Marquette fires Scott Monarch. Suspends HC Buzz Williams for one League game

[Blackhat]

Do we know who reported it to MU or NCAA?

Sounds like MU went to quite the length to disprove Monarch.   Checking video cameras, etc.

[Goose]

I agree with Sultan that you have to be an idiot to not know basketball program means a great deal to the university. Question is does Fr. P think he has better option than Buzz to continue the success? New leaders often have different ideas than the old ones and that is the issue IMO. Biggest cloud over Buzz remains the VB issue and how it was handled. Agree with me or not, but I think hard to argue that as long as Buzz is coach the VB issue is open season for outsiders to question program.

[4everwarriors]

The current administration did not hire Buzz. The implications are self-explanatory.

[cheebs09]

Even if MU did not make the tournament, why would Buzz leave with the 414 trio coming in? I am not worried about having a bad year. I am worried about the next 18-22 year old doing something stupid.

The lucky to make the tournament was in reference to if Buzz left due to the administration and being worried about the caliber of coach that would want to come here if the administration is being unreasonable. For the record, I have no idea if they are or not, but based on this board it seems like a possibility.

[Litehouse]

Biggest cloud over Buzz remains the VB issue and how it was handled. Agree with me or not, but I think hard to argue that as long as Buzz is coach the VB issue is open season for outsiders to question program.

You mean the fight outside QDoba?  How was that handled poorly?

[brewcity77]

Biggest cloud over Buzz remains the VB issue and how it was handled. Agree with me or not, but I think hard to argue that as long as Buzz is coach the VB issue is open season for outsiders Badger Fans to question program.

No one outside of Madison cares one single iota about the Vander Orange scenario. No one. In all honesty, I'd guess that if you said "Vander Orange" to 98% of college basketball fans, they wouldn't even get the reference.

I like you, Goose, but this is a case of making Wormwood out of a molehill. And as far as the other Vander issues, again, he's kept his nose clean for the most part for the past year. Unless you constantly troll the Vadger websites, you won't hear boo about any of this. And who cares what those idiots say? They think that basketball was invented in 1994.

[Goose]

Litehouse
I do not think ANYONE cares about the issue on Wells St.. The alleged sexual assault and handling of assault has left a longer lasting impression with some. Truthfully I have no feelings on the topic that I would care to share, but others do share their thoughts on the topic.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This situation is very interesting in studying the reactions on this board, mainly because the Catholic background on stressing an objective morality.  Here are a couple of scenarios...how would you feel?...let's assume there was a "no tolerance edict" in place from the past ills of the program (which to many is pretty well known or assumed).

• A signed high school senior who has been admitted to MU, comes to MU in May to play in an open gym, check out the school before he starts summer school. Two assistants have quit or are looking at new jobs, a staffer has also quit.  The head coach and one staffer soon to be assistant are out on the road recruiting. Monarch is in town to supervise the program.  The recruit forgets his basketball gear and Monarch loans him what would be his MU allotment in a couple of weeks when he officially starts school so he can play, perhaps assuming the kid will just store the gear in his locker-to be.  Monarch learns at the end of the weekend that the kid doesn't have a ride home, so he drives him home, but the kid forgets to leave his gear at MU.  Kid shows up at MU a couple of weeks later for summer school and AD staff notice he already has MU issued gear.  Monarch tells his lies, denying, and cameras confirm the opposite.
• Second scenario:  A transfer commits to MU.  Most of the above scenario the same...but the kid flies from AZ so he doesn't bring his packed gear.  After his visit, same gear scenario, but Monarch finds out that he also needs to get to very ill relative's house in an adjoining state for the weekend, so Monarch drives him...gear gets noticed on return, and then Monarch repeats his mortal sin of lying.
• Third scenario:  Another JUCO player from Texas (Monarch's home state) decides to take the trip up north to actually visit the school he committed to. Forgets gear as it is packed back home due to his soon to be return visit to start school.  Same scenario but Monarch drives him to O'Hare in Chicago as American flies there to Dallas as the kid hasn't made any ride arrangements, coming from a rural area.  Kid returns, AD staff and Monarch repeat the same scenario. AD and outside counsel quiz kid, there is talk off sitting him out games and NCAA violations, and kid gets stressed and worried and talks...and decides another program now is best.
• A recruit comes up from Chicago...has not committed, is on an unofficial, Monarch gives him gear and drives him back to Chicago while recruiting him the whole way. Monarch lies and the cycle is repeated.

Do all these scenarios bother each of you equally?  All are secondary, and all involve Monarch lying.  In all, Monarch deserves to be fired as a result.  Only the last one would be a serious black mark on Buzz in my mind.

[NersEllenson]

When you go to bed at night, are you scared that the "jealous academia" might jump out of the closet and beat you with their books?

Weird...as are most of your posts.

[NersEllenson]

Wrong!  This is the Penn State/Joe Pa reference from a few pages ago.

... welcome to 2012 where the head coach is punished for anything that goes wrong.  He is expected to set a standard so that assistants do not violate rules and lie and players to do get ticketed by the local police.

Well I sure hope you happen to be the manager of people and one day one of your staff gets in a fight when provoked and antagonized, or lies, and people start calling for your head and suggesting you deserve to get fired.

Pretty big leap you have taken 84 to think that because of the Penn State situation, all scenarios of player and coach conduct are to be looked at through the same lens.

[NersEllenson]

Newbill.  And I guess you think Buzz's mantra should be "the buck stops somewhere...over there..."


It isn't about necessarily being "jelous," it is about wanting a coach to oversee a program that is less in the headlines for off the court issues.  I don't think anyone is arguing that basketball isn't important to MU.  Under this administration they went deep into the bank for Isaac Chew for instance.  I think they want off the court accountability in return.

So there is exactly 1 off the court issue that you can pin on Buzz - Newbill?  I've never said the administration doesn't care about basketball.  They'd be totally idiotic to not care about it.  But, perhaps like you, and others here - they seem to think coaches or people should be able to exert an uncanny ability to be present 24x7 with another 13 human beings and ensure they don't ever make a decision that gets them in trouble.   Step back for a minute and think of how ridiculous this thought process is.  The administration can bring in another coach, and I can guarantee within 4 years, there will be some off court issues....now nobody may care, because the team could be so irrelevant that it isn't even newsworthy.

[GGGG]

So there is exactly 1 off the court issue that you can pin on Buzz - Newbill?  I've never said the administration doesn't care about basketball.  They'd be totally idiotic to not care about it.  But, perhaps like you, and others here - they seem to think coaches or people should be able to exert an uncanny ability to be present 24x7 with another 13 human beings and ensure they don't ever make a decision that gets them in trouble.   Step back for a minute and think of how ridiculous this thought process is.  The administration can bring in another coach, and I can guarantee within 4 years, there will be some off court issues....now nobody may care, because the team could be so irrelevant that it isn't even newsworthy.

There have been plenty of issues related to Buzz's program, that have been detailed here over and over.  I happen to think that Buzz holds responsibility for many of these, even if he wasn't directly involved....like many leaders do.  I can see why the MU administration wants to cut down on those and is going to hold Buzz responsible at some level.

[NersEllenson]

There have been plenty of issues related to Buzz's program, that have been detailed here over and over.  I happen to think that Buzz holds responsibility for many of these, even if he wasn't directly involved....like many leaders do.  I can see why the MU administration wants to cut down on those and is going to hold Buzz responsible at some level.

Issues that don't go on at a vast majority of Top 25 basketball or football schools?  Hell for that matter even Top 100, Division 1, 2 and 3?  Which issues are so outlandish and alarming that give you concern?  Do you subscribe to guilty until proven innocent mindset with regard to the sex assault?  Think MPD and Public Safety just found no probable cause, because there wasn't any probably cause?

But out of curiosity...please - which other issues besides Newbill do you feel Buzz holds responsibility for? 

[GGGG]

I have already answered your question.  I am not going to essentially type the same response because you don't like what I have written.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Issues that don't go on at a vast majority of Top 25 basketball or football schools?  Hell for that matter even Top 100, Division 1, 2 and 3?  Which issues are so outlandish and alarming that give you concern?  Do you subscribe to guilty until proven innocent mindset with regard to the sex assault?  Think MPD and Public Safety just found no probable cause, because there wasn't any probably cause?

But out of curiosity...please - which other issues besides Newbill do you feel Buzz holds responsibility for? 

[NersEllenson]

I have already answered your question.  I am not going to essentially type the same response because you don't like what I have written.

No Sultan, you haven't answered my question - you said Newbill - in response to my question asking you which of the off court incidents does Buzz Williams have personal control over?  So what off court incidents does Buzz Williams have personal control over?  Do you truly expect another human being to be able to exert such influence over 18-22 year old men that they NEVER, ever, ever make a mistake??

Is it that hard for you to acknowledge perhaps just maybe, for just once in your Scoop career - that your position is wrong? 

[GGGG]

No Sultan, you haven't answered my question - you said Newbill - in response to my question asking you which of the off court incidents does Buzz Williams have personal control over?  So what off court incidents does Buzz Williams have personal control over?  Do you truly expect another human being to be able to exert such influence over 18-22 year old men that they NEVER, ever, ever make a mistake??

Reading....Is....Fundamental....

"There have been plenty of issues related to Buzz's program, that have been detailed here over and over."

If you don't understand exactly what I am referring to, I can't help that.  But I am not going to engage in a silly debate about each issue because you make stuff up to "prove" your points...

..."jilted lover" to excuse the sexual assault allegations
..."Buzz emailed me" to ensure that the JS comments offended him
...and now exuberant high-fiving to excuse the fact that he was celebrating with his mortal enemy

Laughable.

Is it that hard for you to acknowledge perhaps just maybe, for just once in your Scoop career - that your position is wrong? 

I have been wrong plenty of times.  But at least, I don't make sh*t up ...

[NersEllenson]

Reading....Is....Fundamental....

"There have been plenty of issues related to Buzz's program, that have been detailed here over and over."

If you don't understand exactly what I am referring to, I can't help that.  But I am not going to engage in a silly debate about each issue because you make stuff up to "prove" your points...

..."jilted lover" to excuse the sexual assault allegations
..."Buzz emailed me" to ensure that the JS comments offended him
...and now exuberant high-fiving to excuse the fact that he was celebrating with his mortal enemy

Laughable.


I have been wrong plenty of times.  But at least, I don't make sh*t up ...

And at least I don't act as if I'm a program insider, unlike you who only passes along information you get from being a premium content subscriber to IWB's board!!   You are no more of a program insider than any of the posters here yet try to come off as one.  Talk about a laughable!!

Almost as laughable as not being able to answer the question - what program issues that Buzz has personal control over other than Newbill would you like to see corrected??

Is Buzz supposed to get in the middle of the sex act between his player and the alleged victim?  Why even cite that as an example?!!  Do you subscribe to the guilty until proven innocent theory - because you are aware there were no charges brought against the players, correct?  But hey, blame it on Buzz because he wasn't there to intervene between the dynamics of a relationship between 18-22 year old college students. 

Give it up already Sultan - you really are embarrassing yourself in this thread. 

[real chili 83]

Mods.  Just a suggestion....time to lock this thread down.

[GGGG]

And at least I don't act as if I'm a program insider, unlike you who only passes along information you get from being a premium content subscriber to IWB's board!!   You are no more of a program insider than any of the posters here yet try to come off as one.  Talk about a laughable!!

Don't make accusations that you can't back up.  What exactly have I shared from IWB's board over here?  Seriously...there are a number of people here that are members of that board, so they should be able to back you up.  Go ahead.  If you are going to make an accusation, back it up with proof...or back down.

Or is this simply another made up "fact" to "prove" your "point?"

The only thing I claimed to know is that a player was in serious academic trouble.  I was right about that, but I knew about that long before I even joined IWB's board.  (I only joined the premium board in May or June.)  In fact, the "source" I had on that is pretty laughable.  I could give you 1,000 guesses and you would never get it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Well I sure hope you happen to be the manager of people and one day one of your staff gets in a fight when provoked and antagonized, or lies, and people start calling for your head and suggesting you deserve to get fired.

Pretty big leap you have taken 84 to think that because of the Penn State situation, all scenarios of player and coach conduct are to be looked at through the same lens.

Ners, please try and keep up. The world is changing and you're stuck in the past.  Go back three pages or so as this was all explained.  College coaches now live by new rules.  These new rules have caused bobby petrino, Bruce pearl and Jim tressel to become former coaches

In case you too lazy, read this ...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33422.msg406558#msg406558

[ATWizJr]

Ners, please try and keep up. The world is chaning and your stuck in the past.  Go back three pages or so as this was all explained.  College coaches now live by new rules.  These new rules have caused bobby petrine, Bruce pearl and Jim tressel to become former coaches

In case you too lazy, read this ...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33422.msg406558#msg406558


84 try to keep up.... your and you're are two different parts of speech.

[lab_warrior]

Ners, please try and keep up. The world is chaning and your stuck in the past.  Go back three pages or so as this was all explained.  College coaches now live by new rules.  These new rules have caused bobby petrine, Bruce pearl and Jim tressel to become former coaches

In case you too lazy, read this ...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33422.msg406558#msg406558


84 try to keep up.... your and you're are two different parts of speech.

...says the guy who doesn't know how to correctly use the quote posts feature.  Nicely done.  Try to keep up.  Use the [/quote] to end a quote, and start you own.

[KenoshaWarrior]

Why is Newbill considered a situation.

So we got a recruit who was only a two star recruit and he aint playing well in open gyms.   Jamil Wilson comes along who will have a bigger impact so we drop a recruit for a better one?   I dont get what the problem is.  We are a big time program and this happens all the time in big time programs. 

[SoCalwarrior]

We've jumped the shark. 14 pages and everything has been said... multiple times.  The other threads related to this post will remain open, but to those driving this bus, take a breather.