The Gold?

[DienerTime34]

Everyone is so tough from behind their keyboard at home. Best way to solve this: Would you be comfortable calling a Native American a "Redskin" to their face? Shouldn't be any problem ... so many of them find it a term of endearment.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, I think eventually there will be enough sheeple that can't think for themselves and will get there or will be convinced that they need to be offended...cave into pressure.  It's worked so well with others.  Imagine being called an Uncle Tom if you don't think a certain way...eventually you start to conform.....love peer pressure, ain't it great. 

LOL. Someone who doesn't even know the dictionary meaning of "redskin" lecturing and  name calling people who do. Words mean something. Nowhere in any dictionary I can find is redskin an homage, only an insult. I know you would rather it be 1913 or 1813, but it's 2013. Deal with it.

[brewcity77]

Chicos--

In the Pilarz thread you discussed the portion of Scoop that called for no oversight and used 5 posters as the example. I never referred to that specifically as statistically significant.

I also like how you now ignore the poll you posted. The only numbers you use are 90 and 75, ignoring the numbers in the 50s and 60s from that same 75% thread.

I don't know where the cutoff is. I don't care. But I think 25% being offended is pretty high, and the 43% from the same poll that you posted (yet now conveniently ignore) is really damn high.

Let's go with DienerTime's plan. From now on, why don't you call all NAs you meet "redskin"? Go to Potowatomi and say "what's up, redskin?" to all the Native Americans there. If the overwhelming majority is fine with it, then I imagine you're good with using it in daily conversation.

[real chili 83]

Surprised this thread made it so long, and was not moved to the SuperBar or locked.

Been thoroughly discussed.

In before the lock.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes, I think eventually there will be enough sheeple that can't think for themselves and will get there or will be convinced that they need to be offended...cave into pressure.  It's worked so well with others.  Imagine being called an Uncle Tom if you don't think a certain way...eventually you start to conform.....love peer pressure, ain't it great. 

I don't have a number, I prefer to let a PRIVATE entity in a PRIVATE league doing PRIVATE business sell their product to their customers.  Those customers, currently want the name.  The people the name represents, also have shown support for the name.  When it changes, will be up to that private entity to decide.  Then we can move on to the next outrage...hoping its the Browns, followed by the Patriots...I mean, Patriots rings hollow with certain groups in this country who thing we are overly patriotic as it is. Has to go. So I hope they are mounting their campaigns.  Los Angeles Angels, clearly on the list because atheists have got to be having their eyeballs bleed every time Sports Center comes on and gives an Angels score.  That should be followed by the Warriors for obvious reasons...the anti War crowd is offended.  Of course the Blackhawks (yes, I know why they are called this...doesn't matter, someone is outraged somewhere), etc.  Any nickname that represents any human being (the DiUlio doctrine) should not be far behind....it's beneath us as human beings...by golly....and by golly I'm outraged by it.

I actually think you make a good point with the statistics, but it cuts both ways. You can't use the polls to defend the name, and then forget the polls and write off the "sheeple" if/when enough people don't like the name.

That's just logic, right?

[Pakuni]

In a survey by Indian Country Today, 81 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian names, symbols and mascots are predominantly offensive and deeply disparaging to Native Americans.

"Indian mascots, by today's standards, would be offensive to any other race if portrayed in a similar manner," wrote Fred Blue Fox, Sicangu Lakota. "Indian peoples are no different in regarding the depiction of eagle feathers, face paints and war objects such as tomahawks. These are all sacred to the people and therefore have no place in any sort of public display, let alone mascots."

Only 10 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian mascots is a respectful gesture and predominantly honors Natives. Nine percent of respondents did not know if American Indian mascots either honored or offended Natives.

Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ictarchives/2001/08/07/american-indian-opinion-leaders-american-indian-mascots-84807

[Coleman]

In a survey by Indian Country Today, 81 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian names, symbols and mascots are predominantly offensive and deeply disparaging to Native Americans.

"Indian mascots, by today's standards, would be offensive to any other race if portrayed in a similar manner," wrote Fred Blue Fox, Sicangu Lakota. "Indian peoples are no different in regarding the depiction of eagle feathers, face paints and war objects such as tomahawks. These are all sacred to the people and therefore have no place in any sort of public display, let alone mascots."

Only 10 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian mascots is a respectful gesture and predominantly honors Natives. Nine percent of respondents did not know if American Indian mascots either honored or offended Natives.

Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ictarchives/2001/08/07/american-indian-opinion-leaders-american-indian-mascots-84807

but, but, but, but, Chicos said it was ok

[Pakuni]

I actually think you make a good point with the statistics, but it cuts both ways. You can't use the polls to defend the name, and then forget the polls and write off the "sheeple" if/when enough people don't like the name.

That's just logic, right?

The polls that agree with me are valid indicators of public opinion and ought to be heeded.
The polls that disagree with me are proof that people are stupid.
Duh.

[Lennys Tap]

The polls that agree with me are valid indicators of public opinion and ought to be heeded.
The polls that disagree with me are proof that people are stupid.
Duh.

LOL. Perfectly stated. If polls agree with him, they prove he's right. If polls disagree with him, they prove he's right. Interesting universe he inhabits.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thought you guys might be interested in this.   WOW.  That would be 99.999999166% of the vote (I know, I know...these are shareholder votes which are often done with proxy voting blocks, but thought it was interesting)


FedEx To Stick With Redskins' Venue Naming-Rights Deal Amid Nickname Strife

Published September 24, 2013
FedEx shareholders overwhelmingly backed continuing support of the Redskins

FedEx shareholders yesterday "crushed a proposal to revisit company ties" to the Redskins and the naming rights for the team's Landover, Md., stadium, according to Wayne Risher of the Memphis COMMERCIAL APPEAL. Wisconsin's Oneida Tribe during an annual meeting at FedEx' Memphis HQs "made one of several unsuccessful attempts by shareholders to influence how the company does business." The proposal to revisit naming rights for FedExField was "made from the floor by Susan S. White, director of the Oneida Trust, and was defeated 253 million to 221." The proposal called on the FedEx BOD to "initiate a review of continued business relationships with the franchise and the potential impact of ending the relationships." FedEx Managing Dir of Global Media Relations & Events Glen Brandow in a statement said, "We believe that our sponsorship of FedEx Field continues to be in the best interest of FedEx and its stockholders" (Memphis COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 9/24).

[ChicosBailBonds]

Everyone is so tough from behind their keyboard at home. Best way to solve this: Would you be comfortable calling a Native American a "Redskin" to their face? Shouldn't be any problem ... so many of them find it a term of endearment.

Every time I read these things I get the idea that a lot of you just feel you are a lot smarter than these Native Americans.  Like they don't really understand how offended they should be, but you're picking up the slack and carrying the torch.  How else to explain that so many Native Americans have no issue with the name, but so many of you do.  You must not value their opinions or think their opinions are dumb, it's the only thing I can think of. Maybe they just haven't come around yet, but you guys will convince them what is right. Otherwise, why are you ignoring their opinions on this...the majority opinions of Native Americans?  Are their opinions less important?  3/5 of your opinions?

I'm not trying to be cute, I'm asking a serious question of why you and others here think so many Native Americans support the name.  Not by slim margins, by huge margins. Why do you think that is? Fair question?

Your example is really kind of silly.  I would call anyone what they want to be called....usually their first name or nick name.  No different than I would go to my Irish friends and say "hey Fighting Irish dude", yet I'm just fine with that team name as are most Irish....should they be offended and reeducated on this matter?

[brewcity77]

Chicos, I give up. If you want to ignore the polls you posted, I guess that's your prerogative. If you feel 40% isn't statistically significant, so be it. You seemed to want to use polls to create a straw man, then when he wasn't that strong, burned him down. I don't care what the nickname is, but if 25+% feel it's offensive, that's enough to justify a change, in my mind. You think the 75% render their feelings inconsequential. Hate to be a minority in a world you ruled.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Thought you guys might be interested in this.   WOW.  That would be 99.999999166% of the vote (I know, I know...these are shareholder votes which are often done with proxy voting blocks, but thought it was interesting)


FedEx To Stick With Redskins' Venue Naming-Rights Deal Amid Nickname Strife

Published September 24, 2013
FedEx shareholders overwhelmingly backed continuing support of the Redskins

FedEx shareholders yesterday "crushed a proposal to revisit company ties" to the Redskins and the naming rights for the team's Landover, Md., stadium, according to Wayne Risher of the Memphis COMMERCIAL APPEAL. Wisconsin's Oneida Tribe during an annual meeting at FedEx' Memphis HQs "made one of several unsuccessful attempts by shareholders to influence how the company does business." The proposal to revisit naming rights for FedExField was "made from the floor by Susan S. White, director of the Oneida Trust, and was defeated 253 million to 221." The proposal called on the FedEx BOD to "initiate a review of continued business relationships with the franchise and the potential impact of ending the relationships." FedEx Managing Dir of Global Media Relations & Events Glen Brandow in a statement said, "We believe that our sponsorship of FedEx Field continues to be in the best interest of FedEx and its stockholders" (Memphis COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 9/24).

Alight, forgive me if I'm being dense, but what does this have to do with anything?

[Lennys Tap]

Your example is really kind of silly.  I would call anyone what they want to be called....usually their first name or nick name.  No different than I would go to my Irish friends and say "hey Fighting Irish dude", yet I'm just fine with that team name as are most Irish....should they be offended and reeducated on this matter?

No, this is what's silly. The "Fighting" part of the nickname connotes effort on the playing field. No Irish man or women I know would be anything but honored if someone said "Hey Irish, what's up?" If you honestly think you'd get an almost universally positive response by saying "What's up, Redskin?" to a Native American you are seriously mistaken. You cannot possibly be this obtuse.

[MerrittsMustache]

No, this is what's silly. The "Fighting" part of the nickname connotes effort on the playing field. No Irish man or women I know would be anything but honored if someone said "Hey Irish, what's up?" If you honestly think you'd get an almost universally positive response by saying "What's up, Redskin?" to a Native American you are seriously mistaken. You cannot possibly be this obtuse.

Or does "Fighting" connote the stereotype of drunken, violent Irishmen?


Personally, I think that the Redskins are Daniel Snyder's team and, regardless of how much of an idiot he appears to be, it's his decision whether or not to change the nickname.

[Lennys Tap]

Or does "Fighting" connote the stereotype of drunken, violent Irishmen?

Only to an extremely sensitive PCer.

[GGGG]

No, this is what's silly. The "Fighting" part of the nickname connotes effort on the playing field. No Irish man or women I know would be anything but honored if someone said "Hey Irish, what's up?" If you honestly think you'd get an almost universally positive response by saying "What's up, Redskin?" to a Native American you are seriously mistaken. You cannot possibly be this obtuse.

Well....

[Lennys Tap]

Personally, I think that the Redskins are Daniel Snyder's team and, regardless of how much of an idiot he appears to be, it's his decision whether or not to change the nickname.

Totally agree. It's nobody's job to tell a person how to run his or her business. I think Roger Goodell should butt out - but that's another discussion altogether.

[Friends call me Shaka]

Cool post on what a golden eagle can do to wildlife....not a fan of the nickname, but this was awesome-

http://www.businessinsider.com/golden-eagle-attacks-a-sika-deer-2013-9
//

[ChicosBailBonds]

In a survey by Indian Country Today, 81 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian names, symbols and mascots are predominantly offensive and deeply disparaging to Native Americans.

"Indian mascots, by today's standards, would be offensive to any other race if portrayed in a similar manner," wrote Fred Blue Fox, Sicangu Lakota. "Indian peoples are no different in regarding the depiction of eagle feathers, face paints and war objects such as tomahawks. These are all sacred to the people and therefore have no place in any sort of public display, let alone mascots."

Only 10 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian mascots is a respectful gesture and predominantly honors Natives. Nine percent of respondents did not know if American Indian mascots either honored or offended Natives.

Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ictarchives/2001/08/07/american-indian-opinion-leaders-american-indian-mascots-84807

LOL.  So you get on me for a 2004 poll, then post a 2001 poll?

Would have been nice for them to post the internals, respondents, etc to prove out that it was a scientific poll.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The polls that agree with me are valid indicators of public opinion and ought to be heeded.
The polls that disagree with me are proof that people are stupid.
Duh.

Not really...I'm all for advocating for this poll.  Simple question, was it scientific...is it valid?  The others I posted were.  Are these?  Seems a fair question...don't you think?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos--

In the Pilarz thread you discussed the portion of Scoop that called for no oversight and used 5 posters as the example. I never referred to that specifically as statistically significant.

I also like how you now ignore the poll you posted. The only numbers you use are 90 and 75, ignoring the numbers in the 50s and 60s from that same 75% thread.

I don't know where the cutoff is. I don't care. But I think 25% being offended is pretty high, and the 43% from the same poll that you posted (yet now conveniently ignore) is really damn high.

Let's go with DienerTime's plan. From now on, why don't you call all NAs you meet "redskin"? Go to Potowatomi and say "what's up, redskin?" to all the Native Americans there. If the overwhelming majority is fine with it, then I imagine you're good with using it in daily conversation.

I'm not ignoring them at all.  Those were just subsets of the internals...the overall numbers were exactly how I stated, 90% and 75%.  The internals just break it down further, doesn't change the overall number.  If 55% of the voters voted for Obama, but only 38% of males, does that change that overall he got 55%?  Not at all.  The 38% is just the internals that go into making up the 55% (he might have got 88% of females to bring the overall avg up).  So I'm not ignoring them at all, they are just a subgroup of the overall number.

Polling 101.

You can go to Potowatomi and do that all you want.  The question was about whether a team should be called the Redskins, and on that the people have answered overwhelmingly they are ok with it.  Not even close.  Pakuni, to his credit, found another poll that says something different, of course we know nothing about the poll and it's even older than the two I posted (for which he had a great deal of an issue with the age of my polls....LOL).

[ChicosBailBonds]

Totally agree. It's nobody's job to tell a person how to run his or her business. I think Roger Goodell should butt out - but that's another discussion altogether.

It's very much part of the discussion, and one of the reasons I gave the other day.  Private league, private team, he can do what he wants.  If there is so much outrage over the name, then people can stop buying jerseys, sweatshirts, hats, tickets, etc...money talks and Snyder would change the name.

Thing is, people don't want to change it (Native Americans and non Native Americans), just as Native Americans have Redskins as their own team names at various High Schools and youth programs around this country....cuz you know, they like to offend themselves or something (so says Pakuni's poll).  If they wanted to change it, there would be a noticeable decrease in sales, etc.  Instead they have the 2nd longest waiting list in the NFL, 3rd most valuable franchise, #1 jersey in the NFL, etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Alight, forgive me if I'm being dense, but what does this have to do with anything?

We've been talking about the Redskins name, and related to the name was a shareholders meeting for Fed Ex whether to pull their sponsorship of the team because of the name. 

Hoping for a Braves vs Indians World Series so the poutragers can get really ginned up.

[Skatastrophy]

5 consecutive posts?

Take a break from the internet.