College Athlete Union?

[mu03eng]

I dont know where you are getting your stats from but my parents dont make nearly that much. 70k before taxes sure but that was one of the biggest issues with the strike, CPS taxes the s**t out of their employees. But you clearly have a vendetta out for CPS so ill just leave you to it.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken CPS doesn't tax squat....city of Chicago, state of Illinois, and the Federal government do that, correct?

[Tugg Speedman]

I dont know where you are getting your stats from but my parents dont make nearly that much. 70k before taxes sure but that was one of the biggest issues with the strike, CPS taxes the s**t out of their employees. But you clearly have a vendetta out for CPS so ill just leave you to it.

Yes, today the average pay is $74,000.  The new contract calls for big raises through 2016.  $90,000 is coming in a few years.

That is why Rahm is closing schools (because of the crush of higher teacher salaries to come) and increasing Charter schools ... they are CPS with CTU teachers BUT they have a much different contract which pays them less.  The contract with Charter schools allows them to fire lousy teachers, which is impossible in regular CPS schools.

[jesmu84]

I dont know where you are getting your stats from but my parents dont make nearly that much. 70k before taxes sure but that was one of the biggest issues with the strike, CPS taxes the s**t out of their employees. But you clearly have a vendetta out for CPS so ill just leave you to it.

I always find it funny that teachers' salaries are targeted as way too high. But it's accepted that CEO pay must be exorbitantly high to attract/keep the best talent. Shouldn't that apply to every job?

I'm not saying every teacher is good or even deserves to have the job. There are some lazy, awful teachers out there.

CTU has done good, but also done some crazy stupid things. Like any organization, CTU and CPS have way too many execs/administrators.

[Spotcheck Billy]

wait a minute, is a thread about Northwestern football players becoming teachers in Chicago?

[mu03eng]

wait a minute, is a thread about Northwestern football players becoming teachers in Chicago?

Are you new to scoop?

[Lennys Tap]

I always find it funny that teachers' salaries are targeted as way too high. But it's accepted that CEO pay must be exorbitantly high to attract/keep the best talent. Shouldn't that apply to every job?

I'm not saying every teacher is good or even deserves to have the job. There are some lazy, awful teachers out there.

CTU has done good, but also done some crazy stupid things. Like any organization, CTU and CPS have way too many execs/administrators.

Here's the problem: the job of the union is to protect it's own. Because of that unions will make it as difficult as possible to fire incompetent or disinterested teachers. That is in direct conflict with the needs of the students.

The idea of public employee unions is (all things being equal) a bad one. But things are never equal, so a real necessity brought them into being. Now the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and it's the parents and students being held hostage. So it goes.

[warriorchick]

For example, lets look at how the school day was made longer for all CPS schools and teachers were not going to get any compensation or pay for working that extra hour.

The school system and the city are broke. It is not unusual for a private entity to ask its professional staff to work extra hours, or even agree to a pay cut so that the company can survive.  IIRC, Karen Lewis referred to having to work an unpaid extra hour as "slavery".  That is a perfect example of why Chicago teachers aren't given respect.  They are the people who chose her as their leader.

[GGGG]

I always find it funny that teachers' salaries are targeted as way too high. But it's accepted that CEO pay must be exorbitantly high to attract/keep the best talent. Shouldn't that apply to every job?

I'm not saying every teacher is good or even deserves to have the job. There are some lazy, awful teachers out there.

CTU has done good, but also done some crazy stupid things. Like any organization, CTU and CPS have way too many execs/administrators.

The fundamental issue with unions is that they generally screw up the labor marketplace.  IOW, they force an employer to pay a higher wage than the market will bear under the threat of a shutdown.  Now I honestly don't have a problem with that in concept.  For instance I think the minimum wage should be higher right now.

But the problem with public sector unions is that it is even further screwed up.  Public unions collect dues...use those dues in support of particular school board candidates...then that school board makes concessions to the unions.  Lather. Rinse.  Repeat.

And frankly this getting out of hand is what turned Wisconsin from a relatively pro-teacher, support the public schools type of state, into one that supported Act 10.  The chickens have come home to roost.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Maybe its just the raging liberal in me but I dont mind Karen Lewis. I dunno, I just feel like CPS teachers get such a bad rap in comparison to other teachers and it really pisses me off. Im tired of listening to the main stream media report such false claims and leaving out vital information.

[jesmu84]

Here's the problem: the job of the union is to protect it's own. Because of that unions will make it as difficult as possible to fire incompetent or disinterested teachers. That is in direct conflict with the needs of the students.

The idea of public employee unions is (all things being equal) a bad one. But things are never equal, so a real necessity brought them into being. Now the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and it's the parents and students being held hostage. So it goes.

Agreed

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Wow, that is the most insulting thing I have ever laid eyes on. You obviously only looked at the main stream media that were absolutely bashing teachers throughout the strike. Disgrace? No it was a necessity, so before you go along telling the world how charter and private schools are so much better and how the CTU is the devil reincarnated how about you get some of you your facts straight before going on that tangent. For example, lets look at how the school day was made longer for all CPS schools and teachers were not going to get any compensation or pay for working that extra hour. That also doesn't include what teachers do outside of the classroom and all the hours they put into lesson plans and grading. You know absolutely nothing about the strike besides what the mainstream media told you.

why do teachers seem to think that they are the only profession that does work at night and on the weekend?  Teachers want to be seen as professional and respected, but act & talk more line a line worker in a factory than someone with the level of education that many of them have.  Most salaried professionals work all kinds of extra hours "beyond what they are paid for" and it's just expected.  Teachers act like they want to be paid an hourly wage and punch the clock.

(I realize that this is a generalization.  But I have to wonder if that mentality is picked up in college or during the semester spent student teaching?)

[JWags85]

Maybe its just the raging liberal in me but I dont mind Karen Lewis. I dunno, I just feel like CPS teachers get such a bad rap in comparison to other teachers and it really pisses me off. Im tired of listening to the main stream media report such false claims and leaving out vital information.

Sweet lord, really?  Nobody here is taking shots at individual teachers, but rather their collective output.  And the way to fix that is not to have a belligerent, bigoted leader who pulls the race card every chance she gets and makes her collective union look like idiots.  You're lucky you had a great CPS experience, I have friends that say that getting into charter schools like Walter Payton is the only reason they are where they are.

Bottom line, CPS is underperforming by any metric, and now will have some of the highest compensated teachers in the country, spearheaded by efforts from a woman who if she made similar comments, with a lighter skin color, would have been removed immediately and caught unholy amounts of hell.

[jesmu84]

why do teachers seem to think that they are the only profession that does work at night and on the weekend?  Teachers want to be seen as professional and respected, but act & talk more line a line worker in a factory than someone with the level of education that many of them have.  Most salaried professionals work all kinds of extra hours "beyond what they are paid for" and it's just expected.  Teachers act like they want to be paid an hourly wage and punch the clock.

(I realize that this is a generalization.  But I have to wonder if that mentality is picked up in college or during the semester spent student teaching?)

My grandmother, mom and sister were/are all teachers. I saw firsthand the amount of at home work, after hours work, etc that needed to be done to be successful and actually care about their job. I contrast that to education majors I knew at Marquette and other colleges. I don't think most of those people realized exactly what kind of work they are getting themselves into when they decide they want to teach

[brandx]

For every educated, articulate and successful CPS grad like you this same system produces dozens of drug dealers, drop out, criminals and gang bangers.

I generally agree with you on most of your comments - but this one is patently ridiculous. The system has not produced ONE single drug dealer, criminal, or gang banger.

Those are all traits that are learned on the streets, learned when there is no parental supervision, learned in single-parent homes where that single-parent has to work 2, 3, or 4 jobs a week at minimum wage to support their children. (and I'm not even considering all those homes where the parents don't care.

Of course any private school will test better - those students are there because the parents care - but that does not equate to the quality (good or bad) of the teachers.

The one area where the teacher's unions hurt schools is that they continue to support the bad teachers. I know my daughter's frustration level is very high with the 2 or 3 teachers in her school who don't care anymore; they're just collecting a paycheck and could care less about the student's futures.

[brandx]

Bottom line, CPS is underperforming by any metric.

As opposed to white suburban schools? The problem is in homes and on the streets - not in the schools.

Malcolm Gladwell did a study about learning - comparing whites and minorities. He was curious because the testing always showed whites learning more. What he found was that if you did the testing on what they learned from Sept - May - there was little difference in how much students of any race or color learned. But when you tested from June - Aug. (end of one school year to the start of the next), there was a huge difference. This is where the white suburban culture paid off. Middle and upper-class parents have their children much more involved in the summer, where the poor minority kids in the inner cities are fending for themselves on the streets.

I really don't think there is a big difference in teachers in any districts. There are good and bad, caring and non-caring everywhere. Any teacher can tell you that when the parent is invested in their child's education, that child will do well.

[Tugg Speedman]

I generally agree with you on most of your comments - but this one is patently ridiculous. The system has not produced ONE single drug dealer, criminal, or gang banger.

Those are all traits that are learned on the streets, learned when there is no parental supervision, learned in single-parent homes where that single-parent has to work 2, 3, or 4 jobs a week at minimum wage to support their children. (and I'm not even considering all those homes where the parents don't care.

Of course any private school will test better - those students are there because the parents care - but that does not equate to the quality (good or bad) of the teachers.

The one area where the teacher's unions hurt schools is that they continue to support the bad teachers. I know my daughter's frustration level is very high with the 2 or 3 teachers in her school who don't care anymore; they're just collecting a paycheck and could care less about the student's futures.

Why is it that the exact same kids in Chicago Charter Schools have much higher results?  What is the difference between regular schools and charter schools?  Fear of failure.

Kids that don't cut it in Charter Schools will get bounced back to regular CPS schools (this does not happen that often, 2 or 3 kids per school per year tops).  Teachers that don't cut it are fired, period.

So don't give me the line that they are all "trophies" of "welfare queens" so they are destine to fail no matter what.  Yes they have it tough but if you introduce failure into the system, you get better results.

Until then the CPS/CTU are nothing but human warehouses that waste lives and opportunity.  Karen Lewis saw that none of the prison guards will ever get fired and they continue to be well paid.  

Blow it up!

[Tugg Speedman]

I really don't think there is a big difference in teachers in any districts. There are good and bad, caring and non-caring everywhere. Any teacher can tell you that when the parent is invested in their child's education, that child will do well.

My kids go to a private school in Chicago.  One-third of last year's senior class went to ivy league schools.  The teachers were paid 80% of CPS teachers (that is literally what they pay) and nearly 40% of the school gets scholarships.  So, some of the kids come from the worst homes in the worst neighborhoods and they do well.  They are expected too.

Giving me line that they are poor, black, disadvantage and therefore incapable of anything but crime and drug dealing is wrong and quote frankly racist.  Expect more from them and they will deliver.  The Teachers Union does not expect more and that's why we wind up with so many criminals and drug dealers.

CPS teachers are overpaid.  Simply they are not worth it.  Further then insult the better teachers as the system does not allow them to be rewarded more than the mediocre.  Take away incentives and you wind up with a lousy product.  Teachers unions are the problem, not this liberal nonsense about broken homes.

Once you understand that Teachers unions have no interest in the students and are their to protect the interest of the teachers alone, you will understand how vile they are and they should be eliminated ASAP.

We can start with Karen Lewis

[GGGG]

why do teachers seem to think that they are the only profession that does work at night and on the weekend?  Teachers want to be seen as professional and respected, but act & talk more line a line worker in a factory than someone with the level of education that many of them have.  Most salaried professionals work all kinds of extra hours "beyond what they are paid for" and it's just expected.  Teachers act like they want to be paid an hourly wage and punch the clock.

(I realize that this is a generalization.  But I have to wonder if that mentality is picked up in college or during the semester spent student teaching?)

This is it.  Exactly.

See people here say have mentioned how much I am on Scoop during the day, but they don't see me answering emails in the evenings...writing on the weekends...etc.

This is part of being a professional.

[brandx]

My kids go to a private school in Chicago.  One-third of last year's senior class went to ivy league schools.  The teachers were paid 80% of CPS teachers (that is literally what they pay) and nearly 40% of the school gets scholarships.  So, some of the kids come from the worst homes in the worst neighborhoods and they do well.  They are expected too.

Giving me line that they are poor, black, disadvantage and therefore incapable of anything but crime and drug dealing is wrong and quote frankly racist.  Expect more from them and they will deliver.  The Teachers Union does not expect more and that's why we wind up with so many criminals and drug dealers.

How many borderline kids are streamed into private schools? Last year my daughter had three kids with behavioral or mental issues. One kid would just leave class whenever she felt like it (5th grade class). A couple others were disruptive every day.

Anybody can teach at a private school where parents hold their kids to be responsible. Teachers are paid less because it's an easier job.

It has nothing to do with minorities not being able to learn - it has everything to do with environment and opportunity.

And your inference that there is a level playing field between rich and poor, black and white is ridiculous.

[Hards Alumni]

Public schools have to teach everyone that shows up.

Private schools have to teach everyone who pays their bill.

[brandx]

Public schools have to teach everyone that shows up.

Private schools have to teach everyone who pays their bill.

Thank you - I wrote about 6 paragraphs saying the same thing. You did it in a couple sentences!!

[Tugg Speedman]

Public schools have to teach everyone that shows up.

Private schools have to teach everyone who pays their bill.

How many borderline kids are streamed into private schools? Last year my daughter had three kids with behavioral or mental issues. One kid would just leave class whenever she felt like it (5th grade class). A couple others were disruptive every day.

Anybody can teach at a private school where parents hold their kids to be responsible. Teachers are paid less because it's an easier job.

It has nothing to do with minorities not being able to learn - it has everything to do with environment and opportunity.

And your inference that there is a level playing field between rich and poor, black and white is ridiculous.

Two racists here ... poor black kids from single families ... their born drug dealers, correct?  So don't expect them to be anything but a drug dealer.  In fact, let's just hire prison guards (CTU teachers) so they can get use to the rest of their lives.

In the meantime, teachers that care and try, see Hope Academy (one of the most innovative and effective schools in the world) are summarily insulted for taking kids from broken homes and sending them to Columbia and Brown.

http://chicagohopeacademy.org/

Want to know how to fix the CPS?

1) Get rid of the union
2) Hire Hope Academy's Bob Muzikowski to run the CPS
3) Get out of his way

[Hards Alumni]

Two racists here ... poor black kids from single families ... their born drug dealers, correct?  So don't expect them to be anything but a drug dealer.  In fact, let's just hire prison guards (CTU teachers) so they can get use to the rest of their lives.

In the meantime, teachers that care and try, see Hope Academy (one of the most innovative and effective schools in the world) are summarily insulted for taking kids from broken homes and sending them to Columbia and Brown.

http://chicagohopeacademy.org/

Want to know how to fix the CPS?

1) Get rid of the union
2) Hire Hope Academy's Bob Muzikowski to run the CPS
3) Get out of his way


Three racists

I have no idea what your point is, and no idea why you called me a racist.

I gather that you are greatly in favor of the model that charter schools use, but that is really all I understand.

If you really want my opinion on what the 'problems' with America's public schools are I can go into great detail.  I promise you.  I can't agree with you that the teachers union is the problem.  It just isn't that simple.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

How many borderline kids are streamed into private schools? Last year my daughter had three kids with behavioral or mental issues. One kid would just leave class whenever she felt like it (5th grade class). A couple others were disruptive every day.

My wife is a teacher also.  She says the disruptive kids drive you crazy and your limited to what you can do (since the parents often won't do it) and she needs summers off for her mental health to recoup.  And it's only 2 months off in the summer not the conventional "3". 

[Tugg Speedman]

I have no idea what your point is, and no idea why you called me a racist.

I gather that you are greatly in favor of the model that charter schools use, but that is really all I understand.

If you really want my opinion on what the 'problems' with America's public schools are I can go into great detail.  I promise you.  I can't agree with you that the teachers union is the problem.  It just isn't that simple.

Racism often comes in the form of low expectations.  Poor, black kids from single families have no chance so don't expect much and explain away their problems.

Conversely, let's discount what teachers in private schools do because those kids are "easy" to teach.  Why?  Because they don't come to school with a gun?  What's so easy about teaching kids that want to excel?  By this logic, Buzz is over-rated as a coach ... roll the ball out on the court and with that talent anyone can coach them, correct?

Teacher unions play into the racism of low expectations, these are flawed kids (they will tell you) so unionized teachers are doing what they can in an impossible situation.  That's what they want you to believe.  That way they are held to no standard (and no one can be fired) and no one can demand more of them.