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Author Topic: Definitive guide to the goold old days  (Read 57545 times)

real chili 83

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Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2013, 09:43:54 PM »
Oh, and....in before the lock.  ;)

GGGG

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Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2013, 09:47:43 PM »
Good grief.  So then we should burn all the history books out there written by non minorities, non gays and non poor as well, because they can't possibly be scholarly or be able to share life's experiences.

Wow.  Now your "elders, parents and colleagues" are scholarly historians.  Who knew??


These people were women, in an age where some would say women were not allowed the freedoms they are today.  Do their opinions count?  My mother in law, who died a few years ago, educated as a nurse...smart lady.  Her opinions on society as a woman don't count?  

Please.  Their life experiences are not wholly encompassing just as no one else's is either.  God forbid they should have an opinion that life and society was better, safer (the data backs it up) only to be questioned for it by someone here that DIDN'T LIVE during that era but has the temerity to blast others here for also not living in that era.  WOW...talk about irony.

Ah there we go.  You finally said it..."opinion."  Yet you spent posts writing it off as fact.

The fact is that your "elders, parents and colleagues" lived in only a slice of what American society was in the 50s, and you didn't seem to want to acknowledge that.  

ChicosBailBonds

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Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2013, 09:49:55 PM »
So...how about the Celtics new coach?

I hope he does well.  The NBA game is a lot different than the college game.  Some great interviews today on just how different they are that I listened to in the car while taking my son up to camp.  Interviewed Pitino, Jay Wright, Reggie Theus, etc....much different game, different terminology, different plays and different rules.  Theus was saying it was a huge adjustment for him...Pitino said the same.

forgetful

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Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »
Wtf happened in here?

Best post award.

Pakuni

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Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2013, 11:07:10 PM »
No, don't watch Leave it to Beaver.

In one part of your paragraph you say violent crime is lower than in the 1950's,

Ummm ....  where exactly did I say that? You spend an awful lot of time here disproving a point I never made.

Jay Bee

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2013, 11:46:12 PM »
The 1% bickering is so entertaining!

I will say this: It seems some of you would poo-poo the idea that the breakdown of the "traditional..." "normal family" is not a big deal at all. No real consequences whatsoever.

I'd say you're nuts.

Growing up there was plenty of crime; yes, where I lived the murder rates have been far higher than they are currently. But I'll tell you what.. walking around the lake, a shopping mall, down the block in your own neighborhood.. the lack of respect and 'neighborly' folks is astounding. It's a very different world.

There will always be "bad" or evil people committing awful crimes. But this nation is creating many lazy jerks with next to nothing to offer to society.

peace in the middle east yo
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

keefe

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2013, 12:19:36 AM »
I will say this: It seems some of you would poo-poo the idea that the breakdown of the "traditional..." "normal family" is not a big deal at all. No real consequences whatsoever.

I'd say you're nuts.


You missed a stage. We went from the traditional muti-generational household in 1945 to the Nuclear Family of the 1950's to the Single Mother Household of the 1980's.


Death on call

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2013, 01:01:48 AM »
Wow.  Now your "elders, parents and colleagues" are scholarly historians.  Who knew??


Ah there we go.  You finally said it..."opinion."  Yet you spent posts writing it off as fact.

The fact is that your "elders, parents and colleagues" lived in only a slice of what American society was in the 50s, and you didn't seem to want to acknowledge that.  

Not what I said Sultan....never called them historians.  I said it was my opinion earlier...also said it wasn't perfect or the ultimate, just better than what we have in my opinion (said that earlier).....you've had trouble reading the last few days in these threads (just like when you said no one said anything about age limitations when clearly someone had).  It's the Summer, it's ok to be lazy in the summer I suppose.  

IMO = IN MY OPINION...said it LONG ago.  Please, read.  Thanks.

"But yes, one can always find examples on both sides...there were certainly scandals, point shaving and such.  No one ever said it was perfect.  The question is whether it was better.  In many areas, yes.  In some areas, no.  IMO."
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:06:37 AM by ChicosBailBonds »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2013, 01:04:42 AM »
Ummm ....  where exactly did I say that? You spend an awful lot of time here disproving a point I never made.


"Fact is, you're much, much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any time in the last 40 years."

This is factually incorrect.  You are claiming violent crime is lower today than 40 years ago and using homicide numbers to back it up.  The FBI says this is false...that's what I was pointing out.  Violent crime was less in the 1950's and 1960's than today, unlike what you said.  Violent crime is defined as homicide, rape, burglary, aggravated assault....not just homicide.  Non violent crime ALSO worse now than 40 years ago.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:12:19 AM by ChicosBailBonds »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2013, 01:10:24 AM »
The 1% bickering is so entertaining!

I will say this: It seems some of you would poo-poo the idea that the breakdown of the "traditional..." "normal family" is not a big deal at all. No real consequences whatsoever.

I'd say you're nuts.

Growing up there was plenty of crime; yes, where I lived the murder rates have been far higher than they are currently. But I'll tell you what.. walking around the lake, a shopping mall, down the block in your own neighborhood.. the lack of respect and 'neighborly' folks is astounding. It's a very different world.

There will always be "bad" or evil people committing awful crimes. But this nation is creating many lazy jerks with next to nothing to offer to society.

peace in the middle east yo

Of course there are consequences, we've seen it for the last few decades and it will continue to be a problem in the form of resources (having to fund people to pay them to stay out of trouble), cyclical behaviors (how many kids growing up in that scenario repeat the actions of their "parents"), etc.  No brainer and the data is there in this area as well.  The amount of public treasure we now pay out in these areas is astronomical. 

And we reward the behavior.  Why?  Some will tell you off the record it is to keep folks from rioting and causing civil unrest, making crime worse, etc.  So those doing it right, your reward is to pay the folks doing it wrong so they don't make society worse.  What a deal.  Progressive.

keefe

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2013, 04:27:13 AM »
Ah, those halcyon days of the Traditional Family...you can smell the gentility, civility, decorum, and propriety of our suburban sodbuster forebearers...




















Death on call

tower912

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 06:26:23 AM »
Or the irony that I have not spent a day of my life working for Dish Network, but apparently communicating with people that lived during that time (and the data to back up what they are saying) should be ignored...now that's irony.

Dish, Direct TV, ATT, Xfinity.....McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's....   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

GGGG

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 07:57:25 AM »
Not what I said Sultan....never called them historians.  I said it was my opinion earlier...also said it wasn't perfect or the ultimate, just better than what we have in my opinion (said that earlier).....you've had trouble reading the last few days in these threads (just like when you said no one said anything about age limitations when clearly someone had).  It's the Summer, it's ok to be lazy in the summer I suppose.  

IMO = IN MY OPINION...said it LONG ago.  Please, read.  Thanks.

"But yes, one can always find examples on both sides...there were certainly scandals, point shaving and such.  No one ever said it was perfect.  The question is whether it was better.  In many areas, yes.  In some areas, no.  IMO."

That wasn't in the thread of posts between the two of us....unless you went back and edited back in.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 07:59:23 AM by Terror Skink »

GGGG

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 07:59:05 AM »
The 1% bickering is so entertaining!

I will say this: It seems some of you would poo-poo the idea that the breakdown of the "traditional..." "normal family" is not a big deal at all. No real consequences whatsoever.

I'd say you're nuts.


I agree with you completely.  By and large I think the more "successful" children come from a household with two parents who love one another.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 08:51:55 AM »
I always love the Keefe photo montages.

Nothing like mom smoking with the family while they crowd around TV watching Howdy Doody.

Pakuni

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 09:16:37 AM »
"Fact is, you're much, much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any time in the last 40 years."

This is factually incorrect.  You are claiming violent crime is lower today than 40 years ago and using homicide numbers to back it up.  The FBI says this is false...that's what I was pointing out.  Violent crime was less in the 1950's and 1960's than today, unlike what you said.  Violent crime is defined as homicide, rape, burglary, aggravated assault....not just homicide.  Non violent crime ALSO worse now than 40 years ago.

No, Chico's, it's not factually incorrect.
The violent crime rate in 2011 was 386.3 per 100,000.
That's the lowest it's been since 1970, when it was 363.5. That, my exceptional math skills tell me, was 40+ years ago.
Thus, my statement is completely accurate.
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StateCrime.cfm

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Definitive guide to the good old days
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2013, 10:15:31 AM »
#1 Everybody always things "stuff" was better "before". Cars, music, food, people, girls, MU's campus, bars, civility, smoking, etc.

#2 Sometimes people are right, sometimes they are wrong about "stuff" and "before".


GGGG

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2013, 10:45:45 AM »
I always love the Keefe photo montages.

Nothing like mom smoking with the family while they crowd around TV watching Howdy Doody.


And the dad is wearing a suit in every picture.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2013, 10:49:35 AM »

And the dad is wearing a suit in every picture.

Next, dad will take the tie and jacket off and go and mow the lawn.

tower912

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2013, 11:01:45 AM »
In shorts and black socks, while smoking a pipe. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2013, 11:40:45 AM »
We are all a product of our environments.  Some have lived in areas of immense poverty or immense wealth....some have experienced both.  Others have seen gradual changes for the better or the worse.  Ultimately, as stated almost from the beginning, these experiences are personal and form one's opinion.

My mom originally from the Detroit area, but spent most of her child in Ohio while her step dad continued to live in Detroit).  Now, imagine a woman that was originally from Detroit in the 1940's and 1950's, when the city was booming...her dad continuing to work there into the 1960's to what Detroit became.  She's going to have a benchmark viewpoint and say Detroit is a lot worse than what it was.  You can disagree with her, you can make fun of her, say she isn't a historian, bring in other stuff that has no bearing whatsoever, but that is her experience. She is not wrong to have that opinion based on her experience.

We can look at the experience my wife and I have had in California.  One of many reasons why middle class Californians have left in droves to Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado in the last 15 years....it's hard to even recognize California anymore.  What once was a low tax, stellar education (U of Cal system), booming economy, conservative state has become highest tax state in the land, educational abyss, illegal immigration fiasco, and one of the worst states for business.   What was once the beacon of all states, a place that was a model has become a butt of jokes and an example of massive public policy failure.  Those are our experiences and our opinions are shaped by our experiences.  Others may view it entirely different...some grab on to the social changes here in the state as reasons to highlight it as the most wonderful place in the world.  To each their own.

At the end of the day, we will all be by products of our experiences. Some may think things are better, others may not.  In some ways they are and in others they are not..that is my opinion. Opinions are opinions....and then there is the data (which has it's own issues with interpretations, etc).  To each their own...I'm going with the folks that I engage with that are friends, family, colleagues, etc that feel we have lost our way.  I'm also going on my own experiences living in this state, in particular, and the erosion that we have seen.  It's heartbreaking in many ways.

willie warrior

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2013, 11:43:30 AM »
And thus we shouldn't talk to our elders, our parents, our colleagues who did live through them and talk of a better society, less violent society, more respectful society because we didn't live through it.  Interesting.
never mind trying to rationalize with Skink. There is none. His point is that the culture is no worse than in the past, drawing in a false proposition about racism in the past. Guess what? There is more racism now, except it is reverse racism. He has not looked around and observed how the cesspool has grown--no morality, no honesty, lying is the rule of the day, and now we are seeing that legality is a thing of the past in many instances. But hey, we can excuse it because "its always been that way" (we just did not realize it)
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

GGGG

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2013, 11:51:16 AM »
I'm not doubting your friends and families experiences, and those undoubtedly shape their opinions.  But when you use those opinions to declare the 1950s and early 60s "The Golden Age of America," without acknowledging that that era certainly wasn't "Golden" to vast swaths of American society, it really is a poor declaration.

And then you derisively say that my bringing up racism was like "Godwin's Law," when it was something that did affect a huge portion of our society, well what am I supposed to think?

The best you can say is that it might have been "The Golden Age" for white, middle-class America.  But I know a number of white, middle-class Americans from that era that would even disagree with that statement.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2013, 01:39:17 PM »
The good old days are, by definition, YOUR good old days. They WERE special, idyllic, etc., especially through the softening lens of retrospection. Happy and well adjusted people should look back on them fondly. But - and it's a very big but - regardless of how one feels about society's ills there is NO DOUBT that the world in which my children will raise their children is a much more tolerant, fair and accepting world than the one I was raised in. Feel free to pick things to be (sometimes fairly) bitter about, but these are the best of days.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Definitive guide to the goold old days
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2013, 02:32:33 PM »
That wasn't in the thread of posts between the two of us....unless you went back and edited back in.



I didn't edit anything....this is a message board, multiple conversations going on at one time.  I said in my opinion in this thread.