Wojo's Trade

[ThatDude]

I did not see a replacement (trade) for Med Hill. From all accounts, he looks to be a very promising player---would have loved to have kept him.....but we didn't, and we move on.
Wojo has been fantastic and I only see bigger and better things on the horizon.

Please tell me how wojo has been fantastic because I dont see it?

(My anti white boy rants has nothing to do with this statement by the way)

[NersEllenson]

Please tell me how wojo has been fantastic because I dont see it?

(My anti white boy rants has nothing to do with this statement by the way)

ThatDude - I can appreciate your viewpoints and preferences for an all black/predominately black team...I tend to share that....yet...it isn't to say a mixed team black/white can't and won't perform well.

But...to highlight Wojo's accomplishments:

No transfers - so, the guys on the team have bought into his style.

Retained Cohen and Noskowiak - Both thought to be top prospects in the state for their class year..or in the case of Nick N..top 3 after Ellenson and Stone who are top 10 nationally.

Coaching Staff - Lots of great experience there...playing at the high major level.

Carlino - Best available PG on the market...will definitely help the team.

Levin - One of the best available transfers on the market...will help balance recruiting classes.

Heldt - Considered a rising Big Man prospect - Marquette has long struggled to land a decent caliber player over 6'9"

Ellenson - Very good athlete that Big 10 school offered...didn't get much of a chance to show his skills as a sophomore...decided to transfer...and of course his brother is considered at Top 10 prospect nationally by ALL scouting services.  Land Henry and he will be highest rated recruit at MU since the days of Al McGuire.

Hopefully you can look at the above body of work in roughly 100 days on the job, objectively, and say....yeah....that's pretty good.

[MuMark]

Buzz loses another.......http://vtsports.blogs.timesdispatch.com/2014/07/04/sources-emelogu-left-tech-basketball-team/

[jsglow]

Couldn't disagree w/ this last statement more.  You're really saying there's no way Henry would have considered MU without his brother?  An in-state kid, his dad originally playing here, all of the selling points our program has (I'm not going to go through the laundry list, we all know it).

You're selling MU way, way, way (should I add one more?) short.  Sounds like one of the rodent fans talking, which is basically what many of them are saying or implying.

I'm not saying that at all hutch.  Of course Henry might have picked MU on his own.  We're an outstanding program.  I'm just saying that with both Wally and his good friend Nick already here (coming), the chances he'll decide on MU just went up dramatically.  I don't want to turn this into a Henry thread (and it is MY thread) but I think we're the odds on favorite for his services now.  Party on Garth.

[Wojo'sMojo]

ThatDude - I can appreciate your viewpoints and preferences for an all black/predominately black team...I tend to share that....yet...it isn't to say a mixed team black/white can't and won't perform well.

That had been my preference as well and I think it used to separate us from Bucky. We were looked at as the hip inner city school to Wisconsin high schoolers. It was go play for Bo and his boring system, or come join the hip and outrageous Buzz. The perception was always the predominantly black teams were more athletic and exciting. This last run Wisconsin made, had me question my preferences. I actually enjoyed watching the goofy Kaminsky and the Badgers play this year. I won't root for them, but they were a fun and exciting team to watch. I also think the older I get, the more I just want to win and at this point I could care less if we are a grinding team, or a fast break transition team. I'm kind of embarrassed and saddened that I used to have had a certain perception on players abilities/talent based on their skin color. This being said, I have trust in Wojo that he will bring in quality student athletes regardless of race and we don't have to be all traditional just because he's a Duke guy.

[jsglow]

I agree it was a huge get w/ Carlino and he probably will be the guy who most impact the kind of season the team has next year.  But it's a one shot deal with him, Hill would have been a 3-4 year deal likely.  You can't dismiss the long-term impact of Hill vs. short term impact of Carlino.  It's all how you want to look at it comparing them.  Short term favors us, long term favors Buzz.

Levin for Pierce, Levin is not going to play the role Pierce would have, that's apples and oranges.  They're totally different players and different skill sets.  Long term I think we got the better of that, big men are such x-factors, Levin is already a proven high level D-1 producer, and he was only a frosh.  You mentioned it and it's way more accurate to compare Heldt vs. Pierce, which I think favors Heldt, he's a rising kid w/ a great big man skill set, inside & outside skills.  Pierce is a low post, maybe mid-range guy, and that's likely all he'll be.  Plus I look at who was recruiting Pierce, generally mid- majors, save for MU and Pitt, I think Miami (FL) offered him.  Heldt was attracting more and more interest, and had he waited, almost no question, other high majors would have got involved.

Ellenson vs Shayok seems a fair comparison, and I have no idea.  Like others have said, I wouldn't dimiss Ellenson at all- he's no question an elite level athlete.  If those guys have the desire to be really good, and coaches who can develop that athleticism, the sky's the limit.  And I'd like to think that we have the coaches, and based on Wally's comments, basketball is where he wants to excel.  I think he proved that's his attitude by ditching Minnesota.  There was a lot of high level interest in Shayok when he decommitted, got to think there's plenty there.  This should be an interesting one to watch.  I think way too early to have an opinion now, so call it a wash to slight edge to Shayok simply because you get 4 years of eligibility vs. 2 years.

Interesting topic jsglow.

Great points again hutch.  Just to be clear, I wasn't trying at all to match up guy for guy directly.  Of course they all play different positions or have limited (as few as one in the case of Carlino) years of eligibility remaining.  But Wojo wasn't going to be able to match up perfectly.  No big time '14s were left.  So instead he went out and got perhaps the best one year 'rental' in the country who also happens to play our area of greatest need this year.  And then the scholly opens back up and is earmarked for..... (okay, Henry).  Then he replaced Pierce indirectly with Heldt having used the scholly in the meantime on a very solid Chicago transfer who will help down the road.  That's all simply incredible work.

[77ncaachamps]

Buzz loses another.......http://vtsports.blogs.timesdispatch.com/2014/07/04/sources-emelogu-left-tech-basketball-team/

@TeamCoachBuzz
Drama distracts unless priorities prevail!




Agree that there was no replacement for Med Hill, but did anyone really think Wojo could have done a much better job than he has done with 1) no HC experience, 2) none to few assistants in place (at that time), 3) need to secure MU's players and recruits, and 4) lack of relationships with MU's recruits (committed and targeted)? Wojo took this job head on and I'm willing to be patient as he builds HIS program at MU.

RE: Wally, he is worth more to this team than it initially appears. He is a quality athlete off the bench. He may not get starter's minutes but I expect him to give his all for the sub minutes he provides.

RE: Jake, I was down on him because, despite his shooting prowess, he couldn't make a crap for himself and relied on screens. That's not the takeover guard we needed. Buzz kept him in there because 1) his insecurity with Deonte and frosh at the position and 2) he felt Jake gave the team the slightest edge to keep the game close and possibly winnable.

[jsglow]

@TeamCoachBuzz
Drama distracts unless priorities prevail!




Agree that there was no replacement for Med Hill, but did anyone really think Wojo could have done a much better job than he has done with 1) no HC experience, 2) none to few assistants in place (at that time), 3) need to secure MU's players and recruits, and 4) lack of relationships with MU's recruits (committed and targeted)? Wojo took this job head on and I'm willing to be patient as he builds HIS program at MU.

RE: Wally, he is worth more to this team than it initially appears. He is a quality athlete off the bench. He may not get starter's minutes but I expect him to give his all for the sub minutes he provides.

RE: Jake, I was down on him because, despite his shooting prowess, he couldn't make a crap for himself and relied on screens. That's not the takeover guard we needed. Buzz kept him in there because 1) his insecurity with Deonte and frosh at the position and 2) he felt Jake gave the team the slightest edge to keep the game close and possibly winnable.

I suppose the ONLY improvement is if he could have retained Med somehow.  Okay, for the semester just ended Wojo earned a 3.9 GPA.  That'll get you a good job or a slot in a top grad school.  And not to go off topic but to embrace the culture. former players, etc.  All's good.

[bilsu]

Buzz loses another.......http://vtsports.blogs.timesdispatch.com/2014/07/04/sources-emelogu-left-tech-basketball-team/

This alone is why Wojo is an upgrade. Buzz had to many players jump ship. I enjoyed Buzz while he was here, but there comes a time for a coach to move on and at least Buzz recognized that. It is clear to me that Buzz lost last year's team and Wojo brings a whole new attitude. Having two transfers that have to sit out will make a happier team, since there is only 11 players that can play. My opinion is that Ellenson will be the type of player that comes off the bench and provides energy rebounding similar to what Fulce did. You need players like that.

[Tugg Speedman]

Buzz loses another.......http://vtsports.blogs.timesdispatch.com/2014/07/04/sources-emelogu-left-tech-basketball-team/

So Buzz has now lost 4 players, including his two best from last year (Emelogu and Thompson).  VT is going to be really bad again next year.

I get the feeling had he stayed JJJ and STj transfers would have been just the START of a mass exodus from our program.  If so, the "wojo trade" has worked so far simply because Buzz was not here to watch us go to five or six returning players plus incoming recruits.

[tower912]

Wojo has met and exceeded my expectations so far.   I still don't know what kind of game coach he is, though.   If Buzz had left a year earlier, than this conversation wouldn't be happening because MU would have traded a coach coming off of S-16, S-16, E-8, Big East regular season champs for someone with no coaching experience.   13-14 (aka 17-15) changed that perception somewhat.   The culture is certainly changing, but let's wait to see the product on the floor before a final decision is rendered.  

[jsglow]

All agreed.  Much yet to learn especially about game planning and management.  Just talking roster development at this point.

[We R Final Four]

Please tell me how wojo has been fantastic because I dont see it?

(My anti white boy rants has nothing to do with this statement by the way)

I don't think that you will ever see it.

[77ncaachamps]

So Buzz has now lost 4 players, including his two best from last year (Emelogu and Thompson).  VT is going to be really bad again next year.

I get the feeling had he stayed JJJ and STj transfers would have been just the START of a mass exodus from our program.  If so, the "wojo trade" has worked so far simply because Buzz was not here to watch us go to five or six returning players plus incoming recruits.

It's too easy for me to beat on Buzz (and I really want to) but coaching transitions will lead to departures.
Guys who were loyal to the previous coach will want to leave.
Players who were on the fence will stick it out as long as they can until their feelings later change.

With Louisville in the ACC now, Buzz will get his share of recruits...but it just. got. harder.

[ThatDude]

ThatDude - I can appreciate your viewpoints and preferences for an all black/predominately black team...I tend to share that....yet...it isn't to say a mixed team black/white can't and won't perform well.

But...to highlight Wojo's accomplishments:

No transfers - so, the guys on the team have bought into his style.

Retained Cohen and Noskowiak - Both thought to be top prospects in the state for their class year..or in the case of Nick N..top 3 after Ellenson and Stone who are top 10 nationally.

Coaching Staff - Lots of great experience there...playing at the high major level.

Carlino - Best available PG on the market...will definitely help the team.

Levin - One of the best available transfers on the market...will help balance recruiting classes.

Heldt - Considered a rising Big Man prospect - Marquette has long struggled to land a decent caliber player over 6'9"

Ellenson - Very good athlete that Big 10 school offered...didn't get much of a chance to show his skills as a sophomore...decided to transfer...and of course his brother is considered at Top 10 prospect nationally by ALL scouting services.  Land Henry and he will be highest rated recruit at MU since the days of Al McGuire.

Hopefully you can look at the above body of work in roughly 100 days on the job, objectively, and say....yeah....that's pretty good.

+100

I can respect that. Thanks

[NersEllenson]

+100

I can respect that. Thanks

Respect.  I certainly can see your point of view as well and share the concern to an extent.  Yet, we'll have to see how it plays out on the court over the next 2-4 years.  As long as we win at a high level, I'll be pretty happy - but I really don't want to see MU become Wisconsin 2.0 - though last year's Wisconsin team was pretty fun to watch...hard as it is to say.

[NotBuzzWilliams]

Be careful not to become so focused on where you're supposed to go, when you should be so focused on what you're supposed to be doing...

[ThatDude]

Respect.  I certainly can see your point of view as well and share the concern to an extent.  Yet, we'll have to see how it plays out on the court over the next 2-4 years.  As long as we win at a high level, I'll be pretty happy - but I really don't want to see MU become Wisconsin 2.0 - though last year's Wisconsin team was pretty fun to watch...hard as it is to say.

Right. Winning will cure everyone's concerns and not just mine. I dont wanna be good, but still irrelevant like Wisconsin. I wanna be great, compete for championships like the Kentuckys and UCONNS of the world.

[Tums Festival]

Great thread Mr. Glow.

I would say a more fitting trade for Ahmed Hill would be any of the shooting guards Wojo is recruiting for the 2015 class. All three seem to have the same skill set as Hill and are ranked nearly as high. I know Hill's a very good player, but a lot of posters here treat him like he's irreplaceable for some reason. He's not a once in a lifetime level talent.

[Texas Western]

From the standpoint of 2014-15 roster, the trade has worked out well.  We were able to keep JJJ and STjr who each had one foot out the door.  We kept the rest of  the team as well and added Carlino. So now we have a nice core group of 10 veterans to build on. I don't think any of the  original  2014 freshman where going to contribute major minutes . So the way I look at it we have the 10 veterans getting plenty of playing time, one freshman who can develop at his own pace and our two transfers will be a big help in terms of providing practice competition during their red shirt year. On top of this add a very nice group of coaches who have played the game at a high level and I think we have a solid foundation to start the Wojo era.

[bilsu]

We lost Hill, but it is hard to say how good he will be. Burton, Wilson and JJJ were are rated higher then he was and Burton is the only one that got significant minutes last year. JJJ was ranked in the 30"s and Hill is ranked in the 60's. I love to have him, but as a freshmen he may not of made much difference.

[muwarrior69]

I think last year was an aberration; at least I hope so. Would like to see Mayo and Deonte really blossom. I hope Wojo can help Juan and Derrick improve on their weaknesses. JJJ, Steve and Dawson never were given a chance to show what they can do. I hope Duane has great season and as for Carlino and Fischer will have to way and see. It will be interesting to see what style of play Wojo has in mind for this team.

[77ncaachamps]

Let's not degrade Ahmed THAT much.

You and I both know that if he remained committed we would be giving Wojo a solid A/A+.

[Texas Western]

Let's not degrade Ahmed THAT much.

You and I both know that if he remained committed we would be giving Wojo a solid A/A+.

The question that was posed in the thread was how MU fared in the trade. Obviously we all wish Hill stayed and your correct we would be very happy, but the way it has all worked out I think we are still ahead as explained in previous posts. 

[keefe]

Let's not degrade Ahmed THAT much.

You and I both know that if he remained committed we would be giving Wojo a solid A/A+.

I wouldn't overstate his significance either. I rather prefer having Carlino to round out the guards and rely on Wojo to bring in his own 2. Hill would have been nice but he wasn't the second coming.