2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I get where you're going with this, but Gomez in the last two years has an All Star appearance, gold glove award, and led all NL position players in WAR in 2013. Both players can be maddening, but Gomez is at a much higher level than Cutler

Totally fair.

Tough to compare across sports as well.

[RushmoreAcademy]

So hard to watch.  I never thought for a second they'd fire Trestman, but a couple more of these type of games and maybe they'll have no choice.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Carmen and Jurko were talking about it today. Brought up an interesting question if people would rather see the Bears keep Jay but fire Emery and Trestman. Or give those two another shot and ship out Jay. Overwhelming majority said to get rid of Emery and Trestman.

[wadesworld]

Carmen and Jurko were talking about it today. Brought up an interesting question if people would rather see the Bears keep Jay but fire Emery and Trestman. Or give those two another shot and ship out Jay. Overwhelming majority said to get rid of Emery and Trestman.

I'm down with that.

[brandx]

I'm down with that.

First, all football responsibilities need to be taken away from Ted Philips. Make him VP for Finance only and hire a co-equal football man to run football ops. Then let him hire a new GM and together make a decision on the coach.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

First, all football responsibilities need to be taken away from Ted Philips. Make him VP for Finance only and hire a co-equal football man to run football ops. Then let him hire a new GM and together make a decision on the coach.

Agreed, Ted is a great finance guy but that's all. He's not a good football mind. Need a strong GM and that weird president of football operations position.

[MU82]

Cutler IS a bad football player. 9 years with one playoff appearance and one Pro Bowl for a season where he threw 25  TD passes with 18 Ints. You replace him with Ryan Fitzpatrick and the record is as good or better.

I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.

I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."

Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!

[wadesworld]

I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."

Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!

Ssshhh.  We're all just Bears haters.

[brandx]

I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."

Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!

I had to be a Bear (Cutler) hater. I worked in Kenosha - lots of Bear fans there.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."

Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!

He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.

[brandx]

He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.

I get your point, but the QB has to give off a positive attitude ON THE FIELD.

[jesmu84]

I think that's all a bit reactionary.  I'm done defending anyone on this team.  But clearly something went wrong somewhere this season.  Cutler isn't a "bad" football player.  He's an average NFL QB with an elite arm.  Go watch the Jets or the Texans or the Rams to see "bad" QBs.  Alot of very smart football people forecasted a great year for Cutler this year based on a variety of things.  Its not just some idiots with blinders on at Halas Hall.  But he's played like crap, in an offense that has sputtered all year long.  Trestman can't seem to figure out how to properly utilize one of the top 5 RBs in the league so I'm not shocked when a QB is struggling.  This offense has been listing for 6-7 weeks, before everyone gave up.

I did find it hilarious when Gruden spent 5 minutes blaming a lack of discipline on offense on Cutler's snap count.  Tons of OL penalties on a unit that is...hmmm, coached by Aaron Kromer. He "flat out" refused to blame the coaching staff for anything last night.  Marquess Wilson gets multiple false starts, they show Cutler pulling him aside walking off the field to explain why he ran a route incorrectly, but Gruden won't acknowledge that Trestman, Kromer, and crew don't have a unnatural carnal knowledgeing clue.

I really couldn't understand why Gruden was taking everythign out on the players and literally didn't mention the coaches or staff (as a whole) once. Then someone showed me this..

[MU82]

He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.

You know what, I shouldn't have said that. I don't know him. Neither do you, of course.

Cutler might be the greatest guy in the world. He might be a douchebag. Charity? Bobby Knight, Mel Gibson, Justin Bieber and Dick Cheney have done charity work, too. Doesn't mean they aren't douchebags. And some who never do charity work are great people.

Still, just because I think Cutler is a tool doesn't mean I'm right. He very well might be Mr. Wonderful.

In the future, I will keep such opinions to myself unless I know for sure.

I do know for sure he is not a guy I would want quarterbacking my team.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Reports are starting to come out that Trestman will be fired at the end of the season.  Emery is 50/50.  It'd be nice to see ownership step up and acknowledge the train wreck and move on.

[MerrittsMustache]

I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.

Cutler was actually 18-9 under Martz with a trip to the conference title game. Martz resigned in part because of his relationship with Cutler and in part because his offense was a terrible fit for such a porous o-line and Lovie wanted to run the ball more, which makes the hire itself interesting. Hue Jackson (who interviewed) would have been a much better hire and fit. Bruce Arians, Jim Caldwell and Todd Haley were also all available and all better options than Martz (don't recall if any of them interviewed).

Mike Tice was promoted because no legit OC wanted to come to Chicago and run a talent-deprived offense for a head coach who was likely gone after the season (not a great long-term career move). Regardless, Cutler went 10-5 as a starter with an overwhelmed Tice.

The fact is, Cutler won two-thirds of his starts under Martz and Tice so he was a "winner" during those stretches. Did he play up to his believed potential? No. Does he deserve a decent amount of blame for the Bears' rolling through OCs? Of course, he does. That doesn't change the fact that the Bears made some bad hires, lacked talent offensively and still won games. The "coach killer" narrative is an easy one and a lazy one. Let me be clear: Cutler definitely deserves blame for the Bears oft-changing OCs, but he wasn't the primary problem.

[Benny B]

Mark Reynolds - .196 and 22 HR

Forget Mark Reynolds.  He's nothing compared to Rob Deer.

In eight full seasons between '86 and '93:
- Led the league in K's four times, came in 2nd twice, and never got out of the Top 8.
- Was in the top ten for AB/HR five times, led the league once of those five.
- Finished in the top 5 for E (as a RF) six times.
- Is 5th all-time for career range factor (9 innings) as a RF.
- Finished in the top 10 for HR four times, twice for BB

Although I will give you credit, the most comparable player to Rob Deer (according to baseball-reference.com) is Mark Reynolds.

[MerrittsMustache]

Totally fair.

Tough to compare across sports as well.

I've said it before: he's Carlos Zambrano!  Temperamental, tons of talent, shows flashes of brilliance, show flashes of incompetence, polarizing figure among fans, too talented to give up on, yet too inconsistent to trust in the biggest spots.

[GGGG]

Reports are starting to come out that Trestman will be fired at the end of the season.  Emery is 50/50.  It'd be nice to see ownership step up and acknowledge the train wreck and move on.

So they might let Emery make another coaching hire after this dumpster fire? 

[MerrittsMustache]

So they might let Emery make another coaching hire after this dumpster fire? 

I assume he'd go with an up-and-coming guy like Corey Chamblin or perhaps a guy who's been arooond the block a few times like John Hufnagel.

[RushmoreAcademy]

I've said it before: he's Carlos Zambrano!  Temperamental, tons of talent, shows flashes of brilliance, show flashes of incompetence, polarizing figure among fans, too talented to give up on, yet too inconsistent to trust in the biggest spots.

That's probably giving Jay too much credit.  Zambrano spread 3 all star appearances across a 5 year span.  He wasn't just "he could be this, if".   He won 16 or more games three times (once leading the NL), and had 5 diff ERA's under 3.50.  Plus for 5 years he threw over 200 innings.  Plus the guy hit over .300 three times.
He was one of the all time pains in the ass, without a doubt, but he did more for his team than Jay.

[wadesworld]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/12043769/chicago-bears-start-jimmy-clausen-jay-cutler-week?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

Hahaha.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/12043769/chicago-bears-start-jimmy-clausen-jay-cutler-week?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

Hahaha.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

unnatural carnal knowledge me... It's time to stop being a Bears fan when a Domer starts at QB...I will not be tuning in for the first time in a very long time.

[MU B2002]

Of course.  This season can't end fast enough.  I just fear that Clausen will go out and do well.  And unnatural carnal knowledge now you have to move Cutler.

unnatural carnal knowledge.

[wadesworld]

Of course.  This season can't end fast enough.  I just fear that Clausen will go out and do well.  And unnatural carnal knowledge now you have to move Cutler.

unnatural carnal knowledge.

That's my biggest issue with this move.  How in the world do you move Jay Cutler when you're starting Jimmy Claussen over him?  You're paying him what you are (I'm not going to argue whether it's wrong or right or necessary, but the fact is they're paying him as a top starting QB) and yet you're saying you're going to take your chances with Jimmy Claussen.  This is just a flat out stupid move in every way.  You have to know Claussen isn't your long term solution, so it's not like you're seeing what he's got.  Just not smart.

[jesmu84]

That's my biggest issue with this move.  How in the world do you move Jay Cutler when you're starting Jimmy Claussen over him?  You're paying him what you are (I'm not going to argue whether it's wrong or right or necessary, but the fact is they're paying him as a top starting QB) and yet you're saying you're going to take your chances with Jimmy Claussen.  This is just a flat out stupid move in every way.  You have to know Claussen isn't your long term solution, so it's not like you're seeing what he's got.  Just not smart.

+1. Why not start the rookie you just drafted? There's plenty of evidence out there on Claussen