Buzz and MU's "Ceiling"

[Goose]

Pakuni

Nicely done on your rumors vs. reality. I have only believed in one rumor, Buzz will be gone and thus program is downsized. I never bought into the other rumors for several reasons. Biggest reason why I did not buy those rumors was because of other than on this site I never heard the same things from people I trust. As for my belief, Buzz will not be our coach in a year and the school will directly or indirectly change the course of the program.

As I stated yesterday, you may be right and I hope you are correct.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Has anyone ever coached a 'lame duck' season like some here are assuming Buzz is?

/doesn't believe it for a minute

[Goose]

Red Stripe


While I believe Buzz is gone after this year does not mean things cannot be mended. Would say highly doubtful, but anything is possible. But to address to your point, KO had a lame duck year, as he was going anywhere after his last season even if a step backwards. TC had feelers out for several seasons and contacted IU in Feb of his last year. I would think that many coaches know they are leaving a place in advance.

[dgies9156]

OK, I'm going to say it again and again and again until folks on this board get it.

"It" is not about the personality differences, if any, between Buzz, LW and Father Pilarz.
 
FOLKS, IT IS ABOUT MONEY!

IT IS ABOUT VISIBILITY!

IT IS ABOUT KEEPING THE FURNACE ON SO MARQUETTE CAN DO ITS THING@!@!!

How do you people think Marquette evolved from a few buildings in an urban neighborhood west of downtown Milwaukee into a national university? It's McGuire Money folks! That's right, all those buildings, the union and the renovations happened because Marquette was visible. What makes Marquette visible? To the outside world, it's BASKETBALL! Al made a lot of the growth happen because Marquette got national exposure. Father Raynor was smart enough to realize that.

Why do you think Buzz is the highest paid employee of Marquette University????? Even the most liberal faculty member ought to know that!

Father Pilarz and LW are not stupid. They know if Buzz isn't happy, we have to rebuild and that means lower visibility. Even your Lib Arts majors know that translates into fewer dollars from alumni and friends. That means higher tuition, fewer scholarships and a different cut of students.

Think about it next time before you whine about Buzz leaving!

[GGGG]

How do you people think Marquette evolved from a few buildings in an urban neighborhood west of downtown Milwaukee into a national university? It's McGuire Money folks!

Well that's not entirely true.  Marquette consolidated its campus and started closing streets in the early 60s.  I mean, the Todd and William Wehr buildings were built in the mid-60s...after McGuire got to MU.

Now it would be entirely accurate to say that basketball helped drag MU out of the financial issues it fell into that lead to, among other things, the sale of the medical school and shutting down of the football team.  And again helped the University at its next low point in the late 80s and early 90s.

[Goose]

dgies9156

Just maybe Fr. P thinks we can high visibilty by enhanced academic repuation. Just maybe Fr. P. thinks Buzz is a loose cannon and the risk is greater than reward with him. Just maybe Fr. P thinks being top tier program is easy and replacement coach would line up around The Al.

Over the years MU admin often have been at odds with the basketball program and the coach. That dates back to Al's days at the school. As a rule the happiest times in ball history has been with ball friendly AD and President. Don't assume every person that gets a check from MU is happy that basketball is the face of the school.

[NersEllenson]

That's not what I'm suggesting. And, in fact, schools frequently place restrictions on players when releasing them from LOIs. Most don't go as far as Bo Ryan, but it's not uncommon.
I'm suggesting MU would tell these recruits, "We really want you at Marquette and hope you would get to know (New Coach) before making any final decisions. But if you insist on a release, here's a list of 343 Division I programs you can chose from, and one you can't."
That's a far cry from forcing a kid to go to a school he's no longer interest in.
And I'm not even sure this would lead to much bad PR, if any. Buzz would take as much flak for trying to vulture his former employer.

Did MU place restrictions on Ty Taylor?  Nick Williams?  Schools do not place restrictions on where kids can go, when the coach they sign with leaves the university, prior to the players arrival for their freshman year.  Schools only, and only recently, placed restrictions on where already enrolled players can transfer to - incoming freshman and already enrolled players are too different scenarios.

[Lennys Tap]

OK, I'm going to say it again and again and again until folks on this board get it.

"It" is not about the personality differences, if any, between Buzz, LW and Father Pilarz.
 
FOLKS, IT IS ABOUT MONEY!

IT IS ABOUT VISIBILITY!

IT IS ABOUT KEEPING THE FURNACE ON SO MARQUETTE CAN DO ITS THING@!@!!

How do you people think Marquette evolved from a few buildings in an urban neighborhood west of downtown Milwaukee into a national university? It's McGuire Money folks! That's right, all those buildings, the union and the renovations happened because Marquette was visible. What makes Marquette visible? To the outside world, it's BASKETBALL! Al made a lot of the growth happen because Marquette got national exposure. Father Raynor was smart enough to realize that.

Why do you think Buzz is the highest paid employee of Marquette University????? Even the most liberal faculty member ought to know that!

Father Pilarz and LW are not stupid. They know if Buzz isn't happy, we have to rebuild and that means lower visibility. Even your Lib Arts majors know that translates into fewer dollars from alumni and friends. That means higher tuition, fewer scholarships and a different cut of students.

Think about it next time before you whine about Buzz leaving!

I agree that Al and basketball did more for Marquette University than every professor or administrator here before and since put together. And I agree that as smart men Fr Pilarz and LW should have Buzz's happiness as an extremely high priority. But smart men have egos and smart men sometimes like to put their stamp on things. When Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust I'm sure their were plenty of smart men all in on that decision. If you think smart men don't make dumb decisions...

[BrewCity83]

Unless they are bold-faced liars (which I don't think they are), Fr. P and LW are basketball-friendly.  They have spoken often about how important the BB program is to MU.  I believe that they are doing everything they can do to keep Buzz happy (within the confines of running a clean program with good citizens).  I still think there are some adjustments that Buzz, LW and Fr. P are going through getting used to working together, but the stakes are high and I trust that these 3 smart individuals will find a way to make it work out for the best of all involved.  I believe that this future includes Buzz staying at MU for a long time.

[Lennys Tap]

Unless they are bold-faced liars (which I don't think they are), Fr. P and LW are basketball-friendly.  They have spoken often about how important the BB program is to MU.  I believe that they are doing everything they can do to keep Buzz happy (within the confines of running a clean program with good citizens).  I still think there are some adjustments that Buzz, LW and Fr. P are going through getting used to working together, but the stakes are high and I trust that these 3 smart individuals will find a way to make it work out for the best of all involved.  I believe that this future includes Buzz staying at MU for a long time.

I think that everyone on Scoop hopes you're correct.

[NersEllenson]

I agree that Al and basketball did more for Marquette University than every professor or administrator here before and since put together. And I agree that as smart men Fr Pilarz and LW should have Buzz's happiness as an extremely high priority. But smart men have egos and smart men sometimes like to put their stamp on things. When Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust I'm sure their were plenty of smart men all in on that decision. If you think smart men don't make dumb decisions...

Well said...

Unless they are bold-faced liars (which I don't think they are), Fr. P and LW are basketball-friendly.  They have spoken often about how important the BB program is to MU.  I believe that they are doing everything they can do to keep Buzz happy (within the confines of running a clean program with good citizens).  I still think there are some adjustments that Buzz, LW and Fr. P are going through getting used to working together, but the stakes are high and I trust that these 3 smart individuals will find a way to make it work out for the best of all involved.  I believe that this future includes Buzz staying at MU for a long time.

And also well said.  Sure hope it goes down the road of Ball Crusher's post...and hope we don't hear or read of anymore egotistical statements made by LW.  Think all parties would best be served by LW focusing on operational matters within the athletic department, and not PR/media relations.

[Goose]

I also hope BrewCityBallerCrusher is right on!!!!

[GGGG]

Did MU place restrictions on Ty Taylor?  Nick Williams?  Schools do not place restrictions on where kids can go, when the coach they sign with leaves the university, prior to the players arrival for their freshman year.  Schools only, and only recently, placed restrictions on where already enrolled players can transfer to - incoming freshman and already enrolled players are too different scenarios.

Well to be fair, neither could transfer to a Big East school per conference rule.

[dgies9156]

I agree that Al and basketball did more for Marquette University than every professor or administrator here before and since put together. And I agree that as smart men Fr Pilarz and LW should have Buzz's happiness as an extremely high priority. But smart men have egos and smart men sometimes like to put their stamp on things. When Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust I'm sure their were plenty of smart men all in on that decision. If you think smart men don't make dumb decisions...

Maybe I have worked in the private sector too long, but there's a word that accompanies every action I take -- accountability. It means that if I screw up, I'm responsible. It means that if things go well, I'm responsible. If I make a change and revenue decreases, I'm called on the carpet.

Father and LW also are accountable. If we encourage our head coach to go elsewhere and our record drops to 10-18 under new Coach Bob Dukiet Jr., who likes LW, LW will be sweeping floors at Notre Dame Stadium. Or he will be on the first Southwest flight back to Portland. Father Pilarz will be teaching 14th century literature somewhere.

I'm the first to agree that Al and the Jesuits were occasionally at odds. And the faculty of the 1970s did not care much for the fact that the basketball coach made a salary exponentially greater than their's. Nor do I think they cared for the fact that Marquette was better known for its basketball than its professor of 12th century mysticism in the Philosophy Department. But that's life as we know it.

The Jesuits may have been silly enough to kill the Warrior for the Golden Eagle. But they don't normally eat golden gooses and they ain't killing this one. Even with that ridiculous Marquette Magazine article on LW, I still think these are intelligent, God (an dalumni) fearing men who know better than to mess with Happy.

[GGGG]

Who said that LW or SP wouldn't be held accountable?  They wouldn't be necessarily held accountable if Buzz leaves, but they most certainly would be if the basketball program falls apart as a result.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm the first to agree that Al and the Jesuits were occasionally at odds. And the faculty of the 1970s did not care much for the fact that the basketball coach made a salary exponentially greater than their's. Nor do I think they cared for the fact that Marquette was better known for its basketball than its professor of 12th century mysticism in the Philosophy Department. But that's life as we know it.

Let's see. Professor at University X makes a salary of Y. Along comes a basketball coach who single handedly raises the university's profile and desireability. Now (due to nothing he has done) that same professor makes, say, Y + 20%. Professor then rails against the coach's salary and the university's emphasis on basketball over more scholarly pursuits - but he still cashes his checks.

[Gato78]

As stated earleir today on IWB's board, the LW, Fr. P and Buzz situation can really be boiled down to two words: Krunti Hester. Might get a good, even great coach after Buzz but there are no guarantees. Krunti F. Hester.

Who said that LW or SP wouldn't be held accountable?  They wouldn't be necessarily held accountable if Buzz leaves, but they most certainly would be if the basketball program falls apart as a result.

[madtownwarrior]

Really?   Think this is quite a stretch - why would Isaac Chew leave Illinois for MU (or does he have eyes on the HC job), why would recruits "commit to MU" versus just waiting to know where Buzz lands (guess we know if recruits don't sign in Nov)

And I get confused cause in other posts you says "if buzz leaves" and "hope I am wrong"- which way is it?- does Buzz have a agreement to leave or not?

I think one needs to be very careful with the "sources" with something so strongly worded as this...

Ners

Buzz and MU can mutually decide to part ways and Buzz not be fired. From what I have heard several times that mutually parting of ways happened in the spring. MU has a year to put together a list of replacements and Buzz has a year to make a positive move, not a SMU type move. I believe MU avoided a PR nightmare by working out a deal with Buzz. Again, everything I have heard simply comes down to Buzz not being Fr. P's kind of guy. Like it or not but there are times when bosses do not like employees. It might just come down to them not thinking Buzz does it the right way....who knows.

[NersEllenson]

As stated earleir today on IWB's board, the LW, Fr. P and Buzz situation can really be boiled down to two words: Krunti Hester. Might get a good, even great coach after Buzz but there are no guarantees. Krunti F. Hester.

What was the deal with Hester - and how does that parallel the Buzz situation?  Can't recall if Hester ever made it to MU and was booted, or if Deane (or Crean?)  wanted him at MU and couldn't recruit him?

[Pakuni]

What was the deal with Hester - and how does that parallel the Buzz situation?  Can't recall if Hester ever made it to MU and was booted, or if Deane (or Crean?)  wanted him at MU and couldn't recruit him?

Hester was the sole recruit of Mike Deane's final class at MU. He played (well, sat) at MU for a season then transferred to Lamar to play for Deane there.

That said, this seems the worst analogy ever. I'm guessing it means that if Buzz leaves MU gets a roster full of Krunti Hesters????
In reality, even during the Dukiet and Deane eras, MU didn't get a bunch of Krunti Hesters.

[Gato78]

The point is Deane was a good coach who came well recomended. He did a great job with the alums. He was highly thought of in the coaching community. He was essentially hired at Dayton and blew them off to come to MU. Despite all of that promise and some initial success when he had O'Neill's recruits, the program spiraled down to the point where his top recruit was not even ranked in the top 25 of his home state. Krunti may have been a wonderful kid but he is emblematic of the deteriorting standards and success at MU under the well regarded Deane. Despite thoughts that a new coach can just keep things going, it is not always the case, there is risk invovled. I thought the point was self-evident.

Hester was the sole recruit of Mike Deane's final class at MU. He played (well, sat) at MU for a season then transferred to Lamar to play for Deane there.

That said, this seems the worst analogy ever. I'm guessing it means that if Buzz leaves MU gets a roster full of Krunti Hesters????
In reality, even during the Dukiet and Deane eras, MU didn't get a bunch of Krunti Hesters.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Bros,
It ain't the Domers, the Poet, or the Buzzer who are the decision makers, it is the Mrs.

[NersEllenson]

Bros,
It ain't the Domers, the Poet, or the Buzzer who are the decision makers, it is the Mrs.

Well then somebody needs to get Corey's e-mail address and let her know how valued Buzz is by 95% of our fanbase, and that the other 5% are the same kind of outlier idiots every program has...and it is entirely possible that sometimes those 5% can reside in administrative roles.

[real chili 83]

Bros,
It ain't the Domers, the Poet, or the Buzzer who are the decision makers, it is the Mrs.

Ain't that a buzz kill. 

And as all of us married guys know, ain't that the truth.

[LAZER]

I still think Buzz only leaves if there's a better job open.  I don't see him taking a step backwards and uprooting his family just because of his relationship with the AD.  It wouldn't be a good career move with the way he has this program headed.