Catholic 7 12th member

[MUMonster03]

Let's talk TV ratings for a moment. SLU averages around a 1.0 TV rating in their home market. Last week VCU pulled in a 7.7 overnight against Dayton. If you're looking at market potential, then SLU is the better choice. But that's a risk trying to get a market that's already caught up in Mizzou and Illinois to buy into the program.

As it stands, VCU is outperforming SLU in their home market by about 35,000 households a game. That's because VCU owns the Richmond market. Not Virginia Tech or Virginia or Richmond. It's not even close. We sold out the entire season in August, which will take us to 35 consecutive sellouts by March. There are six Fortune 500 companies in RVA, and major corporate money is the reason why we're about to build a practice facility that's third only to Oklahoma State or Kentucky. An expansion on the Siegel Center is not far on the Horizon (pun intended).

We'd like to be in a top-tier basketball conference, whether that's the A10 with Georgetown, Marquette, etc or the new Big East. Either way, best of luck to your program.

Thanks for providing some numbers in Richmond. My knowledge is from my travels around the state and have only been in Richmond a couple of times and that was a few years back before the recent success.

What do you mean by 3rd to Kentucky and Oklahoma State?

[Dawson Rental]

Hi there. VCU alum here, hope you guys don't mind me chiming in. I'm not going to tell you how awesome and incredible VCU is, except to say you just have to experience it for yourself.

Let's talk TV ratings for a moment. SLU averages around a 1.0 TV rating in their home market. Last week VCU pulled in a 7.7 overnight against Dayton. If you're looking at market potential, then SLU is the better choice. But that's a risk trying to get a market that's already caught up in Mizzou and Illinois to buy into the program.

As it stands, VCU is outperforming SLU in their home market by about 35,000 households a game. That's because VCU owns the Richmond market. Not Virginia Tech or Virginia or Richmond. It's not even close. We sold out the entire season in August, which will take us to 35 consecutive sellouts by March. There are six Fortune 500 companies in RVA, and major corporate money is the reason why we're about to build a practice facility that's third only to Oklahoma State or Kentucky. An expansion on the Siegel Center is not far on the Horizon (pun intended).

All that being said, SLU is a great university with a very good program with a commitment to high level basketball. I'm sure they aren't going away soon, either.

We'd like to be in a top-tier basketball conference, whether that's the A10 with Georgetown, Marquette, etc or the new Big East. Either way, best of luck to your program.

Georgetown and Marquette in the Atlantic 10?  You must be visiting the Dayton forums.

[Litehouse]

What do you mean by 3rd to Kentucky and Oklahoma State?

Yeah, I questioned something about that earlier.  Maybe we're a little defensive about this topic around here, but at t$12M, no way their place is going to compete with the Al.

[Litehouse]

This was from Saturday night and an editorial, but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/weiss-new-conference-sju-league-article-1.1239044

I wonder if Weiss knows what he's talking about? I know the NY Daily News isn't the most credible of media outlets.

PLEASE NO DIVISIONS!!!  If 12 teams means we have to go to divisions, I want to stay at 10, or even 9.

[GGGG]

I really doubt there will be divisions.  The SEC dropped them this year, and while a few of the "minor" conferences have them, they really make no sense for basketball. 

[CTWarrior]

Public- Should not be an issue as it wasn't for Louisville, Cincinnati and Rutgers (founding Big East member). This is about basketball vs football (and money).. not private vs public.

Rutgers isn't a founding member (didn't join until 1991 for football and later for hoops), but I agree with this point.  I think it is important for this conference to not limit itself to private or Catholic schools, which is a main reason I'd like to see VCU.

[MUMonster03]

PLEASE NO DIVISIONS!!!  If 12 teams means we have to go to divisions, I want to stay at 10, or even 9.

+1

I said close to the same thing in another thread. I have greatly enjoyed playing east coast schools such as Georgetown twice the last few years so I can go to more games.

[The Process]

Georgetown and Marquette in the Atlantic 10?  You must be visiting the Dayton forums.

I fixed that for him a couple pages back 

[77ncaachamps]

How much of Shaka Smart's success is tied to VCU's link to the future BE?

[chapman]

I really doubt there will be divisions.  The SEC dropped them this year, and while a few of the "minor" conferences have them, they really make no sense for basketball. 

Yep, pointless.  The coaches didn't like them in the SEC, and it is foolish to "divide" 12 teams.  The SEC coaches hated the inevitable ongoing debate over which division was better (in the C7+5 going "east" and "west" would make this worse), which culminated in a year when four or five teams from one division made the tournament and zero from the other made it.  With 12 teams, there's seven home-and-homes out of 11 possible and no reason they need to fix five of them.  The incremental travel doesn't fly; for MU it's at most going to Providence instead of Omaha and Philadelphia instead of Cincinnati.  Also likely that Fox is saying they prefer no divisions - if MU and Georgetown rule this conference for the next five years, they want the schedule to adapt to allow them to show that matchup twice every year and are willing to pay to make sure it happens. 

[Litehouse]

I could understand divisions in other sports like soccer, volleyball, and even womens bball, to minimize travel costs, but they can't do it in mens basketball.

[Pretzel]

How much of Shaka Smart's success is tied to VCU's link to the future BE?

Great question as most people outside of VA are only familiar with VCU's final run and to a lesser extent knocking Duke out of the first round in 2007. Yes we gained a ton of brand recognition with the final four run; however we've had success under multiple coaches. VCU has not had a loosing record for 13 straight years under 4 different coaches. 3 of these coaches have taken VCU to the NCAA tourney in 5 out of the last 10 years. Jeff Capel once, Anthony Grant twice and Shaka Smart Twice. Going back to the 80's VCU has been to the NCAA Tourney 11 times under 5 different coaches. While loosing Shaka would be a great loss (he's turned down Illinois and NC State) VCU has sustained success before him and will continue to do so whenever he moves on.

[VCUfanURgrad]

Great question as most people outside of VA are only familiar with VCU's final run and to a lesser extent knocking Duke out of the first round in 2007. Yes we gained a ton of brand recognition with the final four run; however we've had success under multiple coaches. VCU has not had a loosing record for 13 straight years under 4 different coaches. 3 of these coaches have taken VCU to the NCAA tourney in 5 out of the last 10 years. Jeff Capel once, Anthony Grant twice and Shaka Smart Twice. Going back to the 80's VCU has been to the NCAA Tourney 11 times under 5 different coaches. While loosing Shaka would be a great loss (he's turned down Illinois and NC State) VCU has sustained success before him and will continue to do so whenever he moves on.

But that's just it, if VCU gets an invite to the C7 conference, I don't think Shaka ever leaves. Remember Duke before coach K?  They were AWFUL. You can either be the coach that moves to a basketball school and be under constant pressure to preform, and given around 5 years to produce a championship before they start the talk about firing you, or you can be the coach who builds a dynasty like coach K. If VCU goes to the new conference, we would be able to double Shaka's salary now and give him a much larger recruiting budget. After building a new coliseum in Richmond for VCU games, there would be no incentive for him to leave.

My prediction, if VCU gets an invite, Shaka retires at VCU. If we don't get an invite and are left behind in the A-10, he's gone in 2-3 years if we are lucky.

[GGGG]

But that's just it, if VCU gets an invite to the C7 conference, I don't think Shaka ever leaves. Remember Duke before coach K?  They were AWFUL.

No they weren't.  In the three previous years before Coach K got there, they lost in the Elite 8, lost in the second round, and lost the '78 championship game to Kentucky.

Bill Foster left Duke for South Carolina because at the time South Carolina was considered a better program.

[MUMonster03]

Plus coaches can quickly change their tune. Please correct me if I'm wrong and forgetting something but how many times did Crean say he wasn't leaving until that one day he said "It's Indiana" (Sorry for dragging this up)

[GGGG]

Plus coaches can quickly change their tune. Please correct me if I'm wrong and forgetting something but how many times did Crean say he wasn't leaving until that one day he said "It's Indiana" (Sorry for dragging this up)

I don't think he ever flat out said "I'm not leaving."

[MUMonster03]

I don't remember if he exactly said that either but my point is just because Shaka has said no and stayed at VCU for now doesn't mean he won't leave if the right program comes along and offers him a boat load of cash and a rich history of success.

[brewcity77]

Remember Duke before coach K?  They were AWFUL.

Obviously you don't remember Duke before Coach K. Either that, or you have a really bizarre definition of awful. In the 20 years prior to Coach K's arrival, Duke...

• ...went to the tournament 7 times.
  
• ...went to the Elite Eight 5 times.
  
• ...went to the Final Four 4 times.
  
• ...went to the Championship game 2 times.

.
Duke was a very, very good program before K arrived. Since he arrived they have been raised to elite status, but that doesn't take away from how good they were under Vic Bubas in the 1960s and Bill Foster in the 1970s.

[Pretzel]

But that's just it, if VCU gets an invite to the C7 conference, I don't think Shaka ever leaves. Remember Duke before coach K?  They were AWFUL. You can either be the coach that moves to a basketball school and be under constant pressure to preform, and given around 5 years to produce a championship before they start the talk about firing you, or you can be the coach who builds a dynasty like coach K. If VCU goes to the new conference, we would be able to double Shaka's salary now and give him a much larger recruiting budget. After building a new coliseum in Richmond for VCU games, there would be no incentive for him to leave.

My prediction, if VCU gets an invite, Shaka retires at VCU. If we don't get an invite and are left behind in the A-10, he's gone in 2-3 years if we are lucky.

While I completely agree with your logic, I believe Smart is different than most. Shaka was accepted into Harvard, Yale and Brown out of high school but chose Div. III Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, because of his relationship with the basketball coach. He had the option to go to the "bigger brand" ivy league schools but decided the grass wasn't greener and put relationships first. Also, after his freshman year, the coach left, and Smart was heartbroken. He knows what it feels like to have your coach/mentor leave. While VCU did a great increasing Shaka's base to $1.2M before bonuses.. he still walked away from a guaranteed $2.5M at Illinois.

I don't think Shaka is a man that chases after established programs or quick cash (which he has proven). He does not want to piggy back off of another program's legacy. He wants to create his own legacy and that's what he's doing at VCU.

[MUMonster03]

I don't think Shaka is a man that chases after established programs or quick cash (which he has proven). He does not want to piggy back off of another program's legacy. He wants to create his own legacy and that's what he's doing at VCU.

So far you are right he has stayed where he is at and is building the program. But who ever thought Roy Williams would leave Kansas but the dream job came open in UNC. But you bring in a school because of their success as a program not because of a hot coach and VCU supporters have been trumpeting that the program has been successful before Shaka.

[dwaderoy2004]

What happens if the Kenyon college job opens.  Shaka is gone!

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

NCAA Tournament History 1980-2012
VCU- total: 11, best: final four, record: 11-11
SLU- total: 5, best: second round, record: 3-5

Perspective: 5 of VCU's all-time NCAA Tournament wins came in one tournament run.

So minus the 2011 Final Four run, which, while a tremendous accomplishment for any program, and the wins over Kansas and Purdue were impressive, recall that the tourney run also included a win over Southern Cal in the play-in game, a Georgetown team that finished 8th in the Big East, and 10th-seeded Florida State. It was a Cinderella run made possible in part by a good deal of underachieving opposition.

Take that 2011 run out of the picture, and the two programs' records come to
VCU- total 10, hasn't made it past the first weekend in school history. NCAA Record is 6-10.
SLU- total 5, hasn't made it to the Sweet 16 since 1957. NCAA Record is 3-5.

The obvious criticism of this line of thought is that without Marquette's run to the Final Four in 2003, we might not have ever been invited to the Big East. Which may well be true. And yet, DePaul managed to gain an invite at the same time, despite having only won one NCAA Tournament game since 1990 and being a complete dumpster fire of a program.

The point is, if we're only making this decision on basketball, VCU's claim to fame is two weeks in March....once. Are those two weeks enough to trump the other programs considering that the Rams have made just one second-weekend appearance in their school's history? After all, VCU gained a lot of notoriety from the Final Four run, but since 2005, VCU has missed the tournament as often as they've made it. Does that make VCU the wrong choice or the right choice? I don't know.

[foreverwarriors]

VCU vs Dayton last week

Considering some on this board's obsession with the topic, how has nothing been said about VCU's love of banners?

[🏀]

Considering some on this board's obsession with the topic, how has nothing been said about VCU's love of banners?

I was going to say the same thing.

Sweet #6 banner.

[4everwarriors]

Looks to me like those banners have an actual accomplishment to justly advertise. Unlike our former self-promoting, musical instrument salesman, who used to reside right here in River City, my friends.