Overreaction

[SoCalwarrior]

Shh, we're soon going to leak the rumor that we've been flirting with the idea of them taking over, but then wait a year before actually handing over control.

Where have you been?  They've tag teamed  control of these boards for years.

[Benny B]

Where have you been?  They've tag teamed  control of these boards for years.

Yep.... that's what I've figured all along.  SoCal is Chicos, Rocky is Hoop... and so the question becomes, does Hilltopper know?

[dgies9156]

Geez, get over it people and let's move on.

Buzz gets a one-game suspension for lack of supervisory control over his basketball staff. He is being held accountable for his mistakes. Isn't that what he speaks with his players about every day? Isn't that the reason he handed out several suspensions during the season last year?

Isn't accountability at least part of the reason why Todd Mayo wasn't with the team this summer?

Basketball coaches to some degree are teachers. Buzz and Marquette are teaching an important life lesson. No one, not even a successful head basketball coach, is above the rules. Sooner or later, you will get caught. In Scott Monarch's case he got fired for lying -- about the same punishment my corporate leadership would hand down to me or any of my subordinates if we did the same thing. And, if the lying was a compliance matter, as it was at Marquette, our leadership would be held accountable.

I admire the way Marquette dealt with this matter swiftly and firmly. Penance has been made and absolution granted. Father Pilarz has told Buzz to go forth and sin no more and I'm guessing he won't. That said, it is time to move on.

[hoops12]

First, this is not about a simple suspension like some of you claim. Buzz did nothing wrong in this case. His assistant coach made an error in judgement, and he was fired. However, don't any of you wonder why there was a buzz after the season on how Larry and Buzz didn't get along. Then Larry had some pretty interesting comments regarding Buzz as well. Then over the next few months there has been an interesting pattern.

Soon after the season, Tony Bedford decides to leave the program for North Texas and brings some recruits/players as well. Interesting! Then, all of the sudden, Aki Collins goes and takes an assistant job in the same conference. He is now at Memphis. Why? Then, low and behold, Buzz's best friend loses his job for minor offenses, because the "athletic department felt" he was lying to them repeatedly before he told them the truth. Okay. Nothing curious at all about any of this. It was just cut and dry, right?

Buzz might stay, and I sure hope he does, but I know that he has had a tough year with Larry and the new president of the university. You can call it what you want, but Buzz is a great man, and they are making him out to be some kind of bad apple. He has taken a shot at some kids with tough backgrounds and he has worked to have them become good people and good citizens as well as basketball players. To me, that is part of what Marquette University is about. Buzz has embraced this university and their mission. However, a few on the team have lost their way at times. Buzz has taken some flack for that, but the successes outweigh the negatives. When you take a shot on kids with tough backgrounds, sometimes it will not work out.

We wouldn't have national media writers like Goodman saying the things he's been saying if Buzz was a happy man. Buzz is a good friend with him. You can say all you want, but the fact is, Buzz is an incredible fit for this job, and we would have a very difficult time filling his shoes. Larry has to do his job, but he also has to let Buzz do his without looking over his shoulder. No one in their right mind can do a job well if someone is always looking over their shoulder and looking for what is wrong, instead of what is right.

Just my two cents!

Go MU!

[Litehouse]

What has Goodman been saying? His comments seem more like "just the facts mam" variety.

[ATL MU Warrior]

You continue to be an embarrassment to the fanbase of MU.  What fanbase has a fan who is blowing the horn and championing the cause for its best coach in 40 years to be nudged out the door for having an assistant who gave a T-shirt and ride to a kid, flirted with SMU job, has had to suspend players during and after the season (for the first time ever in his 4 year MU career coinciding with the arrival of new President and AD, and said AD already threw Buzz under the bus to the local media in Journal Sentine interview in March.)

You are either too stupid to read, too caught up in your self-righteous paranoid delusions, or too busy corresponding with Buzz and all your dozens of athlete friends over email to think correctly.  Please point out to me where I did anything you claim above.  Closest I came was to say that if Buzz indeed gets fired I am sure he will have done something to deserve it. 

I don't hope he gets fired.  I don't support him being fired IF -- and here's the important part -- all that's come to light is all there is.  I largely agree with you that all these things, considered indivicually, are not a big deal.  What I wholeheartedly disagree with is that this is all some dastardly plot by the AD/Admin to get rid of Buzz.

[StillAWarrior]

For what it's worth, my immediate reaction after reading Buzz's comments following Monarch's firing and the announcement of Buzz's suspension was that Buzz was genuinely and personally disappointed in Monarch and that he seemed to be stepping up and being accountable just like he demands from his players.  I honestly don't think that this is a big deal.  I think Buzz is pissed that his good friend screwed up and then lied about it.  If Buzz is pissed about his suspension (and I personally don't think that he is), then his whole "character revealed" schtick is total BS.

[Tugg Speedman]

For what it's worth, my immediate reaction after reading Buzz's comments following Monarch's firing and the announcement of Buzz's suspension was that Buzz was genuinely and personally disappointed in Monarch and that he seemed to be stepping up and being accountable just like he demands from his players.  I honestly don't think that this is a big deal.  I think Buzz is pissed that his good friend screwed up and then lied about it.  If Buzz is pissed about his suspension (and I personally don't think that he is), then his whole "character revealed" schtick is total BS.

Buzz can/should use his suspension as a teachable moment for the team and hopefully start a run of at least 365 days where MU does not have to issue a Friday afternoon press releases about the basketball program.

If that happens (no Friday PRs) then all the supposed tension between Buzz and LW will pass.

[mu03eng]

Have any MU basketball players missed games for underage drinking?

You need to make it apples to apples.

No but it appears basketball players missed games for NOT drinking at a bar(West Virginia)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No but it appears basketball players missed games for NOT drinking at a bar(West Virginia)

Speculative.

I know you are trying to connect the dots and make some conclusions, but I'm afraid you don't have enough evidence to support your claim that the AD is harder on basketball players than other athletes.

You have some third-hand knowledge of 2 other athletes drinking, and you have the weird WVU suspensions, which we don't know much about.

Not exactly a smoking gun.

Also, as mentioned before "fair" in terms of athletic programs is a relative term. The basketball players receive a lot better/more benefits than other athletes. That doesn't change the basic code of conduct, but certainly they have to understand than their actions are far more visible than the indoor track team.

[Rubie Q]

Speculative.

I know you are trying to connect the dots and make some conclusions, but I'm afraid you don't have enough evidence to support your claim that the AD is harder on basketball players than other athletes.

You have some third-hand knowledge of 2 other athletes drinking, and you have the weird WVU suspensions, which we don't know much about.

Yeah, I don't think it was ever confirmed the WVU suspensions had anything to do with the underage-in-bar citations. Jamail, Juan, and D. Wilson got cited but weren't suspended, while DJO and Junior weren't cited but got suspended. Something doesn't add up there.

[Pakuni]

No but it appears basketball players missed games for NOT drinking at a bar(West Virginia)

If that's the case, why were some of the players cited at 720 (Blue, Mayo) suspended for the WVU game, while others (Jones, Anderson, Wilson) appear to have incurred no punishment at all?

And why were two players not cited (DJO, Cadougan) suspended? In fact, I don't recall any accounts out there indicating Cadougan was even there that night, though I suppose it's possible.

And why did the university choose a game nearly a month after the citations to issue apparently arbitrary suspensions, when they could have done so in any of the six games before WVU?  Especially in light of the fact that Buzz says the 720 incident was handled by the administration on Jan. 30?

Lots of holes in your theory.

[mu03eng]

I agree with the naysayers, I have more holes in my theory than a slice of swiss cheese, but so far I haven't seen anything more plausible that connects the dots than what I have.

As far as the Junior/DJO non-citation but suspension, I assumed that was because they were there(they were), but 21(so no citation) and were suspended for showing bad judgement in taking the team there.  I also think that certain players are "targets" as perceived consistent trouble makers, and I'll let you do the math on how that pertains to the 720 incident and suspensions.

I recognize this is all speculation and trying to connect dots.  Nobody has the complete picture, but the picture I see concerns me, so I voiced it on the message board.  I'm open to changing my opinion if someone has one that better connects the dots, but I haven't seen that yet.

At the end of the day, I hate all this drama, I have seen nothing from Buzz to date that makes me think he is anything less than the perfect leader for this team, and I see signs that LW with either direction or permission from the administration is making life difficult for Buzz for some reason.  I am speculating that is because LW/Admin has decided that Buzz is a square peg in a round hole with their vision for the university and I disagree with that.  They have decided they will either make him fit their vision or make it untenable for him to stay.  That is of course their prerogative as the current leaders of the university, but if true, something I have a fundamental disagreement with.

I see a different standard applied both academically and behaviorally to the Men's bball team and the rest of the athletic teams and that concerns me as well.  I generally, have not been impressed with LW to date, but I will remain open minded that my opinion/conclusions could be wrong.  I simply haven't see any evidence that would change those opinions yet.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree with the naysayers, I have more holes in my theory than a slice of swiss cheese, but so far I haven't seen anything more plausible that connects the dots than what I have.

As far as the Junior/DJO non-citation but suspension, I assumed that was because they were there(they were), but 21(so no citation) and were suspended for showing bad judgement in taking the team there.  I also think that certain players are "targets" as perceived consistent trouble makers, and I'll let you do the math on how that pertains to the 720 incident and suspensions.

I recognize this is all speculation and trying to connect dots.  Nobody has the complete picture, but the picture I see concerns me, so I voiced it on the message board.  I'm open to changing my opinion if someone has one that better connects the dots, but I haven't seen that yet.

At the end of the day, I hate all this drama, I have seen nothing from Buzz to date that makes me think he is anything less than the perfect leader for this team, and I see signs that LW with either direction or permission from the administration is making life difficult for Buzz for some reason.  I am speculating that is because LW/Admin has decided that Buzz is a square peg in a round hole with their vision for the university and I disagree with that.  They have decided they will either make him fit their vision or make it untenable for him to stay.  That is of course their prerogative as the current leaders of the university, but if true, something I have a fundamental disagreement with.

I see a different standard applied both academically and behaviorally to the Men's bball team and the rest of the athletic teams and that concerns me as well.  I generally, have not been impressed with LW to date, but I will remain open minded that my opinion/conclusions could be wrong.  I simply haven't see any evidence that would change those opinions yet.

I have to be honest, it seems like you are choosing the dots you want to connect, in order to fit the conclusion that LW/MU aren't fans of Buzz.

- Basketball players have been suspended, but other athletes haven't. This doesn't prove the athletic department is out to get Buzz Williams and the basketball team. Not even close, really.

- LW and Buzz seemed tight after the WVU win, but a lot of people focus on LW's newspaper quotes and assume it's some sort of strained relationship because LW is a dick.

- Buzz recently got a raise (presumably approved by the current BOT), but the narrative is that the BOT isn't happy with him.

- Buzz is possibly the world's biggest networker, so of course he talked to SMU. It could have been something, it could have been nothing. We know Buzz is always recruiting, so he might always be looking for opportunities.

If you pick and chose the events you want to focus on, you can write any story you want... which certainly applies to me as well. I'm trying to read the events before I write my conclusion... and the truth is: I just don't know. 

[brewcity77]

- Buzz is possibly the world's biggest networker, so of course he talked to SMU. It could have been something, it could have been nothing. We know Buzz is always recruiting, so he might always be looking for opportunities.

Regarding this, in retrospect, it sure seems like this might have been Buzz pushing for them to hire Benford. As Benford got a HC gig shortly thereafter, it seems far more likely that was the case than him being ready to jump ship himself. But of course, that doesn't fit the narrative...

[mu03eng]

Regarding this, in retrospect, it sure seems like this might have been Buzz pushing for them to hire Benford. As Benford got a HC gig shortly thereafter, it seems far more likely that was the case than him being ready to jump ship himself. But of course, that doesn't fit the narrative...

Listen, I don't want there to be a negative narrative, I'm an eternal optimist.  I look at everything in total that I have, add it up and see if it comes up negative or positive.  Based on what I know, right now the situation seems more negative than positive.  We'll see if that changes.

 

[MerrittsMustache]

Listen, I don't want there to be a negative narrative, I'm an eternal optimist.  I look at everything in total that I have, add it up and see if it comes up negative or positive.  Based on what I know, right now the situation seems more negative than positive.  We'll see if that changes.
 

If I track all of my expenditures but ignore the fact that I have a steady income, does that mean I'm in debt?

[NersEllenson]

You are either too stupid to read, too caught up in your self-righteous paranoid delusions, or too busy corresponding with Buzz and all your dozens of athlete friends over email to think correctly.  Please point out to me where I did anything you claim above.  Closest I came was to say that if Buzz indeed gets fired I am sure he will have done something to deserve it. 

I don't hope he gets fired.  I don't support him being fired IF -- and here's the important part -- all that's come to light is all there is.  I largely agree with you that all these things, considered indivicually, are not a big deal.  What I wholeheartedly disagree with is that this is all some dastardly plot by the AD/Admin to get rid of Buzz.

Owe you an apology ATL - got you mixed up with AnotherMU84 - who gave us the gem of a thread "I think most have this wrong, Buzz got off easy and he knows it." 

BTW - I haven't ever said that there is some dastardly plot by the AD/Admin to get rid of Buzz - all of said is that the the conduct/behavior/quotes shown thus far by Larry Williams haven't reflected a great deal of common sense, and have definitely created a work environment that is radically different and less enjoyable than what Buzz enjoyed under Wild and Cottingham.  Lastly, I am not that outraged that Monarch was fired - yet I do think the suspension of Buzz for 1 game was overreaching. 

[brewcity77]

Listen, I don't want there to be a negative narrative, I'm an eternal optimist.  I look at everything in total that I have, add it up and see if it comes up negative or positive.  Based on what I know, right now the situation seems more negative than positive.  We'll see if that changes.

I understand, not trying to single you out completely. Just fed up with what this board has become in the past few days, trying to make sure we keep the positive, "not that big a deal" perspectives in mind, too.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Owe you an apology ATL - got you mixed up with AnotherMU84 - who gave us the gem of a thread "I think most have this wrong, Buzz got off easy and he knows it." 

BTW - I haven't ever said that there is some dastardly plot by the AD/Admin to get rid of Buzz - all of said is that the the conduct/behavior/quotes shown thus far by Larry Williams haven't reflected a great deal of common sense, and have definitely created a work environment that is radically different and less enjoyable than what Buzz enjoyed under Wild and Cottingham.  Lastly, I am not that outraged that Monarch was fired - yet I do think the suspension of Buzz for 1 game was overreaching. 

No worries.  I got a little carried away in my response so apologies back to you as well. 

Maybe the above is true, maybe it isn't.  If it is, hopefully Buzz can deal with it, stays at MU and keeps us on the trajectory we are currently on.  If it's not, then we've been wasting a lot of time and energy on our respective rants and raves. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Listen, I don't want there to be a negative narrative, I'm an eternal optimist.  I look at everything in total that I have, add it up and see if it comes up negative or positive.  Based on what I know, right now the situation seems more negative than positive.  We'll see if that changes.

 

That's fair stance.

However, you made some pretty bold accusations that the athletic department is singling out the basketball program unfairly. I'm afraid you're off the reservation with that one. We don't have anything substantial to support that.

I'm sorry, but suspensions/lack of suspensions doesn't really tell the story.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Owe you an apology ATL - got you mixed up with AnotherMU84 - who gave us the gem of a thread "I think most have this wrong, Buzz got off easy and he knows it." 

BTW - I haven't ever said that there is some dastardly plot by the AD/Admin to get rid of Buzz - all of said is that the the conduct/behavior/quotes shown thus far by Larry Williams haven't reflected a great deal of common sense, and have definitely created a work environment that is radically different and less enjoyable than what Buzz enjoyed under Wild and Cottingham.  Lastly, I am not that outraged that Monarch was fired - yet I do think the suspension of Buzz for 1 game was overreaching. 

You know, everybody goes back to the quotes as some sort of evidence, but nobody talks about the Buzz and Larry high fives after the WVU game.

Just sayin'.

[dgies9156]

Ok -- Final thoughts.

1) The problems with Scott Monarch are unusual for Marquette. All through the Al era and even when things were bad, we played by the rules. Jesuit Catholic institutions tend to encourage honesty as a core value. When we became part of the NCAA, we promised to abide by rules and regulations and to tell the truth about our activities. Mr. Monarch did not and put the university in an embarrassing situation. He should be gone.

2) As to our players, folks, they're generally between 18 and 22 years of age. They make youthful errors in judgment. How many of you who went to Marquette can say you never went into a bar before your age permitted you to (excepting some of us who were able to drink at 18)? How many of you were in compromising situations with members of the opposite sex that could have gone real bad real fast? OK, I know you won't admit it, but those of us who lived in McCormick or Schroeder know better.

3) Nobody is condoning Item 2 in any way. But for crying out loud, we run a good program and have run a good program. These things happened to a lot of coaches. It's how we fix it and avoid it that really matters.

I'm feeling good about the state of the program for a simple reason. Lots of people are suddenly gunning for it. Everytime one of our guys even weaves and hints at being out of line, hysteria breaks out. It's as if we're in the 1970s again and the faculty is questioning why the university's highest paid employee is the basketball coach.

GO MU!!!!

[mu03eng]

If I track all of my expenditures but ignore the fact that I have a steady income, does that mean I'm in debt?

I don't care how you screw up your finances   I don't ignore the income, but I do think the income is less than the expenditures right now.

[mu03eng]

That's fair stance.

However, you made some pretty bold accusations that the athletic department is singling out the basketball program unfairly. I'm afraid you're off the reservation with that one. We don't have anything substantial to support that.

I'm sorry, but suspensions/lack of suspensions doesn't really tell the story.

I still stand by the statement, from both a behavioral and academic standpoint, I have had people in a position to know and that I trust, that there is an inconsistency of application across the athletic department.  That is of concern to me.

Don't confuse me with someone who thinks LW is evil and is destroying us because he's a domer.  I think LW and admin has made a decision and is applying it.  I don't agree with the stance if true.

So you think there is no way that LW/admin is targeting the basketball team because of some sort of concerns?  If you don't think so, that's fine and we'll agree to disagree.  I just look at the evidence in total and think there is something afoot.