College Athlete Union?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not to perpetuate stereotypes, cuz I knew a lot of smart, artistic guys in the factory when I was young, but generally their world was a lot smaller - not a lot of concerns about the market forces out in the real world.

We agree and a sentiment Uncle Bob often told me.  Jimmy Jack in the foundry doesn't give a rip, doesn't care what's going 25 miles from his home, let alone in Mexico, Thailand, China or anywhere else.  That was his constituency that he served and I respect that.  I just wanted him to ultimately admit that to take care of Jimmy Jack and everyone else comes at a price, with each goodie is another cost....eventually it collapses.  You either start cutting corners and putting plastic in the cars when it should be steel, you outsource the work to China that you used to make in Connecticut, etc.   It wasn't until his retirement that he admitted it, guess at that point it didn't matter anymore as the job was done.

Everything has consequences (on all sides...labor, management, government, etc) but no one seems to want to own up to it.  It's always the other guy that caused the problems.

[brandx]

We agree and a sentiment Uncle Bob often told me.  Jimmy Jack in the foundry doesn't give a rip, doesn't care what's going 25 miles from his home, let alone in Mexico, Thailand, China or anywhere else.  That was his constituency that he served and I respect that.  I just wanted him to ultimately admit that to take care of Jimmy Jack and everyone else comes at a price, with each goodie is another cost....eventually it collapses.  You either start cutting corners and putting plastic in the cars when it should be steel, you outsource the work to China that you used to make in Connecticut, etc.   It wasn't until his retirement that he admitted it, guess at that point it didn't matter anymore as the job was done.

Everything has consequences (on all sides...labor, management, government, etc) but no one seems to want to own up to it.  It's always the other guy that caused the problems.

I was lucky enough to work for a company that considered employees to be assets rather than a liability/cost. I don't think the majority of people have that.

But it's always been this way. Companies want a bigger profit. employee costs and expenses cut into it. It's not gonna change.

[GGGG]

Interesting take. When I helped my company make millions of $$$, I was an employee (and never needed knee surgery or had a concussion). When athletes help their company make million (billions) $$$, they are not employees. Good gig for the schools.

As I stated in another thread, it is interesting that the NCAA responded in a matter of just a couple hours as opposed to a couple years when a school doesn't require their athletes to be able to read. Especially as they stressed how these are academic institutions. Apparently they pull out the "academic Institution" card whenever their cash flow is threatened.

Yeah because if they are considered employees, they have all sorts of additional costs. 

But IMO this is because the NCAA has taken such a hard line on the issue of amateurism.  If the NCAA would allow for reasonable outside income, even sponsorship money within a certain framework, the issues like this would be mitigated. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was lucky enough to work for a company that considered employees to be assets rather than a liability/cost. I don't think the majority of people have that.

But it's always been this way. Companies want a bigger profit. employee costs and expenses cut into it. It's not gonna change.

First thing is first, they want to make A Profit, not necessarily bigger profits.  In my view, unions have done a nice job of putting many a corporation out of business and that benefits no one.  Unions will blame management, of course, but when your costs go through the roof and you are competing with a product on price, then that usually starts the cycle of doom where you have to cut corners on the quality of the product.  Consumers sense that, don't want the product anymore and death of corporation is at the doorstep.

Personally, I believe in profit sharing models, get everyone on the same page.  Things are bad, everyone takes a hit, things are good and people prosper.   This is also how gov't taxation would work....everyone with some skin in the game.  Everyone pays something.  The animosity from one side paying for all of it would go down incredibly and the realization from the side paying jack would understand that stuff really does cost something.  It can work for labor, management, govt, citizens.

College athletics...same scenario.  You want to unionize and get all the goodies...ok, when things go the other way, you pay out as well.  You make the pros, you owe X% into the union fund.  You leave school early, you pay a penalty.  Etc, etc.  It can't be just goodies coming in, the pie isn't big enough. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Nothing wrong with unions. Both of my parents are Chicago Public School teachers and apart of the Chicagos Teachers Union. Even with unions though employees still get bullied. Also, as a NU football fan I am really glad they are taking the lead to get this done.

[Spotcheck Billy]

But the critics of unions forget about sick leave, overtime pay, pensions and vision insurance
All things we take for granted even in our non-union jobs.

what are these things you mention?

[warriorchick]

what are these things you mention?

+1

[jesmu84]

First thing is first, they want to make A Profit, not necessarily bigger profits.  In my view, unions have done a nice job of putting many a corporation out of business and that benefits no one.  Unions will blame management, of course, but when your costs go through the roof and you are competing with a product on price, then that usually starts the cycle of doom where you have to cut corners on the quality of the product.  Consumers sense that, don't want the product anymore and death of corporation is at the doorstep.

Personally, I believe in profit sharing models, get everyone on the same page.  Things are bad, everyone takes a hit, things are good and people prosper.   This is also how gov't taxation would work....everyone with some skin in the game.  Everyone pays something.  The animosity from one side paying for all of it would go down incredibly and the realization from the side paying jack would understand that stuff really does cost something.  It can work for labor, management, govt, citizens.

College athletics...same scenario.  You want to unionize and get all the goodies...ok, when things go the other way, you pay out as well.  You make the pros, you owe X% into the union fund.  You leave school early, you pay a penalty.  Etc, etc.  It can't be just goodies coming in, the pie isn't big enough. 

Love this idea as well. Tie people's work effort and production to company success to money in their pocket. I know at former jobs if I worked harder, I didn't see any incentives for it. It makes sense, but it isn't very prevalent unless it's management, etc.

[GGGG]

Personally, I believe in profit sharing models, get everyone on the same page.  Things are bad, everyone takes a hit, things are good and people prosper.  

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140128/AUTO0102/301280039/Ford-hourly-workers-get-8-800-bonus-checks

As long as this plays out in the executive suite too, I have no problem with this.

[Tugg Speedman]

Nothing wrong with unions. Both of my parents are Chicago Public School teachers and apart of the Chicagos Teachers Union. Even with unions though employees still get bullied. Also, as a NU football fan I am really glad they are taking the lead to get this done.

I could not possibly disagree with you more than this ...

The Chicago Public School (CPS) teachers Union (CTU) is one of the most radical unions in The US.  Karen Lewis, the current head, is a radical socialists/communist (communist is not meant to be a derogatory term, she is backed by self described Communist Mike Klonsky).  http://michellemalkin.com/2012/09/10/chicago-thuggery-personified-meet-chicago-teachers-union-president-karen-lewis/

The strike last year was a disgrace.  She so radicalized the teachers they need three days to calm them down to pass the deal, a deal which makes them the highest paid teachers in the United States.  http://abcnews.go.com/US/Parenting/chicago-teachers-refuse-vote-contract-deal/story?id=17247513

Then she followed it up with her hate filled diatribe against "rich white people" essentially saying they need to "shut up and pay whatever she wants."  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/07/02/chicago-teachers-union-president-spews-racial-hate-speech-ignores-truth-about/

How about its history?   How many CTU past president have gone to prison?  Violence by teachers (or their union thug buddies) during strikes?  More than I can count?

I live in Chicago and have kids in school in the city (private school) and I seen the CTU and CPS up close ... if the KKK wanted to put together a system to destroy the lives 400,000 kids how would it differ from the current CTU?

The sooner charter schools take over and unemploy CTU teachers working in the CPS, the better off humanity will be.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I could not possibly disagree with you more than this ...

The Chicago Public School (CPS) teachers Union (CTU) is one of the most radical unions in The US.  Karen Lewis, the current head, is a radical socialists/communist (communist is not meant to be a derogatory term, she is backed by self described Communist Mike Klonsky).  http://michellemalkin.com/2012/09/10/chicago-thuggery-personified-meet-chicago-teachers-union-president-karen-lewis/

The strike last year was a disgrace.  She so radicalized the teachers they need three days to calm them down to pass the deal, a deal which makes them the highest paid teachers in the United States.  http://abcnews.go.com/US/Parenting/chicago-teachers-refuse-vote-contract-deal/story?id=17247513

Then she followed it up with her hate filled diatribe against "rich white people" essentially saying they need to "shut up and pay whatever she wants."  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/07/02/chicago-teachers-union-president-spews-racial-hate-speech-ignores-truth-about/

How about its history?   How many CTU past president have gone to prison?  Violence by teachers (or their union thug buddies) during strikes?  More than I can count?

I live in Chicago and have kids in school in the city (private school) and I seen the CTU and CPS up close ... if the KKK wanted to put together a system to destroy the lives 400,000 kids how would it differ from the current CTU?

The sooner charter schools take over and unemploy CTU teachers working in the CPS, the better off humanity will be.

Wow, that is the most insulting thing I have ever laid eyes on. You obviously only looked at the main stream media that were absolutely bashing teachers throughout the strike. Disgrace? No it was a necessity, so before you go along telling the world how charter and private schools are so much better and how the CTU is the devil reincarnated how about you get some of you your facts straight before going on that tangent. For example, lets look at how the school day was made longer for all CPS schools and teachers were not going to get any compensation or pay for working that extra hour. That also doesnt include what teachers do outside of the classroom and all the hours they put into lesson plans and grading. You know aboslutely nothing about the strike besides what the mainstream media told you.

[jsglow]

Yup, I worked for Steve Hayes.  My sister married a former BMU manager as well.  Small world.

I have a vague recollection of Steve's name.  We all worked for Toby Peters when he showed up from SIU in 1980 before heading off to Syracuse for a stint.  Toby was the one who initiated student management of the union.  Other full timers at the time included Harry Wade in the Mugrack and Charlie Potts as Toby's right hand man.  During my two years in that position, we had 5 Supers and ran the Union with full authority after 4p and on weekends.  Still probably my favorite job.  Ironically, my son currently has Dr. Peters for class.

Today, SSP (Limo) is run using a similar model.  'Sarge' is the lone professional staffer.  All management is done by students, one of which is my daughter.  Great leadership experience.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I have a vague recollection of Steve's name.  We all worked for Toby Peters when he showed up from SIU in 1980 before heading off to Syracuse for a stint.  Toby was the one who initiated student management of the union.  Other full timers at the time included Harry Wade in the Mugrack and Charlie Potts as Toby's right hand man.  During my two years in that position, we had 5 Supers and ran the Union with full authority after 4p and on weekends.  Still probably my favorite job.  Ironically, my son currently has Dr. Peters for class.

Today, SSP (Limo) is run using a similar model.  'Sarge' is the lone professional staffer.  All management is done by students, one of which is my daughter.  Great leadership experience.

I work for SSP too... Sarge is really just a figurehead cant say he does much. All of the work are done by the supervisors.

[GGGG]

Wow, that is the most insulting thing I have ever laid eyes on. You obviously only looked at the main stream media that were absolutely bashing teachers throughout the strike. Disgrace? No it was a necessity, so before you go along telling the world how charter and private schools are so much better and how the CTU is the devil reincarnated how about you get some of you your facts straight before going on that tangent. For example, lets look at how the school day was made longer for all CPS schools and teachers were not going to get any compensation or pay for working that extra hour. That also doesnt include what teachers do outside of the classroom and all the hours they put into lesson plans and grading. You know aboslutely nothing about the strike besides what the mainstream media told you.

Well, your initial statement that there is "nothing wrong with unions" is simply false.  Teachers unions have done a lot to "de-professionalize" the teaching profession.  Sure they have helped on a number of levels, but for instance working an extra hour without getting paid for it?  Coming in after hours?  Wow.  Shocking.  No other profession has to endure these hardships.  

Don't get me wrong.  They did a lot to increase compensation and benefits, but that came at a cost.  And part of that is that high performers are dragged down for the sake of low performers.  

[WellsstreetWanderer]

When parents are given a choice they vote with their feet. Charter schools, while maybe not a vast improvement, signify the desire for a better "product"

[4everwarriors]

Yup, I worked for Steve Hayes.  My sister married a former BMU manager as well.  Small world.

So, your sister's warriorchick?

[jsglow]

I work for SSP too... Sarge is really just a figurehead cant say he does much. All of the work are done by the supervisors.

And while the university shut down Monday night, a full fleet of Limos again rolled 5p -3a.  Just like every day of the year without exception.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

When parents are given a choice they vote with their feet. Charter schools, while maybe not a vast improvement, signify the desire for a better "product"

Im a CPS product. Attended Chicago Public Schools for 13 years and would not have changed any of it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Wow, that is the most insulting thing I have ever laid eyes on. You obviously only looked at the main stream media that were absolutely bashing teachers throughout the strike. Disgrace? No it was a necessity, so before you go along telling the world how charter and private schools are so much better and how the CTU is the devil reincarnated how about you get some of you your facts straight before going on that tangent. For example, lets look at how the school day was made longer for all CPS schools and teachers were not going to get any compensation or pay for working that extra hour. That also doesnt include what teachers do outside of the classroom and all the hours they put into lesson plans and grading. You know aboslutely nothing about the strike besides what the mainstream media told you.

CTU teachers will make north of $90,000/year thanks to the new deal they struck over last year.  That is with three months off every summer.

The latest statistics show only 63 percent of Chicago public school student graduating in 2013 and that is an increase over recent years. Among the city’s 8th grade students 79 percent are not at an 8th grade reading level.

And what did Karen Lewis, head of the CTU recently say?

When will there be an honest conversation about poverty and racism and inequality that hinders the delivery of an education product in our school system? When will we address the effect that rich white people think they know what’s in the best interest of children of African Americans and Latinos, no matter what the parents’ income or education level?

This is one of the most reprehensible comments ever made.

 

[Tugg Speedman]

Im a CPS product. Attended Chicago Public Schools for 13 years and would not have changed any of it.

For every educated, articulate and successful CPS grad like you this same system produces dozens of drug dealers, drop out, criminals and gang bangers.

[GGGG]

CTU teachers will make north of $90,000/year thanks to the new deal they struck over last year.  That is with three months off every summer.

Eesh...really?

For every educated, articulate and successful CPS grad like you this same system produces dozens of drug dealers, drop out, criminals and gang bangers.

You really can't lay that on the feet of CPS.

[mu03eng]

First thing is first, they want to make A Profit, not necessarily bigger profits.  In my view, unions have done a nice job of putting many a corporation out of business and that benefits no one.  Unions will blame management, of course, but when your costs go through the roof and you are competing with a product on price, then that usually starts the cycle of doom where you have to cut corners on the quality of the product.  Consumers sense that, don't want the product anymore and death of corporation is at the doorstep.

Personally, I believe in profit sharing models, get everyone on the same page.  Things are bad, everyone takes a hit, things are good and people prosper.   This is also how gov't taxation would work....everyone with some skin in the game.  Everyone pays something.  The animosity from one side paying for all of it would go down incredibly and the realization from the side paying jack would understand that stuff really does cost something.  It can work for labor, management, govt, citizens.

College athletics...same scenario.  You want to unionize and get all the goodies...ok, when things go the other way, you pay out as well.  You make the pros, you owe X% into the union fund.  You leave school early, you pay a penalty.  Etc, etc.  It can't be just goodies coming in, the pie isn't big enough. 

I think it's also important to make a distinction between public and private unions.  Private unions absolutely have skin in the game, if they push to hard and make a company uncompetitive, guess what no more company, no more jobs.

Public unions do not have this same balance and can at times sit on both sides of the table (union members or family of union members in elected office).

In the football scenario, it is much closer to a private scenario, but as you point out, for it to work you have to tie actions to consequences.

[Tugg Speedman]

Eesh...really?

Yes in 2016 per the new contract they agree to last year.  They made $75,000 last year.

Administrators, of which the CPS has over 3,000 have an average salary of $120,000/year (with the summer off)

You really can't lay that on the feet of CPS.

Actually I was laying it at the feet of the CTU.  And yes, most problems in a school system start with poorly qualified over-paid teachers.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yes in 2016 per the new contract they agree to last year.  They made $75,000 last year.

Administrators, of which the CPS has over 3,000 have an average salary of $120,000/year (with the summer off)



Actually I was laying it at the feet of the CTU.  And yes, most problems in a school system start with poorly qualified over-paid teachers.

I dont know where you are getting your stats from but my parents dont make nearly that much. 70k before taxes sure but that was one of the biggest issues with the strike, CPS taxes the s**t out of their employees. But you clearly have a vendetta out for CPS so ill just leave you to it.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Chicago Tribune today states that the mayor  shuttered  47 schools in Chicago and is championing 7 new Charter Schools.