Definitive guide to the goold old days

[willie warrior]

You don't think Pitino has a great reputation?  You're nuts.

You may not like him, but recruits do...former players do...media does...other coaches seem to...

Actually, this sentiment fits right in with the culture of today. No morality, anything goes, contracts do not mean anything, and the ends justify the means.

[GGGG]

Actually, this sentiment fits right in with the culture of today. No morality, anything goes, contracts do not mean anything, and the ends justify the means.

You are pretty naive if you think the "culture of today" is substantively different than previously.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are pretty naive if you think the "culture of today" is substantively different than previously.

Depends how far back you go.  The culture of the 1950's is radically different than today.

[GGGG]

Depends how far back you go.  The culture of the 1950's is radically different than today.

If different ways sure.  I mean Adolph Rupp may not have slept around on his wife (and I have no idea if that is actually the case), but he was explicit racist and a society where a good number of people didn't have a problem with that.

[Pakuni]

Depends how far back you go.  The culture of the 1950's is radically different than today.

Sports figures were paragons of virtue in the 1950s. Like Mickey Mantle, for example.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If different ways sure.  I mean Adolph Rupp may not have slept around on his wife (and I have no idea if that is actually the case), but he was explicit racist and a society where a good number of people didn't have a problem with that.

It's like Godwin's law, whenever someone mentions the 1950's, or times of the past the inevitable racism examples come out.  That, or women's liberation.  When people mention those times, it doesn't mean they are endorsing racism or anything of that nature, but that's where people go with this stuff.  The 1950's weren't perfect, nor is anyone saying it was.  A different time to be sure, however.

I was referencing more in terms of society in general.  Rule of law.  Contracts followed.  Crime.  Neighborly.  Sense of honor.  Divorce rates, single mother explosion, poverty, etc.  These are the things I hear often when talking to people that were alive during that era.  The Golden Age of America after WWII, the 1950's and early 1960's.  GDP #1 per capita in the 1950's...today it is #13.  Land of opportunity.  70% of American adults were married...today it is 48%.  Less religious, less respectful.  13 million manufacturing jobs in the 1950's...in 2012 12 million. 

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sports figures were paragons of virtue in the 1950s. Like Mickey Mantle, for example.

One can find examples of anything you want.  I'm going off of what the oral and written histories say, what family members say, what colleagues that lived during that time period say....listening to Sandy Koufax, for example, talk about the times.   Maybe in the 1950's there were a bunch of murders going around involving athletes, or athletes not abiding by contracts, or perhaps athletes taking PEDs and steroids (yes, I'm aware they would take stimulants in the 1960's to help stay awake).

But yes, one can always find examples on both sides...there were certainly scandals, point shaving and such.  No one ever said it was perfect.  The question is whether it was better.  In many areas, yes.  In some areas, no.  IMO.

[tower912]

It's like Godwin's law, whenever someone mentions the 1950's, or times of the past the inevitable racism examples come out.  That, or women's liberation.  When people mention those times, it doesn't mean they are endorsing racism or anything of that nature, but that's where people go with this stuff.  The 1950's weren't perfect, nor is anyone saying it was.  A different time to be sure, however.

I was referencing more in terms of society in general.  Rule of law.  Contracts followed.  Crime.  Neighborly.  Sense of honor.  Divorce rates, single mother explosion, poverty, etc.  These are the things I hear often when talking to people that were alive during that era.  The Golden Age of America after WWII, the 1950's and early 1960's.  GDP #1 per capita in the 1950's...today it is #13.  Land of opportunity.  70% of American adults were married...today it is 48%.  Less religious, less respectful.  13 million manufacturing jobs in the 1950's...in 2012 12 million. 

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

91% tax bracket, corporate loyalty, warnings against the military industrial complex, tariffs on imported goods, lots of unions.     Love it.   Bring it back.   

[Galway Eagle]

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

Did you like grow up in a perfect subdivision or just watch sandlot too much? Cause there were horrendous horrendous places back then too (generally immigrant neighborhoods) and the mob had a much much larger presence in those days. 

[Pakuni]

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

Someone's been watching too many episodes of 'Leave it to Beaver'. In reality, you aren't much less safe today than in the 1950s. Fact is, you're much, much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any time in the last 40 years.
We only think the world is a more dangerous place because we've got nimrods like Nancy Grace and Geraldo Rivera (and cable news in general) screaming at us from our TVs about how scary the world is.
The world has always been scary, but there are few (if any) times in human history it's been less scary.

National homicide rate:
1950 = 4.6 per 100,000
1960 = 5.1 per 100,000
1970 = 7.9 per 100,000
1980 = 10.2 per 100,000
1990 = 9.4 per 100,000
2011 = 4.7 per 100,000

[MarquetteDano]

The world has always been scary, but there are few (if any) times in human history it's been less scary.

National homicide rate:
1950 = 4.6 per 100,000
1960 = 5.1 per 100,000
1970 = 7.9 per 100,000
1980 = 10.2 per 100,000
1990 = 9.4 per 100,000
2011 = 4.7 per 100,000

Here here!  I live in Chicago (the city) and I am always amazed about people going on and on about the crime.  Where were these people when I lived here in the 70's and 80's when things were really bad?

And then fear-ists say that homicides are down because of the medical field (presumably saving potential deaths).  Nearly every track-able crime is down in Chicago, per capita, since the 70/80's, but they just refuse to believe it.

This is an example where the statistics are actually the truth and other forms (anecdotal, media, etc.) are actually giving false impressions.

[tower912]

Chico, you need to sit down and have your parents and grandparents tell you stories about life in the 50's and 60's.   You are longing for an ideal that never existed.  I won't bore you with my dad's stories, except to say that in today's world, he would be labeled a problem for his behavior as a youth and that my parents lied to me for 25 years (or up until their divorce) about what year they got married, in order to protect me from the fact that I arrived 7 months after the nuptials.   Which were thrown together in a month.  When mom was still 20.   

[tower912]

Completely sidestepping the irony of a former soccer player, who has made his career with Dish Network, sitting either in his air-conditioned home or out somewhere on his really cool laptop/PDA/I-something lamenting on an internet message board about how good the old days were.

[GGGG]

It's like Godwin's law, whenever someone mentions the 1950's, or times of the past the inevitable racism examples come out.  That, or women's liberation.  When people mention those times, it doesn't mean they are endorsing racism or anything of that nature, but that's where people go with this stuff.  The 1950's weren't perfect, nor is anyone saying it was.  A different time to be sure, however.

I was referencing more in terms of society in general.  Rule of law.  Contracts followed.  Crime.  Neighborly.  Sense of honor.  Divorce rates, single mother explosion, poverty, etc.  These are the things I hear often when talking to people that were alive during that era.  The Golden Age of America after WWII, the 1950's and early 1960's.  GDP #1 per capita in the 1950's...today it is #13.  Land of opportunity.  70% of American adults were married...today it is 48%.  Less religious, less respectful.  13 million manufacturing jobs in the 1950's...in 2012 12 million. 

Able to leave your cars and front door unlocked without thinking twice about it.  Kids out playing until 10 at night without so much as even a nanosecond of thought that something evil or sinister could happen.

Right...because overt, legalized racism was just a little thing that people always make too big a deal over.

[Skatastrophy]

Wtf happened in here?

[keefe]

Someone's been watching too many episodes of 'Leave it to Beaver'. In reality, you aren't much less safe today than in the 1950s. Fact is, you're much, much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any time in the last 40 years.
We only think the world is a more dangerous place because we've got nimrods like Nancy Grace and Geraldo Rivera (and cable news in general) screaming at us from our TVs about how scary the world is.
The world has always been scary, but there are few (if any) times in human history it's been less scary.

National homicide rate:
1950 = 4.6 per 100,000
1960 = 5.1 per 100,000
1970 = 7.9 per 100,000
1980 = 10.2 per 100,000
1990 = 9.4 per 100,000
2011 = 4.7 per 100,000

Many believe that the 1950's was seminal in determining the America of this century. One of the best treatises on the cultural, economic, and political impact of that decade on contemporary America is David Halberstam's "The Fifties."

Halberstam articulates a compelling case for the effect of the Fifties on who and what we are as a society today. Much of how the world views us is due to the cultural, financial, and political imperialism born during the Eisenhower era. I highly recommend this book (as I do anything authored by Halberstam; his observation and commentary are stunning for their insight.)

[GGGG]

Completely sidestepping the irony of a former soccer player, who has made his career with Dish Network, sitting either in his air-conditioned home or out somewhere on his really cool laptop/PDA/I-something lamenting on an internet message board about how good the old days were.

I mean really....good old days that he never actually lived through.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Someone's been watching too many episodes of 'Leave it to Beaver'. In reality, you aren't much less safe today than in the 1950s. Fact is, you're much, much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any time in the last 40 years.
We only think the world is a more dangerous place because we've got nimrods like Nancy Grace and Geraldo Rivera (and cable news in general) screaming at us from our TVs about how scary the world is.
The world has always been scary, but there are few (if any) times in human history it's been less scary.

National homicide rate:
1950 = 4.6 per 100,000
1960 = 5.1 per 100,000
1970 = 7.9 per 100,000
1980 = 10.2 per 100,000
1990 = 9.4 per 100,000
2011 = 4.7 per 100,000

No, don't watch Leave it to Beaver.

In one part of your paragraph you say violent crime is lower than in the 1950's, then you say last 40 years, but you post homicide rates, which are not in totality what is used for violent crime.  You are conveniently parsing one part of violent crime (murder) to suggest violent crime is down.  It's not down since the 1950's and 1960's, far from it.

My data is from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and the FBI and they don't claim what you claim....the official US gov't holders of crime statistics.  

The violent crime rate in 1960 was 160.9 (per 100,000 citizens.  In 2012 it was 386.3.  I fail to see how that is LOWER.  

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=daaSearch/Crime/State/StateCrime.cfm

In fact, the last time it was below 200 was 1964...it hasn't sniffed even below 375 since 1970.

That's just violent crime, which is defined by Murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault by the FBI.   So if you want to define homicide as violent crime as if that is the only definition, you would be wrong and I suggest you use what the FBI uses.

But for giggles, let's just look at just the murder rate in the 1950's....2011 it is 4.7 per 100,000.  In 1950, it was 4.6.  In 1951, it was 4.4, 1952 it was 4.6, 1953 it was 4.5, 1954 it was 4.2, 1955 it was 4.1, 1956 it was 4.1, 1957 it was 4.0

Now let's look at property crime rates, non violent crime.

1960...1,726.3 per 100,000
2011...2,908.7 per 100,000

Again, not safer. 1950's, even better numbers than 1960's.

Sorry, you're just flat wrong on this one.  The data is there.  Have at it, but you're just flat wrong....you are one of the best posters here Pakuni, but on this one you don't have the data to back it up....humorous  Leave it to Beaver comment or not.  The data is the data.

I don't appreciate the folks here crapping on me for "not living in that era", but then ignoring those that did and who said it was better and the data proves it 100%.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Completely sidestepping the irony of a former soccer player, who has made his career with Dish Network, sitting either in his air-conditioned home or out somewhere on his really cool laptop/PDA/I-something lamenting on an internet message board about how good the old days were.

Or the irony that I have not spent a day of my life working for Dish Network, but apparently communicating with people that lived during that time (and the data to back up what they are saying) should be ignored...now that's irony.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I mean really....good old days that he never actually lived through.

And thus we shouldn't talk to our elders, our parents, our colleagues who did live through them and talk of a better society, less violent society, more respectful society because we didn't live through it.  Interesting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did you like grow up in a perfect subdivision or just watch sandlot too much? Cause there were horrendous horrendous places back then too (generally immigrant neighborhoods) and the mob had a much much larger presence in those days.  

I actually lived in the 3rd world in Peru and Panama for part of my childhood...I saw some of the poorest areas in the world.  On the flip side, I also spent a good chunk in Thousand Oaks, CA which for many years was voted the safest city of its size in the United States.  I've seen both sides.  

In 1989, my sister's boyfriend was murdered in Tucson, AZ where she was a student at U of A. He got into drugs, didn't pay the right people and he was shot in the back of the head.  So yes, I've seen all sides of it.

I believe I clearly said that it wasn't perfect back then, no time era is.  I also said, clearly, that people that are FROM that era that I speak with uniformly say it was better back then in terms of society in general.  More respect, deeper faith in God, people were married, drug abuse almost unheard of, single mothers almost unheard of, etc, etc.  Far from perfect, but better.  That is a distinction.  No one is saying perfection, far from it.  What we have today, my God have mercy on our souls.

[GGGG]

And thus we shouldn't talk to our elders, our parents, our colleagues who did live through them and talk of a better society, less violent society, more respectful society because we didn't live through it.  Interesting.

Yeah...I'm sure they had a good grasp on how society at large was back then.  My guess is that none of your "elders, parents or colleagues" were poor, minorities or homosexual.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So...how about the Celtics new coach?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah...I'm sure they had a good grasp on how society at large was back then.  My guess is that none of your "elders, parents or colleagues" were poor, minorities or homosexual.  

Good grief.  So then we should burn all the history books out there written by non minorities, non gays and non poor as well, because they can't possibly be scholarly or be able to share life's experiences.

These people were women, in an age where some would say women were not allowed the freedoms they are today.  Do their opinions count?  My mother in law, who died a few years ago, educated as a nurse...smart lady.  Her opinions on society as a woman don't count? 

Please.  Their life experiences are not wholly encompassing just as no one else's is either.  God forbid they should have an opinion that life and society was better, safer (the data backs it up) only to be questioned for it by someone here that DIDN'T LIVE during that era but has the temerity to blast others here for also not living in that era.  WOW...talk about irony.

[real chili 83]

Wow, THAT was a hijacked thread.