Heat/Spurs Game 6

[forgetful]

Appreciate your conviction to your argument, but the bolded is an absolutely ludicrous statement. Lebron is 1A to Jordan...and possibly #1.  Lebron has averaged 31.5 in elimination games, just as Jordan did.  Lebron has been clutch.  Lebron flat out willed his team to the game 6 win.  He was a man among boys on that court.  The rejection of Duncan was epic.  6'8" and 265, that can handle ball and beat virtually anyone off the dribble, defend all 5 positions, sees the floor well.  Jordan would have absolutely had his hands full defending Lebron.  I really can't see MJ's post up game being effective against Lebron - which became Jordan's bread and butter his last 7 years roughly.  Lebron MUCH stronger than Jordan.

But to say he isn't Top 20, is so over the top, still can't believe I read that!!

Ners, you are right (but lebron has a long way to go to be 1A).  My thought was that right now Lebron is in the next tier of great stars (and as he is young will likely move up).  I thought that next tier is larger than it actually is.  My problem is that Lebron has been the clearly best in the league really only the last two years.  Before that a healthy Wade gave him a run for his money and a healthy Kobe was clearly his superior.  Looking back at it all I would still break it into two tiers, with Lebron currently in tier two, but likely if he can continue as he has the last two years move into tier 1 no problem.

Tier 1 in no particular order:
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Jabbar
Robertson

Tier 2 in no particular order:
Shaq
Kobe
James
Duncan
West
Elgin Baylor

If wade had been able to stay healthy I think he would have been in tier 2.  The question for Lebron is if he can stay at the top of the league or if some of the up-and-coming players (Durant) surpass him.  Health is the main issue.

As for a 6-8 260 lb guy that can play all positions.  I'll take Magic every day of the week.

[jmayer1]

I'm with Ners on this one.  Lebron is only 28 years old and has three MVPs, that alone puts him in top 10, maybe top 5.  The basketball skills of a guy 6ft 8, 260lbs is just amazing. 

I believe he goes crazy tonight and his legacy continues.

He actually has 4 MVPs. If his career ended today, he'd be top 20 without a sliver of doubt and probably top 10. Virtually no way he doesn't crack the top 5, and most likely enters into the discussion of #2 (along with Wilt), barring a catastrophic injury.

[jesmu84]

Conversation with some friends the other day...

Is there a way to separate Lebron the basketball player from Lebron the athlete? Is he the best (or one of) basketball player ever because of his basketball ability or because he won the genetic lottery? I think Lebron absolutely is a skilled basketball player. But how much of his success is simply the genetic lottery? Contrast that to other greats with lesser athleticism. I know it's merely nit-picking, but it's an interesting conversation, IMO.

The same conversation could be had over many other players from the past as well.

[jesmu84]

He actually has 4 MVPs.

I hate the MVP argument simply because players in the past were given less MVPs than the deserved simply because people got tired of voting for the same guy. Karl Malone? Please...

[jmayer1]

I hate the MVP argument simply because players in the past were given less MVPs than the deserved simply because people got tired of voting for the same guy. Karl Malone? Please...

I agree, kind of like D Rose winning a couple years ago, I was just correcting him.

[forgetful]

Athleticism gets you the shot, but Skill puts it in the basket. Skill is not God-given. Skill is only obtained through hard work, repetition, and overcoming mistakes. That's why he's considered the best in the world. Those with great talent that didn't work as hard like Tracy McGrady, find themselves on a championship contending team, at the  end of the bench, not contributing at all. Your statement about Lebron is very bad.

Everyone in the NBA has the skills.  You don't get there without it.  Guys like Novak can go into a gym and make 99 out of 100 from 3.  Guys like Paul have the ball on a string.

Lebron's uniqueness (like Magic) is that he has unique size, the leaping ability of Jordan...these are genetic abnormalities.  Is he still extremely skilled, absolutely, but it is his genetics that put him in discussion with the greatest. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny

I'm curious, if broadcaster and former coach on the radio broadcast said it was a blocking foul by Green does that count?  Or is it just Van Gundy?  By the way, my guy I'm talking about is a Hall of Famer in Hubie Brown.   

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny

I'm curious, if broadcaster and former coach on the radio broadcast said it was a blocking foul by Green does that count?  Or is it just Van Gundy?  By the way, my guy I'm talking about is a Hall of Famer in Hubie Brown.   

Link?

[Jay Bee]

I4's media guide is about to get bigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[4everwarriors]

I4's media guide is about to get bigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm figurin' Doris will be interviewin' T-Cubed next on the floor.

[MUSF]

I4's media guide is about to get bigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about congrats to our greatest player of all time?

Nope, let's make it something negative!

[MU82]

Conversation with some friends the other day...

Is there a way to separate Lebron the basketball player from Lebron the athlete? Is he the best (or one of) basketball player ever because of his basketball ability or because he won the genetic lottery? I think Lebron absolutely is a skilled basketball player. But how much of his success is simply the genetic lottery? Contrast that to other greats with lesser athleticism. I know it's merely nit-picking, but it's an interesting conversation, IMO.

The same conversation could be had over many other players from the past as well.

"Athletes" don't shoot 57% from the floor and 41% from 3-point range in addition to all the incredible things LeBron does. "Basketball players" do that.

If you don't think Jordan and Wilt were "genetically gifted," you apparently didn't watch them much.

[MU82]

Another incredible elimination-game and Game 7 performance from the best player of the post-MJ era.

So many were just hoping they could rip him as a choker but he made shot after shot after shot after shot.

Meanwhile, Duncan, who obviously isn't a choker, nevertheless missed two bunnies down the stretch. Stuff happens.

Oh, and that Wade guy ain't half-bad, either!!

[setyoursightsnorth]

Worst thing that could have happened to the NBA happened tonight.
I'm tired of LeBron. When Jordan won his sixth, he was jumping around, crying, and emotional. LeBron didn't even react.

In game six, he at one point was 9-21, I believe and they were calling him spectacular. He of course finished with a trip dub, but how is shooting 41% spectacular? But congrats to Wade. Last year of the big three. My heart goes out to Timmy though. Something about seeing him cry at the end tore me to pieces. I hope he comes back for a another year or two.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Worst thing that could have happened to the NBA happened tonight.
I'm tired of LeBron. When Jordan won his sixth, he was jumping around, crying, and emotional. LeBron didn't even react.

In game six, he at one point was 9-21, I believe and they were calling him spectacular. He of course finished with a trip dub, but how is shooting 41% spectacular? But congrats to Wade. Last year of the big three. My heart goes out to Timmy though. Something about seeing him cry at the end tore me to pieces. I hope he comes back for a another year or two.

Maybe when Lebron is kicked out of the league for gambling and then allowed to come back and win his 6th he will jump around, crying and all emotional.  We'll have to wait and see.

James had a triple double in game 6, including a few incredibly clutch shots down the stretch to get the team to OT. 

Based on the ratings tonight, I'm guessing the NBA is going to disagree with you that this is a bad thing.  This will be the highest rated NBA game in years I'm going to wager.

[MUSF]

Worst thing that could have happened to the NBA happened tonight.
I'm tired of LeBron. When Jordan won his sixth, he was jumping around, crying, and emotional. LeBron didn't even react.

In game six, he at one point was 9-21, I believe and they were calling him spectacular. He of course finished with a trip dub, but how is shooting 41% spectacular? But congrats to Wade. Last year of the big three. My heart goes out to Timmy though. Something about seeing him cry at the end tore me to pieces. I hope he comes back for a another year or two.

Dude can't win.

It must be exhausting for all of you haters to have to keep finding something to bash the guy about.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Athletes" don't shoot 57% from the floor and 41% from 3-point range in addition to all the incredible things LeBron does. "Basketball players" do that.

If you don't think Jordan and Wilt were "genetically gifted," you apparently didn't watch them much.

Absolutely.  Some have said Wilt was the greatest ATHLETE to ever play. Bench press 500lbs, ran the 440 in under 50 seconds and the 880 in under 2 minutes, vertical of better than 45" for a man 7 feet tall and 275 lbs.  High jumped 6'6" and broad jump of 22 feet.  An athletic freak of nature.

[forgetful]

Maybe when Lebron is kicked out of the league for gambling and then allowed to come back and win his 6th he will jump around, crying and all emotional.  We'll have to wait and see.

James had a triple double in game 6, including a few incredibly clutch shots down the stretch to get the team to OT. 

Based on the ratings tonight, I'm guessing the NBA is going to disagree with you that this is a bad thing.  This will be the highest rated NBA game in years I'm going to wager.

Totally an urban legend.

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

Based on the ratings tonight, I'm guessing the NBA is going to disagree with you that this is a bad thing.  This will be the highest rated NBA game in years I'm going to wager.

All the bars were jam-packed...my buddies settled for Ruby Tuesdays across the street from Hooters and one of the local sports bars...you'd think the Super Bowl was on tonight.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Totally an urban legend.

I was being sarcastic

[forgetful]

I was being sarcastic

My bad.

[jesmu84]

"Athletes" don't shoot 57% from the floor and 41% from 3-point range in addition to all the incredible things LeBron does. "Basketball players" do that.

If you don't think Jordan and Wilt were "genetically gifted," you apparently didn't watch them much.

I said James was skilled. I was asking if he was the "greatest" because of his athleticism, not so much his basketball ability. If you leveled the athletic ability of the "greats", I'm betting that Lebron would fall well down the list from possible "greatest" status.

Also, I never said Jordan and Wilt and others weren't gifted. As a matter of fact, I said that the same conversation could be had about them.

[MUSF]

Totally an urban legend.

Honestly, I think it would make me like Jordan more if it was true.

One thing that blows my mind is how MJ gets a pass for walking away from his teammates, coaches, and fans at the height of his career to chase some arrogant pipe dream. Can you imagine the meltdown if Lebron left the NBA next season to try to make it in the NFL? And he would probably have a legitimate chance of making a pro roster, unlike Jordan.

Sorry for that rant. Let me end by stating again for the record, that I still consider MJ the best ever and love/respect his game.

[jesmu84]

Absolutely.  Some have said Wilt was the greatest ATHLETE to ever play. Bench press 500lbs, ran the 440 in under 50 seconds and the 880 in under 2 minutes, vertical of better than 45" for a man 7 feet tall and 275 lbs.  High jumped 6'6" and broad jump of 22 feet.  An athletic freak of nature.

Again... I never said other greats weren't athletically gifted. I was simply asking if Lebron being the greatest player of all time (to some) was more due to his athletic gifts than his basketball ability. Someone like Lebron (and probably a few others) who dominates basketball could dominate other sports just as easily. But there are also great basketball players who could only play basketball due to their lack of athleticism. If the athletic/genetic field were leveled, does Lebron still belong in the conversation as greastest? Does Wilt? etc.

It was merely a talking point.

[setyoursightsnorth]

Dude can't win.

It must be exhausting for all of you haters to have to keep finding something to bash the guy about.

Nope. Could keep this up for days. I'm sure there is something /someone you don't like either. All part of what makes each of us different. I will never be a fan of his. Sorry..