Game of Thrones fans here?

[Coleman]

Spot on. First off, some are never satisfied no matter what. They have an outcome in their own mind and anything that doesn't match up means the show is garbage.

I had no outcome in mind. My beef wasn't with the outcome, but how it was told. And yesterday's episode certainly wasn't garbage. But it did not live up to the prior 7 seasons we have enjoyed. It was poor storytelling and a disappointment.

[Hards Alumni]

I had no outcome in mind. My beef wasn't with the outcome, but how it was told. And yesterday's episode certainly wasn't garbage. But it did not live up to the prior 7 seasons we have enjoyed. It was poor storytelling and a disappointment.

I probably did over exaggerate when I said it was garbage.  I should have probably said that it wasn't up to the standards we are used to for this show.

[Galway Eagle]

I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

I didn't have any expectations last night going in but to be wowed.  And I was, wowed.  Just not with the lack luster story telling.  Once Jorah rode back from the Dothraki death scene I was worried.  When Greyworm was standing at the front of the assault and then somehow survived, I shook my head.  And when we got Lyanna Mormont's death I knew what we were getting from here on out was lazy fan fic.

I'm not upset that every plot didn't get wrapped up, after all, there are still three episodes left.  But at the same time, I doubt there was any point to some of the plots at all... we are just supposed to accept them as filler?  That's fine, but then why write them in at all?   I didn't say I was smarter than anyone, or that they were dumb for enjoying something that I didn't.  I said they lacked critical thinking.  I'm just surprised that after all the quality we got for years, that people are okay with what happened.

I agree with this 100%

The story has so many things to wrap up but the D&D are tired of making it so theyre focused on "fooled yah!" Then they are tying everything up.

[mu03eng]

But what if the whole point is that the humans were the biggest threat all along? Sure they banded together to defeat the obvious villain (who will show up in a prequel series I'm sure) but now they have nothing to do but turn on each other and what if the moral of this particular story is that humans only rise above their petty squabbling and lust for power when faced with a non-human existential threat?

Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

If that is the case fine, but then show us what she did. To spend 80 minutes on an episode and gloss over something so important is stupid.

Why does everything have to be spelled out?  She knew her home inside and out.  It's not difficult to imagine she could have navigated her way to where Bran was without being noticed.  Not to mention doing so would have ruined the moment when she attacked the Night King.  Sometimes it's ok not to show and explain everything. 

[Coleman]

Why does everything have to be spelled out?  She knew her home inside and out.  It's not difficult to imagine she could have navigated her way to where Bran was without being noticed.  Not to mention doing so would have ruined the moment when she attacked the Night King.  Sometimes it's ok not to show and explain everything.

There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

[Coleman]

But what if the whole point is that the humans were the biggest threat all along? Sure they banded together to defeat the obvious villain (who will show up in a prequel series I'm sure) but now they have nothing to do but turn on each other and what if the moral of this particular story is that humans only rise above their petty squabbling and lust for power when faced with a non-human existential threat?

Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.

I think you're giving GRRM (and humanity) far too much credit.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

Saying there were thousands of wights between where Arya was when she left Melisandre and The Hound and where she had to go is a massive assumption.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.

I think this is one of the biggest challenges. Magic is a lot more downplayed in the show than the books. Maybe they were right to do that. All us nerds are dying to know the hows and whys of bran, the night king,  and the faceless men, but there's a reason why fantasy shows often struggle with larger audiences. The successful ones focus more on the human elements

[Pakuni]

I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

I didn't have any expectations last night going in but to be wowed.  And I was, wowed.  Just not with the lack luster story telling.  Once Jorah rode back from the Dothraki death scene I was worried.  When Greyworm was standing at the front of the assault and then somehow survived, I shook my head.  And when we got Lyanna Mormont's death I knew what we were getting from here on out was lazy fan fic.

I'm not upset that every plot didn't get wrapped up, after all, there are still three episodes left.  But at the same time, I doubt there was any point to some of the plots at all... we are just supposed to accept them as filler?  That's fine, but then why write them in at all?   I didn't say I was smarter than anyone, or that they were dumb for enjoying something that I didn't.  I said they lacked critical thinking.  I'm just surprised that after all the quality we got for years, that people are okay with what happened.

As I said, you're wholly entitled to your opinion, and because I mean that, I won't argue over the details of the plot, etc.
That said, you complain of fan service in the choices the writers made, and yet demand fan service for the way you think it should have played out. See:
- "Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?"
- "Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now."
- "Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice."

As for the deaths/lack thereof for Jorah, Greyworm, Lyanna, etc., main characters' deaths need to serve the narrative of the story, not just rack up the body count. While you accurately note that GoT has willingly killed off popular characters, it always has been in furtherance of the story. Jorah dying offscreen with the Dothraki doesn't do that. Lyanna or Greyworm dying in at the hands (or teeth) of a random wight doesn't do that.
If your issue is that main characters sometimes escaping seemingly impossible situations (not to mention continuity and logic), then perhaps fantasy fiction isn't the thing for you.

[Pakuni]

There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

But there is a believable explanation. Arya is a sneaky-as-f--- assassin, which the show has gone to great lengths to show, especially in this season. Like, when hiding from the wights in Winterfell, they couldn't hear her movements, but could hear a drop of blood. Or when she snuck up on Jon in episode 1 in the exact same spot where she killed the Night King.
I mean, sure, the show could have shown her putting on a wight's face, slipping through the horde, etc., but that would have deprived viewers of a moment that - for most of us, at least - was far more satisfying than fulfilling the  need for a detailed exposition of her every movement.
And there was much foreshadowing that Arya was going to be the one to kill the Night King.

[mu03eng]

I think this is one of the biggest challenges. Magic is a lot more downplayed in the show than the books. Maybe they were right to do that. All us nerds are dying to know the hows and whys of bran, the night king,  and the faceless men, but there's a reason why fantasy shows often struggle with larger audiences. The successful ones focus more on the human elements

This is what I loved about the Star Wars EU back in the day....the written word is so much better for world building and being able to "explain how things work". Movies and Shows just can't do that very well especially as expansive as the magic is within GoT. I mean, I know nothing about the show or books other than what I hear people talk about or see on twitter/this message board and it seems like there are 37 different prophecies from different sources alone....how do all of those work, are they all true or not true, etc.

[mu03eng]

I think you're giving GRRM (and humanity) far too much credit.

Maybe, this is all for me to set up my fan fiction (even though I've never seen or heard for the sources directly) that the humans will destroy each other and whoever remains will restart society and Bran will become the new Night King who will resurface when humanity needs to be reunited again.

And yes, this is stolen nearly directly from the remade Battlestar Galactica, but whatevs (All of this has happened before and will happen again).

[Jockey]

I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

So Jon (Keefe) was gonna get out his collection of 3" plastic soldiers and play "army" to save the 7 Kingdoms?


I didn't say it had to be Arya who killed the NK. It was just my opinion based on watching the entire series. Others had their own valid opinions as well.

[Jockey]

I probably did over exaggerate when I said it was garbage.  I should have probably said that it wasn't up to the standards we are used to for this show.

I understand why many believe this. As I said earlier, there is really no way to end such a sprawling series to everyone's satisfaction.

But given the limited episodes for the final season and still much to be decided, I though devoting one entire episode to the battle (and this was probably as extended a battle scene as I have ever seen in a movie or series), was giving it its due. The "Battle of the Bastards" was an epic battle, but what did it get - 10 minutes or so?

[Jockey]

There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

You want a "believable explanation" in a show that has dragons, witches, bringing dead people back to life, etc.? The show is Fantasy - not day-to-day reality.

[tower912]

But she snuck up on Jon Snow in virtually the same spot in season 1.    Pretty sure she had a secret route. 

[Hards Alumni]

As I said, you're wholly entitled to your opinion, and because I mean that, I won't argue over the details of the plot, etc.
That said, you complain of fan service in the choices the writers made, and yet demand fan service for the way you think it should have played out. See:
- "Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?"
- "Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now."
- "Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice."

As for the deaths/lack thereof for Jorah, Greyworm, Lyanna, etc., main characters' deaths need to serve the narrative of the story, not just rack up the body count. While you accurately note that GoT has willingly killed off popular characters, it always has been in furtherance of the story. Jorah dying offscreen with the Dothraki doesn't do that. Lyanna or Greyworm dying in at the hands (or teeth) of a random wight doesn't do that.
If your issue is that main characters sometimes escaping seemingly impossible situations (not to mention continuity and logic), then perhaps fantasy fiction isn't the thing for you.

Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

You want a "believable explanation" in a show that has dragons, witches, bringing dead people back to life, etc.? The show is Fantasy - not day-to-day reality.

That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.

[jesmu84]

Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.

I think this show/world DID change quite a bit when it moved beyond being a literary adaptation and became a TV show.

I really enjoyed this podcast today: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/29/18523065/breaking-down-game-of-thrones-s8e3

[Hards Alumni]

I think this show/world DID change quite a bit when it moved beyond being a literary adaptation and became a TV show.

I really enjoyed this podcast today: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/29/18523065/breaking-down-game-of-thrones-s8e3

You're right, it became an entirely different show.

[#UnleashSean]

Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.

I feel like an 18 year old would be in better health overall and more likely to live through a trauma then a 60 something year old fat out of shape drunk would. Ie, pneumonia is something I could shake off and go do a couple laps, whereas my grandma may die from it while being in the world best hospital.

[brewcity77]

Robert Baratheon was also poisoned before he was gored, but why let the narrative get in the way of a new narrative?

[Hards Alumni]

Point is, brew, that no one survies catching a ton of stabs to the gut in those days.

[brewcity77]

Point is, brew, that no one survies catching a ton of stabs to the gut in those days.

Pretty solid evidence that she's Azor Ahai reborn, and you don't think R'hllor might have been able to look out for Arya considering he resurrected Jon Snow & Beric Dondarrion multiple times? Suspension of disbelief isn't just recommended in fantasy, it's required.

[Hards Alumni]

Pretty solid evidence that she's Azor Ahai reborn, and you don't think R'hllor might have been able to look out for Arya considering he resurrected Jon Snow & Beric Dondarrion multiple times? Suspension of disbelief isn't just recommended in fantasy, it's required.

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

What?  Based on what evidence at all?