Catholic 7 12th member

[major ram]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/weiss-new-conference-sju-league-article-1.1239044

Looks like this author covers St Johns. Creighton is not amongst the 12 with VCU in?
Also some insight on Coach Smart. NC State went for him after the FF, Illinois fans were positive they had him last year, but no dice. He has said he is happy in Richmond (it really is actually a nice small city) and I believe that so long as VCU AD moves in a poitive direction he will be here for a while. His salary is in the 1.8m range and living is much cheaper here than say LA or Chicago (he is a Cubs fan by the way). He and Mark Few are good friends and he and Brad Stevens are as well from what I understand. Few has stayed at a place he loves and I think Smart could too. Hell, I imagine the Richmond City Council could justify contributing $500k to his salary to keep him. Regardless, should he leave, the coach n waiting (I hope anyway) would be Mike Rhoades. See we've had the stepping stone deal done to us. Look at the results. Capel to Oklahoma (Blake G leaves and Capel is back on the Duke bench as an assistant), Anthony Grant to Alabama...dont read they boards as they are ready to dump him. ZVCU is prepared to spend the money on facilities and more importantly the Coach to keep the arrow pointed up. No way football happens at VCU. Soccer is sdtrong (we hired the lead asst off the Akron team 3 yrs ago and were ranked this season). Oh yeah the football thing...we made way too much fun of Old Dominion u to ever start a team at this point...great conversation if it happens it would be great and y'all come on down to Richmond for some Southern hospitality and great beer.

[Aughnanure]

I think what is kind of telling, is that there have been multiple VCU fans come out of their way to hunt down threads on C7 message boards.  Not one from SLU. 

Come on, now we're getting ridiculous here. One VCU fan found this thread and posted about it on their forum.  I don't see Butler fans anywhere at all, do you?

[Aughnanure]

VCU fan/student here.  I've been following a lot of the threads on the different "Catholic 7" basketball boards and had to respond to this one.

I did most of my undergrad at VCU, but transferred to Richmond to finish.  I'm back at VCU for my Masters right now, but plan on going back to UR for my law degree.

As far as UR and the Richmond market goes, they might as well not exist.  The University of Richmond actually has most of it's students come from the North East and A LOT from Philly.  Last time I checked, I think it was something like 8% of the UR student body actually being from Richmond.  UR is the most expensive school in the state.  There are much better institutions that are cheaper in VA (UVA, William & Mary etc.) Because the cost of living is so high in the North East, they can come to UR, and still et what would be an in-state rate to come here and get a better education.

The result is that Richmond has NO fan base here.  When they graduate, they all move back north.  The ones that are here, are all over 50 (because that was the last time students that atended UR were predominately from Richmond).  They are jokingly referred to as the red sweater crowd.  VCU is playing away at UR a week from Thursday, and it looks like it will be a home game for VCU.  My dad, my brother and I were all able to get 4 tickets to the UR/VCU game in their "premium" (center court, first 10 rows) without any problem.  UR selling out their court is a VERY rare occurrence (if ever).

I have a friend who is an owner of a local Richmond, VA news organization, and even though UR is a contributor to that news organization, UR has to constantly remind the news company that they exist (UR has complained several times that I know of about lack of coverage).

UR aside, I can tell you that the new basketball conference is all VCU fans have on their mind right now.  Being raked #22 in the AP top 25 is great, but being left behind in the A-10 (essentially the CAA+ after Butler, Xavier and Dayton leave) is a nightmare.  

You do know you are speaking to fans of a private school, most of whom are not Milwaukee natives?

[Aughnanure]

Marquette fan living in Richmond here.

IMO, VCU is the obvious choice between the two. This city lives and breathes Rams basketball. Many of my friends attend the university and have persuaded me to attend a few games. The experience is incredible to say the least.

As many posters in this thread have pointed out, the University of Richmond has a very niche following around here. My high schools halls were filled with VCU jerseys, even as far back as 2006; the same can't be said about the Spiders.

I dig the whole Catholic identity thing. Most of my family attended/attends Marquette. I still think VCU is a no-brainer though.

Neither SLU nor VCU is what anyone should call a "no brainer."

[vcuboy22]

Come on, now we're getting ridiculous here. One VCU fan found this thread and posted about it on their forum.  I don't see Butler fans anywhere at all, do you?

VCU fans>>>>>Everyone else

[Aughnanure]

They told me to be respectful until we get into the league and the all talk smack to u guys

Haha, I saw that on your board.

[vcuboy22]

Neither SLU nor VCU is what anyone should call a "no brainer."

Or Creighton , Dayton... The only sure fire ones are Butler and Xavier

[Aughnanure]

VCU>>>RICHMOND
VCU>>>>>ST.LOUIS
VCU>>>>>DAYTON

No on Dayton. I don't even like them, but no.

[vcuboy22]

Haha, I saw that on your board.

Ya they think i get feisty some times

[Aughnanure]

Or Creighton , Dayton... The only sure fire ones are Butler and Xavier

Yes, Creighton is. Don't even try. They sell out an 18,000+ arena, have a better history,....oh jeez what's the point.

[Aughnanure]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/weiss-new-conference-sju-league-article-1.1239044

Looks like this author covers St Johns. Creighton is not amongst the 12 with VCU in?
Also some insight on Coach Smart. NC State went for him after the FF, Illinois fans were positive they had him last year, but no dice. He has said he is happy in Richmond (it really is actually a nice small city) and I believe that so long as VCU AD moves in a poitive direction he will be here for a while. His salary is in the 1.8m range and living is much cheaper here than say LA or Chicago (he is a Cubs fan by the way). He and Mark Few are good friends and he and Brad Stevens are as well from what I understand. Few has stayed at a place he loves and I think Smart could too. Hell, I imagine the Richmond City Council could justify contributing $500k to his salary to keep him. Regardless, should he leave, the coach n waiting (I hope anyway) would be Mike Rhoades. See we've had the stepping stone deal done to us. Look at the results. Capel to Oklahoma (Blake G leaves and Capel is back on the Duke bench as an assistant), Anthony Grant to Alabama...dont read they boards as they are ready to dump him. ZVCU is prepared to spend the money on facilities and more importantly the Coach to keep the arrow pointed up. No way football happens at VCU. Soccer is sdtrong (we hired the lead asst off the Akron team 3 yrs ago and were ranked this season). Oh yeah the football thing...we made way too much fun of Old Dominion u to ever start a team at this point...great conversation if it happens it would be great and y'all come on down to Richmond for some Southern hospitality and great beer.

No Creighton would be very very disappointing. Remove SLU, Dayton, VCU...but not Creighton.

[dwaderoy2004]

Come on, now we're getting ridiculous here. One VCU fan found this thread and posted about it on their forum.  I don't see Butler fans anywhere at all, do you?

This thread isn't about butler.  Nor is there a debate about whether they should be added. 

[Aughnanure]

This thread isn't about butler.  Nor is there a debate about whether they should be added. 

I just think you're reaching for an additional reason.

[dwaderoy2004]

Not really.  One of my arguments is that nobody cares about SLU.

[vcuboy22]

Not really.  One of my arguments is that nobody cares about SLU.

Yea really who talks about SLU ... Iv heard more press bout Vcu in a week than St. LOUIS all year

[Aughnanure]

Yea really who talks about SLU ... Iv heard more press bout Vcu in a week than St. LOUIS all year

Says the VCU fan who spends all day looking for VCU mentions on other message boards.

[vcuboy22]

Says the VCU fan who spends all day looking for VCU mentions on other message boards.

Yep says me haha ... Just my opinion but i am right ... And alittle bias haha

[🏀]

I've never been one to act as the Grammar Police, but I'm thinking of one area SLU is better than VCU.

[Wisco]

Neither SLU nor VCU is what anyone should call a "no brainer."

My statement was in reference to the poll at hand.

[Pretzel]

First of all great forums and I'm enjoying the debate. Here's my little blurb about why I think VCU will be invited to the C7.

Let's revisit the press release from the C7 Presidents on why they were leaving the Big East and starting a new conference:

"Under the current context of conference realignment, we believe pursuing a new basketball framework that builds on this tradition of excellence and competition is the best way forward. While we pursue this opportunity for our institutions, we believe the efforts of the past two years have established the foundation for an enduring national football conference.

We look forward to building this new foundation with an emphasis on elite competition and a commitment to the development of our students engaged in intercollegiate athletics. That is where we will now spend our energy as we move forward."

Priorities from the C7 Presidents:
1. Money, correct they didn't say that but let's not kid ourselves. This will come mainly from network contracts and NCAA units.
2. Emphasis on elite competition and tradition of excellence for a basketball centric framework
3. Development of students engaged in intercollegiate athletes (academics)

Please note that they didn't say they were leaving because the Big East was not committed to the same religious beliefs or that schools were too big or public. It was that football controlled all decisions regarding the conference.

About VCU and addressing some common objections and misconceptions

Public- Should not be an issue as it wasn't for Louisville, Cincinnati and Rutgers (founding Big East member). This is about basketball vs football (and money).. not private vs public.

No religious ties- Most likely will be a pro so the C7 can shed the "C" and be basketball/student athletes first.

Large- The largest University in VA with 33,000 enrollment (very large fan base)

Your Arena is too small- VCU built it's modern basketball facilities in 1999 located on campus. Current max capacity is 7,693 and expansions are planned (and a new practice facility). From 2011 to today VCU is currently just one of five schools in the country to sell out each one of their home games, joined by Duke, Kansas, Michigan State and Gonzaga. In comparison, SLU's Chaifetz Arena's capacity is 10,414 with an average attendance of 7,464 in 2012.

Media Market- Other media markets may be larger; however VCU owns the central VA market. VCU's market does not overlap the Georgetown DC market. 50,000 central VA homes tuned into the VCU/Dayton game. The VCU/Butler final four was the most watched since 2005 when aired. Likely one of the main reasons VCU's name is being thrown around is due to FOX wanting them in the new league (conjecture).

You've only had success under Shaka Smart- Completely false. Yes we gained at ton of brand recognition with the final four run; however we've had success under multiple coaches. VCU has not had a loosing record for 13 straight years under 4 different coaches. Three of these coaches have taken VCU to the NCAA tourney in 5 out of the last 10 years. Jeff Capel once, Anthony Grant twice and Shaka Smart Twice. Going back to the 80's VCU has been to the NCAA Tourney 11 times under 5 different coaches.

Commuter School- (stolen from Iceman on another forum) VCU is not a commuter school. 23,000 undergrads in a city of 205,000 metropolitan. Seriously? 10% of the population is commuting to school? A simple search revealed the entire city of Richmond doesn't even have 23,000 students in all of their high schools combined, and the total number of seniors graduating each year is less than 3,000. Of those, only a fraction stay home to attend VCU. But yeah, 800-900 total students living at home and commuting to a 23,000 strong campus makes it a commuter school. The University of Houston, the largest actual commuter school in the country, has 31k undergrads from a city of 4.9M. SMH. VCU is a destination school. Just reading on their website would have told you less than 4% of their student body is from Richmond. Really hard to be a commuter school with 95%+ of your student body moves to that city to attend school.

Academics- (stolen from Iceman on another forum) Also, I'd caution against thinking that just b/c VCU is a public university, it's admissions standards are all that different. A third of the BE7 + candidates have a higher admission percentage than VCU. And if you look at US News Rankings (which aren't the best barometer, but are all we have), several of the schools are in the same neighborhood as VCU in terms of academic reputation. 5 of them don't even offer masters or other advanced degrees. I doubt there's a huge difference in admissions between the schools, and having watched/listened to players from all of the BE7 + candidates over the years, there's little doubt none of them have particularly high admissions requirements for student athletes. Every single school in the country has lower student athlete requirements than for the student body...........even Harvard.

Admissions comparison to Seton Hall:

VCU- Admissions Data (2011):
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 71%
Average High School GPA: 3.45
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 480 / 600
SAT Math: 490 / 590
SAT Writing: 470 / 590
ACT Composite: 20 / 26
Source: http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/virginia-commonwealth-university.htm

Seton Hall- Admissions Data (2011):
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 85%
Average High School GPA: 3.4
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 470 / 580
SAT Math: 490 / 590
SAT Writing: 490 / 600
ACT Composite: 21 / 26
Sources
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/seton-hall.htm
http://www.shu.edu/applying/undergraduate/application-checklist.cfm

Geography- VCU is a better fit in regards to an even geographic split of 6 East and 6 West schools. Geography will play an important roll regarding travel for all olympic sports. VCU is an easy fit into the 5 BE7 East Coast schools. Creighton and SLU are the geographic anomalies. It makes more since to pick SLU over Creighton if geography was of high importance


The following data is what should carry the most weight with the C7. Performance on the hardwood.

12 Years Avg: RPI and SOS (N/C)
Xavier- 39.42, 52.18
Creighton- 51.50, 129.00
VCU-69.17, 85.83
Dayton- 69.58, 71.55
Butler- 71.25, 111.27  
Richmond- 110.42, 120.73
Saint Louis- 104.75, 115.64
*Source Joe Linardi
**I could only find SOS (N/C) going back 6 years for VCU

NCAA Tournament History (last 10 years)
Xavier- total: 9, best: elite eight, record: 14-9
Butler- total: 6, best: runner up, record: 15-5
VCU- total: 5, best: final four, record: 7-5
Creighton- total 4, best: second round, record: 1-4
Dayton- total: 3, best: second round, record: 1-3
SLU- total: 1, best: second round, record: 1-1

NCAA Tournament History 1980-2012
VCU- total: 11, best: final four, record: 11-11
SLU- total: 5, best: second round, record: 3-5

ESPN 50 most successful programs of the past 50 years
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8298598/conference-breakdowns-50-50-rankings
34. Xavier
53. Virginia Commonwealth
59. Butler
69. Creighton
81. Dayton
126. Richmond
216. Saint Louis

Using the above data you would have to rank the candidates: (#8) Xavier, (#9) Butler, (#10) VCU, (#11) Creighton, (#12) Dayton, (#13) Richmond, (#14) St. Louis.

[rocky_warrior]

First of all great forums

I didn't read past the intro, but you have me convinced!
(I'll leave it to someone else to tear down your logic...)

[Norm]

As a MU alum living in Washington, DC, I've been touting VCU to get an invite to the new conference since the C7 split off from the BE, especially before Dayton or SLU are invited. My ideal new conference would include the C7 plus Xavier, Butler, Creighton, VCU and Gonzaga. If the league does not want to go all the way to the West Coast (or if Gonzaga doesn't want the travel for all sports), then look to SLU first, then Dayton.

[psrichmond]

I've never been one to act as the Grammar Police, but I'm thinking of one area SLU is better than VCU.

We have a very strong and literate fan base. 
Please don't judge us by the postings from one person  

[VCUfanURgrad]

You do know you are speaking to fans of a private school, most of whom are not Milwaukee natives?

Yes, but my response was directed at the question relating to fan base in the Richmond area.

[🏀]

We have a very strong and literate fan base. 
Please don't judge us by the postings from one person  

I'll keep an open mind, but first impressions.