Marquette fires Scott Monarch. Suspends HC Buzz Williams for one League game

[Lennys Tap]

1. Has there been a widespread call for Buzz Williams' firing around here?
2. Is an SEC football program really what you want Marquette to model itself after?
3. Only four of those Alabama violations stemmed from football, none related to giving something to a recruit and there's no indication anyone lied to cover it up. Apples/oranges.

Please indicate where in my post I said anything about "a widespread call for Buzz Williams' firing around here". If I or anyone else had written something anywhere close to as misleading as this in response to a post of yours you'd go batspit.

[mu_hilltopper]

Tell me this, internet nerd brothers.   What do you think was Monarch's motivation to cover up this "secondary violation"?

[Rubie Q]

Tell me this, internet nerd brothers.   What do you think was Monarch's motivation to cover up this "secondary violation"?

That's the part that scares the crap out of me, personally.

[Lennys Tap]

I'll answer these for Lenny ...

1. Absolutely No one has called for Buzz's head. 

BS. KnightCommission has absolutely called for his head.

And then there's the other deep thinkers who believe Buzz should be laying prostrate at LW's feet thanking him for saving his job in spite of all the terrible offenses he's committed (that would be primarily you). I guess you're not technically calling for his head - seems you think one foot and a few fingers will do - for now.

[Tugg Speedman]

BS. KnightCommission has absolutely called for his head.

And then there's the other deep thinkers who believe Buzz should be laying prostrate at LW's feet thanking him for saving his job in spite of all the terrible offenses he's committed (that would be primarily you). I guess you're not technically calling for his head - seems you think one foot and a few fingers will do - for now.

Correct, I'm not calling for his head.  So you're left with Knight Commission and no one else for your premise that "everyone" is calling for his head.

[Lennys Tap]

Tell me this, internet nerd brothers.   What do you think was Monarch's motivation to cover up this "secondary violation"?

Topper, I too have pondered this. Most logical - something that's been communicated from the administration to the basketball staff (either directly or by way of a general hostile attitude) made Monarch think that he would get the axe even if he told the truth.

The other possibility, I suppose, is that there are major violations that Buzz, LW and Fr Pilarz are hoping get lost in the shuffle after they made Monarch the sacrificial lamb.

My money's on the first choice

[Lennys Tap]

Correct, I'm not calling for his head.  So you're left with Knight Commission and no one else for your premise that "everyone" is calling for his head.

Nice, except for the inconvenient fact that that was never MY premise, it was a made up premise attributed to me by Pakuni.

[Rubie Q]

Topper, I too have pondered this. Most logical - something that's been communicated from the administration to the basketball staff (either directly or by way of a general hostile attitude) made Monarch think that he would get the axe even if he told the truth.

The other possibility, I suppose, is that there are major violations that Buzz, LW and Fr Pilarz are hoping get lost in the shuffle after they made Monarch the sacrificial lamb.

My money's on the first choice

Or he figured he could get away with it, or that it was so insignificant that he wouldn't lose his job about it, even if he lied.

Or he figured he was safe because he's Buzz's best friend.

And so on.

There's like 18 possibilities for why he would do this. I really hope this was just in error in judgment (as Buzz put it) on Monarch's part.

[The Process]

Tell me this, internet nerd brothers.   What do you think was Monarch's motivation to cover up this "secondary violation"?

My guess is that he was too embarrassed to admit that he gave a recruit this:

[Pakuni]

Please indicate where in my post I said anything about "a widespread call for Buzz Williams' firing around here". If I or anyone else had written something anywhere close to as misleading as this in response to a post of yours you'd go batspit.

You asked when Nick Saban was going to be fired in an attempt to analogize Marquette's handling of secondary violations by its assistant with Alabama's handling of secondary violations by an assistant. Of course, you conveniently left out the whole "lying to the bosses and investigators" part that make the situations totally different.

I see you've somehow later managed to blame Larry Williams for that also. Poor, poor Scott Monarch was forced to lie by that dastardly Domer.
For the record, Larry Williams also shot Kennedy (both of them), broke up the Beatles, staged the moon landing in a San Fernando Valley sound stage and invented the hanging chad.

[MerrittsMustache]

Tell me this, internet nerd brothers.   What do you think was Monarch's motivation to cover up this "secondary violation"?

My assumption is that he did it, didn't plan on mentioning it to anyone (especially after the MU admins tightened the reins a little bit) but someone got word of it, he was caught off guard when confronted, lied about it and then stubbornly stuck with the lie as it spiraled out of control.

It's like when you were a student and the girl you were dating angrily asks if you were just flirting with some other girl. The initial reaction is to say, "What? No! Come on." Then when she presses more, you stick to your lie because there's no going back even though it's obvious that you're lying.

[NersEllenson]

You asked when Nick Saban was going to be fired in an attempt to analogize Marquette's handling of secondary violations by its assistant with Alabama's handling of secondary violations by an assistant. Of course, you conveniently left out the whole "lying to the bosses and investigators" part that make the situations totally different.

I see you've somehow later managed to blame Larry Williams for that also. Poor, poor Scott Monarch was forced to lie by that dastardly Domer.
For the record, Larry Williams also shot Kennedy (both of them), broke up the Beatles, staged the moon landing in a San Fernando Valley sound stage and invented the hanging chad.

What has Larry Williams done and accomplished at MU that makes you think he's immune to the criticism?  What skins on the wall does he have?  Can you find another example of an AD 90 days on the job, who to the local paper, pretty much says he's going to help his coach become better, that his coach ties his tie too tight, and will either have his head explode or will irrevocably offend somebody - all said about a guy who has 3.5 years in, which had culminated in 3 NCAA births, 1 Sweet 16 and another that followed a month later.  Buzz has earned the benefit of the doubt.  Larry simply has created doubt.

I look forward to your reply.

[Lennys Tap]

You asked when Nick Saban was going to be fired in an attempt to analogize Marquette's handling of secondary violations

Of course I said fire OR suspend, so this is the second time you've lied by omission. How many times before it becomes a fireable offense?

[westcoastwarrior]

I keep pondering this scenario too...the thing that keeps going through my mind...if Buzz and Scott are such good friends (which we all know they are)...you would think there would have been some conversation between the two of them on how to manage this issue.  You would think when Scott was getting probed on the issue he would have called Buzz to get an idea how to address the question.  What if he did talk with Buzz and Buzz said "deny it".... And then it spiraled out of control?  If they did talk...you would think the answer would have been "come clean" with the fact.  The whole thing just does not make sense in my opinion.

[Lennys Tap]

I see you've somehow later managed to blame Larry Williams for that also. Poor, poor Scott Monarch was forced to lie by that dastardly Domer.

More pure, unadulterated BS. Monarch wasn't "forced to lie by Larry Williams" nor did I EVER say he was. Monarch made that decision. That he MAY have (rightly or wrongly) thought he was toast if he owned up doesn't excuse the lie or mean he was forced into it.

[real chili 83]

I keep pondering this scenario too...the thing that keeps going through my mind...if Buzz and Scott are such good friends (which we all know they are)...you would think there would have been some conversation between the two of them on how to manage this issue.  You would think when Scott was getting probed on the issue he would have called Buzz to get an idea how to address the question.  What if he did talk with Buzz and Buzz said "deny it".... And then it spiraled out of control?  If they did talk...you would think the answer would have been "come clean" with the fact.  The whole thing just does not make sense in my opinion.

If the investigation was handled properly, everyone involved would have been told up front to not talk amongst themselves. That would preclude Buzz and Monarch would not have talked about this until the investigation was over.

[GGGG]

What has Larry Williams done and accomplished at MU that makes you think he's immune to the criticism?  What skins on the wall does he have?  Can you find another example of an AD 90 days on the job, who to the local paper, pretty much says he's going to help his coach become better, that his coach ties his tie too tight, and will either have his head explode or will irrevocably offend somebody - all said about a guy who has 3.5 years in, which had culminated in 3 NCAA births, 1 Sweet 16 and another that followed a month later.  Buzz has earned the benefit of the doubt.  Larry simply has created doubt.

I can answer this.  While Buzz has been successful on the court, he has also "earned" additional oversight because of problems off the court, many of which were completely within his control.  This latest incident simply reinforces that notion.

And I will point out...again...that while you are fixated on Larry Williams, he is doing pretty much exactly what the leadership of the University *wants* him to do.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

More pure, unadulterated BS. Monarch wasn't "forced to lie by Larry Williams" nor did I EVER say he was. Monarch made that decision. That he MAY have (rightly or wrongly) thought he was toast if he owned up doesn't excuse the lie or mean he was forced into it.

Just an additional thought:

I know the NCAA rulebook is too long, and there are a million rules, but the rule he broke is a pretty basic one, which makes this situation even weirder.

Monarch had to know he was breaking the rules, so he either didn't care, or didn't think he would get caught, right? The "coverup" is worse, but what he did (while not major) was really careless at best.

A coach wouldn't get fired for it, but if I'm running the show, it gives me some concern that the most basic rules of recruiting aren't being followed.

[ATWizJr]

What has Larry Williams done and accomplished at MU that makes you think he's immune to the criticism?  What skins on the wall does he have?  Can you find another example of an AD 90 days on the job, who to the local paper, pretty much says he's going to help his coach become better, that his coach ties his tie too tight, and will either have his head explode or will irrevocably offend somebody - all said about a guy who has 3.5 years in, which had culminated in 3 NCAA births, 1 Sweet 16 and another that followed a month later.  Buzz has earned the benefit of the doubt.  Larry simply has created doubt.

I look forward to your reply.

Great point. Administrators like Williams are a dime a dozen.  Coaches like Williams are not.

[GGGG]

Just an additional thought:

I know the NCAA rulebook is too long, and there are a million rules, but the rule he broke is a pretty basic one, which makes this situation even weirder.

Monarch had to know he was breaking the rules, so he either didn't care, or didn't think he would get caught, right? The "coverup" is worse, but what he did (while not major) was really careless at best.

A coach wouldn't get fired for it, but if I'm running the show, it gives me some concern that the most basic rules of recruiting aren't being followed.

The motivations for Monarch lying are one of the following...

1. There is a "zero tolerance policy" so he was screwed anyway

2. He thought it would work, but didn't realize they had hard evidence against him (which they did by the way.)

3. He thought he was a "made man," and Buzz would win a power struggle if it came to that

[Knight Commission]

BS. KnightCommission has absolutely called for his head.

And then there's the other deep thinkers who believe Buzz should be laying prostrate at LW's feet thanking him for saving his job in spite of all the terrible offenses he's committed (that would be primarily you). I guess you're not technically calling for his head - seems you think one foot and a few fingers will do - for now.

For the record, I dont think we should fire him, I just want him to leave after this season. I could change my mind though.

[MerrittsMustache]

The motivations for Monarch lying are one of the following...

1. There is a "zero tolerance policy" so he was screwed anyway

2. He thought it would work, but didn't realize they had hard evidence against him (which they did by the way.)

3. He thought he was a "made man," and Buzz would win a power struggle if it came to that

My guess is that it was some combination of #1 and #2. I'm not so sure that there's a "zero tolerance policy" but it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to keep it quiet because he knew that the new administration was cracking down more than the previous regime. Then he lied about it as a CYA move and there was no going back.

[Hards Alumni]

For the record, I dont think we should fire him, I just want him to leave after this season. I could change my mind though.

For the record, that is pretty stupid.

You don't ask a coach that has built a top 15 team to leave over this off season.

If you really want him to leave and do not want a coach 'like him' then I hope you enjoy getting bounced in the first round every year.

There is no road to the top of CBB that does not involve a significant amount of bumps.

[cheebs09]

I would be worried about not being good enough to be bounced in the first round. If Buzz would leave, I'm very worried about how the next hiring will go. Granted I was worried after losing Crean too.

[MerrittsMustache]

I would be worried about not being good enough to be bounced in the first round. If Buzz would leave, I'm very worried about how the next hiring will go. Granted I was worried after losing Crean too.

Probably someone along the lines of Ed "Straight Arrow" Genero.