"I'm taking the basketball players over the athletes"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Things like this leave me to believe you don't understand what I mean when I refer to "systematic discrimination." The driving force behind racial discrimination in the U.S. isn't employers who consciously prefer white candidates over others.

The individuals you hired had great qualifications and experience and that's terrific. But how did those people come to have such good experience? To have such qualifications? It's more than likely they were raised by families that had the resources to feed them well, assure all needed care was provided 24/7, and prioritize their education all the way through college. And good for them for making the most of their opportunities and landing a nice job.

But how about a child growing up in a Chicago housing project? Will he have access to the healthiest diets, best care, and best education? Probably not. Will it be impossible for him to succeed in life? Of course not. But it'll be exponentially more difficult.

It's not a fluke that African American people, for example, are much more likely to live in poverty, often without any access to quality education. Rather, it's due to the legacy of their treatment in this country for centuries, and a history of racism and discrimination is inherently the biggest part of that. So until disparities between races in income, quality of education, etc. are gone, systematic discrimination continues.

+1000

Love this guy. He says it much better than I ever could

[ChicosBailBonds]

According to the 2010 census: 9.9% of white people live in poverty, while 28.4% of black people live in poverty.

There are two possible explanations I can see for this. One, white people are better workers than black people. Two, centuries of oppression against black people in the U.S. Common sense (as well as biology) tells us the former isn't true.

ONLY two explanations for this.....I see.  Yup, can only be two.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Things like this leave me to believe you don't understand what I mean when I refer to "systematic discrimination." The driving force behind racial discrimination in the U.S. isn't employers who consciously prefer white candidates over others.

The individuals you hired had great qualifications and experience and that's terrific. But how did those people come to have such good experience? To have such qualifications? It's more than likely they were raised by families that had the resources to feed them well, assure all needed care was provided 24/7, and prioritize their education all the way through college. And good for them for making the most of their opportunities and landing a nice job.

But how about a child growing up in a Chicago housing project? Will he have access to the healthiest diets, best care, and best education? Probably not. Will it be impossible for him to succeed in life? Of course not. But it'll be exponentially more difficult.

It's not a fluke that African American people, for example, are much more likely to live in poverty, often without any access to quality education. Rather, it's due to the legacy of their treatment in this country for centuries, and a history of racism and discrimination is inherently the biggest part of that. So until disparities between races in income, quality of education, etc. are gone, systematic discrimination continues.

To answer your question.  On my current team, one is here on a work visa.  She is Korean, but grew up in Sydney, Australia.  She has an MBA from Emory.  She's a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a Japanese American woman.  Went to UCSB.  She is a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a Hispanic American woman.  Went to Loyola on a scholarship.  She is a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a young man...gay and open about it.  He is caucasian.  He went to Penn.  World class swimmer at one point in time.  

Etc, etc with the rest of the team.

Most of my team is made up of minorities and mostly female.  Busted their rear ends, worked hard, got an education, paid their dues, etc.  Didn't let anyone tell them they couldn't do it, didn't let anyone tell them they had to rely on Uncle Sammy or that they had no chance in life because it was so unfair.

Somehow, they made it.  Somehow, they didn't complain along the way, they just worked hard and made it.  

Sorry, but I'm tired of the crowd that tells a group of people what they can't do, how they are not capable of achieving, how they need a big protective entity to survive.  What a tremendous disservice to people.

[wildbill sb]

Goddam, Chicos, you still don't get it, do you?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Goddam, Chicos, you still don't get it, do you?

I get it just fine

[brandx]

To answer your question.  On my current team, one is here on a work visa.  She is Korean, but grew up in Sydney, Australia.  She has an MBA from Emory.  She's a MINORITY.

Straight out of the famous Sydney ghetto, I would presume. Wonder if her ancestors were enslaved and denied educations as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Straight out of the famous Sydney ghetto, I would presume. Wonder if her ancestors were enslaved and denied educations as well.

First to go to college in her family...but keep throwing out excuses for people, raise the bar as high as possible, make sure that folks are beaten up and believe that they have no chance.  That is the answer.  That way we can keep the money flowing in, the guilt alive and well and the accountability at zero.

[RyanConroy]

To answer your question.  On my current team, one is here on a work visa.  She is Korean, but grew up in Sydney, Australia.  She has an MBA from Emory.  She's a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a Japanese American woman.  Went to UCSB.  She is a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a Hispanic American woman.  Went to Loyola on a scholarship.  She is a MINORITY.

Also on my team, a young man...gay and open about it.  He is caucasian.  He went to Penn.  World class swimmer at one point in time.  

Etc, etc with the rest of the team.

Most of my team is made up of minorities and mostly female.  Busted their rear ends, worked hard, got an education, paid their dues, etc.  Didn't let anyone tell them they couldn't do it, didn't let anyone tell them they had to rely on Uncle Sammy or that they had no chance in life because it was so unfair.

Somehow, they made it.  Somehow, they didn't complain along the way, they just worked hard and made it.  

Sorry, but I'm tired of the crowd that tells a group of people what they can't do, how they are not capable of achieving, how they need a big protective entity to survive.  What a tremendous disservice to people.

Your three personal anecdotes aren't indicative of anything, and nobody here cares about your personal or professional background. Why do you insist on bringing your own life into everything? Oh, wait, I have a theory.

[brandx]

First to go to college in her family...but keep throwing out excuses for people, raise the bar as high as possible, make sure that folks are beaten up and believe that they have no chance.  That is the answer.  That way we can keep the money flowing in, the guilt alive and well and the accountability at zero.

Well stated from your home in suburbia where Little Chico and Little Chico-ette are tucked safely in bed by Mom and Dad.

Meanwhile in the ghetto, Junior has other concerns. "I can't sleep when I keep hearing gunshots." "I hope I get breakfast tomorrow." "What avenue do I have to avoid today so I get home alive?" "Will I have a classroom without disruption so I can try to learn today?" "Are the dealers hanging out on my block again?"

Your arguments make it sound as though everyone has the same chances in life. I think we all know better.

[mattyv1908]

Well stated from your home in suburbia where Little Chico and Little Chico-ette are tucked safely in bed by Mom and Dad.

Meanwhile in the ghetto, Junior has other concerns. "I can't sleep when I keep hearing gunshots." "I hope I get breakfast tomorrow." "What avenue do I have to avoid today so I get home alive?" "Will I have a classroom without disruption so I can try to learn today?" "Are the dealers hanging out on my block again?"

Your arguments make it sound as though everyone has the same chances in life. I think we all know better.

While I don't dispute this reality, I've always wondered why that type of culture is glorified in our pop culture and emulated by those most negatively affected by that reality.

[brandx]

While I don't dispute this reality, I've always wondered why that type of culture is glorified in our pop culture and emulated by those most negatively affected by that reality.

Wondered the same thing many times. And those glorifying it usually have "made" it and should be doing the exact opposite to help those still in that situation. I guess money talks in every culture.

[Lennys Tap]

Some of us walk the walk, too many people talk the talk.  I don't live in a white gated community like so many of my liberal friends who talk a big game, but come up woefully short.  We chose to live where we did, turns out we are a minority in our town.  When picking a neighborhood, same deal...we are minorities and it isn't close....we chose the neighborhood based on many things, whom lived next door or across the street did not matter one hill of beans.  Love where we live, love our neighbors, the schools, etc.  So we're a minority...no big deal to us.

Wow. Just warned the board about your "shtick", the "I'm a minority in my own community," blah, blah, blah. And here you go, right on cue. Congrats, Horatio, you've pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and made it in spite of being a white guy in America with educated and well to do parents in a loving, intact relationship. We all salute you for making it out of what must have been hell but how about a little Christian empathy for those without your incredible drive to rise above it all.

[mattyv1908]

Lenny,  I understand you and Chicos don't see eye to eye.

That being said, you being critical is counterproductive to this argument and represents what's wrong with this discussion.  One of the main problems of today is that in past generations successful people were looked highly upon while today they are vilified for it.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Lenny,  I understand you and Chicos don't see eye to eye.

That being said, you being critical is counterproductive to this argument and represents what's wrong with this discussion.  One of the main problems of today is that in past generations successful people were looked highly upon while today they are vilified for it.

Like most gov't and union workers

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your three personal anecdotes aren't indicative of anything, and nobody here cares about your personal or professional background. Why do you insist on bringing your own life into everything? Oh, wait, I have a theory.

Does your theory include only two outcomes like your previous post?   

I don't know how Dr. Condoleeza Rice was able to do it, or Dr. Ben Carson, or millions of others.  Fortunately, they didn't listen to the BS that is continually served to people from other people that merely want to control them, count on their votes and tell them they can't succeed in life because everyone is against them. 

God Bless those folks and others that said screw that noise. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well stated from your home in suburbia where Little Chico and Little Chico-ette are tucked safely in bed by Mom and Dad.

Meanwhile in the ghetto, Junior has other concerns. "I can't sleep when I keep hearing gunshots." "I hope I get breakfast tomorrow." "What avenue do I have to avoid today so I get home alive?" "Will I have a classroom without disruption so I can try to learn today?" "Are the dealers hanging out on my block again?"

Your arguments make it sound as though everyone has the same chances in life. I think we all know better.

My argument is nothing of the kind.  Some people are part of the lucky sperm club, some are born tall (do you know taller people get better jobs...should we lob off a few inches on people in the future?), some are born smarter, some are born bald, or male, or female, or left handed, or handicapped.   My daughter has a disability, do you think I tell her every day what jobs in life she cannot have because of her disability?  F no.

But that is what one side does all the time to people.  "You can't succeed because you are oppressed"..."you can't succeed because someone doesn't want you to."  It's crap.  Of course some people have it better than others and some worse than others, but preaching constantly about the lack of hope, the inability to succeed, that hard work will get you nowhere is absolute B.S., yet we have "leaders" that do this all the time and are supported. 

That's where I'm coming from. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny,  I understand you and Chicos don't see eye to eye.

That being said, you being critical is counterproductive to this argument and represents what's wrong with this discussion.  One of the main problems of today is that in past generations successful people were looked highly upon while today they are vilified for it.

Definitely true.  Successful people are often held in contempt now, as if they didn't earn it, or it was handed to them.  It used to be people that were successful were role models and someone to aspire to, but the left has destroyed that image quickly.  It's never because of the work you did, it's something nefarious, devious, unethical that got you there.  And oh, if you believe in God, well double the contempt. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wow. Just warned the board about your "shtick", the "I'm a minority in my own community," blah, blah, blah. And here you go, right on cue. Congrats, Horatio, you've pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and made it in spite of being a white guy in America with educated and well to do parents in a loving, intact relationship. We all salute you for making it out of what must have been hell but how about a little Christian empathy for those without your incredible drive to rise above it all.

Well to do parents...LOL.  You know absolutely nothing about my parents.  My dad died when I was in my 20s you a-hole.  My mom was a school teacher for 40+ years until recently retiring...several strokes later and plenty of medical issues.  You know absolutely nothing about my family.

I have plenty of Christian empathy and help people all the time.  It is clear you don't understand this, nor would I ever expect you to.  I ultimately choose to help people that are willing to help themselves.  You can choose to do whatever you wish, I'm not going to judge you on it.  For me, I don't believe in handouts, they accomplish nothing in my opinion.  Teach a man to fish, don't just hand him the fish.  Pretty simple principle to live by, but you can live your life any damn well you like, just as I will mine.  

But please enjoy your gated community, I'm sure it is lovely.

[keefe]

Does your theory include only two outcomes like your previous post?  

I don't know how Dr. Condoleeza Rice was able to do it, or Dr. Ben Carson, or millions of others.  Fortunately, they didn't listen to the BS that is continually served to people from other people that merely want to control them, count on their votes and tell them they can't succeed in life because everyone is against them.  

God Bless those folks and others that said screw that noise.  

My grandfather and grandmother were graduated from Cal Berkeley. My grandfather earned a medical degree then set up a practice when he returned to California after post-doctoral work at Columbia.

They were married, owned a home, he had a practice taking care of people, they paid taxes, stressed education, and were active in their community. They had three sons and a daughter who studied hard and did what was expected of them. They were industrious, educated, well mannered, cultured, and obedient.

One day, government agents with weapons showed up and told them they had to leave their home and possessions. Each person was allowed one bag. My grandfather sold the house, cars, and his business in one day for less than $300.

They were forced to live in a stable for months then moved to a concentration camp where they were held behind barbed wire under armed guard. My grandfather practiced medicine for the community and my grandmother taught biology in the camp high school.

Each of their sons enlisted in the Army and fought in Europe. One earned a battlefield commission and one died at Little Cassino. My grandparents were given an American flag and his Silver Star while trapped in a city that warehoused people guilty of being different.

After several years they were allowed to return home. But where was home? Every material possession they had was gone. And nobody gave them a damn thing when they walked out the gates. More importantly, they never asked for anything. They rebuilt their lives from scratch.

And they always honored the son and brother who never came back. The one who died in Italy fighting for a country that stripped them of everything but their dignity.

In many ways, how we deal with adversity stems from our own personal dignity. My grandparents never spoke of that time in their lives other than oblique references. I cannot comprehend how debasing that experience must have been. And yet, as I reflect on these people, I saw nothing but strength, character, and wisdom. Never once did I ever hear any bitterness or anger.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks for sharing Keefe.

I spent four years of my youth living in 3rd world countries (with my "well to do" parents) in Central America and South America.  I suspect most of the people here saying how terrible certain folks have it have never even visited a 3rd world country, let alone lived in it day to day for four years.  Hearty people, they find a way, and they don't have time for whining and complaining.  Fortunately in this country there is an entire cottage industry to do it for them.

Some people walk the walk, most talk the talk

[Coleman]

My grandfather and grandmother were graduated from Cal Berkeley. My grandfather earned a medical degree then set up a practice when he returned to California after post-doctoral work at Columbia.

They were married, owned a home, he had a practice taking care of people, they paid taxes, stressed education, and were active in their community. They had three sons and a daughter who studied hard and did what was expected of them. They were industrious, educated, well mannered, cultured, and obedient.

One day, government agents with weapons showed up and told them they had to leave their home and possessions. Each person was allowed one bag. My grandfather sold the house, cars, and his business in one day for less than $300.

They were forced to live in a stable for months then moved to a concentration camp where they were held behind barbed wire under armed guard. My grandfather practiced medicine for the community and my grandmother taught biology in the camp high school.

Each of their sons enlisted in the Army and fought in Europe. One earned a battlefield commission and one died at Little Cassino. My grandparents were given an American flag and his Silver Star while trapped in a city that warehoused people guilty of being different.

After several years they were allowed to return home. But where was home? Every material possession they had was gone. And nobody gave them a damn thing when they walked out the gates. More importantly, they never asked for anything. They rebuilt their lives from scratch.

And they always honored the son and brother who never came back. The one who died in Italy fighting for a country that stripped them of everything but their dignity.

In many ways, how we deal with adversity stems from our own personal dignity. My grandparents never spoke of that time in their lives other than oblique references. I cannot comprehend how debasing that experience must have been. And yet, as I reflect on these people, I saw nothing but strength, character, and wisdom. Never once did I ever hear any bitterness or anger.  

Keefe, you are Japanese?  (making an assumption on the concentration camp thing...)

Thanks for sharing. I am furious at how this is still often swept under the rug in American history classes. Despicable and an embarrassing time of our country's history.

WWII may have been "The Good War," but we were not without our faults as a country.

[Lennys Tap]

Thanks for sharing Keefe.

I spent four years of my youth living in 3rd world countries (with my "well to do" parents) in Central America and South America.  I suspect most of the people here saying how terrible certain folks have it have never even visited a 3rd world country, let alone lived in it day to day for four years.  Hearty people, they find a way, and they don't have time for whining and complaining.  Fortunately in this country there is an entire cottage industry to do it for them.

Some people walk the walk, most talk the talk

Give it a rest. Living in a third world country as the son of an American citizen and professional (working for an oil company?) shouldn't be confused with living a true third world existence. And I'm very sorry that you lost your dad in your 20s. Honestly. But it doesn't have anything to do with your upbringing - that pretty much ends at 18.

Is it easy for a kid to have to move around some? I guess not, but you didn't grow up in a ghetto and you're not a victim now no matter how many times you play that card. Walk the walk? LOL.

Regarding your "gated community" crack, you are, as usual, way off base and out of line. I'm sure my upbringing was more humble than yours - but I'm not complaining - as a white kid born in America to loving parents I figure I'm among the most fortunate people on the planet. Grateful walks the walk. Whiners talk the talk.

[Coleman]

Give it a rest. Living in a third world country as the son of an American citizen and professional (working for an oil company?) shouldn't be confused with living a true third world existence. And I'm very sorry that you lost your dad in your 20s. Honestly. But it doesn't have anything to do with your upbringing - that pretty much ends at 18.

Is it easy for a kid to have to move around some? I guess not, but you didn't grow up in a ghetto and you're not a victim now no matter how many times you play that card. Walk the walk? LOL.

Regarding your "gated community" crack, you are, as usual, way off base and out of line. I'm sure my upbringing was more humble than yours - but I'm not complaining - as a white kid born in America to loving parents I figure I'm among the most fortunate people on the planet. Grateful walks the walk. Whiners talk the talk.

This. 99% of us Scoopers were born on third base.

Now, getting to home plate is still an accomplishment. It takes hard work, intelligence, and perseverance. But Chicos, make no mistake, you and I were both born on third base. If you are an American white male with access to a college education, you have a massive leg up on 75% of the rest of the population in our country, and a massive leg up over 99% of the rest of the world.

Many, many, people in our country have to start from home plate, and then advance four bases to get where we are. Them are facts. Do I feel guilty about it, as you suggest? No. But let's not deny the reality of the situation, and instead work towards a more equitable playing field.

[keefe]

Keefe, you are Japanese?  (making an assumption on the concentration camp thing...)

Thanks for sharing. I am furious at how this is still often swept under the rug in American history classes. Despicable and an embarrassing time of our country's history.

WWII may have been "The Good War," but we were not without our faults as a country.

Bluteaux

Funny you ask that question. My grandfather would have politely but firmly replied, "No, I am an American." More importantly, he would have left it at that.

Race is a funny thing. You cannot dismiss differences because they exist. Personally, I have chosen to celebrate the differences. Living around the world, I dove head first into the cultural waters. Another expat once asked why I 'wasted' time learning local languages. Cultural imperialism has many articulations - expecting a Javanese in Jakarta to speak English says more about the guest than the host. 

As I look back on my own childhood, an Air Force family bounces around while never really putting down roots, but our journey was largely in Asia and Europe. And it was never in the South. It was never discussed but I am certain my parents made a conscious decision to avoid potential problems. Fortunately, it is better today, though still not perfect.

Prejudice is not the domain of any creed, complexion, or community. We are all equally guilty. When the National Park Service opened an exhibition at Ellis Island on the internment of American citizens of Japanese Ancestry in WWII the American Jewish Committee protested its use of "concentration camp." The AJC went so far as to file a law suit demanding that the Interior Department stop using that term in anything but mention of the "Holocaust." Only when the Jewish publisher of the NY Times wrote an editorial saying the AJC lawsuit was outrageous and an embarrassment did the AJC drop their action.

I am always amused at the venom and vigor expressed here on Scoop on matters of race, intolerance, and privilege by what is essentially a group of middle-upper middle class Caucasian males. My grandparents would have appreciated the irony.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Give it a rest. Living in a third world country as the son of an American citizen and professional (working for an oil company?) shouldn't be confused with living a true third world existence. And I'm very sorry that you lost your dad in your 20s. Honestly. But it doesn't have anything to do with your upbringing - that pretty much ends at 18.

Is it easy for a kid to have to move around some? I guess not, but you didn't grow up in a ghetto and you're not a victim now no matter how many times you play that card. Walk the walk? LOL.

Regarding your "gated community" crack, you are, as usual, way off base and out of line. I'm sure my upbringing was more humble than yours - but I'm not complaining - as a white kid born in America to loving parents I figure I'm among the most fortunate people on the planet. Grateful walks the walk. Whiners talk the talk.

Again, you have zero idea what you are talking about, but you keep digging yourself deeper as if you did.  Living in Panama, my mom and her children (my sister and I) attacked in our "luxurious" one bedroom apartment where the front door was essentially chopped down by a person with a machete and part of the apartment burned.  Fortunately, neighbors (we lived with the Panamanian people, not in the embassy district or canal zone) bandied together.  My mom still has the police reports, etc.  Chilling to read.  All kinds of fun embassy stuff we had to do as a result because its not too cool for either the US gov't or the Panamanian gov't.  So please, you have no idea but you keep blathering away like you do with your generalities.  

Peru, was a different story, we did live in the embassy district.  Yet we saw REAL POVERTY all the time, unlike what happens here in the States.  You want poverty, don't go looking in this country because you haven't seen a damn thing.  You saw it daily.  REAL poverty, not the poverty we have in this country where Joe Blow has his LCD TV, iPhone and foodstamps coming out of his ears.  I'm talking REAL POVERTY....people dying on the streets...literally.  You have no concept of what I'm talking about, because if you did you wouldn't make such outlandish statements.

Too many people talk the talk and don't walk the walk.  Activism based bitching about the rich to pay more, or bagging on corporations is their calling card.  Fantastic...pat yourselves on the back.  To many of these talkers don't do charitable works, they don't roll up their sleeves and can't wait to provide the fish but never some accountability in forcing some folks to learn to fish.  

I'll help who I can, but while some of these same talkers complain about how tough the world is while punching in the passcode to their gated community, their 99% lily white neighborhoods, never opening up their checkbook for charity or volunteering a second of their time....I don't have a whole lot of love for them.  Sorry, I find those people hypocrites at the highest levels.  I have a whole lot of love for those that want to be helped and work their butts off for it.  There are people that do it all the time in this country (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, etc.).  God bless them all, I enjoy helping these people.   Unfortunately there are hucksters out there that don't want that to happen and make money on keeping people down and preaching to them that they can't make it.  Support whom you wish, but don't pretend to know a second of my life since you didn't live it.