Heat/Spurs Game 6

[MUSF]

Except for Wade and LeBron, who whine too much, the court is full of some of the hardest working and classiest players you'll find. I could watch Tim Duncan and Ray Allen all day.

How can you possibly criticize Wade and Lebron for whining, then praise Duncan's class in the next sentence? Have you watched the NBA for the last decade? Duncan is one of the biggest whiners in the game. He puts his hands up and makes a ridiculous ”who me?” face after virtually every call against him. He has certainly whined about calls more than Wade in this series.

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1. Have to be drinking massive doses of Heat kool aid to think that was a foul on Green. LeBron shouldered Green, Green got all ball, LeBron lost the ball off himself. Obvious to everyone on the replay including the announcers.

Gionbilli late drive was a foul on Allen, but IMO it came after a travel.

LOL.  He didn't get all ball....all ball means all ball, not part of the arm and hand (replay clearly shows), let alone the hip check by Green and sliding into him while he was driving which is a blocking foul.  Did Lebron push off with his arm...yes...AFTER the hip check by Green and AFTER he slid into Lebron's path to the basket.  Sequence of events matter.


I love the fawning by the announcers, but please.  If that play happens at any other time during the game it is a blocking foul.  


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[Tugg Speedman]

+1000000000000

Amazing game. The officiating was perfect - both teams were allowed to play physical, with no advantage given one way or another...lots of no calls both ways.  Mike Miller basically got punched in the face on a wipe away for Leonard to dunk...no call...and even the retired official Steve Jave said as much....yet in a regular season game....100% of time Miller would get that call.  Ridiculous to even enter officiating into the discussion on what was an amazing basketball game.  These guys are the best in the world absolutely going at each other possession after possession...can't wait for Game 7.

You guys are like the 1980s hockey fans that demanded fighting, and almost destroyed the sport in process.

The end of Q4 and OT (not earlier in the game), when the refs arbitrarily changed the rules, was not fun to watch.  It was a brutal physical low scoring, constant muggings with a ton of missed shots basketball.  In five minutes of overtime, in a league with a 24 second shot clock, the Heat outscored the Spurs 8 to 5 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20130618).  That is your definition of "amazing basketball?"  I could have played last night, I can tackle a guy trying to shoot and make him miss.

[NersEllenson]

You guys are like the 1980s hockey fans that demanded fighting, and almost destroyed the sport in process.

The end of Q4 and OT (not earlier in the game), when the refs arbitrarily changed the rules, was not fun to watch.  It was a brutal physical low scoring, constant muggings with a ton of missed shots basketball.  In five minutes of overtime, in a league with a 24 second shot clock, the Heat outscored the Spurs 8 to 5 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20130618).  That is your definition of "amazing basketball?"  I could have played last night, I can tackle a guy trying to shoot and make him miss.

Dude - it is the 2 best defensive basketball teams in the world, playing an overtime after a physically excruciating 48 minutes...basketball is a physical game..and gets only more physical every level you go up, and now to the top of the pyramid in Game 6 of the NBA Finals - to point to an 8-5 score in a 5 minute overtime is not evidence of a brutal, physical, low scoring, constant muggings ugly basketball game.  Hell there are many MU games where the score is 8-5 at the 16:00 minute time out mark in the 1st half.

Refs are damned if they do, damned if they don't - call tick tack fouls, people complain, let them play people complain.  I'd much rather refs error on swallowing the whistle than watch the truly ugliest of games:  those that lead to a procession of free throw attempts!!  How boring is it to watch the best athletes in the world shoot 40 FT's per game, per team?  Keep the action moving..thats what makes basketball fun..

[martyconlonontherun]

How can you possibly criticize Wade and Lebron for whining, then praise Duncan's class in the next sentence? Have you watched the NBA for the last decade? Duncan is one of the biggest whiners in the game. He puts his hands up and makes a ridiculous ”who me?” face after virtually every call against him. He has certainly whined about calls more than Wade in this series.

Fair. I'm a little odd cause I loved how Sam cassell worked the refs.

The problem with LBJ and Wade was they hurt their team. On back to back plays they stayed backed and whined to the refs about not getting a foul. The first allowed allowed a four on four for a easy drive for Parker. The very next play Wade stayed back and that allowed Neal to be guarded by Bosh for an easy layup. I'm ok, even love, the raw initial emotion of hating a call but it takes it to a new level where you refuse to continue on the game. 

[GGGG]

You guys are like the 1980s hockey fans that demanded fighting, and almost destroyed the sport in process.

The end of Q4 and OT (not earlier in the game), when the refs arbitrarily changed the rules, was not fun to watch.  It was a brutal physical low scoring, constant muggings with a ton of missed shots basketball.  In five minutes of overtime, in a league with a 24 second shot clock, the Heat outscored the Spurs 8 to 5 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20130618).  That is your definition of "amazing basketball?"  I could have played last night, I can tackle a guy trying to shoot and make him miss.

The overtime wasn't all that amazing.  The fourth quarter may have been one of the best quarters in NBA playoff history.

And no one is arbitrarily changing the rules.  This is the way NBA playoff games are called.  Its the way they have been called for decades.  If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[forgetful]

LOL.  He didn't get all ball....all ball means all ball, not part of the arm and hand (replay clearly shows), let alone the hip check by Green and sliding into him while he was driving which is a blocking foul.  Did Lebron push off with his arm...yes...AFTER the hip check by Green and AFTER he slid into Lebron's path to the basket.  Sequence of events matter.


I love the fawning by the announcers, but please.  If that play happens at any other time during the game it is a blocking foul.  


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During any other game, they call a foul on Green 9 times out of 10.  Whether one thinks its a foul or not doesn't matter, lebron gets the benefit of the doubt 90% of the time.

[forgetful]

I find it interesting how everyone faults the Spurs (choking) because of a few bad plays and the Lebron led them back. 

They make 1 FT and everyone is talking about how Lebron choked away a win and a chance at a title. 

He threw the ball into the stands 2 of the last possessions of regulation when they needed a bucked.  He did the same thing earlier in the series. 

Everyone always talks about how exciting it is to watch Lebron, I don't watch a lot of the NBA, but from what I've see he is a very boring player to watch.  40% of the time he dribbles the ball for about 12 seconds before jacking up a shot.  40% of the time he slowly backs a guy down for 3-6 seconds before taking a turnaround.  10% of the time he just stands there and does nothing as he feels like he is not part of the play.  The other 10%, he is part of a nifty pass that he can throw down for a dunk.  Contrast that with Jordan who was really an electric player.

[GGGG]

I find it interesting how everyone faults the Spurs (choking) because of a few bad plays and the Lebron led them back. 

They make 1 FT and everyone is talking about how Lebron choked away a win and a chance at a title. 

He threw the ball into the stands 2 of the last possessions of regulation when they needed a bucked.  He did the same thing earlier in the series. 

Everyone always talks about how exciting it is to watch Lebron, I don't watch a lot of the NBA, but from what I've see he is a very boring player to watch.  40% of the time he dribbles the ball for about 12 seconds before jacking up a shot.  40% of the time he slowly backs a guy down for 3-6 seconds before taking a turnaround.  10% of the time he just stands there and does nothing as he feels like he is not part of the play.  The other 10%, he is part of a nifty pass that he can throw down for a dunk.  Contrast that with Jordan who was really an electric player.

For a guy who doesn't watch a lot of NBA, you certainly are an expert on Lebron's game.

[forgetful]

For a guy who doesn't watch a lot of NBA, you certainly are an expert on Lebron's game.

I watch the playoffs only as in general I don't enjoy the NBA that much.  I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just boring to watch.  No need to get upset. 

I've been very open about the fact that I don't like Lebron and some of it is completely misguided.

I also tend to focus on little things in basketball.  Lebron is not good at the little things.  For instance, he may be the worst setter of picks in the history of the NBA.  He likes to have the ball in his hands.  When he doesn't have the ball he is trying to figure out how to get it back.  Great player yes....could he be even a hell of a lot better, I think so.  Just my opinions.

[GGGG]

I watch the playoffs only as in general I don't enjoy the NBA that much.  I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just boring to watch.  No need to get upset. 

I've been very open about the fact that I don't like Lebron and some of it is completely misguided.

I also tend to focus on little things in basketball.  Lebron is not good at the little things.  For instance, he may be the worst setter of picks in the history of the NBA.  He likes to have the ball in his hands.  When he doesn't have the ball he is trying to figure out how to get it back.  Great player yes....could he be even a hell of a lot better, I think so.  Just my opinions.

I'm not upset.  And again, you certainly are an expert on Lebron James.

[MUSF]

I watch the playoffs only as in general I don't enjoy the NBA that much.  I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just boring to watch.  No need to get upset. 

I've been very open about the fact that I don't like Lebron and some of it is completely misguided.

I also tend to focus on little things in basketball.  Lebron is not good at the little things.  For instance, he may be the worst setter of picks in the history of the NBA.  He likes to have the ball in his hands.  When he doesn't have the ball he is trying to figure out how to get it back.  Great player yes....could he be even a hell of a lot better, I think so.  Just my opinions.

Crazy talk.

Worst setter of picks in NBA history? Really? Did you watch game 2?

[flash]

I watch the playoffs only as in general I don't enjoy the NBA that much.  I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just boring to watch.  No need to get upset. 

I've been very open about the fact that I don't like Lebron and some of it is completely misguided.

I also tend to focus on little things in basketball.  Lebron is not good at the little things.  For instance, he may be the worst setter of picks in the history of the NBA.  He likes to have the ball in his hands.  When he doesn't have the ball he is trying to figure out how to get it back.  Great player yes....could he be even a hell of a lot better, I think so.  Just my opinions.

LeBron haters must be pretty desperate if they have resorted to criticizing the manner in which he sets screens. 

[MUSF]

I find it interesting how everyone faults the Spurs (choking) because of a few bad plays and the Lebron led them back. 

They make 1 FT and everyone is talking about how Lebron choked away a win and a chance at a title. 

He threw the ball into the stands 2 of the last possessions of regulation when they needed a bucked.  He did the same thing earlier in the series. 

Everyone always talks about how exciting it is to watch Lebron, I don't watch a lot of the NBA, but from what I've see he is a very boring player to watch.  40% of the time he dribbles the ball for about 12 seconds before jacking up a shot.  40% of the time he slowly backs a guy down for 3-6 seconds before taking a turnaround.  10% of the time he just stands there and does nothing as he feels like he is not part of the play.  The other 10%, he is part of a nifty pass that he can throw down for a dunk.  Contrast that with Jordan who was really an electric player.

I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and can't appreciate that they are seeing something truly special and unique.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  He didn't get all ball....all ball means all ball, not part of the arm and hand

Wrong. When your hand is on the ball (as LeBron's most definitely was) it is part of the ball - so yes, all ball, like Van Gundy (who's impartial and has forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know) pointed out.

You're amazing. You hate the NBA, never watch it, but you know more than the guys who get paid to broadcast it.

[forgetful]

I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and can't appreciate that they are seeing something truly special and unique.

It's mutual then, I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and feel that he is the greatest.  I like Rodman's comment that Lebron would have been average in Jordan's era (way overstatement), but Lebron is far from the greatest.

I believe he has the god given abilities to be the greatest ever, but he will never do it.

I actually would really enjoy watching a game with some of the Lebron cheerleaders so we could in a live scenario discuss his play.

[forgetful]

I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and can't appreciate that they are seeing something truly special and unique.

Also, would Jordan ever, in a single series, have two consecutive turnovers when the game was on the line.  For that matter, would Robertson, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Cousy, Isaiah, Miller, Stockton...etc ever done the same?

[MUSF]

It's mutual then, I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and feel that he is the greatest.  I like Rodman's comment that Lebron would have been average in Jordan's era (way overstatement), but Lebron is far from the greatest.

I believe he has the god given abilities to be the greatest ever, but he will never do it.

I actually would really enjoy watching a game with some of the Lebron cheerleaders so we could in a live scenario discuss his play.

I never said I think he is the greatest, and I really don't understand the need to start comparing him to MJ. There is a whole group of fans that can't seem to enjoy greatness in the NBA anymore because they are constantly concerned about the legacy of MJ.

Lebron is great. Jordan was great. Lebron can do a lot of things on the court Jordan could never do. Jordan did a lot of things that Lebron can't do. Ten years from now we may be able to have a legitimate debate about who was better. Until then, I'm going to enjoy watching Lebron do things that I have never seen before.

[MUSF]

Also, would Jordan ever, in a single series, have two consecutive turnovers when the game was on the line.  For that matter, would Robertson, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Cousy, Isaiah, Miller, Stockton...etc ever done the same?

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezDDZFuo6zU

[forgetful]

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezDDZFuo6zU

I honestly meant to do that twice in a single playoff (but yes, kudos for finding that one), as he already did it once in the Indiana series.  Jordan had a game like that once in his entire career, that is offset with numerous last second heroics.

Lebron doesn't have the same last second heroics and did it twice during one playoffs.

[MUSF]

Jordan had a game like that once in his entire career, that is offset with numerous last second heroics.

Lebron doesn't have the same last second heroics and did it twice during one playoffs.

Whatever, James is never going to be good enough for the Jordanites.

I get it, Jordan is the greatest of all time. I'm not trying to argue otherwise. What drives me nuts is that many Jordan worshipers feel the need to dump on Lebron's game to win this "greatest of all time" argument that most Lebron fans aren't even attempting to engage in.

The second thing that drives me nuts is the false mythology that has developed over the past 10-15 years. Jordan was great, the greatest of all time, but he wasn't perfect. He had bad playoff games, he turned the ball over, he got shut down sometimes. Your last post is a perfect example of this.

[forgetful]

Whatever, James is never going to be good enough for the Jordanites.

I get it, Jordan is the greatest of all time. I'm not trying to argue otherwise. What drives me nuts is that many Jordan worshipers feel the need to dump on Lebron's game to win this "greatest of all time" argument that most Lebron fans aren't even attempting to engage in.

The second thing that drives me nuts is the false mythology that has developed over the past 10-15 years. Jordan was great, the greatest of all time, but he wasn't perfect. He had bad playoff games, he turned the ball over, he got shut down sometimes. Your last post is a perfect example of this.

One game is not a big deal.  I'm well aware that Jordan got shut down sometimes and had bad games.  The difference is they were flukes.  Lebron has had a tendency to not come up big in the end of games.  Two turnovers down the stretch in game 1, bad, but fixable.  Two in a game 6 with the series on the line...different.  Lebron is one of the greats in the game today.  In my opinion, he isn't in the top 10 ever...likely not in the top 20.  But that is a tall order.

I honestly think the big difference is James as been crowned king since he was very young.  He never had to fight for anything, all the 'real' greats did.  James has to a large extent made due on sheer god given talent (he has a lot of it).

Now, I happen to think Jordan is the best ever, but a guy like Robertson, with todays training may be the best ever.  Dude averaged a triple double...that will never be done again.  Lebron averages a triple double I'll gladly crown him king.

[MUSF]

Lebron has had a tendency to not come up big in the end of games.  Two turnovers down the stretch in game 1, bad, but fixable.  Two in a game 6 with the series on the line...different.

Lebron averages a triple double I'll gladly crown him king.

I'm not going to engage in the Jordan vs. Lebron debate because it's pointless. Besides, I have already agreed that Jordan is the greatest of all time.

If you honestly think Lebron didn't come up big at the end of game 6, then you are simply cherry picking the turnover stat to fit your agenda. Lebron's 4th Quarter in game 6 was huge.

I don't think anyone is asking you to "crown Lebron king". Where are you getting this idea that there is this mass movement to declare Lebron the greatest ever? I hear a lot of criticism thrown Lebron's way by fans and media. Everybody wants more.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wrong. When your hand is on the ball (as LeBron's most definitely was) it is part of the ball - so yes, all ball, like Van Gundy (who's impartial and has forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know) pointed out.

You're amazing. You hate the NBA, never watch it, but you know more than the guys who get paid to broadcast it.

I'm quite aware the hand is part of the ball, the arm is not....as I stated.  It was also a blocking foul, which 9 times out of 10 would be called at any other part of the game.  And you're right, these announcers have never made any mistakes in any of these games.  LOL. 

Lots of people are paid to be broadcasters and many of them are called idiots, including by you right here on this board.  I guess you have exceptions.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

I actually feel sorry for people that watch Lebron and can't appreciate that they are seeing something truly special and unique.

Amen.

This is a 265lb man with world class athleticism and doing things that most players can only dream of.  Lots of haters out there, but this guy can play all 5 positions.  But hey, I don't watch a ton of NBA basketball so I'm not capable of knowing what a blocking foul is or how good Lebron is.