Definitive guide to the goold old days

[willie warrior]

The evolution of Pipe Smoking in the United States

You forgot the classic shot of Willem Dafoe and Charlie Sheen smoking dope through a shot gun barrel from Platoon!

[StillAWarrior]

One of these days a bunch of you guys have got to get together, grab a ruler and whip them out.  One d*** measuring contest to settle this once and for all, instead of doing it in virtually every thread.

[Pakuni]

One of these days a bunch of you guys have got to get together, grab a ruler and whip them out.  One d*** measuring contest to settle this once and for all, instead of doing it in virtually every thread.

I'm going to need a yardstick.

[Jay Bee]

I'm going to need a yardstick.

(Not to measure; it's just one of Pakuni's odd fetishes.)

Everyone: please list your AGI from the past three years!

[Pakuni]

(Not to measure; it's just one of Pakuni's odd fetishes.)

Everyone: please list your AGI from the past three years!

What makes you think it's odd?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Perhaps you didn't mature as quickly as young Chicos?

I'll tell you all what... advancements in technology open up so many additional opportunities for people - and is one of many ways for "poor" people to improve their economic standing, if desired. Not enough have realized it yet and they probably never will.

The point of no return has probably long passed. The divide is such that (too) big government is here to stay. That's why living on an isolated compound is the life for me.

Also, no matter how long and baggy shorts get, they are an improvement over the sickening basketball shorts of the not-so-distant days of yesteryear.

Don't think it has a thing to do with maturity.  In my mind it has to do with life events.  It doesn't surprise me that Lenny, or Connecticut, or Sultan can't remember much of their childhood, that's probably pretty normal.  It depends on what may have happened as triggers to instill those memories.

When you're a kid that moves from Texas to Panama to California to Peru to California then is transferred to Africa....it impacts your life moreso than if you spent the entire time in one place, one school.  When you survive a hideous earthquake that killed massive number of people...that burns a memory (I will never forget that day). When you're in the 7th grade and your dad is in critical condition for 20+ days, that's not "normal" but burns a memory into your childhood.  I was the one that found my dad and called the paramedics...that memory will forever be burned into my childhood.  The interesting part is my sister, who lived in all the same places doesn't remember any of it and doctors have told her they think my dad's long stay in the hospital in which he should have died probably caused her to essentially suppress her childhood memories.

We're all different.  I remember stuff vividly, others don't.  What I find a bit ironic is some people in this thread complaining that I was using my experiences to extrapolate how the golden times were are now using their experiences in their childhood memories to imply that is the ability of people to remember things.  We're all different.

By the way, there are some people the remember things to the extreme that is mind boggling.  Marilu Henner is one such person.  That's a gift.  http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/05/01/seen-at-11-rare-mental-condition-gives-actress-henner-super-human-memory/

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was a history major (and M.A.), and you nailed it. "Big Government" has led to the most prosperous decades of our country's existence, largely due to the military-industrial complex and funding that led to major innovations in science and technology in the 1940s, 50s and 60s (the space race, or semiconductors anyone?), major upgrades in infrastructure (Eisenhower's Interstate system), massive improvements in medicine (courtesy of NIH) and increases in educational achievement (GI Bill).

Now, I'm not saying this is all a good thing. One can make solid arguments against the military-industrial complex. But there's no disputing the fact that America's best economic times were largely funded by the federal government, and the Defense Department in particular.  

To answer your question about private sector resentment towards the CCC, there was some, but FDR had massive amounts of political capital to make it happen. In general, the federal programs such as the CCC, TVA, etc. were  lauded by both sides of the aisle. Part of this was because there were so little private sector jobs available (1/3 of the country was unemployed), and people could see the value in these programs were providing in upgrading infrastructure. These programs resulted in public school buildings, parks and bridges that everyone in society used. And to be frank, you didn't have things like political talk radio or television that was as divisive and misinforming the public.

I was a history major (among others) as well.  I disagree with you saying there is no disputing that.  UCLA has done just that. 

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/fdr-s-policies-prolonged-depression-5409.aspx

Plenty of books out there on the subject as well. 

This is not to say that economies don't grow when the gov't is spending billions or trillions of dollars, they damn well better be.  There is also a bill to be paid for that rather than kicking the can down the road as we often do, only racking up more debt in the process.  As for political talk radio or television "misinforming the public"...do you think the gov't and its operatives do anything less?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Don't think it has a thing to do with maturity.  In my mind it has to do with life events.  It doesn't surprise me that Lenny, or Connecticut, or Sultan can't remember much of their childhood, that's probably pretty normal.  It depends on what may have happened as triggers to instill those memories.

I actually remember quite a bit of details from my early childhood.  I just touched a very few of the most remembered.  Of course, I remember the gas shortage and the even-odd license plate number deal, but I obviously didn't drive, so it never was a concern and my parents treated it like "it is what it is" and isn't something that in my 2013 mindset that makes me reflect back as a reason why the 1970s were a Debbie Downer.   

There's that old Austin Powers line that appproximately goes, "You didn't miss much baby, there was a a gas shortage and a Flock of Seagulls, and that's really it."

[Coleman]

I was a history major (among others) as well.  I disagree with you saying there is no disputing that.  UCLA has done just that.  

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/fdr-s-policies-prolonged-depression-5409.aspx

I wasn't talking about FDR's policies in the 1930s and the depression. Take another look at what I wrote. They were post-War programs.

The New Deal programs (CCC, TVA, etc.) didn't get the country out of depression. World War II took care of that (see my comments on military-industrial complex). What the New Deal programs did do is provide relief and jobs to citizens.  

[Lennys Tap]

Don't think it has a thing to do with maturity.  In my mind it has to do with life events.  It doesn't surprise me that Lenny, or Connecticut, or Sultan can't remember much of their childhood, that's probably pretty normal.  It depends on what may have happened as triggers to instill those memories.

When you're a kid that moves from Texas to Panama to California to Peru to California then is transferred to Africa....it impacts your life moreso than if you spent the entire time in one place, one school.  When you survive a hideous earthquake that killed massive number of people...that burns a memory (I will never forget that day). When you're in the 7th grade and your dad is in critical condition for 20+ days, that's not "normal" but burns a memory into your childhood.  I was the one that found my dad and called the paramedics...that memory will forever be burned into my childhood.  The interesting part is my sister, who lived in all the same places doesn't remember any of it and doctors have told her they think my dad's long stay in the hospital in which he should have died probably caused her to essentially suppress her childhood memories.

We're all different.  I remember stuff vividly, others don't.  What I find a bit ironic is some people in this thread complaining that I was using my experiences to extrapolate how the golden times were are now using their experiences in their childhood memories to imply that is the ability of people to remember things.  We're all different.

By the way, there are some people the remember things to the extreme that is mind boggling.  Marilu Henner is one such person.  That's a gift.  http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/05/01/seen-at-11-rare-mental-condition-gives-actress-henner-super-human-memory/

It's not a case of remembering things or not. I'm starting to slip a little on the near term (where are my keys,  why did I walk into this room, etc) but my recall of the past is just fine. Lyrics to old songs, details from sporting or family events - I'm my friends and family's go to guy. When my high school wrestling coach lost some of the meticulous records he kept from every season in a flood he called me to fill in the blanks. I wow them on the trivia contests at high school and grade school reunions.

Every childhood has memories good and bad. Martyrdom is available to anyone who wants to dwell on the negative. Some people actually like it, others can't help it. But happy, well adjusted people crowd out the bad memories with the much more plentiful good ones until they are much less vivid.

[NersEllenson]

When you're a kid that moves from Texas to Panama to California to Peru to California then is transferred to Africa....it impacts your life moreso than if you spent the entire time in one place, one school.  When you survive a hideous earthquake that killed massive number of people...that burns a memory (I will never forget that day). When you're in the 7th grade and your dad is in critical condition for 20+ days, that's not "normal" but burns a memory into your childhood.  I was the one that found my dad and called the paramedics...that memory will forever be burned into my childhood.  The interesting part is my sister, who lived in all the same places doesn't remember any of it and doctors have told her they think my dad's long stay in the hospital in which he should have died probably caused her to essentially suppress her childhood memories.

Wow - that's a lot to go through Chicos..even though we battle - I applaud you for overcoming all of that and living a successful life.  Good for you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wasn't talking about FDR's policies in the 1930s and the depression. Take another look at what I wrote. They were post-War programs.

The New Deal programs (CCC, TVA, etc.) didn't get the country out of depression. World War II took care of that (see my comments on military-industrial complex). What the New Deal programs did do is provide relief and jobs to citizens.  

I used it as one example of massive gov't infusion of dollars spent that didn't pay off. 

The question becomes whether the New Deal provided temporary relief that had to be paid for many times over down the road and was highly inefficient as a result?  Or another way of stating it, could the money have been spent a lot better, more productively, with greater results?  Plenty of great books and studies over the years arguing about the success and failures of the New Deal, so again I don't think you can say it is unquestioned.  Many unintended consequences arose.  CCC, TVA, etc...on their own, sure....but whenever isolating these things on their own you invariably leave out the tentacles they touch or the opportunities avoided.  Nature of the beast and impossible to prove out.  Example...give the women's soccer team an extra $1M to their budget and as a result in 4 years they win 15% more of their games which they attribute to a larger recruiting budget, getting better players, better training, etc.  On the whole, a success.......oh, but that $1M meant women's volleyball, track, volleyball each got $333K less and they all lost 5% more of their games.  You get the idea...an elementary example but easily could make similar ones for business, gov't, you name it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wow - that's a lot to go through Chicos..even though we battle - I applaud you for overcoming all of that and living a successful life.  Good for you.

My mom is a saint and kept everyone together.  Strong lady, she's gone through a lot.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's not a case of remembering things or not. I'm starting to slip a little on the near term (where are my keys,  why did I walk into this room, etc) but my recall of the past is just fine. Lyrics to old songs, details from sporting or family events - I'm my friends and family's go to guy. When my high school wrestling coach lost some of the meticulous records he kept from every season in a flood he called me to fill in the blanks. I wow them on the trivia contests at high school and grade school reunions.

Every childhood has memories good and bad. Martyrdom is available to anyone who wants to dwell on the negative. Some people actually like it, others can't help it. But happy, well adjusted people crowd out the bad memories with the much more plentiful good ones until they are much less vivid.

To a large degree I think you are right.  You have to adjust your psyche to overcome some of those negative things, otherwise you end up checking out some day.  Your examples (lyrics, etc) trigger many memories as well.  Didn't know you were a wrestler...my dad wrestled in college at the varsity level.

But I do believe there are certain triggers that manifest those memories.  There are years that I don't remember much of anything really happening, and there are years where really cool or really bad stuff happened and those triggers resonate one way or another.  For me, at least, I remember so much stuff about pop culture, politics, history, sports, etc, from decade to decade by tying it into what was going on personally or with family.  It's a linkage trick (or curse...depending on your POV) for me.

[willie warrior]

What happened to the pipe smoking evolution? Can't you people stay on thread?

By the way, a question for the female posters--do any of you think that Cary Grant and Gable were studs? There were rumors that Gable was bi-sexual.

[Sunbelt15]

I was referencing more in terms of society in general.  Rule of law.  Contracts followed.  Crime.  Neighborly.  Sense of honor.  Divorce rates, single mother explosion, poverty, etc.  These are the things I hear often when talking to people that were alive during that era.  The Golden Age of America after WWII, the 1950's and early 1960's.  GDP #1 per capita in the 1950's...today it is #13.  Land of opportunity.  70% of American adults were married...today it is 48%.  Less religious, less respectful.  13 million manufacturing jobs in the 1950's...in 2012 12 million. 

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

I don't know if crime overall has changed as far as rate, but I would have to say that violent crime is aimed toward children more now. Times may have changed in that aspect. I grew up in the projects and playing til 10 at night was normal with no supervision. Today, it's a pipe dream to allow my pre and young teen to roam the neighborhood (which is 100 times better than where I grew up) at that time of night, unless their at a stationary, supervised event (skating ring, bowling alley, etc.). And because of kids unwillingness to speak on crime because of the "No Snitching" rule, makes it more scary, and me as a parent, more protective. When did that start anyway?

Also, I do feel that society, as a whole, has lost respect for our elders and each other. Look at how we speak to each other. Calling women b!tche$ is the norm, and most are cool with it. Television is our biggest indicator of change. They curse on day-time tv and cartoons now. Look at Bam and other MTV reality shows. Everything seems to be more sexual to the point that parents allow their 10 year old daughters to wear "booty tight" jeans, and their sons wear their pants under their butt so their underwear shows. I wonder if they know that style originated in prison to promote homosexuality.

Chicos is right, times have changed whether good or bad!

[muwarrior69]

It was the best of times; it was the worst of times. Ah…Dickens, he summed up this thread to a tee. Life is a path of hills and valleys. One could say I lived a Norman Rockwell childhood through the late 40s and through the 50s with my Mom and Dad; my Aunt, Uncle and two cousins who lived next door and grandparents who lived just a 15 minute walk away.  They all worked, but one of them was always there to nurture me and my two cousins and make us feel safe. It was truly the best of times. In 1957 Sputnik was launched into space. The threat of Nuclear War was very real back then. I can remember the comical adds, even then,  on TV to ‘duck and cover’ if a bomb should hit. We all knew ‘duck and cover’ would not save us. Then in the fall of 1962 our greatest fear was imminent. We were going to war with the Soviet Union if they would not withdraw their missiles from Cuba. Indeed it was the worst of times; and thankfully cooler heads prevailed or our world today would be much different. I remember the 70s, Vietnam and long gas lines, family returning from war, the death of my grandmother and aunt; but I also married the love of my life, moved into our then new house and the birth of our daughter. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times. In the 80s we celebrated the birth of our son and life went on pretty much as life does. At the turn of the millennium we lost my father-in law on Jan, 1 2000 and 12 days later our son died in an auto accident. My mother-in-law suffered from dementia so we cared for her. When my mom died after a long illness we had to take dad in as well. So for six years we were care takers for those who took care of us. Then in 2008 the great recession hit and my wife and I lost our jobs. So, we retired. In 2010 dad died, but two months later we welcomed our new grand daughter, Faith; and in this lousy economy we managed to sell dads house so my daughter and her family could move into their beautiful brand new home. Indeed, these are the best of times.

[warriorchick]

What happened to the pipe smoking evolution? Can't you people stay on thread?

By the way, a question for the female posters--do any of you think that Cary Grant and Gable were studs? There were rumors that Gable was bi-sexual.

I have heard that Clark Gable had dentures, and  his breath was so bad that Vivienne Leigh's swoons of passion in those close-ups for "Gone with the Wind" were actually her trying not to pass out from the smell.

Plus, both of them are smokers, so that's a non-starter for me.  They both knew how to dress though.  I'll take a guy in a tuxedo over a guy in a Speedo any day.

[Hards Alumni]

It was the best of times; it was the worst of times. Ah…Dickens, he summed up this thread to a tee. Life is a path of hills and valleys. One could say I lived a Norman Rockwell childhood through the late 40s and through the 50s with my Mom and Dad; my Aunt, Uncle and two cousins who lived next door and grandparents who lived just a 15 minute walk away.  They all worked, but one of them was always there to nurture me and my two cousins and make us feel safe. It was truly the best of times. In 1957 Sputnik was launched into space. The threat of Nuclear War was very real back then. I can remember the comical adds, even then,  on TV to ‘duck and cover’ if a bomb should hit. We all knew ‘duck and cover’ would not save us. Then in the fall of 1962 our greatest fear was imminent. We were going to war with the Soviet Union if they would not withdraw their missiles from Cuba. Indeed it was the worst of times; and thankfully cooler heads prevailed or our world today would be much different. I remember the 70s, Vietnam and long gas lines, family returning from war, the death of my grandmother and aunt; but I also married the love of my life, moved into our then new house and the birth of our daughter. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times. In the 80s we celebrated the birth of our son and life went on pretty much as life does. At the turn of the millennium we lost my father-in law on Jan, 1 2000 and 12 days later our son died in an auto accident. My mother-in-law suffered from dementia so we cared for her. When my mom died after a long illness we had to take dad in as well. So for six years we were care takers for those who took care of us. Then in 2008 the great recession hit and my wife and I lost our jobs. So, we retired. In 2010 dad died, but two months later we welcomed our new grand daughter, Faith; and in this lousy economy we managed to sell dads house so my daughter and her family could move into their beautiful brand new home. Indeed, these are the best of times.

Thank you for bringing a lot of perspective to this thread.  People who complain about the state of the country only seem to remember the good things from the 'good old days', while failing to acknowledge the ills of society at the time.  The converse can be said about many views of today.

If you're honestly afraid to let your kids out after dark then you have deep personal problems and you believe what you want to.  The streets of today are no more dangerous than the streets of your childhoods.  The only thing that has changed is the fear that has grown inside of people.  That is what has really changed.  Everyone is afraid of their children's face ending up on the news as the next kid who got grabbed... or wonder what is becoming of this world.  Remember, this is the world you are passing on to your children.  You teach them to fear walking down the street because of something that MIGHT happen.  When we insulate ourselves from our neighbors that is when the world gets more and more lonely.

To those of you who are openly nostalgic about the past, ask yourself how many of your neighbors you know.  How many things have you done to fix the problem?  If you're worried about sagging jeans on kids butts, and booty shorts on little girls, remember what your parents said about your clothes... and your music... and your entertainment.

Personally, I'm sick of all the alarmist behavior these days.  Every damn thing is a crisis, and its exhausting.

[Lennys Tap]

Thank you for bringing a lot of perspective to this thread.  People who complain about the state of the country only seem to remember the good things from the 'good old days', while failing to acknowledge the ills of society at the time.  The converse can be said about many views of today.

If you're honestly afraid to let your kids out after dark then you have deep personal problems and you believe what you want to.  The streets of today are no more dangerous than the streets of your childhoods.  The only thing that has changed is the fear that has grown inside of people.  That is what has really changed.  Everyone is afraid of their children's face ending up on the news as the next kid who got grabbed... or wonder what is becoming of this world.  Remember, this is the world you are passing on to your children.  You teach them to fear walking down the street because of something that MIGHT happen.  When we insulate ourselves from our neighbors that is when the world gets more and more lonely.

To those of you who are openly nostalgic about the past, ask yourself how many of your neighbors you know.  How many things have you done to fix the problem?  If you're worried about sagging jeans on kids butts, and booty shorts on little girls, remember what your parents said about your clothes... and your music... and your entertainment.

Personally, I'm sick of all the alarmist behavior these days.  Every damn thing is a crisis, and its exhausting.

Very well said.

[Jay Bee]

Personally, I'm sick of all the alarmist behavior these days.  Every damn thing is a crisis, and its exhausting.

Have the Chinese always owned us?

PS - I wonder if chicos is talking about the big 1970 Peru earthquake.. I think there was another one that decade that claimed a few hundred lives... but there was an alarming amount of fatalities in '70. I think he would have been 1 year old, at most.. amazing memory!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Personally, I'm sick of all the alarmist behavior these days.  Every damn thing is a crisis, and its exhausting.

Someone famously said "never want a serious crisis go to waste" (note I didn't say "good crisis").  That's why so many things are a crisis today.  If only I could remember who said that.   

[Hards Alumni]

Have the Chinese always owned us?

PS - I wonder if chicos is talking about the big 1970 Peru earthquake.. I think there was another one that decade that claimed a few hundred lives... but there was an alarming amount of fatalities in '70. I think he would have been 1 year old, at most.. amazing memory!

The Chinese own a small fraction of the US debt.  I don't see how you can say they own us.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Have the Chinese always owned us?

PS - I wonder if chicos is talking about the big 1970 Peru earthquake.. I think there was another one that decade that claimed a few hundred lives... but there was an alarming amount of fatalities in '70. I think he would have been 1 year old, at most.. amazing memory!

Nope, I was talking about the one in '74...we missed the one in '70.   The one in '74 I was outside in the backyard playing with my sister and my mom was inside and ultimately trapped until we could get her and a family friend out.  It was a 7.2 and killed a few hundred if I recall and injured over a 1000.  Damaged our house pretty badly.  Like I said, I will never forget it.  I was plenty old enough to remember and you don't forget events that traumatic.

I've been in several quakes approaching that magnitude, but never that close to the epicenter.  The Landers quake a few years ago was a 7.3 but we were very far away from it as the epicenter was in the middle of the desert. 

Going through the Lima quake at a 7.2 in 1950's infrastructure in a 3rd world country will burn a memory deep.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you're honestly afraid to let your kids out after dark then you have deep personal problems and you believe what you want to.  The streets of today are no more dangerous than the streets of your childhoods.  The only thing that has changed is the fear that has grown inside of people.  That is what has really changed.  Everyone is afraid of their children's face ending up on the news as the next kid who got grabbed... or wonder what is becoming of this world.  Remember, this is the world you are passing on to your children.  You teach them to fear walking down the street because of something that MIGHT happen.  When we insulate ourselves from our neighbors that is when the world gets more and more lonely.

To those of you who are openly nostalgic about the past, ask yourself how many of your neighbors you know.  How many things have you done to fix the problem?  If you're worried about sagging jeans on kids butts, and booty shorts on little girls, remember what your parents said about your clothes... and your music... and your entertainment.

I don't remember my parents having to tell me to pull my pants up because the crack of my ass was showing.

I don't remember my parents having to tell me I shouldn't be listening to certain music because the music back then wasn't saying it was cool to kill cops, start riots, rape girls, etc.

Deep personal problems for not letting your kids out late at night today, vs 30, 40, 50 years ago?  Really?  The streets of today actually ARE more dangerous than those of MY CHILDHOOD.  Maybe they aren't as dangerous as YOUR CHILDHOOD or where YOU LIVE, but that's why it comes back to personal experiences and what you use as a benchmark.  They most CERTAINLY are more dangerous than those of our parents and grandparents.