential. But I think we are better in the long run especially if we land one of the 2 5 stars we are after.

[willie warrior]

Wally will likely ride the pines, but will be used to jump over rows of seats to fetch Wojo some popcorn on occasion. The Wally connection only works if we get his brother. Levin replacing Pierce could be an upgrade. Carlino for Hill is a wash, because Hill was a 4 year player.

The real upgrade is Wojo replacing the phony downhome lonesome cowboy.

[We R Final Four]

I did not see a replacement (trade) for Med Hill. From all accounts, he looks to be a very promising player---would have loved to have kept him.....but we didn't, and we move on.
Wojo has been fantastic and I only see bigger and better things on the horizon.

[jsglow]

Here's my thoughts on Wally.  Is he worthy of scholly slot 12 or 13?  In my mind absolutely yes.  Heck, last year we started a guy (Jake) who had been slotted there.  Wally won't be some complaining kid down the bench.  Rather, he'll be a mature upperclassman providing leadership, a shot at our first national championship in track since the 1930s, and a real reason for his brother to very seriously consider MU.

[jsglow]

I did not see a replacement (trade) for Med Hill. From all accounts, he looks to be a very promising player---would have loved to have kept him.....but we didn't, and we move on.
Wojo has been fantastic and I only see bigger and better things on the horizon.

Absolutely agree.  But given Med's decision that he had every right to make, Wojo did the best he possibly could.  I wish all our departed Frosh class well.

[GGGG]

Here's my thoughts on Wally.  Is he worth of scholly slot 12 or 13?  In my mind absolutely yes.  Heck, last year we started a guy (Jake) who had been slotted there.  Wally won't be some complaining kid down the bench.  Rather, he'll be a mature upperclassman providing leadership, a shot at our first national championship in track since the 1930s, and a real reason for his brother to very seriously consider MU.

He's also 6'6" and can jump out of the gym.  I wish people wouldn't undersell him.  He was hurt at Minnesota his freshman year.  He was out of the mix as a sophomore.

As jsglow points out, this guy has WAY more upside than Jake Thomas.

[pbiflyer]

One thing left out of your trade is what we would have lost if the trade wasn't made.
By all accounts you can add JJJ and STJ to the mix of people we gained.

[jsglow]

One thing left out of your trade is what we would have lost if the trade wasn't made.
By all accounts you can add JJJ and STJ to the mix of people we gained.

+1

[We R Final Four]

Great point.

[Earl Tatum]

Don't underestimate Wally. Wojo's rotation should be very interesting in 2015.

[jsglow]

He's also 6'6" and can jump out of the gym.  I wish people wouldn't undersell him.  He was hurt at Minnesota his freshman year.  He was out of the mix as a sophomore.

As jsglow points out, this guy has WAY more upside than Jake Thomas.

Can't wait for Madness watching Wally and Deonte jump out of the gym.  Everybody else just sit down and marvel.

[Tugg Speedman]

Don't underestimate Wally. Wojo's rotation should be very interesting in 2015.

Getting sense from this thread that you're forgetting that Wally sits out next year.  So You cannot count him for next year's team.

[mileskishnish72]

Excellent points, We R & Flyer.

[HutchwasClutch]

So this year's trade is now complete.

Over the last three months we traded Buzz for Wojo.  Let's leave that for a separate discussion.  From a players perspective we lost Hill, Satchel Pierce and Shayok replacing them with Carlino, Levin and Wally Ellenson.  From my perspective Wojo did an excellent job given the calendar restrictions. 

First and most importantly, he got a starting point guard.  One can potentially argue that Carlino might be next year's most important player.  I have no desire to re-enter the Dawson vs. DeWilson discussion but the reality from last year is that among other problems our PG play wasn't good enough to allow us to reach the dance.  This year's solution would have been improvement from the existing players and/or the addition of a redshirt combo guard.  I'd argue that we're better off.  Second, Wojo traded Pierce for Levin (and later Heldt).  Neither kid is available to help this year but again I'd argue that over the long term it represents an upgrade.  Lastly, he lured Wally in as a replacement for Shayok.  Seems fine to me especially given the potential of luring Henry as a result.

Thoughts?

I agree it was a huge get w/ Carlino and he probably will be the guy who most impact the kind of season the team has next year.  But it's a one shot deal with him, Hill would have been a 3-4 year deal likely.  You can't dismiss the long-term impact of Hill vs. short term impact of Carlino.  It's all how you want to look at it comparing them.  Short term favors us, long term favors Buzz.

Levin for Pierce, Levin is not going to play the role Pierce would have, that's apples and oranges.  They're totally different players and different skill sets.  Long term I think we got the better of that, big men are such x-factors, Levin is already a proven high level D-1 producer, and he was only a frosh.  You mentioned it and it's way more accurate to compare Heldt vs. Pierce, which I think favors Heldt, he's a rising kid w/ a great big man skill set, inside & outside skills.  Pierce is a low post, maybe mid-range guy, and that's likely all he'll be.  Plus I look at who was recruiting Pierce, generally mid- majors, save for MU and Pitt, I think Miami (FL) offered him.  Heldt was attracting more and more interest, and had he waited, almost no question, other high majors would have got involved.

Ellenson vs Shayok seems a fair comparison, and I have no idea.  Like others have said, I wouldn't dimiss Ellenson at all- he's no question an elite level athlete.  If those guys have the desire to be really good, and coaches who can develop that athleticism, the sky's the limit.  And I'd like to think that we have the coaches, and based on Wally's comments, basketball is where he wants to excel.  I think he proved that's his attitude by ditching Minnesota.  There was a lot of high level interest in Shayok when he decommitted, got to think there's plenty there.  This should be an interesting one to watch.  I think way too early to have an opinion now, so call it a wash to slight edge to Shayok simply because you get 4 years of eligibility vs. 2 years.

Interesting topic jsglow.

[94Warrior]

Getting sense from this thread that you're forgetting that Wally sits out next year.  So You cannot count him for next year's team.

Do you know what year it is Heisenberg?   Please add meaningful comments, or don't post.

Total and complete upgrade - Buzz to Wojo.  Without JJJ & STJ this season we would be lucky to finish 17-15.   We are better off this year and down the road.  You can't cherry pick this player or that one, you have to look at the whole package.

[HutchwasClutch]

and a real reason for his brother to very seriously consider MU.

Couldn't disagree w/ this last statement more.  You're really saying there's no way Henry would have considered MU without his brother?  An in-state kid, his dad originally playing here, all of the selling points our program has (I'm not going to go through the laundry list, we all know it).

You're selling MU way, way, way (should I add one more?) short.  Sounds like one of the rodent fans talking, which is basically what many of them are saying or implying.

[GGGG]

Do you know what year it is Heisenberg?   Please add meaningful comments, or don't post.

Total and complete upgrade - Buzz to Wojo.  Without JJJ & STJ this season we would be lucky to finish 17-15.   We are better off this year and down the road.  You can't cherry pick this player or that one, you have to look at the whole package.

I don't think there is anyway you can fairly say that Wojo is a "total and complete upgrade."  Buzz's record at MU was really, really good.  Don't get me wrong, I *really* like Wojo and in retrospect I think was a much better outcome than Shaka Smart would have been, but Buzz accomplished a great deal at MU.  The jury is out whether or not Wojo will be better.

[HutchwasClutch]

Do you know what year it is Heisenberg?   Please add meaningful comments, or don't post.

What should he have added?  Wally is a redshirt for 2014-15, he can only practice.  His impact at best next year will be making others better, which except for the coaches, will be impossible to quantify.

[GGGG]

Couldn't disagree w/ this last statement more.  You're really saying there's no way Henry would have considered MU without his brother?  An in-state kid, his dad originally playing here, all of the selling points our program has (I'm not going to go through the laundry list, we all know it).

You're selling MU way, way, way (should I add one more?) short.  Sounds like one of the rodent fans talking, which is basically what many of them are saying or implying.

Wojo has made huge inroads with the Ellenson family.  We were in the mix for Henry regardless of Wally.  

[Wojo'sMojo]

I don't think there is anyway you can fairly say that Wojo is a "total and complete upgrade."  Buzz's record at MU was really, really good.  Don't get me wrong, I *really* like Wojo and in retrospect I think was a much better outcome than Shaka Smart would have been, but Buzz accomplished a great deal at MU.  The jury is out whether or not Wojo will be better.

I really love everything Wojo has done since he became the head coach. I'm curious why you think he was a better outcome than Shaka though? I'm not disagreeing, just want to know why you think this.

[GGGG]

I really love everything Wojo has done since he became the head coach. I'm curious why you think he was a better outcome than Shaka though? I'm not disagreeing, just want to know why you think this.

Because I just don't think he is as good as his reputation.  I mean, I was thrilled during the #donedeal episode about Smart, and I will admit wasn't terribly happy about the Wojo rumors at first.  But Wojo has done almost everything right.  He kept everyone around.  He managed some big recruiting wins on the transfer front.  He looks to be putting together a real good class.  I think he fits the Marquette culture much better than Buzz did.  All that needs to be done is to show that he can win on the court. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Wojo has made huge inroads with the Ellenson family.  We were in the mix for Henry regardless of Wally.  

Exactly, I should have added your last point to my post, Henry was already seriously considering us.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Because I just don't think he is as good as his reputation.  I mean, I was thrilled during the #donedeal episode about Smart, and I will admit wasn't terribly happy about the Wojo rumors at first.  But Wojo has done almost everything right.  He kept everyone around.  He managed some big recruiting wins on the transfer front.  He looks to be putting together a real good class.  I think he fits the Marquette culture much better than Buzz did.  All that needs to be done is to show that he can win on the court. 

Agree with the whole post! We couldn't have asked for a better first couple of months out of Wojo and I will be stunned if he doesn't turn into a very good coach and keep our program nationally relevant.

[NersEllenson]

Because I just don't think he is as good as his reputation.  I mean, I was thrilled during the #donedeal episode about Smart, and I will admit wasn't terribly happy about the Wojo rumors at first.  But Wojo has done almost everything right.  He kept everyone around.  He managed some big recruiting wins on the transfer front.  He looks to be putting together a real good class.  I think he fits the Marquette culture much better than Buzz did.  All that needs to be done is to show that he can win on the court. 

Still would have loved to see Shaka at Marquette - he has a proven track record as a head coach that Wojo doesn't have as of yet...but I agree with all the rest of your post.  I wasn't thrilled initially with the hire, but I've been very impressed with what Wojo has accomplished thus far.  Think it is great he's assembled a coaching staff that has so much playing experience - that matters to recruits and families.  The combined conference championships, national championships, Final Four appearances etc of Wojo, Carrawell, Nelson, Diener is quite impressive.  

Shaka, however, would have been awesome too.  Love the way his VCU teams play.  40 minutes of hell.  Love the athleticism and constant full court pressure.  I'm a little concerned about if we'll be athletic enough under Wojo.  Feel this has been the achilles heal of late with Duke...why they've generally struggled in the NCAA tourney for the last 10-15 years...lack of athleticism.  Recall the Big 3 giving their team fits those two seasons we played them..