2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[jsglow]

I would have passed on second down.  When it is 2nd and 14, I would put the ball in the hands of my MVP.  Agreed on 3rd and 16 though.  The reward of Seattle spending a TO there, or the clock running off another 40 seconds, is way greater than the risk there.

The biggest problem after that is the ease in which Seattle picked up that first TD.  They went 70 yards in 1:43 without spending a timeout.  The very first play of that drive went 14 yards, which matched their longest play of the day.  Then the next one goes 20.  Then an incompletion.  Then the pass to Lynch for 26 yards.

There is a lot of MMQBing about his decision making.  As I said, I would have passed on second down there.  But there was also no indication at all that Seattle was going to slice the Packers defense open like that.

I don't want to nitpick individual plays as a frankly agree with most.  But there was a general theme both offensively and defensively.  Play the odds.  Play to survive and not lose.  Never take the 'kill shot'.  When we did that, we ended up putting the burden on our 47th man (Bostic) not our 1st and 2nd men, Rodgers/Clay.  THAT'S what MM needs to take responsibility for.  

Let me mention one sequence in particular.  Clay gets a big sack and it's second and 31.  I believe it was 3rd down when we rushed 2 plus a spy.  They get the first down leading to the fake field goal TD.  Funny how we seem to use Blitz Zero and full Prevent at exactly the wrong times.  And of course the two special teams blunders ultimately come down to Slocum's coaching.  And Slocum reports to MM.

And more to your point about the quick 4th Q touchdown.  Perhaps, just perhaps, after Lynch stepped out of bounds and it got reviewed and set at the 9 Mike could have called his first timeout, brought the defense over, and said 'Put a f*cking end to this now, goddammit!'  But it's not in his nature.  It never will be.  So the learning he can do is to add some guys to the coaching staff who do bring that.

I get it.  It was a perfect storm.  None of us could believe it.  Still can't.  But if we don't use this to get better it will all be in vain.  Oh well, didya see that the Crew traded Yovani??  

[Spotcheck Billy]

Plenty of different opinions on what could have been done in here. That leads me back to not 2nd guessing MM since even among GB fans we don't all have the same ideas of how we would have handled things in hindsight.

[jesmu84]

Fangio, eh? Be interesting to see who the OC is. Again, I liked the Fox hire because, if nothing else, he'd bring in great coordinators.

[GGGG]

Fangio, eh? Be interesting to see who the OC is. Again, I liked the Fox hire because, if nothing else, he'd bring in great coordinators.

Fangio is a great hire for the Bears.  The Washington team couldn't get the deal done in time.

[MerrittsMustache]

I don't want to nitpick individual plays as a frankly agree with most.  But there was a general theme both offensively and defensively.  Play the odds.  Play to survive and not lose.  Never take the 'kill shot'.  When we did that, we ended up putting the burden on our 47th man (Bostic) not our 1st and 2nd men, Rodgers/Clay.  THAT'S what MM needs to take responsibility for.  

Let me mention one sequence in particular.  Clay gets a big sack and it's second and 31.  I believe it was 3rd down when we rushed 2 plus a spy.  They get the first down leading to the fake field goal TD.  Funny how we seem to use Blitz Zero and full Prevent at exactly the wrong times.  And of course the two special teams blunders ultimately come down to Slocum's coaching.  And Slocum reports to MM.

And more to your point about the quick 4th Q touchdown.  Perhaps, just perhaps, after Lynch stepped out of bounds and it got reviewed and set at the 9 Mike could have called his first timeout, brought the defense over, and said 'Put a f*cking end to this now, goddammit!'  But it's not in his nature.  It never will be.  So the learning he can do is to add some guys to the coaching staff who do bring that.

I get it.  It was a perfect storm.  None of us could believe it.  Still can't.  But if we don't use this to get better it will all be in vain.  Oh well, didya see that the Crew traded Yovani??  

If players can't get motivated to make a stop in the biggest game of their season, no rah-rah pep talk from a coach is going to change that.

[wadesworld]

If players can't get motivated to make a stop in the biggest game of their season, no rah-rah pep talk from a coach is going to change that.

You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys?  I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went.  My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.

[GGGG]

You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys?  I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went.  My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.

Yes.  So much so that they went 3 and out on their first drive.

I think NFL football is way more about adjustments and personnel than it is about "firing people up."  Pete Carroll was a great defensive coach (from the booth) back in the day.  He is a great defensive coach now because of his scheme and because he has the players to fit that scheme.  The Knute Rockne-esque stuff is a very small part of what makes him a good coach.

[Benny B]

Yup.  "I wouldn't change anything."  Fine, that's fine.  But did you LEARN anything?  Let's hope he has.

In other words, Bostick most likely won't ever make a similar mistake again, but will MM?

[hairy worthen]

You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys?  I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went.  My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.

Well, except they really didn't play better in the second half until the last 5 minutes.

[wadesworld]

In other words, Bostick most likely won't ever make a similar mistake again, but will MM?

Exactly.  I would be shocked if Bostick ever makes that same mistake again.  I would be shocked if McCarthy did not play scared of a team again.

Well, except they really didn't play better in the second half until the last 5 minutes.

Except they did.  They didn't put the football on the ground or in the other team's hands.  They were outscored 16-0 in the first half and outscored the Packers 22-6 in the second half, 7-3 up until the last 5 minutes.  I'd say that's a much better performance than what their first half performance was.  Was it an incredible display?  No.  But was it "[not playing] better in the second half until the last 5 minutes?"  Not at all.

[MU B2002]

Doug fired them up.

http://youtu.be/1GhBU22Z0js

[MerrittsMustache]

You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys?  I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went.  My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.

No. I don't.

These are professionals and this is their job. Coaches make adjustments and players execute them. A fired up, motivated team isn't going to win with a poor gameplan.

[wadesworld]

No. I don't.

These are professionals and this is their job. Coaches make adjustments and players execute them. A fired up, motivated team isn't going to win with a poor gameplan.

I thought the Seahawks' gameplan was pretty poor and they still won the game.  Then again, I thought the Packers' gameplan was pretty poor too, so I guess one of the teams had to win.  Seemed to me it was the team who was willing to win for 60 minutes and not 55 won the game.

[MerrittsMustache]

I thought the Seahawks' gameplan was pretty poor and they still won the game.  Then again, I thought the Packers' gameplan was pretty poor too, so I guess one of the teams had to win.  Seemed to me it was the team who was willing to win for 60 minutes and not 55 won the game.

What was bad about the Seahawks' gameplan?

[wadesworld]

What was bad about the Seahawks' gameplan?

I was expecting them to come out and run the zone-read quite a bit throughout the game.  They did very little of that up until the last 5 minutes, and we saw what kind of success they had with it at that time.  I'm not sure why they didn't do a lot more of that earlier in the game.  In fact, they did very little in terms of their usual deception (zone-read and also the gimmicky play-action fake type stuff).

[GGGG]

Oof...

https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557632358107852802

[MU B2002]

Oof...

https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557632358107852802

That's six if he gets past Wilson.


Twitta TrackaAdam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter  25s25 seconds ago
Ravens hired former Bears HC Marc Trestman as OC, per source.


lol.

[GGGG]

That's six if he gets past Wilson.

It at least gets them into FG range.

[MU B2002]

It at least gets them into FG range.

In looking at the photo, and guessing at DB speed vs OL speed.  Peppers would need to seal maybe one lineman.  I don't think any of the other OL can get an angle on him.

[MerrittsMustache]

I was expecting them to come out and run the zone-read quite a bit throughout the game.  They did very little of that up until the last 5 minutes, and we saw what kind of success they had with it at that time.  I'm not sure why they didn't do a lot more of that earlier in the game.  In fact, they did very little in terms of their usual deception (zone-read and also the gimmicky play-action fake type stuff).

In other words, Seattle made the necessary adjustments late in the game as they ran the read-option 10 times for 93 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter and OT. So perhaps it was a change in strategy as opposed to a red-assed, rah-rah pep talk that got them going.

[GGGG]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter  25s25 seconds ago
Ravens hired former Bears HC Marc Trestman as OC, per source.

So the Ravens OC replaces the Broncos HC who replaces the Bears HC who replaces the Ravens OC.

[wadesworld]

In other words, Seattle made the necessary adjustments late in the game as they ran the read-option 10 times for 93 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter and OT. So perhaps it was a change in strategy as opposed to a red-assed, rah-rah pep talk that got them going.

Like I said, they played much better from the start of the 3rd quarter even up until that point than they had in the first half.  And they did nothing different schematically.  So yes, the change in strategy certainly helped.  But if you don't think guys like Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, or Doug Baldwin were in the locker room at halftime giving a "red-assed, rah rah pep talk" trying to light a fire under their teammates then I just flat out think you're wrong.  And if you don't think those "red-assed, rah rah pep talks" are worth anything then I'm not sure why the camera caught Richard Sherman doing exactly that on the sidelines during that game.  If they mean nothing, what's the point in Sherman wasting his own energy to yell in the middle of all his teammates while they're getting "red-ass" whipped all over the field?  It's ignorant to think that "red-assed, rah rah pep talks" like Charles Woodson during the Packer's 2010 Playoff run or Ray Lewis during his last season with the Ravens didn't help motivate their teammates to play better on the field, even in the Super Bowl when you wouldn't think players would need any extra motivation.  I know I've certainly been a part of teams in big situations and become even more motivated to do what I had to do due to a "red-ass, rah rah pep talk."

But hey, they probably just all sat calmly at their lockers and had an even-keeled discussion about the 2nd half strategy, I'm sure.

[GGGG]

Like I said, they played much better from the start of the 3rd quarter even up until that point than they had in the first half. 

No they didn't.  They went three and out on their first drive.

[wadesworld]

No they didn't.  They went three and out on their first drive.

Okay, and then...?  Again, they were down 16-0 at the half.  Through 30 minutes, they were outscored by 16.  Over the course of the next 25 minutes, they outscored the Packers by 4.  If that's not playing much better, then I'm not sure what to say...

And nowhere did I say that a "red-ass rah rah pep talk" is the only reason (or even the main reason) that the Seahawks came back.  I responded to the question of what I thought the Seahawks did poorly with their gameplan.  I personally think "red-ass rah rah pep talks" can be very motivation, even at the highest stage.  Apparently Richard Sherman, Charles Woodson, Ray Lewis, and other other-worldly athletes do, too.  But Merritt doesn't, so it must be pointless.

[GGGG]

Okay, and then...?  Again, they were down 16-0 at the half.  Through 30 minutes, they were outscored by 16.  Over the course of the next 25 minutes, they outscored the Packers by 4.  If that's not playing much better, then I'm not sure what to say...

My point is that they played better.  Changed what they were doing.  It wasn't about someone lighting a fire under their ass.

Really, you watch way too much ESPN if you think that Ray Lewis crap makes that much of a difference.