Overreaction

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So you think there is no way that LW/admin is targeting the basketball team because of some sort of concerns?  If you don't think so, that's fine and we'll agree to disagree.  I just look at the evidence in total and think there is something afoot.

#1 I don't have a good apples to apples comparison to know if the hoops team is being targeted, quite honestly, I don't think you do either, or at the very least you aren't sharing it.

#2 The lack of suspensions and "drama" with the other programs is not clear indicator that they don't receive the same enforcement. It could be an indication that they have had less issues, and have been able to handle the issues they do have, quietly. My guess is the hoops team has their share of "quiet issues" as well.  

#3 MU, in and of itself has become a target of the media and fans the past 2-3 years because of success, and some less than desirable situations (both alleged and real). So, while the basketball team is indeed more of a target, I don't think it's the Athletic Department playing an active role in it as you have indicated.

#4 "Equal enforcement" is going to be always going to be a relative term for any major athletic department. Code of conduct for the players is going to be relatively consistent across every sport, but given the PR ramifications, some of the punishments might be more/less public out of necessity.

EXAMPLE:
X Soccer player is underage at a bar and some pictures end up on facebook. A coach finds out. Punishment is handled internally (AD and coach) and no press release is issued.

X Basketball player is underage at a bar. He is recognized and a picture is put up on Facebook. Punishment is handled internally, and some sort of press release is issued to answer questions from the media and fans.

Is the athletic department "targeting" the basketball team? Not really, imo. It's imperfect nature of college athletics.

EDIT: Grammar

[MerrittsMustache]

Honestly, this whole whatever-it-is speaks to just how clean of a program Marquette has run over the years. Think about it. People are losing their minds and claiming the program is out of control because of a free t-shirt, a couple minor suspensions and 20-year-olds being in a bar! Before you know it, the players will be listening to that rap music at loud volumes!

Seriously, this stuff is laughable.

[NersEllenson]

You know, everybody goes back to the quotes as some sort of evidence, but nobody talks about the Buzz and Larry high fives after the WVU game.

Just sayin'.

The issue is LW's quotes to the Journal Sentinel came after the WVU game.  As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

[Rubie Q]

The issue is LW's quotes to the Journal Sentinel came after the WVU game.  As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVd493yAhM

[mu03eng]

Honestly, this whole whatever-it-is speaks to just how clean of a program Marquette has run over the years. Think about it. People are losing their minds and claiming the program is out of control because of a free t-shirt, a couple minor suspensions and 20-year-olds being in a bar! Before you know it, the players will be listening to that rap music at loud volumes!

Seriously, this stuff is laughable.

I completely agree with that, but that's what is so vexing about what MU is doing, they seem to be overreacting as a result we all are.

[mu03eng]

#1 I don't have a good apples to apples comparison to know if the hoops team is being targeted, quite honestly, I don't think you do either, or at the very least you aren't sharing it.

#2 The lack of suspensions and "drama" with the other programs is not clear indicator that they don't receive the same enforcement. It could be an indication that they have had less issues, and have been able to handle the issues they do have, quietly. My guess is the hoops team has their share of "quiet issues" as well.  

#3 MU, in and of itself has become a target of the media and fans the past 2-3 years because of success, and some less than desirable situations (both alleged and real). So, while the basketball team is indeed more of a target, I don't think it's the Athletic Department playing an active role in it as you have indicated.

#4 "Equal enforcement" is going to be always going to be a relative term for any major athletic department. Code of conduct for the players is going to be relatively consistent across every sport, but given the PR ramifications, some of the punishments might be more/less public out of necessity.

EXAMPLE:
X Soccer player is underage at a bar and some pictures end up on facebook. A coach finds out. Punishment is handled internally (AD and coach) and no press release is issued.

X Basketball player is underage at a bar. He is recognized and a picture is put up on Facebook. Punishment is handled internally, and some sort of press release is issued to answer questions from the media and fans.

Is the athletic department "targeting" the basketball team? Not really, imo. It's imperfect nature of college athletics.

EDIT: Grammar

My fault I brought some info to share with the board of other events/actions taking place that were contrary to what seemed to be going on with the basketball team.  I'm not willing to A) burn the individuals involved B) burn the people who told me so I have to be vague.  I recognize that is not sufficient for some, and that's fair, I'm anonymous poster who could all be making it up.  I believe I have an apples to apples comparison but I'm unwilling to go into detail.  I've stated my concerns, people have disagreed and we move on.  I appreciate those willing to have a civil discussion like Guns and Brew.

I will leave one thought behind, I respect the folks that think this is much ado about nothing and sincerely hope they are correct.  However, I'm curious as to why there is such a large insistence that such theorizing on my and others parts' is patently false and a general disregard for those who are concerned?

[NersEllenson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVd493yAhM

What part of postgame do you not understand?? 

[KenoshaWarrior]

I'm feeling good about the state of the program for a simple reason. Lots of people are suddenly gunning for it. Everytime one of our guys even weaves and hints at being out of line, hysteria breaks out.

That is kinda of where I am at.  Every day on the Paul Finebaum Show Auburn fans call up and rip on Alabama for minor incidents.  The reason why is because Bama is the top dog.

[StillAWarrior]

As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

Or, it could be that Buzz was totally on board with the suspensions because he's all about teaching these kids important lessons and he and Larry agreed that they should be suspended even if it meant that they could well lose a conference game.  After winning the game in spite of the suspensions -- effectively achieving the teaching moment without any harm to the team's record -- Buzz was extremely happy and reacted in a way that was out of the ordinary with regard to his usual post game decorum.  That's how I interpreted it.  Honestly, when I saw Buzz dancing across the WVU logo, I personally think it looked a lot more like releasing joy than releasing aggression.

But (and this is probably an important thing for all of us to remember):  I have no idea what Buzz was thinking at the time (or at any time since).

[Rubie Q]

What part of postgame do you not understand?? 

My bad. Should've realized that because there were still 30 seconds on the clock when Buzz reacted with exuberance and did something a little goofy in the Louisville game, that makes it totally unlike Buzz reacting with exuberance and doing something a little goofy two minutes after the WVU game ended.

[MerrittsMustache]

I completely agree with that, but that's what is so vexing about what MU is doing, they seem to be overreacting as a result we all are.

How are they overreacting? They fired an employee who lied to his superiors. Where else have there been overreactions from MU?

[Earl Tatum]

Merrits Mustache hit the nail on the head.

[MerrittsMustache]

The issue is LW's quotes to the Journal Sentinel came after the WVU game.  As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

The straight male equivalent of hate-sex?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I will leave one thought behind, I respect the folks that think this is much ado about nothing and sincerely hope they are correct.  However, I'm curious as to why there is such a large insistence that such theorizing on my and others parts' is patently false and a general disregard for those who are concerned?

I don't think you're patently false, but I think some leaps are being made out of fear.

- We like Buzz, we like winning.

- Enter a new President, and new AD. We don't know them.

- Some decisions are made that might impact the success of MU basketball.

- Several people jump to broad conclusions about the new Pres. and AD because they are fearful that the new guys are going to mess it up and take our toy away.

- Once we get to know the Pres. and AD better, it might not be so scary to trust them. Or, maybe they are terrible people. I don't know, yet.

[Tugg Speedman]

Honestly, this whole whatever-it-is speaks to just how clean of a program Marquette has run over the years. Think about it. People are losing their minds and claiming the program is out of control because of a free t-shirt, a couple minor suspensions and 20-year-olds being in a bar! Before you know it, the players will be listening to that rap music at loud volumes!

Seriously, this stuff is laughable.

Yeah, that girl at the Halloween party two years ago really thought the antics of the team was laughable.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The issue is LW's quotes to the Journal Sentinel came after the WVU game.  As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

Listen, the high 5 isn't a smoking gun either, I fully admit that. They still might not get along, I don't know.

But, you are working pretty hard to contort yourself and your narrative to show that Larry is bad.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yeah, that girl at the Halloween party two years ago really thought the antics of the team was laughable.

OK, so there was one very serious accusation (that went no where) and a bunch of laughable offenses. Better?

[Tugg Speedman]

OK, so there was one very serious accusation (that went no where) and a bunch of laughable offenses. Better?

It went nowhere because public safety screwed up the investigation and lots of people think that incident is a big reason Cottingham is not the AD today.

Also lying about violating rules is not a laughing matter.

Neither is getting into a fight a 1:30 AM on Wells outside Qdoba.

It is far more serious that you think.

[Lennys Tap]

It went nowhere because public safety screwed up the investigation and lots of people think that incident is a big reason Cottingham is not the AD today.

Also lying about violating rules is not a laughing matter.

Neither is getting into a fight a 1:30 AM on Wells outside Qdoba.

It is far more serious that you think.

It is far less serious than yo think.

[Goose]

The VB issue still remains a serious black eye. Even bigger than the incident was the handling of it by Buzz and Cottingham.

[KenoshaWarrior]

What the hell is the VB issue?

[NersEllenson]

Listen, the high 5 isn't a smoking gun either, I fully admit that. They still might not get along, I don't know.

But, you are working pretty hard to contort yourself and your narrative to show that Larry is bad.

No - I'm really not working pretty hard to contort myself and my narrative to show that Larry is bad.  Larry made the dumb statements to the Journal Sentinel.  We went from Buzz turning down Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas A&M last year to seriously entertaining SMU this year.  SM freaking U!!

Gee....I wonder what changed??  But yeah man - I'm really working pretty hard at contorting myself and my narrative. 

 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No - I'm really not working pretty hard to contort myself and my narrative to show that Larry is bad.  Larry made the dumb statements to the Journal Sentinel.  We went from Buzz turning down Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas A&M last year to seriously entertaining SMU this year.  SM freaking U!!

Gee....I wonder what changed??  But yeah man - I'm really working pretty hard at contorting myself and my narrative. 

 

That's fine, I never said they were best friends. I just said people keep bringing up the quotes from Larry again and again, but nobody talks about the high five.

Instead of the simplest explanation, they might actually get along sometimes, you came with this:

As for Buzz walking up to Larry and high fiving him after the WVU game...could have been some aggression release on Buzz's part to an extent for having been forced (not at his discretion) to suspend players for that critical game - yet to still be able to win.  Also might explain his little two step dance after the game too.  Both the high five and two step were out of the ordinary with regard to Buzz's post game decorum.

I mean, really? An "aggression release" high five? and Buzz's dancing is out of the ordinary and somehow related to Larry?

[GGGG]

I mean, really? An "aggression release" high five? and Buzz's dancing is out of the ordinary and somehow related to Larry?

Hey, whatever fits the narrative.  Or maybe Buzz told him that in an email.

[brewcity77]

There seem to be two general camps. The first camp is the "Buzz should be gone, program is in ruins, we can't possibly survive this" angle. The second camp is the "Larry Williams is the Notre Dame devil, trying to drive MU hoops into the ground, we can't possibly survive this" perspective.

The truth is probably somewhere in between. Most likely, the program isn't in ruins, and Larry Williams isn't trying to drive MU hoops into the ground. And regardless, I'm pretty sure we can survive this.