The Gold?

[Benny B]

EPIPHANY!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/cameras-capture-eagle-killing-deer-russia-144336036.html

Remote cameras intended to monitor Siberian tigers in Russia instead caught a golden eagle's fatal attack on a deer, snapping three photos as the massive bird dug its talons into the distressed animal's back.

London's Zoological Society, which distributed the pictures to journalists, said the sequence showed a rare but not unheard of attack by a golden eagle. The society's Linda Kerley said she first realized something was up when she approached the wildlife-monitoring device — also called a camera trap — and found a mangled deer carcass nearby.

Truly... we are indeed still Warriors.  Just with another name.  And Native Americans killed deer too, so I don't quite know where that leaves us.

[Pakuni]

EPIPHANY!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/cameras-capture-eagle-killing-deer-russia-144336036.html
Truly... we are indeed still Warriors.  Just with another name.  And Native Americans killed deer too, so I don't quite know where that leaves us.

We cannot stand for this violent caricature of a peaceful and noble bird.

[mu-rara]

We cannot stand for this violent caricature of a peaceful and noble bird.

but, but, but....deer are so cute.  Can't we get rid of Golden Eagles?

[ChicosBailBonds]

EPIPHANY!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/cameras-capture-eagle-killing-deer-russia-144336036.html
Truly... we are indeed still Warriors.  Just with another name.  And Native Americans killed deer too, so I don't quite know where that leaves us.

How about we just become the Deer Killers?   Or Bambi Bashers?

[ChicosBailBonds]

More articles today, including some more interviews with the outraged and those that are supposed to but are not.  Fairly balanced article

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/how-many-native-americans-think-redskins-is-a-slur/

[brandx]

More articles today, including some more interviews with the outraged and those that are supposed to but are not.  Fairly balanced article

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/how-many-native-americans-think-redskins-is-a-slur/

Same old argument.

If we had the Notre Dame Drunken Irish or LSU Lynchers or Mississippi Slave Owners, then whites would be offended. Why not the Washington Whiteskins? I don't think any Indians are on the team.

I don't understand why some people need to use someone else's ethnicity (which has absolutely nothing in common with the team) to feel good about their local sports heroes.

That being said, I still don't understand why a team can't be called warriors. It does not refer to any specific people/person - but is a complimentary, generic term. Old Romans thought of themselves as warriors; we commonly call our military "warriors"; I'm sure the Nazis saw their troops as warriors. Just a generic term than any nationality can use.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fortunately Dan Synder again yesterday said people can buy their own NFL team and name that team whatever they wish.  If they don't like his team's name, they can cheer for someone else....oh and he has the support of many Native Americans, according to SCIENTIFIC polling, the majority.

Good for you Dan.  The outraged can outrage over something else for a few minutes....I'm going to suggest the Amish slowing up traffic on roads paid for by taxpayers.  Damn Amish!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That being said, I still don't understand why a team can't be called warriors. It does not refer to any specific people/person - but is a complimentary, generic term. Old Romans thought of themselves as warriors; we commonly call our military "warriors"; I'm sure the Nazis saw their troops as warriors. Just a generic term than any nationality can use.

For us its because of Willie Wampum. If our mascot was a generic warrior, no problem. But we instead made one of the most racist mascots in sports history. We could have just changed the mascot (but not the name), but my understanding is that the tribes are worried that alumni will continue the legacy of Willie Wampum if the name is brought back. Not sure if it is true or not but I understand the fear.

[Eldon]

Redskins name and logo replacement contest

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/check-possible-designs-possibly-renamed-washington-redskins-154242468--nfl.html

What seems to be a popular replacement for the possibly offensive "Redskins?"  Yup, the "Washington Warriors"  How about that?

[MU82]

For us its because of Willie Wampum. If our mascot was a generic warrior, no problem. But we instead made one of the most racist mascots in sports history. We could have just changed the mascot (but not the name), but my understanding is that the tribes are worried that alumni will continue the legacy of Willie Wampum if the name is brought back. Not sure if it is true or not but I understand the fear.

It's kind of the same deal as the Braves. No, a Brave need not be a scalping savage, but the name alone brings racist activities. They still pump the Indian war chant music into the ballpark and fans still do the tomahawk chop.

If your legacy is of Indians, with a mascot as blatantly racist as Willie Wampum, you can't all of a sudden say, "Yeah, but Warriors has nothing to do with Injuns, trust us."

At least that's the argument. Don't shoot the messenger.

[StillAWarrior]

It's kind of the same deal as the Braves. No, a Brave need not be a scalping savage, but the name alone brings racist activities. They still pump the Indian war chant music into the ballpark and fans still do the tomahawk chop.

If your legacy is of Indians, with a mascot as blatantly racist as Willie Wampum, you can't all of a sudden say, "Yeah, but Warriors has nothing to do with Injuns, trust us."

At least that's the argument. Don't shoot the messenger.

I know that my memory may be fading with time (or maybe I was just clueless when I was at Marquette), but I really don't recall Willie Wampum from my time at Marquette.  At the time they used the Warrior logo that is incorporated into 'Scoop's logo.  I'm sure I probably did see Willie at some point during my time at Marquette, but I can't honestly say that I remember seeing him.  It was the Warrior logo and Bleuteax (who we can all agree was an abomination).  I will not shoot you, the messenger, but I completely reject that argument.  They could have changed the imagery and associations, and kept the name.  In my personal opinion, if they'd done that in a reasonably competent manner (which, given the "Gold" fiasco, might be a little much to ask), we'd see far less of Willie (and other Native American imagery) today that we currently do.

[Archies Bat]

At least that's the argument. Don't shoot the messenger.

But this is a message board, we must!

[mu-rara]

For us its because of Willie Wampum. If our mascot was a generic warrior, no problem. But we instead made one of the most racist mascots in sports history. We could have just changed the mascot (but not the name), but my understanding is that the tribes are worried that alumni will continue the legacy of Willie Wampum if the name is brought back. Not sure if it is true or not but I understand the fear.

My gripe with linking Willie Wampum to the mascot change has always been timing.

Willie Wampum was gone in 1971, 23 years before the mascot change.  MU did the right thing, way before they could get any credit for it.  We should have kept Willie until 1990.   Then we could have made a big splash by getting rid of Willie and going to a generic warrior.

I'm only kidding about keeping Willie until 1990.  Doing the right thing before any one knows it is the right thing is admirable.  Part of the Jesuit experience.

[Lennys Tap]

Fortunately Dan Synder again yesterday said people can buy their own NFL team and name that team whatever they wish.  If they don't like his team's name, they can cheer for someone else....oh and he has the support of many Native Americans, according to SCIENTIFIC polling, the majority.

Good for you Dan.  The outraged can outrage over something else for a few minutes....I'm going to suggest the Amish slowing up traffic on roads paid for by taxpayers.  Damn Amish!

Daniel Snyder owns the team. He can run it any way he chooses. So far he's batting 1.000. He's well established as a meddlsome, obnoxious jerk who has over spent for under performance on the field. Now he's going to the wall to retain an insulting, offensive and borderline racist nickname.

And you find this "fortunate" and pat him on the back with a hearty "good for you, Dan". I'm mostly conservative/libertarian. I detest the PC crowd and have no problem with Braves, Warriors, even Indians (except for the "Chief Wahoo" logo). But clinging to and celebrating a nickname that, BY DEFINITION, is offensive is backward thinking at best, racist at worst.

[BrewCity83]

Those proposed new names for the Washington football team are interesting, but they missed the best proposal that I've heard:  The Washington Thinskins.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He sent this out to Redskin nation yesterday


http://files.redskins.com/pdf/A-Letter-from-Dan-Snyder.pdf

[ChicosBailBonds]

Redskins Owner Dan Snyder yesterday offered his "most detailed defense to date of the Redskins name," writing a letter to fans explaining his stance on the issue, according to Shin & Steinberg of the WASHINGTON POST. Snyder writes in the letter that while he respects the "opinions of those who are offended by the team name ... we cannot ignore our 81-year history." Tens of thousands of fans and season-ticket holders "began receiving e-mails and letters from Snyder on Wednesday, four days after President Obama added his voice to the decades-long debate over the team name." The "often-combative" Snyder in the letter took a "softer, more personal approach than he has in the past." He also "rejected any negative characterization of the name." He cited a nine-year-old Annenberg Public Policy Center poll of 800 Native Americans across 48 states that "showed nine out of 10 did not find the name offensive." Snyder also "pointed to an April Associated Press-GFK poll" that found 79% of those surveyed said the team should keep its name. He "quoted leaders of American Indian tribes in Virginia who have publicly expressed support for the name in news stories." Snyder wrote, "I've listened carefully to the commentary and perspectives on all sides, and I respect the feelings of those who are offended by the team name. But I hope such individuals also try to respect what the name means, not only for all of us in the extended Washington Redskins family, but among Native Americans too." His "intended audience -- Redskins fans -- largely applauded the team's shift to a less confrontational, more empathetic tone" (WASHINGTON POST, 10/10). Snyder in the letter "invoked the franchise's proud tradition and his personal experience going to games with his father, Gerry, at RFK Stadium" (WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/10).

Of course, the outraged are having a different spin.  They know best. The last line below kills me...uhm, I think he was asked a question and he answered it.  It's not as if he was chomping at the bit to put that out.   




WHAT THE DEBATE COMES DOWN TO: In N.Y., Ken Belson in a front-page piece writes the name debate "tends to settle on one question: how many people must be offended by a team's name for a change to be warranted?" (N.Y. TIMES, 10/10). Also in N.Y., Filip Bondy writes Snyder is "just another holdout wrapping himself in the false romantic notion that his football team is somehow honoring Native Americans with its name" (N.Y. DAILY NEWS, 10/10). Sociologist Dr. Harry Edwards said, "For someone to be so incompetent, to be so deficient in terms of their facility and dexterity with the standard linguistic currency of the culture to such an extent that they have to resort to epithets in order to express themselves, it's not so much offensive as it is pathetic" ("Jim Rome On Showtime," 10/9). In Utah, Doug Robinson wrote the "end is near." The NFL and the Redskins "just don't know it yet." They "just have to decide how long they want to resist the inevitable" (DESERETNEWS.com, 10/9). CBSSN's Tony Luftman: "If Barack Obama, with the government in a shutdown, takes time to comment on this, I say it rises to a level of serious interest"

[denverMU]

Same old argument.

If we had the Notre Dame Drunken Irish or LSU Lynchers or Mississippi Slave Owners, then whites would be offended. Why not the Washington Whiteskins? I don't think any Indians are on the team.

Isn't this the point, those are offensive because they are negative and derogatory.  To my knowledge the name of your team is a positive.  I do not know of any teams called the Drunken Indians, the Lazy Redskins, or the Murdering Apaches. As far as the Marquette Warriors, when I was at MU, there was a Native American as the mascot and he received a full ride scholarship.  Not bad for getting to see all the games for free. Of course if he was at a party, in high school, with beer he probably would have to give up his scholarship.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

h/t The Onion

(can a mod resize this SOB?)

[4everwarriors]

Need help resizin'? Try the junior or petite dept.

[Lennys Tap]

He sent this out to Redskin nation yesterday


http://files.redskins.com/pdf/A-Letter-from-Dan-Snyder.pdf

Snyder has fond memories of going to watch the Redskins when he was 6. So what? I'm sure some now grown men from Pekin, Illinois have fond memories of watching the Chinks play. If changing a derogatory nickname soils those memories I'd say it's pretty clear those little boys haven't grown up much.

[GGGG]

Snyder has fond memories of going to watch the Redskins when he was 6. So what? I'm sure some now grown men from Pekin, Illinois have fond memories of watching the Chinks play. If changing a derogatory nickname soils those memories I'd say it's pretty clear those little boys haven't grown up much.

Furthermore, changing the nickname shouldn't cause you to enjoy the product any more or less.

I mean, I hate the fact that MU is no longer the Warriors, but I don't love the basketball team any less than I would have otherwise. 

[MU82]

Redskins does not equal Drunken This or Lazy That. All the use of adjectives before a name does is cloud an argument.

Redskins = Darkies.

We wouldn't name a team the Darkies.

Back in the early '90s, I was the moderator on a panel to discuss the use of Native American imagery in sports. As I sat there, listening to white people tell the two Native Americans on the panel that they really had no reason to be insulted by "traditions" such as the Redskins nickname or Chief Wahoo, it did open my eyes to the Native Americans' point of view.

I wonder if those same folks would have tried to say Darkies was OK, too.

[Lennys Tap]

Redskins does not equal Drunken This or Lazy That. All the use of adjectives before a name does is cloud an argument.

Redskins = Darkies.

We wouldn't name a team the Darkies.

Back in the early '90s, I was the moderator on a panel to discuss the use of Native American imagery in sports. As I sat there, listening to white people tell the two Native Americans on the panel that they really had no reason to be insulted by "traditions" such as the Redskins nickname or Chief Wahoo, it did open my eyes to the Native Americans' point of view.

I wonder if those same folks would have tried to say Darkies was OK, too.

If you can find a tradition to dress it up in I'm sure they would.

[denverMU]

Redskins = Darkies.

We wouldn't name a team the Darkies.

What a crock of crap!  The only people who think Redskins=Darkies are people who are prejudiced.  Look in the mirror.  Why would anyone name the team they love and root for after something they hate? That makes no sense.  You think Snyder bought the team so he could go root for the Darkies?  There will always be people, like the Rev. Al Sharpton and some on this board who complain just to try and stay relevant.  No fan likes the name of his team because he wants to insult someone.